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I think with the little rise of Mono Red Chalice in Legacy, Ur Delver will become slightly a better Delver deck or a better choice compared to the other Delver builds. Since Blood Moon effects do not bother us the big challenge against it is CotV and Trinisphere while other Delver decks have to fight through all of it. I allready played against Mono Red Prison and it always came down to me finding hate cards or not. The matchup is very even though.
Is Riddleform too slow?
i've recently started playing this deck for about 2 months now.
i brought this to my weekly grinder, went 2-2 (got some store credit for my effort).
the major change was the shift from 3 YP's to storm chasers, and +1 probe, +1 chain for forked bolt & fireblast.
4 delver
4 swiftspear
3 storm chaser
1 grim lava
2 tnn
4 probe
4 ponder
4 bs
4 daze
4 fow
1 vapor snag
4 bolt
4 chain
2 pop
4 tarn
4 strand
3 volcs
2 island
2 mountain
board
2 flusterstorm
2 surgical
2 pyroblast
2 pyrostatic pillar
2 rough//tumble
1 needle
1 grafdigger's
1 sulfuric vortex
1 smash
1 vapor snag
game 1 vs esper delver: lingering souls was bothersome. tnn decided each game's outcome & top deck (by bs) bolt in game 3. 2-1
game 2 vs jund: i won game 1. game 2 & 3 became difficult once goyfs resolved late in the game. 1-2
game 3 vs bug control: i dont remember much from this game, but it felt awful facing leovold, tnn backed by decay and pushes. 0-2
game 4 vs aluren: never played this match. game 1 loss because he combo'd with the strix & harpy. game 2 & 3 was won by landing pyrostatic pillar.
Deathrite all day. Kill on the spot.
I think i need 2 blood moons in the board, but what to cut?
Hi people,
How do you feel that this deck is positioned these days? I'm considering if I should pick up Legacy again, and this would be a perfect entry deck if it's good enough.
Strictly speaking I also came to ask how fun this deck is to play over time, but I can't imagine that playing a Daze/Brainstorm/FoW deck could ever get boring.
I also started my journey with this deck. I think it is good enough to get some wins. It is one of the more straightforward decks, so after some time I started changing some of the cards to increase the fun factor. You can easily switch between more aggro or more controlling build. Looking back, I am glad that I went this route.Quote:
Originally Posted by Havrekjex
Ur Delver is in a good spot right now. With the rise of Red Stompy/Prison and combo decks like Turbo Depths you have a really good chance to outrace your opponent very early and to just concentrate on countering the most important spell. Ur Delver has not a positive matchup against Turbo Depths and Red Prison in general (more like 50/50), it is just that these decks are designed to beat Delver and blue decks and you provide a very stabile manabase and a very aggressive game plan so Ur Delver has sometimes even a better chance than its brother in Grixis. Also the heavy burn strategie gives you a REAL plan B against any deck so Ur Delver is not as limited as people might think. Grixis Delver is still the better deck but this is mainly because of the variety of decks you can meet. Black offers incredible good sideboard cards so there is postboard always a better chance with Grixis than Ur. Grixis shines against the variety of decks, becuase it can play aggro, control, mana denial, big creatures, fast creatures, counter, etc. Ur Delver is more limited but also more straight forward than this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Havrekjex
To the fun part: For me Ur Delver is the most fun Delver deck to play. I like to see how my Swiftspear grows and if I manage to "combo" my opponent with Brainstorm, Gitaxian Probe, Bolt and Fireblast. With Ur Delver you are one of the last remaining TRUE aggro decks which at least for me means something. Also Ur Delver is able to switch to a Aggro-Control build when adding more counterspells and hate cards against combo decks so you dont play the aggro role all the time. Ur Delver is very skill intensive imo, you need to do your math right and need to know when to go full in and when to wait. T1 creature is not always the correct play, little details matter because we dont really have any creature which provides a body like Gurmag Angler.
Behold your latest 1-of candidate: Bonus Round.
Makes an exciting late game finish.
One could do double PoP, and add more juice to our prowess critters.
Too expensive? Thoughts?
Yeah... I don't see this deck planning on winning games where it plays 5 mana sources. I think one should avoid spells that 1. Cost 3+ and 2. Do nothing on their own.Quote:
Originally Posted by sonorous
Did anyone tried Manamorphose in UR Delver? I was testing a prowess version with chart a course, but some days ago i have brewed with UR Delver in Modern and have included Manamorphose in that deck instead of banned Gitaxian Probe. Then i have tyied a "new tech" in Legacy deck instead of Charts. I think that the substitution increased the speed and power of our prowess creatures. I really enjoy the manamorphose so far. Any thoughts?
