[Deck] It's the Fear - Control in the new Era

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Originally Posted by landstill101

third game, he went off first turn and went ad nausium and had the worst ad nausium ive ever seen seeing the other ad, the warrens, the gains, and tendrils and only seeing 2 petals with no mana floating and nothing else to produce mana and killed himself.(pretty easy match for me, I didn't do a thing)

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Well, I have seen the same thing happen to a guy playing for the top8 and in the last round ... and here I was thinking it can't happen more than once in a lifetime :D ... poor guy was like "t1 Ad Nauseam, yay!" and then flipping random order of another AN, Tendrils, Tendrils, IGG, Cabal Ritual killing himself :D

I have tried Team America (winning a 16man tourney in the process :D) and I still firmly believe in ITF being a better deck. The real difference is the one landstill101 said - ITF is really difficult to play, whereas with TA you can just go and win with it. I'm playing ITF for almost as long as landstill101 now, and I am still making mistakes which tend to cost me games. Games that I should have won, if only I was a better player (and I use to be quite a well performing player overall, having my ratings hovering around 1900 in constructed and 1800 in limited. And yes, I love Legacy the most ^__^).

Still noone liking my changes to the deck? I took out stronghold and witness, in order to have better manabase (colorless mana is bad, it means no CB/CS/EE t2) and witness is sooooo sloooooooooow, I hate her. Also, Bayou is bad for the same reasons stronghold is bad - no t2 CB/CS. Better manabase = greater consistency. I love consistency in my decks.

I lost a game last night to a very subtle mistake. You need to play this deck perfectly to win but you have a pretty good chance vs. anything except for combo which isn't terrible. There is no Dreadnought or Lightning Bolt to oops I win but if you play this deck deliberately you will win more often than not.

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Originally Posted by Nightmare

Dan, I like Jailer for the same reason I like Crypt in the deck - it's recurrable through your lands. The fact that Jailer provides a way to beat them that doesn't get stopped by Needle is pretty good, too.

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We could also play Heap doll, but that is pitheable also.
The advantage is that it can be recurseable by academy ruins and volrath stronghold

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Originally Posted by johanessen

We could also play Heap doll, but that is pitheable also.
The advantage is that it can be recurseable by academy ruins and volrath stronghold

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The downside is that it a) sucks very bad and that it's b) even worse that Extirpate...
I mean come on...

Knight of the Reliquary - 1GW
Creature - Human Knight (Rare)
Knight of the Reliquary gets +1/+1 for each land card in your graveyard.
{T}, Sacrifice a Forest or Plains: Search your library for a land card, put it into play, then shuffle your library.
2/2



Can he find a place in this deck? Seems pretty cool, only thing is that he makes the deck more relying on the graveyard.
Sac Tundra, search AcademyRuins/Stronghold and a beatstick on his own.

I'd play eight Terravores in Terrageddon. Shit. Especially one that searches up Monasteries.

eta: Wait, this isn't the spoiler thread. Post left in to irritate David Gearhart.

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Originally Posted by Ch@os

Knight of the Reliquary - 1GW
Creature - Human Knight (Rare)
Knight of the Reliquary gets +1/+1 for each land card in your graveyard.
{T}, Sacrifice a Forest or Plains: Search your library for a land card, put it into play, then shuffle your library.
2/2



Can he find a place in this deck? Seems pretty cool, only thing is that he makes the deck more relying on the graveyard.
Sac Tundra, search AcademyRuins/Stronghold and a beatstick on his own.

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I like it but I think you hit it on the nose that it would make the deck rely on the graveyard too much, iunno I might test it, It is a deffinite inclusion into aggro loam, I actually think it is better than terravore

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Originally Posted by landstill101

I like it but I think you hit it on the nose that it would make the deck rely on the graveyard too much, iunno I might test it, It is a deffinite inclusion into aggro loam, I actually think it is better than terravore

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I don't think the graveyard is an issue here, unless you want that card to be much bigger than a 4/4 or 5/5; there are enough fetches in this deck to achieve that fairly easily and consistently, and enough mana hate in the format to plug maybe another or two in there to boot.

The real issues here are threefold:

1.) What are you replacing with it?

2.) Can your manabase support the colour requirement?

3.) How useful is its search ability?


