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I usually would board: -1 Dark Blast, -2 Careful Study, -2 Breakthrough, + 4 Nature's Claim, +1 TerastodonQuote:
Originally Posted by Gui
I can test my Dredge against a friend of mine, which isn't the best enchantress player. So my MU is about 70%.
You must be very lucky with Cabal Therapy.
Crossposting this from my blog:
Just Got back from the SCG Open in Edison Finished 7-2 In the legacy(Playing Dredge w/ LED & sun titan), Missing top 16 on breakers(finished 19th overall).
The Dredge Deck we(me & Mark Hornung) Played was totally sweet, here's the list first and then I will talk about some of the card choices and interactions.
Creatures
1 Flame-Kin Zealot
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
3 Golgari Thug
4 Ichorid
4 Narcomoeba
4 Putrid Imp
1 Sun Titan
4 Stinkweed Imp
1 Hapless Researcher
1 Woodfall Primus
Enchantments
4 Bridge from Below
Artifacts
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
Instants
1 Firestorm
Sorceries
4 Breakthrough
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Deep Analysis
3 Dread Return
Lands
3 Cephalid Coliseum
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
Sideboard:
3 Pithing Needle
2 Firestorm
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Chain of Vapor
1 Serenity
1 Stormtide Levithian
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
So Obviously the first card that looks totally bizarre is the Sun Titan in the slot where most people just have Sphinx of Lost Truths. Sun titan does pretty much everything sphinx does and more:
a) With a mana floating/untapped land it brings back cephalid coliseum to draw 3 discard 3.
b) With no Mana floating and a Deep Analysis in the yard it brings back Lion's Eye diamond to empty your hand and flashback Deep Analysys(leaving you U to dread return titan again, after therapying it away of course, and getting coliseum, if you are digging for FKZ to win instantly)
c) Recurs Serenity out of the board every turn to get rid of annoying crap like Moat, Solitary Confinement, Ensnaring Bridge, Elephant Grass, Ghostly Prison, Propaganda, Thopter/Sword Combo, the entire Affinity deck, the entire MUD deck etc.
d) Recurs Hapless reasearcher to dredge more if you have no mana and no deep analysis in the yard.
e) Recurs Stinkweed Imp to Block and kill Emrakul if Necessary or any other annoying flyer (killed a fully leveled Coralhelm Commander at the tournament)
f) In a situation that comes up where you have 2 Bridges 2 dread returns and FKZ but are 1 zombie short of killing them(because they have blockers or whatever) Recurring Sun titan + any creature and then dread returning again for FKZ will net you 1 additional Zombie. This doesn't seem like a huge deal but it came up for me in a game against a deck with deed which made the VERY relevant despite the fact that I had alot of zombies. You can also do this if you have exactly enough Zombies to do lethal but want to therapy them first to play around a counterspell.
Anyway a non-led and very very vanilla Looking Dredge Deck top 8'd so I would perhaps be wary of playing the deck within the next couple weeks. The whole thing with dredge is that as soon as people see it around, it ceases being good. Since nearly Everyone is on Nihil Spellbomb, Tormod's Crypt, Boujouka Bog, or Loaming Shaman these days, Leyline of Sanctity should be the Anti-Hate Card of choice for your sideboards. For any Given non-combo deck I usually Sideboard 3 Needles and 4 Leylines + Alter my DR Package, I Generally Side out LED + Deep Analysis. This Gives you good "coverage" in the dark although obviously its cold to Leyline. If people are playing leyline in significant numbers you cant really fight it, you just have to play a different deck, you really need to pick your spots. I felt like I had a good read on sunday and it panned out (for the most part, my losses were to Cephalid Breakfast, which is probably just a bad match-up, and to a Team America Deck where I just ran Badly Game 1, and was "forced" to keep a good hand without anti-hate game 2 and he just had the Nihil Spellbomb to kill me) so we will see where the metagame heads, but it looks like the target should be on Various kinds of Junk/Midrange decks, NO Bant with no countertop, and "hand combo" decks like High Tide and decks trying to Emrakul people.
