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Resolved Delvers which fly over your creatures, Wastelands, self-damage caused by Tomb, DRS activations (Grixis & BUG) or PoP (UR), other problematic creatures (YP, Gurmag, Goyf).Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Miagi
Still haven't found a recipe that works against them well enough with the current build.
I took Barook's 60 and switched 1 Matter Reshaper to 1 Phyrexian Metamorph, and Brushlands to Corrupted Crossroads, with this 15 at my LGS FNM:
1 Karakas
1 Eldrazi Displacer
1 Warping Wail
1 Dismember
3 Trinisphere
4 Leyline of the Void
2 All is Dust
2 World Breaker
I don't remember how I sideboarded exactly, but I took out whatever didn't matter for the MU and SB accordingly.
Round 1 - Reanimator
Game 1: On draw. He gets a Griselbrand early and I go down in life fast through back and forths of Reality Smasher and Jitte. He seals the deal when he Exhumes an Elesh Norn. (0-1)
Game 2: Chalice on 1 and 2, then a beater, and we're off to game 3. (1-1)
Game 3: Leyline comes in then enough pressure. He doesn't find his Echoing Truth and I take game 3. (2-1)
1-0
Props: Chalice of the Void, Leyline of the Void
Flops: Warping Wail needing to keep mana up for counter vs adding beats to the table early game
Round 2 - 12-Post
Game 1: On draw. I get early beats in with Chalice of the Void at 1, he keeps on gaining life through Post lands, through a Primeval Titan as well. I attack with a bunch of creatures, he blocks with the Titan and is surprised by Dismember. He would win next turn as he can cast Ulamog that I saw through Thought-Knot (that took a Show and Tell early on), but casts Ugin and realize his mistake right after. (3-1)
Game 2: I beat him down early with two Mimics, but he delays with Platinum Emperion. I get World Breaker through Eye tutor, but he has backup Moment's Peace. This was fine since a forced Moment's Peace means he couldn't tutor with his Eye. After two Fogs, he digs for Glacial Chasm, I tutor another World Breaker and win after. (4-1)
2-0
Props: Opponent play mistake, Thought-Knot Seer, World Breaker
Flops: Not having Wastelands to control this game
Round 3 - Grixis Control
Game 1: On draw, he mulls to 6 and Probe-Therapy both my Chalices away. I'm whittled down in cards still even after a couple turns, but he only has Pyromancer as his threat without tokens. It catches a Dismember and a Thought-Knot stays long enough to win the game. (5-1)
Game 2: He Probe-Therapy me again and take Thought-Knot. I get a 4/4 Endless One turn 2, he gets a Blood Moon in turn 3, getting my Reality Smasher and Warping Wail stuck in hand. I play Jitte and Petal, equip and attack. He doesn't have an answer in his turn and had to dig using Painful Truths. He doesn't get anything and I win with an 8/8 Endless One from Jitte's double pump. 20 damage came from Endless One with Jitte (12), Fetches (3). Painful Truths (3), and Probe (2). (6-1)
3-0
I ask him where his Wastelands were since I didn't see any (would have screwed me up both games). He only had 1 in the deck. I guess it helps that people are waiting for EMA for Wastelands.
Props: Winning even after Mooned, Thought-Knot Seer, Endless One`s versatiliy, Umezawa`s Jitte, opponent not having Wastelands
Flops: I had a Phyrexian Metamorph that was lackluster game 1.
