Re: [Deck] MonoU OmniTell
that's my point! this is a deck that wants to save his counters just for counterwars and hand disruptions.
In this scenario, imho, Swan Song > Pact of Negation, just all day and all night.
1 PoN in SB is fine while comboing off or, as you said, as an EOT CW before going off.
I can't see a scenario where PoN>SS apart the turn you're going off.. or, at least, this deck needs more counters.
-1 PoN
-1 something
+2 SS
also, I'd test more Intuition. Alongside with CW, they are our 3rd card in the combo so... why not play more?
4 Show and Tell
4 Omniscience
4 Enter the Infinite
4 Cunning Wish
3 Intuition
4 Force of Will
3 Swan Song
1 Twincast
3 Dream Halls
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Gitaxian Probe
4 Cities
6 Fetches
10 Lands
SB
usual but with at least
1 Firemind's Foresight
1 Intuition
1 PoN
1 Release the Ants
1 Rushing River
1 Trickbind
1 Research/Developement
1 Emrakul
1 Laboratory Maniac
Re: [Deck] MonoU OmniTell
I find running Pacts a small opportunity cost, given how much they help improve your Delver matchup. If you don't plan on facing at least one Delver based deck in whatever tournament you are attending, I can see an argument for cutting them in favour of Swang Song/Flusterstorm/Spell Pierce.
Re: [Deck] MonoU OmniTell
Quote:
Originally Posted by
adamt
for the Emrakul question a page or so back.. wish => noxious revival a card from your opp gy usually deals with the chance of emrakul being on top.
...
You guys realize that each time you Clash, each player gets to put the revealed card on the bottom of their library?
Re: [Deck] MonoU OmniTell
I like my list (:D sorry) a lot, it's consistent and reliable. But not fast.
I always find myself wanting more mana. May be more Sol Lands and Lotus Petal too..? it's rare to win before turn 4.
But it's rather consistent when we go off.
Re: [Deck] MonoU OmniTell
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Poron
I always find myself wanting more mana. May be more Sol Lands and Lotus Petal too..? it's rare to win before turn 4.
But it's rather consistent when we go off.
The fastest mana base I have been able to have the deck play consistently with is: 5 sol land, 3 lotus petal, 6 fetch, 7 islands (21 mana sources). This mana base makes T1 wins possible, T2 wins relatively common. With this mana base I found that the 4rth DH and 4 CW helped with consistent fast kills, the biggest trade off was you had to cut PoN and flusterstorm, and go off unprotected more often. This mana base does let you pay for slaughter pact, occasionally hard cast leyline, and recast S&T if they blow up your enchantment with Enter on the stack. Regardless of how you build your mana base though, this will never be a regular T1 deck because of the need for 3 cards to combo. To make the deck go off on T1 more often you really need to do the Ur Omni-Griselbrand thing, and I am not a huge fan of that build. As such, I have recently switched away from the faster mana, instead going with 4 sol, 6 fetch, 9 island, 1 karakas. Karakas can be awkward (caused some mulligans) but also buys wins against thalia and reanimator. It is a trade off I am happy with. Reanimator legends and Thalia can single handily win, so this is a nice out to have access to in your deck.
On the swan song debate, I would run flusterstorms before swan songs. I run a pretty standard 4 FoW, 1 PoN, 1 flusterstorm main. Flusterstorm is frequently the best of them at actually stopping an opponent or forcing through a win, so going to 2 or 3 of those would be where I would go before adding any swan songs. If your sneak and show opponent is hard casting sneak attack, they are not playing a particularly fast game and you have time to interact. There are not at ton of other enchantments I worry about and the instances where flusterstorm is paid for are lower (in my experience) than when they have another counter (which turns off SS).
The one other mana base change I have flirted with is running 7 fetch and 1 volcanic to enable 2x pyroclasm out of the board (wish for sudden spoiling and the like are less strong since you need omniscience in play already in order to cast them, making slaughter pact normally a better option). Note, that if you do this, I would max out on City of Traitors before playing any Ancient Tombs. This package is very strong if D&T, shardless, elves and Jund are common (the first three are likely going to be popular in DC, which in turn means Jund will perform well against the field). It is also fine against tempo (just try not to play the volcanic before you need it). The big problem with this is clearly that you have to trim your wish board slightly.
That's my 2 cents. Hope to see some of this deck popping up in DC.
