[Deck] Fetchland Tendrils

Emidln... Bad day?... :eek:

So yeah, running 1 Lotus Petal is non-traditional in a Tendrils deck... But then again, this isn't a regular Tendrils deck anymore. It's like Thresh but with a combo finish instead of Goyf pounding. And frankly, only a handful of people can actually play this thing properly until they understand that this isn't the norm. I myself have stuck to the old builds with Street Wraith, primarily because these newer versions are too complicated for my playskill.

The memorable never emerged from a formula... Or something like that.

While FT seems to be in a constant state of upheaval, there's nothing dubious about building a Top/DDay based Storm deck. When I built FT, I focused on Top/DDay as the center piece and treated Infernal Tutor and Lim-Dul's Vault as the plan B, Emidln's current lists aren't that much different.

NOT to start anything since I THINK its over with but Emidlin has done a very excellent job with this deck. I have played storm combo in Legacy since I started which is roughly 4 years ago. Until now I have understood every choice Emidlin has made as we keep in fairly steady contact. The reasons I have not understood it lately is because like many others I find playing this list to be all but impossible if I want to play it PERFECTLY like I can do with the old Iggy lists. Those lists and these lists are highly similar although VERY differnt in the ideal meta game. As ace said Iggy is insane when control is laying dormant in its cave. Fetch Tendrils is second to Iggy when aggro rules the day. It is part of that whole rock beats paper beats sciccors thing that magic is so fond of.

To start some discussion again, I have to ask for an advice. I found a list that fits my play style but I'm still unsure about 2 slots in the deck.
Here's the list:
// Lands
2 [A] Underground Sea
1 [ST] Swamp (1)
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
2 [MM] Island (3)
1 [U] Scrubland
1 [U] Tundra
1 [P3] Plains (1)

// Spells
4 [5E] Brainstorm
1 [US] Ill-Gotten Gains
1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
4 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
4 [A] Dark Ritual
4 [TO] Cabal Ritual
3 [TE] Lotus Petal
4 [MI] Mystical Tutor
4 [PS] Orim's Chant
1 [TSP] Wipe Away
3 [LRW] Ponder
1 [PT] Cruel Bargain
1 [6E] Doomsday
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top

the 2 questionable slots:
1 Tendrils/ETW/Death Wish (right now is Tendrils)
1 IGG/Doomsday/SDT/Ponder/LDV (right now is Doomsday)


What do you suggest me to put in those slots? Please don't take into discussion the rest of the deck.

Since I do not believe Emidlin will be posting on the source for a while (although I personally hope otherwise) I will do my best to take up his mantle and continue on with the greatest deck the storm boards ever gave birth to.

@GreenOne: I would personally recomend the Death Wish although this is dependent on what is in your board and what meta you expect for your first open slot. For the second open slot I would assure you that the second IGG is not the correct answer. I would personally and I beleive Emidlin would back this up, recomend D-Day but also cut 1 infernal to fit in the 4 top. The number one issue I have when playing this deck is having to infernals in hand. That situation is the worst I have ever encounterd because you always end up wasting one or wishing it was something else. Having multiple tops while not the nuts is still a much more solid second copy then an infernal. Top allows for D-Day piles much more efficently and can find cards easier from your deck then infernal can particuarly if they are a 1 of and you need it for set up.

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1 Tendrils/ETW/Death Wish (right now is Tendrils)

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This should be correct. I never play fewer than 2 Tendrils, if I play EtW it goes into another slot. Death Wish turned out not to be great.

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1 IGG/Doomsday/SDT/Ponder/LDV (right now is Doomsday)

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1 SDT/Meditate

IGG - one is absolutely enough, especially if you're playing more than 1 Infernal Tutor.
Ponder/LDV - I don't think that this slot should be going to a mere setup card.
Doomsday - I believe that upping the Doomsday count is only correct if you're cutting Infernal Tutors, which you don't.

