[Deck] Pox

As a rule of thumb, Pox seems like a crappy card when you play cards with cc higher than three in your maindeck since by running Pox, you make them near unplayable.

Otherwise though, Pox usually acts like a Smallpox that can if you are patient be abused so that it behaves like 2 or 3 Smallpox in one.

It's not a bad card. It's a bad card in a build with a curve higher than 3.

I play Ghostly Prison and in my opinion it's a much stronger option against aggro than Damnation. It's easy for your opponents to recover after a Damnation, Prison not so much if you play enough LD.

Sheltered Valley and Bottled Clostier seem to be really cool and useful cards though. Cards that I've honestly never considered, how have they been?

For your build, I highly highly recommend making the following changes...

-3/4 Phyrexian Totem/Chimeric Idol
+3/4 Mishra's Factory

-3/4 Swamp
+3/4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

-3 Phyrexian Totem
+3 Crucible of Worlds

Crucible is so freaking strong with Wasteland, Mox Diamond, Pox effects and Factories.
Factories are so much stronger than Phyrexian Totem in how they interact with Mox Diamond, Pox effects and Crucibles.
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth is an absolute must play in any build with 4 or more colorless land.

If budget isn't a concern, I would also throw in some fetchlands and duals to support Ghostly Prison and Vindicate in place of Damanation.

I still prefer Tombstalker to Nether Spirit (esp if you play fetchlands), but if you plan to run Spirit as your only creature, you can definatley very easily support two.

Sheltered Valley...
...has been great. It gives me a little more freedom when it comes to casting a questionable Pox by allowing my to recover life.

It is not fast life gain by any means, but along with some discard it has given me a fighting chance against Burn. But the best use for it has been countering the ill effects of a BitterBlossom. A turn-1 Sheltered and Mox, cast BBlossom and never lose life to it. If I follow this with a turn-2 SinkHole or SmallPox even better. It is this deck's equivelent to a turn-1 Slith Firewalker, turn-2 Pillage/StoneRain/LD spell...

It is also worth noting that I first saw Sheltered Valley used in Pox deck (Necro powered I think) back in the days following Allience's release and I thought it was a great idea so I followed.


Bottled Cloister...
...was the 4th card draw option I tried (after Arena, Skeletal Scrying and Night's Whisper). The life loss from all 3 and limits of SS and NW caused me to dismiss them. I run B. Cloister in my Mono-Red Ponza deck which, like my Pox, has 0 instants. The drawback of having no hand out-of-turn has basicly no effect. With SmallPox and Pox causing me to discard I rarely have more than 2 cards in hand after turn 4, and I cant cast them out of turn anyway. It also protects me from discard used against me.

Anyone who has play magic long enough knows that if you draw more cards you will tend to win more. More than any other change I have made to the deck, card draw from the B Cloister has give me a big bump in my win percentage.


I think my next move will be to replace a few swamps with Urborg, T of Y. and squeeze in 2 or 3 Cruc. of Worlds. I know I ran Mishra's before and I dont remember why I stopped. It might have been I had too many colorless lands, but this would have been back before Urborg was printed so they might be worth another look.

IMO B. Cloister is too vulnerable. With all sorts of artifact destroy on side, you are sure to lose your hand... And I've been in topdeckmode a lot, but when that occured, the same was true for my opponent.

You're right on the card advantage thing, but pox tends to create cardadvantage through discard.

@Roguebuild,

I'm sorry, but playing a tombstalker on turn 3 is actually kind of dumb... Unless you're playing against a fast deck you have to beat quickly. The way I see it, pox is a control deck. I use SDT and fetch so I never really run out of gas... This gives me a great mid and lategame even though I'm in semi topdeckmode (because of the sensei). I usually draw the spells I need and when I'm sure my opponent has got nothing to get rid of my stalker, I cast it. Usually it takes about 3 swings with my stalker because my opponents also tend to play fetch, FoW and other good cards that come with some lifeloss (my s-pox helps too).:wink:

@ Arne

Cloister:
You can't lose a hand if you dont have a hand. About 80% of the time when I cast a Cloister I have 0-2 cards in hand with one almost always being a land. If I was able to cast the Cloister in the first place then I had 4 mana on the table which is more than enough. The Cloister is what you cast when you have nothing else to do; and therefore nothing to lose if it is destroyed. Sure, you now have to play 2 cards each turn to prevent the risk of losing cards if it is destroyed, but that shouldnt be a problem 90% of the time.

