honestly i cant see the reason to run shapnel over rift bolt
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honestly i cant see the reason to run shapnel over rift bolt
Rift bolt is either slow or it cost 3 as Sharpnel is 5 dmg for 2 which is great.
This deck is all about virtual card advantage. Your opponent will draw dead card after dead card with this deck and this is one of the ways it shines! Creature removal? Dead. Artifact removal? Dead. You start adding Great Furnaces, and you give them a target for their Krosan Grips, and what deck is not playing green for Goyf these days? This means you do not gain card advantage. And you also lose a land and a spell, so they have effectly 2:1'd you. And Goyf now has another +2/+2 for an artifact and a land! So they now have the card advantage. Well done.
And as for Rift Bolt - play it. Simple as that. It is never a wasted first or second turn play, and, if you play Cave-In, it is the perfect pitch card later in the game!
But, each to their own and well done to the 14yr old girl who took 4th place and put this deck back in the DTB Forums!
Yankee
I haven't tested burn for a very long time, and I'd like to begin again. Seeing that a 14 (okay, I don't laugh, i'm 15) year old girl can actually top4 made me happy with Burn, yet again. Burn is indeed a good deck, not just something random. Hey, am I the only one who can't stand people that just says that "burn is an excuse for playing magic cheap and an easy way to win tournaments"? Seriously, even though the very basic nature of burn might seem boring, is it horribly interesting topdecks that you make during the game. I think that Burn is a very exciting deck to play with.
Enough of that wierd sentimental talk. Has anyone tested Smash To Smithereens over Shattering Spree? Currently, my very outdated sideboard looks like this:
3 Blood Moon
3 Shattering Spree
4 Pyroblast
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Chalice of the Void
Blood Moon is mainly for landstill. Most of the time, it's counter-bait when I'm about to play a Price of Progress. Shattering Spree is for Chalices. Red Pyroblast is for Counterbalances. Dryad Arbor is my super secret tech with wooded foothills to fetch against an opposing nimble mongoose or dark confidant. Really, it rocks! :D Chalice of the Void is ironically against fast combo. If I manage to get a turn, I can slow them down. Also, when I play it for 0, I don't suffer. What does peolpe think of this board? My meta is thresh variants, landstill, some aluren and fetchland tendrils and a single SI.
i'd like to know if there is something like a optimal burn list, because i really think there can be a optimal list with all the burn spells around here.
after i bought a german playset of lightning bolt and fireblast, i had the idea to make my whole burn deck as german as possible:laugh: i'm not german myself but i like the language.
this is my list:
4xkeldon marauders
4xmogg fanatic
4xlightning bolt
4xchain lightning
4xlava spike
4xrift bolt
4xmagma jet
4xprice of progress
4xfireblast
2xbarbarian ring
16xmountain
as you can see, there are 6 slots over, but i dont know what to put in it, should i play incinerate, flamebreak, sulfuric vortex, street wraith, baubles, manamorphosis. i dont really know whats the best in it.
can some people help[ me with the open slots, and does the list for the rest looks good?
thanks, electrolyze:laugh:
ps. i like some help with the sideboard too
Nice super tech; but Thresh players won't miss mongoose that much as you miss a land, and why should Bob be killed? Plus you lose consistency, how could it rock?Quote:
Originally Posted by willoe
Sulfuric Vortex + Cave in // Flamebreak // Fork // Shard Volley ??Quote:
Originally Posted by electrolyze
With these cards, your list looks very good.
Yes they will. It happens that I often draw three lands, which is far too many. I'd be glad to stop a potential lava spike with a land. Just sayin'.Quote:
Originally Posted by tsabo_tavoc
I'd be more than happy to waste a land on bob and not a burn spell. If bob somehow attacks, I sac land and grab the arbor to face it. I usually board this arbor thingie in at the cost of 1 flamebreak against creature light decks.
Bob is a dude that is an absolute must kill. The more ressources you have, the better IMO. But this is simply a sideboard test.
How does people like a transformational sideboard? Something could consist of:
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Slith Firewalker
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Taiga
1 Dryad Arbor
And you already mainboard Keldon Marauders and Mogg Fanatic. How does that sound?
flamebreak is insane in burn... and why does none play bridge in the side?
Well, you could either mean Ensnaring Bridge or Brige from Below. Assuming that you mean the one that actually does something here (Ensnaring), it's most likely because by the time you could drop it you're either winning the game or likely to die, and while it would be nice in the second scenario, it still doesn't say "deal ~ dammage" on it. Perhaps it's worth a shot, but I've never seen cards that don't say "deal dammage" somewhere on them played in burn.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy I Don't Know
Although it does go against the strategy of the deck, I can attest that Ensnaring Bridge can be immensely powerful. In an era of Goyf and Dreadnought (which is very prevalent in my meta), Burn can sometimes be outraced. Ensnaring Bridge lets you live long enough to draw the last couple of burn spells you need to win.
Wasn't Burning Bridges an Extended deck or is that just the San DIego meta talking? I think Bridge would be great because by turn 3 you went from 7 to
7 mountain, burn 5
6 mountain burn burn
3 mountain bridge 1
2
You'll have 2 cards in hand by the time you have burned them 3 times and have a bridge which will stop a 3+ Power. That sounds pretty good to me. Oh and beware, Piledriver gets under Bridge too.
I'm wary of playing cards in Burn that don't burn at all. About the only consistently scary creature clock is a turn 1 ETW; Bridge doesn't exacly solve that problem very well.
Dreadnaughts won't kill until turn 4, Goyfs will probably take longer. We can try to simply race that instead of dicking about with game stallers.
