you can play ali from Cairo if you want to have some fun:tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice_Box
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you can play ali from Cairo if you want to have some fun:tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice_Box
Thought about him before, the issue is he does nothing to life lost. So Bump in the night for example would end you... or Deathrite.
Working on my deck list for the weekend.
Quick Question some of the Match-up analysis in the start of this thread seems a little outdated. Metamorph tricks, no mention of Death and Taxes.
Is there any possibility of this seeing an update this week?
Any suggestions for Death and Taxes. I feel the match-up is OK, but in my play testing, I lost after a longer games, (Seems like I was doing something wrong or ignoring something I shouldn't have been)
DnT is winnable, and I would prefer to be behind Painter in the long game.
Here's a recap of my experience facing the deck.
They have dorks for days. Many of them are super annoying, like Aven Mindscensor, True Believer, Phyrexian Revoker. All of them get wiped out by a sweeper; Pyroclasm, Ratchet Bomb (gets around Mom), Sudden Demise (doesn't hit Revoker). Their only path to victory is through combat damage, so in sideboard games you need to have four Ensnaring Bridge on board.
Believe it or not, Blood Moon is still decent, as it locks up their 12 utility lands, eight of which lock up your own lands (Wasteland and Rishadan Port). I would side out Magus, though, as he'll eat a Swords if you were looking to stick a Moon effect and have it last. Revokers are also quite good, but only play out one or two on their most manageable threats like Mom or Vial, let them have Top, though. You have your own to dig with. Here's how you set up for a winning scenario pretty much all the time:
Let them go on the beatdown path. This line of play forces you to lose some life, which can be dangerous, but it also forces them to commit heavily to the board. That's when you drop an Ensnaring Bridge and/or sweep the board clean. If you can sit behind a Bridge, do it, and if you draw multiples, cast them. Nothing worse than them removing your lone bridge and swinging for the win, especially when you had things under control. It's better value to hold onto your Revokers/Recruiters/guys until after you cast a bridge or sweeper. Lay down fresh Revokers on their threats, and by this time you should have a couple blasts in hand if not the combo itself. Try to get it all out and over in one turn, as the window for them to draw and cast Swords to Plowshares is quite high. Goblin Welder is sweeter than normal in this matchup, as it can remove a Revoker on Grindstone if need be.
Basically, you're the control in this matchup. Don't try to combo off on turn two unless you have the nut draw with a Blast as backup for their inevitable StP. Play for the long game, draw out their hand, shut off their card advantage (Mangara, Mom, etc) and sit behind your lock pieces (Moon/Bridge). Stay alive until you can mill them out. I'd say the biggest key to the matchup is knowing the most common 75's, so no "tech" or random creatures will surprise you and throw off your game plan. In the end, Painter can win in one turn, DnT needs several. Painter can infinitely slow down that clock via its lock pieces and access to removal. I'd say if you can't live play test, dig up a few videos from Eternal Weekend and BoM recently and watch DnT matchs. See how they play things out. Watch the deck in action, so come show time you won't be reactive, but more proactive.
Jandax has a good description for D+T.
I'll get around to posting some more matchup primers in the next day or two. Are there any others anyone wants?
Not sure if its been covered, but maybe a section VS. Elves?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kap'n Cook
Roll over and bite the pillow...
Superserial, Elves is nigh winnable. There's a not-so-good elves player in my area that I ALWAYS lose too, it's becoming a joke now. Over the last few month's we've all been Top X'ing and he's always been my one, if not only loss. I do my damnedest to keep him from durdling along but it's just not happening. Nowadays they are running NoPro, which means your PS/Stone combo is blanked because they pretty much run an Emrakul as well. Sweepers help, bridges help, but their dorks are more plentiful than yours. Your best shot is probably to revoker their shit like Heritage Drood, Symbiote, Blast thier GSZ's, Blast their artifact removal, and then Jaya them to death. That's like a 10 card combo, and that's why this matchup licks balls.
If ur on the play u have to go for t1 moon. Otherwise it's combo out before they do or lose..
I'm testing 3 Ensnaring Bridge again in my latest list, where I previously had 3 LB. It's looking really good and I like the free wins it gives. Also there's a pretty good synergy with my MD as I'm more combo orientated(Koth,welder).
Well if you can nut draw them then you have a chance. But the guy to whom I was referring plays mono G elves, 4th ed. forests and all...
Against the decks that run only one or two basics, the odds go up a bit I'd say, because Moons aren't a dead card.
Rancor unless you're metagaming, I think three MD bridges puts you more into the prison shell and are shying away from combo. Although I haven't tested anything like that out, that's just a first impression.
Elves is in the front section already. I'll reiterate though. Blood moon is only game ending turn 1 on the play. Any later than that and it delays them a turn or two max. If they run 2 or more colors emrakul shouldn't be there. Mono g emrakul elves is really hard and you basically have to 3 card combo them or hope they draw emrakul since you can't kill everything they have.
But back to normal builds:
Blast gsz at x=3,8 and glimpse and NO. that should buy you another couple turns. I usually try to burn out any elf they play t1 that produces additional mana because that should buy you another turn as well. Bridge is good unless they get a glimpse chain then you just die. Usually If you're on the draw and you have a turn 3 kill with no disruption it'll be too slow.
Alright I'm 99% sure this is the list I'm taking to GP DC.
4 Grindstone
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Blood Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
1 Goblin Welder
1 Spellskite
2 Magus of the Moon
4 Painter's Servant
4 Imperial Recruiter
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Pyroblast
3 Lightning Bolt
9 Mountain
1 Arid Mesa
1 Bloodstained Mire
2 Scalding Tarn
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
Sideboard
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Manic Vandal
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Pyroblast
2 Pyroclasm
1 Koth of the Hammer
Comments welcome.