Round 4 - Lands
Game 1: On draw. I would have Chalice on 1 turn 1, but decided to sandbag it for Chalice at 2 next turn. He has Waste-lock from turn 1, through Mox, Exploration and Gamble. I probably could have broken the lock by Wailing a Life from the Loam, then slapping the Chalice at 2. But would still be a hard game, so I decided to scoop and not fully revealing what I was playing. (6-2)
Game 2: On play. Leyline of the Void in the opening hand was a snap keep. He swears against that card. He starts playing land and I keep on beating him up. He was forced to tutor Maze of Ith or die. On the turn he can combo off he passes. I play the Karakas I was holding for the combo. He was forced to Rotate into a Wasteland and not be able to combo off end of my turn. He can combo off again on his turn as he has enough mana, but even with Marit Lage as a blocker, I had lethal. (7-2)
Game 3: On draw, I mull to six after seeing an uneventful hand. I see Leyline of the Void again and keep. He gets surprised again. I win this game fast through Thought-Knot and Reality Smasher beats as he doesn't have the combo (scary if he did as I didn't have karakas or Displacer) and has two Abrupt Decay stuck in his hand. (8-2)
4-0
Props: Leyline of the Void, World Breaker for stopping the combo game 2, Karakas
Flops: Play mistake game 1
Mono C Eldrazi just took down Bazaar of Moxen Annecy:
Decklist
Edit:
I playtested a bit with SwampRitualNegator (who played Grixis Delver) on MTGO to figure something out regarding the particular weakness of the current build vs Delver. No real conclusions could be drawn yet, but in his opinion, I should rather keep the Mimics in and try to simply overrun them asap (similiar to Shardless BUG - and at least in that match-up, that plan works like a charm). Bringing back some copies of Thorn might be a good idea as well. Dismember is probably bad due to the high life cost.
So, basically
-2 Dismember
-2 Warping Wail
+2 Thorn of Amethyst
+2 something
Wasteland Stranger might fit the slot of "something" pretty well since it's another creature to further the overrun plan while it can also act as potential removal. I'm starting at 2 copies in the SB where they can do no harm. Supporting two copies with 2x Corrupted Crossroads (in the Brushland slot), 4x Cavern & 3x Lotus looks reasonable enough from a bit of goldfish testing.
Is that a SB option with Delver or looking to switch out Dismember and the Wails all together? I personally believe we need the removal, so I could see bringing in Thorn from SB against Delver, I'm just not sold on Strangler.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
No, that is just a potential SB plan for Delver, depending on how it works out.Quote:
Originally Posted by xArabOfficerx
Alright, so what's the new complete list look like as of now? Brushlands being replaced my corrupted crossroads? How are you liking the 4th Displacer instead of the 4th Reshaper?Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
Yeah. I don't feel like copypasting the list for every little change I make.Quote:
Originally Posted by xArabOfficerx
New league run: 4-1
R1: Infect 2-0
R2: BUG Delver 2-0
R3: UR Delver 2-0
R4: Wg Eldrazi Mirror (my build) 1-2 (had an abyssal draw G1 - mull to 5 with double city :rolleyes: and G3 he topdecked Dismember of a displaced TKS, plus topdecking a SoL land for a second Displacer activation into lethal before the turn I had lethal. Not fun being of the receiving end when my build goes into bullshit topdeck mode :tongue: )
R5: Aggro Loam 2-1
Tried the aggro plan with only minimal boarding (Thorns in both times, vs BUG also Wail out, Strangler in). It worked this time, but it's far too early to make any conclusions.
I played the legacy showdown yesterday at Grandprix NY . Went 4-3...In general i was happy with my play for the most part,Ive questioned a couple plays but, i'll talk about that later.
