I honestly think is time to bring back survival. Deathrite Shaman, Rest in Peace keeps the card in check. And now this crazy TNN non-sense...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilkin
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I honestly think is time to bring back survival. Deathrite Shaman, Rest in Peace keeps the card in check. And now this crazy TNN non-sense...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilkin
So the problem is that it's more 'uninteractive' garbage if they try to do this, right? TNN goes into Blue decks; they tend to ham-fist their approach to "anti-Blue" technology by just tossing "can't be countered" on the spell/ability. I mean that's the fundamental concern right now -- the current gamut of answers are already so weird and not necessarily very applicable to the rest of Legacy, so they are easy to spot and easy for the TNN player to just counter because everything else is a big blank. So any kind of perfect answer is probably going to have to overcompensate in the opposite direction. And it will either be a narrow "oh, no shit?" sideboard card, or it will hit too many things at once and just be another derpy uninteractive this-just-resolves-so-deal spell.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilkin
Abrupt Damnation GBB
-THIS- can't be countered.
Each player sacrifices all Blue creatures they control. Each player loses 1 life for each creature they sacrificed in this way.
"I hate the fact that it's cool to be Blue these days." - Danny Vinyard
I mean ultimately that is the problem -- maybe TNN isn't as bad as the escalation it precipitates. Indestructible and hexproof already limit people's options in terms of dealing with permanents, and for a while it was okay, because indestructible and "troll-shroud" cost too damn much to matter. Now the beats are efficient and indestructible/hexproof is practically an afterthought on White/Green creatures, uncounterability is a potent ally in BG decks, and now apparently "protection from the game" is a Blue thing… it just doesn't scale very well.
You would have to divide Legacy into two formats. One format for people who want to play the old cards, but don't want a handful of the powerful cards to be legal. Another format for people who want to be able to Show and Tell into Grizzly, Mental Misstep, Survival, etc. There's nothing wrong with either approach, but you just can't please both groups.Quote:
Originally Posted by warai
They have that - it is called Vintage.Quote:
Originally Posted by DLifshitz
"Diversity as it relates to the rest of the field"Quote:
Originally Posted by MGB
What exactly do you mean by that? Where are your numbers showing that diversity of decks in the field have significantly declined since TNN has been printed.
Your assertion that it is an auto-win button vs any other aggro non-TNN deck is also ridiculous. It's a good thing all those Death & Taxes (or RUG, or Team America, etc) players that did well at BoM, Legacy Champs (I mean really - Ari Lax should've gotten the message that TNN is a total auto-win button against his deck!), and GP DC were too stupid to figure out that they can't ever win against a TNN...
Second, how is using the largest and most recent tournament with TNN somehow skewing against it's prevalence? If it would actually as saturated as you claim, TNN would be all over the place, which the numbers actually show it was not.
"Non-interactive" is just a nebulous term people use for "now I have to play different cards!" Do you know what's also non-interactive? Swords to Plowsharing your creature. Countering your spell. Wastelanding your land. Protecting my creature with Mother of Runes. Taxing your spells with Thalia. Attacking you to death with a Tarmogoyf. Oh look, I did something that kept you from interacting with me! Ban it all!
I don't expect to see anything else soon. Keep in mind that a lot of the most commonly cited answers to this guy are fairly recent printings: Deluge, Golgari Charm, Supreme Verdict, Celestial Flare, Elesh Norn. Even Zealous Persecution isn't that old.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilkin
Actually, these are all ways of interacting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Esper3k
One of the problems with True-Name Nemesis is that there aren't enough ways to interact with it once it resolves. The list of playable answers that aren't completely dead in other matchups is just pathetic, and every TNN deck also runs Force of Will, so even if you draw your narrow answer, it won't necessarily get TNN off the board. Historically, threats have always been more powerful than answers, and this is no exception. It obviously makes more sense to play TNN yourself rather than litter your deck with narrow answers to it.
Edit: Richard Cheese, Elesh Norn doesn't count. Combo decks by and large don't care about TNN.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DLifshitz
It's time for Vintage 2.0, I guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teluin
Keep old Vintage Format for the totally crazy guys.
Make a Vintage2 Format for the crazy guys that like Mental Misstep, TNN, Goyf, Top, Griselbrand, Emrakul and all that broken stuff.
Make a new Legacy Format for the normal guys that like to play good old duals and a few other old cards but not the broken stuff.
And also, have Modern and Standard for the children. :D
They would still complain about duals and fetches.
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Why not go to the Gatherer page and downrate the card?
Click me!
Wizards should know how unfun this card is.
It makes death blade. The deck is alive and well with it, whereas before when it was dead. I love it and I don't really care that a lot of people think it's less than fun. People said some very similar things about CB back in the day.
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Recent history I suppose. But I agree to an extent.Quote:
Originally Posted by ESG
I just hate seeing someone drop a True Name and watch the opponent just take 3 every turn while they look for an answer that they don't have for it. It just isn't a fun card to watch or play against. It also Isn't a card I would play so I dont know how that feels. I suppose this might actually mean that we start to see more Supreme Verdicts. That seems interesting I suppose.
That isn't true at all. Even from the start of magic we had Swords to Plowshares and Lightning Bolt. Those answers are still the most powerful ones we have. Only recently have creatures become so strong/invulnerable that answers need to become narrow.Quote:
Originally Posted by ESG
Answers used to be far more "powerful" than threats.
You should wrote:
Threads are most time an issue to ban instead of answers :)
By "threats" I didn't mean creatures specifically. Back in the era you're describing, Necropotence was a threat. You were probably winning more games playing Necro than playing anti-Necro.Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderwaterGuy
Wow, I didn't know you can officially rate the cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
Great, there are a lot of cards to downrate and also some that receive a good rating from me. :D
The card is very good. It's not bannable, and even the players I play against who aren't very experienced in competitive play and use less than tier 1/1.5 decks find ways to deal with TNN and win. Just got mine tossed with an IoK and then immediately dealt with via Surgical Extraction after seeing I was tapped out and only had a Pierce in hand. My other buddy who plays MUD just Forgemastered into Steel Hellkite and paid 3: Simple. Many decks have outs that aren't...optimal, but will do the trick. Other blue decks have the option to run TNN, at least he's not hugely splashable.
Some decks will have a harder time than others, but for the most part, people hate TNN so much it has a target on it's head the second they find out about it, and it becomes the goal of the game. Winning becomes secondary to getting rid of the Rediculous Rogue.
I think it ups the ante in Legacy. It's forcing the metagame to go next-level. I don't think that's bad, I think it's pushing the limits of the format. This isn't a win-now card, it's inevitability embodied. It's epic with Delver. Nothing like Turn one Delver into a turn 3 Nemesis. So silly. I do see how you guys think it's non-interactive, but I think it just requires new/certain ways of interaction, aka not the Battlefield; stack, hand, library.
Sadistic Sacrament is an option that is well rounded for some lists. Also, Phyrexian Metamorph is able to completely copy it including the "As this comes into play" ability, and ANY fair deck can use that based on it's mana cost. Don't complain, just get your own! Seriously, there are ways of dealing with this.
-ABC
Just watched a super fun and exciting mirror of True Name. #lotsofinteractivity
Link? Or are you just being sarcastic? Can't tell...
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I guess he's refering to this: http://www.starcitygames.com/events/...rovidence.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee
There was a URW Delver mirror a few minutes ago on camera.