I decided I wanted to up my land count from 20 to 21 because I am more comfortable that way. If I wasn't running that extra land I would likely run a third MD revoker.
Also I decided I can live with access to 7 Blast effects, instead of 8. It might not be the right call, but I think I can live with it.
I cut the 8th to fit in two Pyroblast and 1 Koth.
I wanted the Koth as a secondary win condition for Sneak and Show, so I'm not all in on one Jaya Ballard. I guess this could be a second Jaya. (What other match-ups is Koth good for?)
Pyroblast because I'm expecting Death and Taxes to be on the rise and as a good control card.
Looks good man. Koth obviously comes in against control decks. But also against most decks you bring in the bridges for so you have a wincon under the bridge too.
I made one last tweak to my list as well if anyone cares. I finally dropped the last faithless looting after switching to enlightened tutor. Not especially happy since I really do like faithless in Painter, I just think white splash helps a ton more. The 2nd bridge is moving to the main to steal a ton of wins. In that last sideboard slot is the 7th blast I've been off and on about.
Also, I've been on a huge testing kick that is over with now. I played a ton of games in preparation for the gp and here are the results:
12 post 2 1
affinity 1 0
ant 3 1
bant 2 0
belcher 2 1
bg depths 0 2
bug 2 0
burg 2 0
burn 4 1
death and taxes 4 2
deathblade 1 0
dredge 3 0
elves 4 3
enchantress 2 3
epic storm 0 1
esper control 2 0
food chain 0 1
goblins 1 0
grixis delver 2 1
hypergenesis 0 1
infect 2 0
jund 4 1
junk 3 0
manaless dredge 1 0
maverick 0 1
merfolk 1 1
miracles 9 5
mud 2 0
pox 3 0
reanimator 3 1
rogue hermit 1 2
rug 7 3
shardless bug 4 1
slivers 3 0
sneak and show 6 5
stasis 1 0
stoneblade 0 1
tin fins 3 2
ur delver 1 0
omni 1 2
ur painter 2 1
ur standstill 2 1
uw thopter 1 0
uwr delver 5 0
waterfalls 3 1
105 46
It won't let me edit the rows to make all the numbers all nice so this will have to do. I think this is fairly representative of how most matchups are for Painter in general. Burn obviously is an outlier, and of course there are a few punts here and there.
How did you go 0-2 on BG Depths? Was Blood Moon not good enough? What am I missing?
Had an Epiphany regarding the mono G Elves matchup.
Jaya's third ability.
They're generally going to build up into a Craterhoof for the win, so you have a two card combo that'll help waste the entire start of their game.
Ensnaring Bridge has to come down as early as possible, and you have to get a Jaya online before their combo turn. Let them waste time destroying the bridge, and just pop Jaya for 6 damage with the cratterhoof trigger on the stack. Wipes thier board, does some damage. They aren't exactly drawing live, as they'd have used up their Symbiotes and other activations and glimpses to combo out that turn. You, on the other hand, can set up a board with another bridge and get some dork beats on, or IR for another Jaya and just nug them to death. The matchup is a long shot to begin with, at least this is a letgitimate way to win. Thoughts?
The depths player was running his own brew with a little reanimation package. But you can't really beat petal-ritual-depths/hexmage-spoils of the vault for the other piece turn one. That happened twice out of four game losses and the other two still involved a lot of pinpoint discard. Kind of a funky little combo brew.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jandax
For current version of elves, what do you side out in g2 and g3? I have not done serious test against elves, I think I should take out moon when I am on the draw, but not sure if I should bring it back if I am on the play.
I forgo the Grindstone kill. They either have Emrakul, or Progenitus in their 75, so it's sort of pointless. Swap your four grindstones for four Ensnaring Bridge, and shave burn/blast spell or two for sweepers. I'm currently running Pyroclasm, but if I can get my hands on some Sudden Demise I'd run that instead. I'd say you want at least three sweepers and four bridges going into game two and three. What you side out depends on the matchup, against the mono G version all your moons and grindstones come out. Magus can stay in because he still blocks/beats/deals wtih Cradle. Against the Gbw version, moons are still good. I'd mull a hand without a turn one Moon or at least one sweeper. As stated, your best bet in this matchup is to lock up the game with Ensnaring Bridge, counter any GSZ for x=3 or more, and ride Jaya to a victory. Koth works here too because he works under Bridge if you ultimate him the game is pretty much over.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoblinZ
So, who got to day 2?
i audible to miracles at the last minute and did crappy. Based on the amount of TNN and elves I saw we need Bridges main. Also magus may move down to 1 in the main. Updated testing list is going to look like the following:
9 mountain
4 City of traitors
4 ancient tomb
4 scalding tarn
4 painter
4 imperial recruiter
4 grindstone
1 Spellskitte
1 jaya
1 magus of the moon
4 simian spirt guide
4 blood moon
3 top
4 pyroblast
1 reb
3 magma jet
3 ensnaring bridge
2 koth of the hammer
board:
1 ensnaring bridge
2 rachetbomb
4 thorn of ameythest
1 manic vandal
3 reb
1 phyrexian revoker
3 pyroclasm
lol, sorry but that's what you get for not sticking to your guns.
And maybe this list looks a little pre-sideboarded. Or in any case good for a tournament that has already started. I definitely don't think Koth MD is good if you're worried about TNN/Elves. Just sayin'