Besides, this is POX! The card forewhich the deck is named had lead to the deaths of its own caster more than any other card in Magic other than Necropotance. If you are willing to gamble on a card like Pox, Cloister shouldnt be a problem since it is easier to play around.

Also, in my deck, the Art/(enchantment) hate tends to be sent at the Totems and BitterBlossoms first since they are often on the table 2 or 3 turns before the Cloister.


TombS(talker):

"playing a tombstalker on turn 3 is actually kind of dumb"
Strangle enough, this was exactly my point. The problem is, the fact you could play TombS on turn 3 and swing for the fences is the only arguement I can see for playing him.

Here is how I see it. It would be TombS -Vs- Totem for about 3 slots and the job of big beatstick to finish the game.

Tombs
+ 5/5 flier
+ Can be cast as soon as turn 3 in most games, swinging on turn 4
+ Not mana dependent
- is a creature in a deck running generally running very very few creatures (= < 4 in most people's decks)
- Dies the instant the controller casts any one of 6-8 spells in thier own deck. This means once it is on the board you must play around him.
- The deck has no way to protect its flying demon of death and does not run enough threats to run the other player out of removal. I do not mean to imply that a 5/5 is easy to kill, but STP, Diabloic E., Vindicate, and Innocent Blood are not exactly uncommon cards. And finding 2 red mana to use 2 burn spells on a 5/5 is not hard to do. In short, he will catch every removal spell in the deck because there is nothing else to cast them on, but they will not board them out beacuse they will be important.

Totem:
+ 5/5 trample
+ is an artifact that can be cast for 3 and produces mana
+ is not a creature (unless active) and therefore does not cause the controller to adjust game play to prevent killing their own creature and can dodge much other removal.
+ Could be attacking on turn 4 most games
- requires mana to activate
- If it takes X damage you need to sac X permenants. This I think is the only issue people really have with the card. Often I just sac extra land, but I also have Fairies I could sac or the BitterBlossom if the life is getting too close.

Pox is a control deck and as such I would rather play the card that I can use to set up my control early on and swing with a few turn later, than the card that does nothing but swing, is easier to remove, and causes me to play around it when it is on the board.


As for my current build...

Land and Almost Lands:
14 Swamps (-2)
2 UrBorg, Tombs of Yawg. (+2)
3 WasteLands (-1) becomes Mishra's Factory
2 Sheltered Valley
2 Mishra's Factories (+2)
4 Mox Diamonds (I find I am happier pitching extra lands over spells)


Creatures and Could Be Creatures:
1 Nether Spirit
2 Chimeric Idol
4 BitterBlossoms
3 Phyrexian Totem (-1) becomes Mishra's Factory

Everything Else:
2 Pox
4 Small Pox
3 SinkHole
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Thoughtseize
3 Bottled Cloister
2 Powder Keg (+2)
1 Cru. of Worlds (+1)
Damnation (-3)

SideBoard:
4 Eng. Plague (+1)
4 Pithing Needles
4 Extirpate
2 Powder Kegs
1 Cru of Worlds (+1)

I found myself siding in the Powder Kegs a lot, about 60% of the time, to deal with Goblins, Thresh, Zoo, WW, Fish, ETW tokens, whatever, and decided the 2 mana for the P-Keg was easier to deal with than 4 for Damnation. 3 Damnations became 2 PowderKegs and a Crus. of Worlds

-1 Waste and -1 Totem to make room for 2 Mishra's wasnt a big deal. I tried hard to remember why I didnt run Mishra's before when I first played Pox so many years ago and couldnt remember, but now having Cruc. I can admit I should be running at lest a few. Really Crus went in because I wanted to be able to recur Wasteland and Mishra's went in because I thought I should take advantage of the Cruc.
4 Totems was often 1 too many when I really ony need to draw 1 and with Crus I can affod to drop 1 Wasteland since I can reuse them.