The general opinion is that Manamorphose is not good in this deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Listlik
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...archid=4531479
Hello mates,
I 4-0'ed a small (18 people) paper tournament in my LGS.
My list is below.
Notes:
I accidentally put only 14 lands in the deck and luckily it was enough.
Grim Lavamancer beats creature decks.
Young Pyromancer beats UW control.
Chart a Course is super cool.
Matches:
Infect
WB Thalia, Mystic, Chalice, Sinkhole, Wasteland
another Infect
UW Miracles with Mentor and Back to Basics
The decklist:
2 Island
1 Mountain
2 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Volcanic Island
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Brainstorm
3 Chain Lightning
1 Chart a Course
4 Daze
1 Fireblast
4 Force of Will
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Ponder
2 Price of Progress
1 Spell Pierce
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Monastery Swiftspear
3 Young Pyromancer
Sideboard:
1 Dismember
1 Flusterstorm
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Invasive Surgery
1 Pithing Needle
1 Price of Progress
2 Pyroblast
1 Pyrokinesis
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Smash to Smithereens
1 Sulfuric Vortex
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Vapor Snag
Yeah thats so true. Lavamancer main is such a beast vs. all creature decks. Also he works against stuff like 4c control because he either pings or shoots Strix, Shaman, Snapcaster which is great. Lavamancer is a card which is dealt with immediately or your opponent seems to be in a bad spot because Lavamancer takes over the entire game. Young Pyromancer is also a card your opponent MUST deal with otherwise he floods and dominates the battlefield. YP is just waaay stronger than Stormchaser Mage. The only good thing about Stormchaser is it has evasion and haste so it is sometimes better vs. combo and you can combo yourself in a turn with multiple prowess triggers when YP had to wait. I currently play a 2/1 split with YP/Stormchaser. Chart a Course on the other hand I really dont like. It costs 2 mana which feels clunky for a spell which just draws cards, also it does not trigger prowess so I could never play with that card in the right way.Quote:
Originally Posted by jattra
Has anybody ever tested Eidolon of the Great Revel in the sideboard? I think the card could work wonders... You have a threat T2 vs. Storm which can't be disrupted T1. So you could focus on your beatdown plan while protecting Eidolon to be removed which prevents the opponent to get into Storm. Against Elves Eidolon is probably even better, the whole turn with Glimpse of Nature will not work anymore. Also against all control builds like 4c and Miracles, which live by cantriping, playing cheap removal spells and Snapcastering, Eidolon will be also extremely strong and an even faster clock than Sulfuric Vortex when not dealt with. Of course these decks have answers against it, but 4 damage for 2 mana would be allready enough to close out the game in these matchups. With a little luck Eidolon would go for 6+ damage which should be the obvious winner in that matchup. I definitely gonna give it a try, I just do not have space anymore in my board. This is my current sideboard for UR Delver:
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Vapor Snag
2 Pyroblast
2 Flusterstorm
2 Abrade
1 Smash to Smithereens
1 Sulfuric Vortex
1 Pithing Needle
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Blood Moon
I could maaaaybe cut the Smash to Smithereens for the Eidolon but that would decrease my chance of an early removal for Chalice of the Void, which is more crucial for that deck. I like playing 3 artifact removal spells to fight against Chalice, Trinisphere, Bridge and various Equibments.
Thank you for your input.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamHANDSOME
The card is not here to trigger prowess. Draw two for two is good. Dig to find threat if all yours chups got removed during the longer game is also fine even though you have to discard a card. I am happy with it as I am not fully focused on prowess. You also can attack with an elemental token into anything and draw two.
The card is obviously awful against fast decks and mana denial decks (looking at you D&T).
By coincidence, I put one Eidolon in my sideboard for the next week. I am also optimistic about that card.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamHANDSOME
With gitaxian probe now banned, how much more of an incentive is there to move towards a wasteland/stifle build over a prowess build? No more DRS makes me think Grim Lavamancer goes down in value quite a bit, but I'm not as sold on whether or not it will end up making me like the land hate more. I'm guessing that right away, people might try to run stretched manabases to keep playing similar strategies to what they had built already, but I'd bet that trend dies down as they get punished and people put together more thought out and adjusted decks.