Points two and three are the most significant. The most recent list you posted contains two Forests and two Plains, respectively; none of the Plains are basic, one Forest is. This makes running this creature highly unpredictable. Four colours already stretch the manabase pretty thinly, and there's enough mana hate in the format to pose difficulties for ITF. Do you really want to be wasting your own green and white sources (crucial colours for this deck) for a pretty trick that's just as easy to achieve with Intuition/Loam? I don't think so. To do so is to ask too much of Life from the Loam, let alone a single copy. The potential benefits from the card, in the context of ITF, are too inconsistent. Indeed, the card's inclusion here would promote inconsistency throughout the rest of the deck.

I could only really this card as feasible in this deck as a one-of, and as a one-of, I see Eternal Witness as infinitely more useful.

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Originally Posted by Goaswerfraiejen

I don't think the graveyard is an issue here, unless you want that card to be much bigger than a 4/4 or 5/5; there are enough fetches in this deck to achieve that fairly easily and consistently, and enough mana hate in the format to plug maybe another or two in there to boot.

The real issues here are threefold:

1.) What are you replacing with it?

2.) Can your manabase support the colour requirement?

3.) How useful is its search ability?


Points two and three are the most significant. The most recent list you posted contains two Forests and two Plains, respectively; none of the Plains are basic, one Forest is. This makes running this creature highly unpredictable. Four colours already stretch the manabase pretty thinly, and there's enough mana hate in the format to pose difficulties for ITF. Do you really want to be wasting your own green and white sources (crucial colours for this deck) for a pretty trick that's just as easy to achieve with Intuition/Loam? I don't think so. To do so is to ask too much of Life from the Loam, let alone a single copy. The potential benefits from the card, in the context of ITF, are too inconsistent. Indeed, the card's inclusion here would promote inconsistency throughout the rest of the deck.

I could only really this card as feasible in this deck as a one-of, and as a one-of, I see Eternal Witness as infinitely more useful.

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You forget Life from the Loam Dredging.

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Originally Posted by raharu

You forget Life from the Loam Dredging.

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No I didn't. I mentioned it explicitly, actually. It's a crutch, and you can't ask too much from it. I'm of the opinion that you already do, but that's beside the point.

If you have to rely on a single copy of a card that's hated out without much effort (grave hate, counterbalance, etc.) to make a card worthy of inclusion in your deck... it's probably not worth it. If including that card makes your whole deck depend on that single copy for its survival, then... well, that's hardly a good thing.


LFTL does a lot of work for ITF as it is, and it's very fragile in the current generic meta. If you ask it to do much more, the deck will implode.

What do you think, is Path to Exile worth a SB-Slot ?

My SB f.e. pre Conflux looks like this :

4 Tormod's Crypt
4 Blue Elemental Blast
4 Krosan Grip
2 Life from the Loam
1 Nevinyrral's Disk

I was thinking of cutting the last Disk (never needed no Dragons Stompy here anymore ;-)) and 1 Grip for 2 Path to exile...
The 2 Lifes are for the Aggro Loam, TA, Eva Green and Staxx.....they are all very popular here at the moment.

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Originally Posted by jeanbathez

What do you think, is Path to Exile worth a SB-Slot ?

My SB f.e. pre Conflux looks like this :

4 Tormod's Crypt
4 Blue Elemental Blast
4 Krosan Grip
2 Life from the Loam
1 Nevinyrral's Disk

I was thinking of cutting the last Disk (never needed no Dragons Stompy here anymore ;-)) and 1 Grip for 2 Path to exile...
The 2 Lifes are for the Aggro Loam, TA, Eva Green and Staxx.....they are all very popular here at the moment.

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I'm not sure if I like path to exile yet, mainly because In a deck like this if you used it early, then you would be giving that person tempo by giving them more lands but against some decks I really like it because it has to be a basic which can sometimes hurt someone. I'm deffinitly testing it, but not as a sideboard slot, this deck has enough creature removal as it is, it wouldn't help any matchup that we need help in.

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Originally Posted by Goaswerfraiejen

No I didn't. I mentioned it explicitly, actually. It's a crutch, and you can't ask too much from it. I'm of the opinion that you already do, but that's beside the point.

If you have to rely on a single copy of a card that's hated out without much effort (grave hate, counterbalance, etc.) to make a card worthy of inclusion in your deck... it's probably not worth it. If including that card makes your whole deck depend on that single copy for its survival, then... well, that's hardly a good thing.


LFTL does a lot of work for ITF as it is, and it's very fragile in the current generic meta. If you ask it to do much more, the deck will implode.