RD1 rug delver- He wins the roll and plays a delver and passes .I play chalice, he forces,i pass he flips delver plays another one . I play a tks , he dazes and brainstorms with the floating blue and i scoop. GM2 I chalice and tks. GM 3. ALMOST EXACTLY GAME 1. (0-1)
RD 2 lands- He wins the roll and takes the play. He has natural turn 3 dark depths , i have natural turn 3 end bringer with no mana to activate. GM2 he has loam/waste lock starting on turn 2.....i should mulligan to the leyline ( 0-2)
RD3 bug delver . I win the roll play a chalice on 1. he plays a polluted delta pass. i play a 3/3 endless one and a matter reshaper he scoops....i HAVE NO IDEA WHAT HES PLAYING ...So , i board in two thorns and 4 leyline thinking he could be on reanimator or storm. GM 2 He plays a delver ,i play mimic, 2/2 endless one. he plays another delver i play tks then a smasher and just roll him. Had the leyline in my opener ..not the best not the worst. (1-2)
RD 4 - 4 color pod . dont remeber much about the match other than baleful strix drawing him a bunch of cards and birthing pod being to slow. and it was pretty easy. (2-2)
RD 5 dredge . HE mulls to 5 I chalice on one , then tks take his breakthrough .he gets a grave troll dredging , i take it with a phyrexian metamorphosed copy of tks and he never recovers. i mulligan to the leyline .my opener is leyline chalice,chalice,lotus petal caver, cavern. i keep, play my entire hand turn one and a couple turn later a displacer and a reshaper got me there.(3-2)
RD6 TES. It just so happens my opponent is a local and we're familiar with each other and know what the other is playing ..I'm 4-0 against him in sanctioned matches ...This is no different. (4-2)
RD7 reanimator . he wins the roll and carefull study/reanimates a griselbrand with a petal. .GM 2 leyline, chalice ,displacer all play a roll At one point he reanimated my tks and took my endbringer but i flickered it with displacer. he wasn't happy.. Gm 3 i didn't mulligan to the leyline because i thought double mimc+ smasher would be fast enough. i draw a third mimic play all three and pass.he entombs an elesh norn and exhumes it next turn i play a karakas and bounce it . i play a tsk he forces , next turn i play another tks, he forces AGAIN .i play a smasher he takes 5 ,entombs grave titan, reanimates grave titan, i die a few turns later drawing brushland, ancient tomb, basic waste with my opponent at 2 life....I shoulda mulliganed to the leyline AGAIN. (4-3)
Moral of the story is mulligan to the leyline.
Positive result right there for the Delver plan. How'd the Strangler feel? I take this run as a 5-0.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
One game (where I didn't even draw it) is far away from the data required to evaluate it.Quote:
Originally Posted by xArabOfficerx
For those testing my build, I'd like to hear how you perform vs Delver with the aggro plan, aka minimal sideboarding.
I'm on a list very close to yours and thats actually my thoughts on it too,is to out agree them. I would want some amount of spatial contortion and warping wail.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
Might be worth noting, several of the previous 5-0 MTGO runs with Eldrazi have been the Colorless builds with Endbringer and SSG. Does it appear that Colorless is making a case for being a strong build to compete with the W/G Splash?
@Barook - Did you place in Urborg for a City of Traitors or did you keep the same land adjustment except the 2 Corrupted Crossroads for the 2 Brushlands?
Just Crossroads for Brushlands. I'm not a fan of Urborg due to helping out the opponent.Quote:
Originally Posted by xArabOfficerx
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
I have played 3 Spatial Contortion in SB since the beginning of my test with Eldrazi, in every version (Colorless, White, Blue-White), exactly with the purpose of solving these problems: delver matchups, too much life loss from both Ancient Tombs and Dismembers (and also for Death and Taxes matchup). I never questioned them, and I loved them every time they showed up. Also, I dislike Jitte, except for the mirror, since I found it too slow and too prone to tricks from the opponent (if they cast their removal in response to the equip you have lost 4 mana which is a huge tempo swing).Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHernandez
I also would like to draw your attention on the following UW build.
It took down a side event (45 players) in the italian 4-days big event Ovinogeddon (spring edition). At first look, I really disliked the list, but the day after I played against the pilot and I was able to exchange a few impressions with him and I started to change my ideas. Then, yesterday, I took a similar list to a small tournament (22 players, swiss only) and I went 4-1, losing only to the winner (with Grixis Delver) after two good draws of him (one of the 2 Ancient Grudges, then he topdecked the green mana source for the flashback, then he drew the third bolt).
Maybe it sounds too "modern-like", but the Skyspawner really shines, it gives you mana ramp and a flying blocker. The combo with displacer is nuts, I had it running once and obviously it took the game.