Edit: While I don't think anyone will be confused by what I said above, do note that pyroclasm is a sorcery so not a cunning wish target (and you really should not splash in burning wish). Running this means you have fewer wish targets in game 1. Where it helps is game 2 & 3 when the number of hate bears is maxed out, or the opponent is trying to maintain pressure while countering your "important" combo pieces. Pyroclasm gives you play there. It is also cover against dredge (a terrible matchup as far as I can tell) when they are on the beat down plan or trying to set up dread return and against empty the warrens when playing against storm or belcher. Against storm, depending on how many leylines and non-pact counters are in your board, it may not be reasonable to side in a copy. For the record, I don't think you should side it in for the storm matchup, but you have the option. I like it more against belcher.
Edit 2: Toxic Deluge off of one underground sea would serve a similar purpose to pyroclasm, and get around mother of runes protection, True-name Nemesis, and larger creatures. Not clear to me that it is worth the extra mana in the casting cost and the life loss to have have that extra layer of protection.
Re: [Deck] MonoU OmniTell
Hi all,
Looking for better solutions to hate bears like Thalia. So far, Teferi's realm has been suggested. Pyroclasm or toxic deluge off a splash has been suggested, but I'm not sure splashing is a good idea. Of course Slaughter Pact works fine. I do like the suggestion of Karakas, but how do you find your one-of?
Has anyone tested Helm of Awakening yet? It just might work vs Thalia. I'm testing it now, want to know if other people have tried. Not looking for theory or guesses, just results! Of course it doesn't work vs. other hate bears, but Thalia seems to be the most commonly played one.
Thanks all.
Re: [Deck] MonoU OmniTell
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lejay
Play Emrakul like everyone else.
I do play Emrakul in my list. Clearly, it's not sufficient. I need more against Thalia.
Re: [Deck] MonoU OmniTell
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Informer
I do like the suggestion of Karakas, but how do you find your one-of?
I like the Karakas as a one of in the 20 land (5 sol, 6 fetch, 1 karakas, 8 island), no petal, no splash manabase but it is very close. If you expect a lot of Thalia and Reanimator, I think it is worth it, but in the dark it is not.
The good: It has allowed me to shut down the Young Pyromancer Reanimator deck that was trying to kill via Elesh norn which would have demolished me otherwise and has bought me the turns I needed against an attacking Clique and allowed me a non-wish game 1 win through Thalia. It also gave me live draws (which I did not hit) against a reanimated Iona on Blue on T2 with counter backup. I have not drawn it in the 3 matches against Sneak and show matches I have played with this build. In prinicple though, it would be good against S&T and Through the breach. I have run about 40 matches (~100 games) with this configuration, so three game wins from it is not a ton against a general field.
The bad: On a couple of occasions it has prevented me from playing an additional cantrip during a turn. It has also caused me to mulligan 3-4 times based on hands that did not contain blue but did contain Karakas and I have had it be wastelanded which slowed my eventual kill by a few turns. Going down to 4 sol lands would reduce these problems somewhat, decide for yourself if the tradeoffs are worth it. You don't auto-lose when you mulligan with this deck, but I think that shows that the plus and minus of the card are relatively close.
Summary: Clearly I am still operating in the realm of small number statistics, so consider the above mostly anecdotal. Clearly it is a bad card (much worse than island) in your deck in matchups where your opponent doesn't run relevant legends (be real, never looping your own Emrakul). So I guess I have to reiterate my first point: Run it if you expect a lot of Thalia and legendary monsters, don't run it in the dark.
Re: [Deck] MonoU OmniTell
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Poron
1 Twincast
Have you manage to cast it? With SnT or counterspells it looks great! But the UU aren't too much without the Omniscience? What is your experience?
Re: [Deck] MonoU OmniTell
Quote:
Originally Posted by
limbo
I like the Karakas as a one of in the 20 land (5 sol, 6 fetch, 1 karakas, 8 island), no petal, no splash manabase but it is very close. If you expect a lot of Thalia and Reanimator, I think it is worth it, but in the dark it is not.
The good: It has allowed me to shut down the Young Pyromancer Reanimator deck that was trying to kill via Elesh norn which would have demolished me otherwise and has bought me the turns I needed against an attacking Clique and allowed me a non-wish game 1 win through Thalia. It also gave me live draws (which I did not hit) against a reanimated Iona on Blue on T2 with counter backup. I have not drawn it in the 3 matches against Sneak and show matches I have played with this build. In prinicple though, it would be good against S&T and Through the breach. I have run about 40 matches (~100 games) with this configuration, so three game wins from it is not a ton against a general field.