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If used right life from the loam is not fragile especially in this deck where it is really easy to get rid of counterbalance and be able dredge life back. The only graveyard hate that anyone has that can truly stop loam is extirpate, and that is really only used in 1 deck right now, and if they using that extirpate on loam instead of say tarmogoyf, then go right ahead and waste it.

against a couple of decks we do rely on loam to live and it works very well because we can search for it, but the decks we need it against don't have a way to remove it.

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Originally Posted by landstill101

If used right life from the loam is not fragile especially in this deck where it is really easy to get rid of counterbalance and be able dredge life back. The only graveyard hate that anyone has that can truly stop loam is extirpate, and that is really only used in 1 deck right now, and if they using that extirpate on loam instead of say tarmogoyf, then go right ahead and waste it.

against a couple of decks we do rely on loam to live and it works very well because we can search for it, but the decks we need it against don't have a way to remove it.

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I'm sorry, but I'm not sure that I understand. Your latest decklist boasted a single copy of LFTL: how is it that only Extirpate is useful against it? How is it Crypt/Relic-proof?


And for the record, I'm not saying that LftL doesn't play an important role in this deck, or that it's ineffective: most opponents have better things to do than remove a singleton Loam. My concern here is that importing Knight of the Reliquary does your opponents' work for him/her already by forcing you to somehow draw LftL through a number of potential (and common) obstacles. You have very few Forests or Plains in this deck (2 of each), and yet rely on them heavily. Adding in a creature that allows you to blow one of these four lands up in exchange for some kind of marginally useful utility-land (what, exactly, are you going to search for? ITF currently only runs Stronghold and Ruins by way of utility, and how often are you going to want to blow up the mana you need to activate them in order to lose your draw--and, therefore, lose the possibility of dredging Loam?) is just to put ridiculous demands on the card.

ITF runs very little by way of the required colour-producing lands. Its only utility-lands prevent it from using Loam as effectively as possible after making the KotR sacrifice. Its only utility lands are barely worth searching out with KotR in most scenarios. Realistically speaking, what are you going to do with this card that you can't already accomplish more efficiently?

I think that KotR is a very strong card with pretty wide applications. But it just doesn't seem like a good inclusion here. Granted, it's a (potentially) large body. Granted, it has an extra ability that might occasionally prove useful. But these pros are ephemeral, and entail far more substantive cons. I just don't see how its inclusion in this deck can be justified over cards like Tarmogoyf, Etched Oracle, or Eternal Witness. As a singleton, Witness does all the same things and more (minus beating/blocking for significant amounts). At 2+ copies, you're compromising other elements of the deck for negligible gain and tangible loss.

You can't change your post just to bash mine, you went from saying that kotr is bad(which I completly agree) to talking about how a singleton of a card is not powerful in a deck. I was commenting on the powerful and usefulness of the card in the deck as a one of, not how it works with KOTR, Don't put words in my mouth.

KOTR is horrible for this deck(I already explained this to you)

I have a question, keep in mind this is from someone with no experience with this deck. This deck seems like the only real candidate in legacy to abuse gifts ungiven. What is the reason for running 4 intuition and no gifts. 1 extra mana for an extra card and the ability to get all four in hand seems pretty strong. I know I'm missing something, but if someone could offer some insight that would be great.

One of the strengths of intution is that it gets you anything you have 3-4 of immediately...Gifts can't do that. That, and the fact that it's cheaper are both good. Realistically, cards in your graveyard are almost as useful as cards in your hand, and you have plenty of ways for card advantage already. That said, I have no experience either...But I like (trying) to answer questions.

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Originally Posted by 3duece

I have a question, keep in mind this is from someone with no experience with this deck. This deck seems like the only real candidate in legacy to abuse gifts ungiven. What is the reason for running 4 intuition and no gifts. 1 extra mana for an extra card and the ability to get all four in hand seems pretty strong. I know I'm missing something, but if someone could offer some insight that would be great.

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valtrex hit it on the nose really, it costs 1 less which is a big plus and you have the ability go so say, 3 swords or 3 goyfs or 3 counterbalance and know your going to get it, but if you need a counterspell, you can choose a force a counterspell but then 2 cards that arn't which makes gifts really bad. Speed is the main reason.

intuition lets you get copies, meaning if you REALLY need a deed, you'll get it, whereas gifts is four different cards.

Also, intuition helps with CB, as otherwise, shackles gets all of the 3cc slack (and if people play vindicate, but that's rare)

Also, i believe gifts to be sorcery, no?

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Originally Posted by Unknown2

Also, i believe gifts to be sorcery, no?

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Gifts is instant speed.

http://sales.starcitygames.com/cards...ifts%20Ungiven