Either way, I'm starting to warm up to Young Pyromancer/ Chart a Course shenanigans now.
- If you want to play Wasteland and Stifle you should move to Canadian. Nothing, absolutely nothing makes this deck Wasteland and Stifle package better than Nimble Mongoose which Ur does not have. Canadian plays very very different to UR Delver, and just playing a downgraded version is not the plan imho. For example against decks which play a high removal density the best Canadian players board Delver out to give your opponents dead cards with their Bolts, Pushes, etc. Canadian is concentrating A LOT on playing 1 creature and protecting it (Nimble Mongoose has Shroud, Goyf and Mandrills are very difficult to remove, so is TNN). Against combo Canadian does play aggressive with Delver and Wastelands. Ur Delver is a TEMPO DECK, you will never board out Delver or even try to play that strategie like Canadian.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldsrocket_27
- Grim Lavamancer is probably buffed with the Shaman ban. A lot of blue decks are missing a powerful cc1 creature now with Shaman ban. All the decks which allready played red can now fill it in with Lavamancer, not 4 obv, more like 1-3 depending on the build. I probably go up to 2 Lavamancer main in Ur Delver now since we have 4 free spots of Gitaxian Probe.
- Going down the YP route now is not smart. I always played YP instead of Stormchaser because we allready had a prowess creature and YP flooded the board sooo easy in our deck with 4 Probes. Now with the Probe ban, you will play YP turn 2 and say go. Your opponent has waaaay more time to set himself up which can be quite crucial and also to slow. I mean 2 YP can be still good but the general YP game plan as sooooo weakened by the Probe ban because YP was at its best when played 2 Probes right after it. Now even if YP was removed, you could have Dazed just for another token, so YP is removed while you will hit back with Bolt power next turn.
I think in general it will be a meta call of Ur Delver how to play and be build. Right now I am thinking about adding more Burn spells into it and also maybe a single Spell Pierce. If Reanimator becomes SUPER strong which is not a good matchup for us, I will run 9-10 counter spells main + adding Vapor Snag. All this we dont know right now. I am also thinking about Price or Progress, will it stay main? Because PoP is extremely weak against combo, we played it because of the 4c Shaman junk shit all over the place and Lands. All of this is gone now (except for Lands), if Dredge becomes a thing again it can also play manaless so I am really afraid of how good PoP will be in future. That means cutting PoP cut also mean adding Wastelands so your mana will increase in the deck and will replace 4 Probes, the rest is maybe untouched. This is just pure speculation but shows that now Ur is in a spot which the cards will stay the same but it will fight against completely different decks so we dont know the good cards in the new meta yet.
I can say that with DRS and Probe getting banned today that I will be returning to this deck again. I have it on MTGO but rarely play MTGO, and this may make me play the deck on MTGO more often. I'll also get to updating the Primer if @Chatto is still around to enable me to do so.
I'm interested into why you feel the deck is better positioned now, as I thought with the amount of 4C decks and running PoP the deck was well suited. Are you looking at playing a deck that swaps the probes for more burn, or a more controlling Stifle, Young Pyromancer build? I personally feel that a slower Young Pyromancer build is just a worse RUG delver deck, I'm curious what other people's thoughts are?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheManWithaPlan
I am considering cutting one Bedlam Reveler (was running two, now down to one) and replacing it with a Snapcaster Mage for some extra reach.
I have never thought that the Stifle/Wasteland version of UR Delver was that great. Honestly, if you wanted to play Stifle and Wasteland, you should just be playing Canadian Threshold, especially now that DRS is gone. I am going to be testing the UR prowess build of the deck, with Stormchaser and Swiftspear. Honestly I feel that since the deck slows down a bit, I might be on Reveler main deck to get the extra push in the late game that you will inevitably need sometimes.Quote:
Originally Posted by coff33bit
What would you replace probe with in the prowess version of the deck ? Is preordain good ?
I'm thinking about initially trying +1 blue fetch land (for a total of 16 lands of: 3 VI, 4 Tarn, 3 blue fetches, 2 red fetches, 2 islands, 2 mountains), +1 Preordain, +1 Forked Bolt, and +1 Gut Shot.
Also on the idea board is moving my Lavamancer to the main deck, replacing one of two Reveler's with a Snapcaster, or 1-2 Chart a Course.