I have only played about 10 games with the new changes, but so for I really like it.

Aaah, a good discussion :tongue:

About Cloister; you're absolutely right. I overlooked the fact that your hand is about empty once you play cloister. Also, with threats like bitterblossom and totem, this isn't the prime target for artifact/enchantment destruction.

the TombS is another story :wink: Maybe I just like to play this deck in a different way. My reason for playing Tombstalker over the totem, is flying. It sets a real clock. A thing the totem doesn't do. The totem has trample, I know... but when you start concentrating on attacking, you give your opponent the chance to regain some of his forces. I don't think your totem is really fond of that. Also, a stp or diabolic e. works against your totem as well as it does against my stalker... that can't be the issue.
It doesn't take me alot of trouble to keep casting spells like i.blood or s-pox... that's because I can sac an animated factory or a nether spirit.

But like I said; maybe I just like to play this deck a different way :D

ps. I don't take risks by playing pox anymore... I removed it a while ago (I play poxless)

I dont mean to imply that Totem is immune to removal, but that not being a creature all the time helps protect him. With TombS if a StP is drawn, it could be cast at will, provided there is a white mana. With Totem I can force the removal to be discarded (thoughtseize, Hymn T., Small/Pox), and when the skies are clear the cowardly 5/5 trampler can come out from under its rock. Short of a Quicken being played, it is nearly impossible to kill a Totem with a Wrath/Damnation (unless I use one to block inwhich case I have bigger problems).

But personal style in play is going to be a big factor in card choice here.
Totem is my big "creature", but the BBlossoms tend to be what does most of the damage. Totem doesnt normally attack until my hand is nearly empty or I have cards in hand with no targets (sinkhole and I have the ony lands in play) and I have extra mana on the field with nothing else to do with it.

Edit: And I cant tell you how many time I have considered dropping the 2 Poxes in place of anyone of a dozen things. But every so often they bail me out of trouble...

A ruling question a bit off-topic but still relevant I think.
How exactly does culling scales interact with nether spirit? Apparently you can maintain it by resurecting and immediately sacrificing the spirit each turn, essentialy preventing your opponent to play premanents with a CMC of 3 or less (provided you've already cleared the board).
I was wondering, how exactly does that work? Intuitively, I would say first resolve the spirit triggered effect (if he's in the yard) then the scales, but aren't you supposed to choose your target for scales BEFORE the triggered effect of spirit resolves? Same thing if he's in play, you can sac him to scales but then he won't come back on the same turn, will he?

You can't reanimate Nether Spirt and kill it with Culling Scales in the same turn. The target of Scales is determined as the ability goes on the stack, at which point Spirit isn't in play.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sanguine Voyeur

You can't reanimate Nether Spirt and kill it with Culling Scales in the same turn. The target of Scales is determined as the ability goes on the stack, at which point Spirit isn't in play.

---

That's what I thought, so the "combo" doesn't work?

No, however if it's already in play from the turn before, you can kill it every other turn to Scales to delay the self destruction.

Wait, just to be clear, a spirit destroyed by scales CANNOT come back on the same turn from the GY, since it wasn't there at the beggining of upkeep when its ability would have triggered, am I wrong?
So you would effectively need 2 spirits (1 in the GY and 1 on board) to delay scales' autodestruction indefinitely?

If you stack it correctly, yes. You'd stack the Culling trigger first, targeting the in play Spirit, then stack the recursion trigger of the other Spirit. The graveyard spirit would come into play and the other would be killed upon resolution of the respective triggers. Next turn you can repeat this.