Meditate is great in conjunction with Doomsday because you don't need 6 black mana anymore and in some situations it's even better than Cruel Bargain as a setup card - my experience is that playing 2 Draw 4s rarely hurts. 4 SDTs make Doomsday obviously more consistant.
--> I can't decide between these two. I'd include both and cut the fourth Infernal.

I really gotta figure out how to quote people so it works... I agree when Bhren that the D-Wish is not ideal although I do not personally enjoy getting cocked by thoughtseize rip out tendrils extirpate. While I realize that is extreme anhy discard spell could do that to you. I prefer the open card selection ability of the wish because at times even grabbing a rebuild can do a serius number and allow you to win when it would otherwise have been impossible.

I do believe however that me and Bhren are in agreement that you should cut the fourth infernal and run D-Day and Top. You also, as Bhren pointed out, may want to fit in Meditate. I apparently imagined that card being in the list. To fit that in I would probablly cut either the 3rd petal or the 3rd infernal. IF you are going to worlds I think cutting the 3rd petal is the right play due to its lack of power in a meta over run annually with control decks like thresh.

You got Doomsday, so you shouldn't play with less than 4 Tops. It's the best doomsday enabler and it counts as 1 storm for a single mana in case of uselessness. The last goodness is that drawing a 2nd one can convert itself into a storm enabler, allowing you to combo without IGG or Doomsday.

I've been using Death Wish in the sideboard, as I didn't yet surrender to the use of discard spells. Those would kick Death Wish out of my sideboard, for space reasons. Anyway, I always side it in when I see Extirpate is coming and even against Leyline if there's room for it. It's proven not to be worthy of the maindeck as of a long time.

Up Tendrils to 2. There are many situations in which you need a 2nd Tendrils, aside from not needing to rely on the graveyard if it ends up there somehow and doesn't get extirpated. Be it for Double Tendrils or for Doomsday-Tendrils-Go-Tendrils kills over 2 turns, both which are pretty common against control. For the latter, having a single Tendrils requires more storm after passing the turn and will leave you with less life, since Tendrils will have to be cast before Doomsday or you will need to have Death Wish to get it, requiring a minimum of 2 life (4 if you cast BBB Draw 4) to go off next turn again. There is a post from me a few pages back that shows Doomsday-Tendrils-Go-Tendrils and Tendrils-Doomsday-Go-Tendrils kills in a hypothetical situation.

Given those, in you list, I would go +1 Top, +1 Tendrils. But, still, you might want to experiment with a list playing more Doomsday and less Infernal Tutor. Also, less Wipe Away and more Krosan Grip, unless Gaddock and Mage are present in your area. Finally, why 3 Petals? The 2nd and 3rd aren't useful and you could be running an extra land (good with Top) and Meditate (superb against control).

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Originally Posted by GreenOne

1 Tendrils/ETW/Death Wish (right now is Tendrils)

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Empty the Warrens. You don't need a massive storm count to win the game with it (often 3 to 4 storm is enough), it rolls over any deck that is unprepared, and in a desperate situation, it can give you enough blockers to delay the game long enough for you to find an answer/workaround. If you go with EtW, don't forgot to add in a Volcanic Island.

Also, if you cast it game 1, always side it out for something else. It seems like EtW is everyones favorite card to drop a Mage on.

Death Wish takes up too many resource, and isn't so great when combined with Doomsday and Cruel Bargain.

I generally don't like Tendrils #2 on the basis that, if I'm casting Tendrils, I should be winning the game right now. It depends on the meta though. If every deck you play against has maindeck Keg/EE/Truth, Tendrils #2 is much less risky than EtW.

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Originally Posted by GreenOne

1 IGG/Doomsday/SDT/Ponder/LDV (right now is Doomsday)

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Tough call. Either SDT or Ponder here. Brehn is right about Doomsday in this slot...any beyond the first one should be replacing Infernals.