My list, for reference:
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Eldrazi Skyspawner
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Warping Wail
1 Endbringer
4 Tundra
4 Adarkar Wastes
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Eye of Ugin
2 City of Traitors
SIDEBOARD:
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Pithing Needle
1 Null Rod
3 Spatial Distortion
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Warping Wail
1 Endbringer
2 Ratchet Bomb
The Endbringer maindeck was really just a filler to get to 60 cards... I didn't like adding one more land, nor the fourth copy of the Sphere effect (I know many of us are completely moving them to the SB, and I too often sideboard them out -I even sideboard out chalices sometimes- but I don't feel secure cutting them completely from the maindeck). Probably, it could be a dismember, but the original list was bold enough to run completely without removals, so I guessed 3 wails MD could be enough. I am open to your suggestions on this matter.
Probably anyway I should replace the Endbringers with Drowner of Hopes, as in the original list.
The tokens also allow you to block a Batterskull without having them gain life, or to block a Jitte-equipped creature without having them get counters.
I'm gna give the Eldrazi Skyspawner a try in Legacy (over Matter Reshaper). I did love them in the Modern builds.
Is Skyspawner really that much of an Upgrade? The list has cut LotusPetal/Spirit Guides if im not mistaken to play Skyspawners and ALSO has cut down on City of Traitors. Looks like it lost a lot of explosiveness.....
Also, is Drowner really better than Endbringer?
Please visit the link in my previous post and take a look at the list from which I took inspiration... I think you're replying to my very personal choices (he played 3 cities, it's me that plays only two; four is a sure mistake. Also he played 26 lands where I am going with 25, and I even played 24 without accelerators... You expose yourself a little bit more to mana screw but I flood too much too often).
That said, I never liked petals nor cities, these latter most of all: what's their purpose? they don't increase your chances of t1 lock piece unless you then auto-wastelands yourself, thus at t2 going back with mana as if you didn't "cheat" with sol lands. For this purpose, Simians are simply better, since they can also surprise an opponent out of a Daze (I was able to do that). Also you can run petals only without Thorns... maybe it's a necessity for the white splash, but...
I don't play online and I don't know your meta, but going without Thorns seems very bold to me. In a mid to big tournament you always get paired against 1-2 combos at least and I don't want to give away that power g1.
Lastly, of course you become a little less aggro. Maybe it's a personal style (I'm a control player, so I play controllish even when piloting combo or aggro :P) but I think it's exactly the purpose in the matchups you want to improve. In every matchup you have to understand your role, and against Grixis Delver you are NOT the aggro. Against death and taxes the matchup is grindy (and the token far more valuable than the petal). Also I don't think speed is the (only) way against Cascade.
I'm afraid you're underestimating the power of board advantage and, moreover, FLYING: bye bye delver and flickerwisp is a huge upgrade.
Please give the build a try before judging: I did the same mistake.
Regards
Skyspawner might in many situations be superiour to Matter Reshaper, but i did never like Reshaper in the first Place.
I have run some testgames with Skyspawner and im not overly impressed either. He fits nice onto curve and can sometimes trade with a delver while leaving a token behind, but it did not feel like Skyspawner would actually solve any problems for the deck. Might need more testing tho.
And even though i agree that T1 City of Traitors feels really wrong, T1 City into Chalice@1 into T2 Temple into Thought-Knot is still GAME vs so many decks that i think its a calculated and worthwhile risk to play 3 City of Traitors.
(Forgive me in advance for the very short response).
Simply a matter of game style, I suppose. Apparently, you are ok with a game plan of "drop 2 of my most strong cards and hope they can steal the game"; for me, too many things can go wrong this way.
EDIT: Am I the only one which finds an inner contradiction in these?
Quote:
(Skyspawner) can trade with a delver while leaving a token behind, but it did not feel like (this) would actually solve any problems
I think the Skyspawner might just be too low of a powerlevel for Legacy. I mean, Matter Reshaper basically cycles, and Displacer has a powerful blink effect. Skyspawner is just a 2/1 flying body plus a 1/1 token body.