If you're playing Culling Scales (which I can't believe people are talking up as a good card while cutting Pox as a "bad" one), you should be playing Divining Top, not extra nether spirits.

That's true, although it also means that siding in scales against any deck playing SDT (or mongoose, for that matter) is a VERY bad idea. Otherwise, I find it a really good card, taking care of most of the deck's problem, ie enchantments and artefacts. I usually side it in whenever I see two different enchantments/artifacts. Its only problem is its poor tempo, but this is compensated by the rest of the deck.

Just thought I post that my current build has been working great!
A month ago when i first started playing again (only online right now) and I built 4 decks in MWS, Pox was only winning between 20-30%. Now I'm winning up around 80-90%. Granted; this is on MWS where the quality of player can can be anything from "what is mana?" to the pro-tour player just looking to use his new combo deck and make some 10 year old hate the game and quite, but for a deck I was ready to abondon just a few weeks ago I'm really happy with the improvements.

My current build:

Land and Almost Lands:
14 Swamps
2 UrBorg, Tombs of Yawg.
3 WasteLands
2 Sheltered Valley
2 Mishra's Factories
4 Mox Diamonds

Creatures and Could Be Creatures:
1 Nether Spirit
2 Chimeric Idol
4 BitterBlossoms
3 Phyrexian Totem

Everything Else:
2 Pox
4 Small Pox
3 SinkHole
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Thoughtseize
3 Bottled Cloister
2 Powder Keg
1 Cru. of Worlds

SideBoard:
4 Eng. Plague
4 Pithing Needles
4 Extirpate
2 Powder Kegs
1 Cru of Worlds

BitterBlossoms still do the bulk of the killing, often 12-17 points a game with Totems doing most of the remaining damage.

The toughest match up I have found has been Goblins. The ability to explode from 1 to 3 to 8 creatures over just a turn or 2 make it nearly impossible to keep up without a true board sweeper like Wrath/Damnation. Powder Kegs help but they are slower and can be played around.

Thresh I have not had any consistant problems with, largely I would guess is due to the fairly low creature count and Goyf can be chump blocked all day with a BBlossom or Nether Spirit.

And Staxs, which i once dreaded playing, is now an even fight.


I still question if I should be running the 2 Pox in the deck. They are often the first things sided out, but there are games that I would clearly have lost without them.

Thats my update. The deck has been doing well.

I haven't had the chance to mess arond with this deck at all. But I'm very intrigued by prospect of playing...

Nether Spirit + Bitterblossom + Contamination.

It would let you cut land destruction for...

tutors + more discard/disruption + removal (damnation) + more threats

Obviously the entire deck would be chagned. But it would be very strong against nonblack decks.

When you choose to play contamination, focus on it entirely. Don't put in in your deck as an alternative lock. I've tried to play it but it didn't work for me all to well.

Yeah, that was what I was getting at.

It would be a black control deck.

Tons of discard.

Atleast 4 tutors, maybe more.

Nether Spirit + Bitterblossom.

But basically, you end up with a deck built around a two card combo. At that point, why not just play Painter's Servant.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Clark Kant

Yeah, that was what I was getting at.

It would be a black control deck.

Tons of discard.

Atleast 4 tutors, maybe more.

Nether Spirit + Bitterblossom.

But basically, you end up with a deck built around a two card combo. At that point, why not just play Painter's Servant.

---

This seems like the more reliable build. I was playing a monoblack version with this route. Too bad you lose the power to vindicate stuff. I got rid of my vindicates during extended when they were going for like $30 a pop.

now i need to pick them up again.

Current decklist:

Utility
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Phyrexian Totem

Threats
4 Bitterblossom
1 Nether Spirit
3 Chimeric Idol

Disruption
2 Deathcloud
2 Engineered Plague
4 Sinkhole
4 Duress
4 Pox
4 Smallpox
4 Hymn to Tourach

Mana
4 Dark Ritual
3 Sheltered Valley
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
18 Swamp