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Originally Posted by m03

Empty the Warrens. You don't need a massive storm count to win the game with it (often 3 to 4 storm is enough), it rolls over any deck that is unprepared, and in a desperate situation, it can give you enough blockers to delay the game long enough for you to find an answer/workaround. If you go with EtW, don't forgot to add in a Volcanic Island.

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ETW was good once. Now, every (aggro-)control deck runs EE and/or Deed -- if they don't, they should -- and aggro decks won't care about less than 12 goblins. Post board, ETW must be replaced by something else. There are no deck going into game 2 without an answer to that card. Then, you also need to add an otherwise useless land that will expose the deck even more to Wasteland and Moon. You should simply run Tropical Island and enable Krosan Grips.

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Originally Posted by m03

Also, if you cast it game 1, always side it out for something else. It seems like EtW is everyones favorite card to drop a Needle or a Mage on.

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Needle on ETW? Wha?

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Originally Posted by Jaiminho

Needle on ETW? Wha?

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Brainfart there...not sure why I was thinking of Needle. Ignore.

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Originally Posted by Jaiminho

ETW was good once. Now, every (aggro-)control deck runs EE and/or Deed -- if they don't, they should -- and aggro decks won't care about less than 12 goblins. Post board, ETW must be replaced by something else. There are no deck going into game 2 without an answer to that card. Then, you also need to add an otherwise useless land that will expose the deck even more to Wasteland and Moon. You should simply run Tropical Island and enable Krosan Grips.

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As I stated above:

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It depends on the meta though. If every deck you play against has maindeck Keg/EE/Truth, Tendrils #2 is much less risky than EtW.

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I personally only run one win condition (singleton Tendrils), but my build is quite different than the one mentioned above.

Also, you're mentioning opening yourself up to Wasteland, but then you suggest running Trops for Grips. I'm still not sold on this, as Wipe Away is more flexible. I see way more Gaddock Teeg and Meddling Mage in local decks though, Wipe Away is more useful to me.

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Originally Posted by m03

Also, you're mentioning opening yourself up to Wasteland, but then you suggest running Trops for Grips. I'm still not sold on this, as Wipe Away is more flexible. I see way more Gaddock Teeg and Meddling Mage in local decks though, Wipe Away is more useful to me.

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I meant that if you have to expose yourself to Wasteland, you might want to run a more useful land. Also, if those Gaddocks and Mages aren't there in game 1, you could run Grip maindeck, since Counterbalance screws setup as much as rituals, so getting rid of it for good is much better than bouncing it. On games 2 and 3, you simply sideboard Grip for bounce/creature removal against those that run the pesky creatures. By the way, for the same reason, a non Tendrils win condition might be necessary.

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Originally Posted by Jaiminho

I meant that if you have to expose yourself to Wasteland, you might want to run a more useful land. Also, if those Gaddocks and Mages aren't there in game 1, you could run Grip maindeck, since Counterbalance screws setup as much as rituals, so getting rid of it for good is much better than bouncing it. On games 2 and 3, you simply sideboard Grip for bounce/creature removal against those that run the pesky creatures. By the way, for the same reason, a non Tendrils win condition might be necessary.

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Teegs are typically maindecked here. Yeah, I hate Teeg.

Also, I assume by non-Tendrils win condition, you mean Brain Freeze. Since I run a Volcanic, I've been using the Helm/Grapeshot method.

Just curius who is running this deck or who is running something else if they are in fact going to gencon this year? I am still really on the fence about wether I will in fact run this deck or not. I feel more comfortable running the old IGGy lists then I do with this new build although I think that is because I am not really used to have options when it comes to win other than chain spells and tendrils or IGG into an eventual tendrils.

If I played something else I would likely audible into dredge or affinity. Any suggestions?

Also who from here is going to gencon? It would be cool to put names to faces.