The bad: On a couple of occasions it has prevented me from playing an additional cantrip during a turn. It has also caused me to mulligan 3-4 times based on hands that did not contain blue but did contain Karakas and I have had it be wastelanded which slowed my eventual kill by a few turns. Going down to 4 sol lands would reduce these problems somewhat, decide for yourself if the tradeoffs are worth it. You don't auto-lose when you mulligan with this deck, but I think that shows that the plus and minus of the card are relatively close.
Summary: Clearly I am still operating in the realm of small number statistics, so consider the above mostly anecdotal. Clearly it is a bad card (much worse than island) in your deck in matchups where your opponent doesn't run relevant legends (be real, never looping your own Emrakul). So I guess I have to reiterate my first point: Run it if you expect a lot of Thalia and legendary monsters, don't run it in the dark.
Thank you for the advice. I do expect a lot of Thalias, Griselbrands, and Other legends (like Bartel Runeax, jk), so I'll consider it. Based on the above evidence, sounds like it would be good in the SB; unfortunately that means cutting something else, but it may still be worth it, as Reanimator and Thalia decks need some SB help.
Re: [Deck] MonoU OmniTell
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Informer
Thank you for the advice. I do expect a lot of Thalias, Griselbrands, and Other legends (like Bartel Runeax, jk), so I'll consider it. Based on the above evidence, sounds like it would be good in the SB; unfortunately that means cutting something else, but it may still be worth it, as Reanimator and Thalia decks need some SB help.
The other legend to keep an eye out for is Ruric Thar, the Unbowed. Elves has started to main deck one as a way to improve their combo matchups. Karakas is the best answer to that by a wide margin, as any other solution once he hits play will almost certainly cost you 12 life.
Re: [Deck] MonoU OmniTell
in the Elves matchup you have to counter GSZ and NO. They simply can't resolve.
Re: [Deck] MonoU OmniTell
Just played this deck to a finals prize split in the Sunday Legacy Series tournament at GP DC.
Here was the list that I ran, which I would recommend, and would not change a card for the current metagame:
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Brainstorm
3 Cunning Wish
3 Dream Halls
4 Enter the Infinite
4 Force of Will
4 Omniscience
3 Ponder
4 Preordain
4 Show and Tell
1 Ancient Tomb
10 Island
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Gitaxian Probe
1 Intuition
1 Pact of Negation
3 City of Traitors
1 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Daze
SB: 1 Eladamri's Call
SB: 1 Intuition
SB: 3 Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 1 Release the Ants
SB: 1 Trickbind
SB: 2 Defense Grid
SB: 1 Rushing River
SB: 2 Seal of Removal
SB: 1 Noxious Revival
SB: 1 Slaughter Pact
SB: 1 Flusterstorm
I was happy with both the main deck and the sideboard, and wouldn't change a thing. Some comments on my selections:
Maindeck 1 Leyline of Sanctity. Lejay's build has it as a suggestion, and I opted to go for that because it is more useful arguably than any other sideboard card which could be moved to the main. I got a free game win with it game 1 against Storm. He was surprised but scooped to it since he had no maindeck outs.
1 Pact of Negation, 1 Daze mainboard: Pact of Negation is not useful at stopping discard, but is useful when comboing, so I wanted something to maybe draw into when Brainstorming the turn before going off. Daze is useful at stopping discard, Liliana, whatever basically, or to help you combo off. Would want 2 of them to increase the chances of drawing them early, but a) there's no room, and b) it can be a weak card in the long game in some matchups.
1 Flusterstorm sideboard: With the maindeck as is, it makes most sense to have Flusterstorm in the SB. Pact of Negation can still be sided out if you want a free counterspell in the sideboard to wish for in games 2-3. Game 1, you wait until you have lands to play it. Yes, it's not as good as Pact of Negation side, but I want access to at least one Flusterstorm in the 75.
2 Seal of Removal: They were only used once today, but came in handy at the GP as well (went 6-3 and missed day 2). Useful for bouncing everything, from hatebears to Delvers to Tarmogoyfs (used it today for that purpose to stay high on life), to your own Emrakul if necessary. And they are blue.
0 Sapphire Charm: No room in sideboard. Slaughter Pact does similar function and has additional utility potentially against Iona by not being blue (although if they have Iona coming into play you're probably not in great shape).
Thanks to those on the forums, especially Lejay and the other frequent posters and deck designers, for such excellent advice and primer on the deck.