I build Burn with control in mind not because I expect to play control all that often, but simply because it's possible without compromising our main game plan too much.
Pulse of the Forge is a little overpriced, but can still feature in a turn 4 kill; good enough. I'll gladly accept the barely perceptible slowdown for the opportunity to recover from things like discard, counters or panic Burns (Lackey etc).
In a similar vein, Cave-In can take care of many nasty little surprises and can simply speed up mana-light hands.
It's a huge difference whether our control tools are potential blanks or whether they are merely slightly suboptimal as stupid burn spells.
I'm not too sold on going out of my way so I can trade a land for a Bob. From my experience, Burn can often deal 17-19 points of damage by turn 3; Bobs might be a liability rather than an asset to them.
ensnaring bridge seems insane in the board, if you need it. what does brn lose to? (other than trinisphere, chalice of the void)
What burn often loses to:
Counterbalance
CoP: Red
Chalice
Trinisphere
Lifegain i.e. Exalted Angel
Savage discard (turn 1 thoughtseize, turn 2 hymn, turn 3 thoughtseize and hymn)
What did I miss?
Quote:
Originally Posted by willoe
Itself. Drawing 1 too many lands, 1 wrong burn spell, or having to direct a shot at a creature to keep yourself from being ovewhelmed can easily leave you 1-4 damage short in the end.
You aren't winning on turn 1 anyway, so the Suspend is not a problem. The only time it is a problem is when you topdeck it on the turn you're supposed to win+you don't have enough mana to cast it and win that turn+you lose because of it. Situational? Maybe, but so is depending on having artifacts, then paying two cards and 2+[artifact_cost] mana for the 5 damage. Two suspended Rift Bolts give 6 damage for 2, after all. :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by NeXuS
I'd run Rift Bolt and Flame Rift before Shrapnel Blast. In fact, I'd run Flames of the Blood Hand, Flame Javelin, and probably even Browbeat (shudder) before Shrapnel Blast. On the other hand, you could be running Bridge/Bauble/Ankh Burn and then Shrapnel Blast would make a bit of sense, but we're not supposed to talk about that here. =)
It was discussed a few pages back. Basically, StS is more easily disrupted, doesn't get you out of double-Chalice-ville, and doesn't make Affinity cry big tears. However, StS is an Instant, furthers your gameplan, and thus can be sided in anytime the opp. plays artifacts (you only side in Spree against must-kill arts). You have to consider the nightly meta, and determine whether you'll face a lot of Chalices or other must-kill Artifacts. Aside from that, StS is superior against a generic meta because it's a mediocre burn spell by the numbers, but because it disrupts the opponent it's actually a spectacular burn spell in the right situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by willoe
Why is nobody playing Meekstone? It stops Goyfs, Grunts, Tombstalkers, big Mongeese, Terravore, what else... I would think it greatly improves your aggro and aggro-control matchup. Control is a good matchup anyway, so those 4 cards that you board out the 2nd game don't matter much and combo doesn't see much play and you won't win game 1 anyway. This is what I would suggest:
4 Meekstone
4 Bolt
4 Rift Bolt
4 Chain
4 Lava Spike
4 Fireblast
4 Magma Jet
3 Price of Progress
3 Spark Elemental
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Keldon Marauders
18 Mountains
Sb:
4 Shattering Spree
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
4 Ankh of Mishra
3 Pyroblast/more artifact hate: Smash to Smithereens, Meltdown
No fetch because you really need the life with burn. You are always racing your opponent, if you don't use the cards in the GY or the shuffling, don't play them. No Barbarian Rings because they hurt too much, especially since they work better with fetch and you play Price of Progress. They can also be a problem with Fireblast.
Because it doesn't further our gameplan of burning their face off. This is why we don't run Ensnaring Bridge, or Wall of Dust. This is why our anticreatures strategies (e.g. Flamebreak) also deal damage. This is why our ground game buffer (Keldon Marauders) also deals guaranteed damage outside of combat. Every nonland card in the deck must deal damage to the opponent. Even if two 5/6 Goyfs or two Tombstalkers start attacking on turn 3, that gives you the 4 turns a fast burn deck needs to pull off a win.Quote:
Originally Posted by matelml
At most, you might consider strictly anti-creature strategies in the side, but even then I'd rather go with more Flamebreaks, Cave-Ins, and perhaps Earthquakes before something that will never damage the opp.
By the way, some creatures are huge enough to not have to attack several times, bounce/untap effects get around Meekstone, and swarms of 1/1s and 2/2s won't be fazed either. If you're going to be using an anti-creature strategy that doesn't deal damage to the opp., you better be damn sure it stops everything. Otherwise, use a narrower anti-creature strategy that still lets you win off the topdeck.
In short: Run threats, not answers.
Alternately: "You're the beatdown." (Always)
This deck isn't reliably fast enough to always race the opponent. It's draw too much lands, too few, etc. Therefore, if you can stall the opponent for 3 turns, that can be very good. Flamebreak, etc doesn't handle Goyf, the biggest problem for this deck next to Chalice.Quote:
Originally Posted by kirbysdl
Ensaring Bridge IS actually played in Burn, I saw someone with it main in the T8 of the Belgian champs (110+pp). Meekstone stops enough, there aren't that many 1/1 and 2/2 swarms in Legacy anymore cause there aren't as efficient as the Goyf.
If you can always race the Goyfs, than you don't need Meekstone, but you don't.
You don't always need to play the beatdown, is Thresh a bad deck cause it plays answers?