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Originally Posted by nodahero

Just curius who is running this deck or who is running something else if they are in fact going to gencon this year? I am still really on the fence about wether I will in fact run this deck or not. I feel more comfortable running the old IGGy lists then I do with this new build although I think that is because I am not really used to have options when it comes to win other than chain spells and tendrils or IGG into an eventual tendrils.

If I played something else I would likely audible into dredge or affinity. Any suggestions?

Also who from here is going to gencon? It would be cool to put names to faces.

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I would prefer running the old Iggy Pop list that is posted in the beginning of the thread. It proves to win much faster which is one of the keys on beating a lot of hate. This is another reason why Byrant has done so well with his TES deck, b/c its so fast that he just combos out before the other player can cast the hate cards against him.

If I went to GenCon, I would play a deck that is very consistent. This may sound funny, but I would play either Goblins or Landstill. In the course of a long event those 2 decks are very consistent and can beat just about any deck in the format.

Let me know what you think.

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Originally Posted by nickrit2000

If I went to GenCon, I would play a deck that is very consistent. This may sound funny, but I would play either Goblins or Landstill. In the course of a long event those 2 decks are very consistent and can beat just about any deck in the format.

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Or, of course, Threshold.

If you haven't playtested the new lists, then you should possibly just play one of the older iterations (4 Petal, 4 Street Wraith) of the deck. It is a good starting point, and most of the strategies/interactions of the deck become apparent after only a few games. The newer lists, while slightly slower, are resilient to a larger number of hate cards/strategies that require more sophisticated lines of play that some people's brains can't really handle (especially over a long tournament), especially without sufficient playtesting.

And to dispel a myth: While the old lists (4 petal, 4 SW) could be fast, hands would let you go off around turn 3 on average. News flash, even turn 3 is not fast enough to "race" the hate. People can play cards like Force of Will, Counterbalance, Chalice of the Void, Extipate, Meddling Mage, Trinisphere, Thoughtseize, Duress, etc...on turn 1 or 2. Silly people with their combo disrupting cards... Sure, occasionally with the old lists you'd look down at Land, Petal, 4x rituals/LED, infernal tutor...and win on turn 1, but turn 1 is not the norm. If your preference is winning or losing the game quickly (aka "Racing the hate") on turn 1 or 2, I might suggest looking into SI or possibly TES. TES is very fun and relatively intuitive to play, you really couldn't go wrong there.

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Originally Posted by nodahero

Just curius who is running this deck or who is running something else if they are in fact going to gencon this year? I am still really on the fence about wether I will in fact run this deck or not. I feel more comfortable running the old IGGy lists then I do with this new build although I think that is because I am not really used to have options when it comes to win other than chain spells and tendrils or IGG into an eventual tendrils.

If I played something else I would likely audible into dredge or affinity. Any suggestions?

Also who from here is going to gencon? It would be cool to put names to faces.

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If you don't have time to playtest the hell out of the Doomsday list to the point of playing it in your sleep then don't play it. The deck, although being infinitely more resilient is much less intuitive than previous incarnations and that will come back to bite those with less experience.
If you want to play Doomsday, read this and memorize all the stacks along with their variations http://emidln.googlepages.com/doomsdaystacks

Now, if you decide that Doomsday is not what you want to play, out of the decks listed, the original FT list is without a doubt the best deck to play. If you can pick up the cards for something else, play either Canadian Threshold or a version of Geoff's Landstill list.

Does anyone have any examples of good "pass the turn" stacks? I remember finding a couple at one point, but I haven't been able to.

I agree with Whit3 Ghost here, if you don't have time to learn the doomsday version and still want to play combo, non-doomsday FT (grim IGG?) is still totally viable.

EDIT: Hi guys, I'm back ^_^

Welcome back!

SDT in play, 2 cards in hand, 2U the turn after you cast doomsday

[Top]
Brainstorm
LED
Helm
SDT
Grapeshot
[Bottom]

Requires 2U and 2 cards in hand (any) the turn after you cast doomsday. There aren't other stacks worth memorizing although there are some that involve IGG, I believe.