May Your Dredge 6 Be: Narco, Narco, Narco, Bridge, Bridge, Dread Return
-Max Brown
Sorry for all the Deleted Posts, Obviously The Forum is pretty screwed up now, as the only way to see new posts is to view the thread in reverse order. Pretty annoying.
Yeah the forum has been giving me grief as well.
Quick question... I am still debating witness vs. angel of despair in the MD as a "catch-all" answer to randomness in G1 (its my only dread return target other than GGT and FKZ). My DR targets in the side-board currently are Chosen, Terastadon (debating switching to Primus) and Iona. Any suggestions about the MD target? This is in a non-LED dredge list.
What I was considering is that Enchantress' usual grave hate is Wheel of Sun and Moon and Groundseal. Neither begin the game in the battlefield, and you are able to dredge before they come, so I think that maybe we should just go Ray of Revelation + DR target against them, and try to dredge them before they cast their hate. Also, I see that some lists uses 1 hate and tutor for it, which gives us one more turn to dredge.Quote:
Originally Posted by CabalTherapy
So, my doubt is: Is Nature's Claim really necessary against it?
For the record, I'm not considering cutting Claim from board, I always pack 4 of it, just am wondering if it is the best option, say, if I have enough slots to carry 3 ray SB.
That's a good question.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gui
I'm running currently one Ray in my SB, so I'm always going for the Claims in this matchup.
On the play, Enchantress can play these cards on Turn2, while you're just looking at you Tribe/Imp.
Enchantress has no clock, so draw and at the end of turn destroying the hate is a good play.
And then you have the space, you need, to just go off with you Coliseum or Breakthrough and punch Enchantress in tha face.
I hope that this post won't been seen as a dobblepost. :wink:
It's just a little report about a tournament I played today. (38 people)
My current list is:
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
3 Golgari Thug
3 Ichorid
4 Narcomoeba
4 Putrid Imp
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Tireless Tribe
4 Breakthrough
4 Bridge from Below
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Careful Study
1 Darkblast
2 Dread Return
4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
3 Tarnished Citadel
Sideboard:
1 Ancestor's Chosen
4 Ancient Grudge
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Dread Return
1 Flame-Kin Zealot
1 Undead Warchief
4 Nature's Claim
1 Ray of Revelation
1 Terastodon
The "big" change since the last tournament is the Iona in the MB. And it was the right decision.
(Just test this list and you will be very surprised, how consistent and fast this list is. :wink:)
Round1 against Belcher
The first game I can win with Ichorids because my opp just fizzles. The next two matches he plays first turn Belcher dealing enought damage and playing EtW for 14 token.
Mhmmhmhm...
1:2
0-1
Round2 against Aluren
He has a bad hand and I just win on turn 3 returning a Iona (green) with tokenbackup. In the second match he casts Aluren and I just putted 2 Imps, 2 Tribes, 1 Narcomoeba on the field eot while he has no creatures in hand. As he sees this, he scoops.
2:0
1-1
Round3 against SpiralTide
SpiralTide is a realy nice deck, but clearly too slow to deal with Cabal Therapy and Ichorids. I won with Iona (blue) and in the second match with regular token beatdown.
2:0
2-1
Round4 against Show and Tell feat. Natural Order
I must go for the mulligan to 5. I am on the play, going for a Therapy targeting myself (Golgari Thug). Later on I can cast a Breakthrough and find enough shit to kill him. In the second match he just played 2nd turn Show and Tell > Emrakul. :eyebrow:
I won the final match using a small space in round 4 and created too many token.
2:1
3-1
Round5 against Painter
Again a combo.dec. I can beat him down to 0 life, while he has Painter and Grindstone in play but no mana to activate the stone. In game 2 he is on 5 life, I have 10+ token and he just topdecked a Painter and activate his Grindstone (what a lucker).
In the last game I just destroyed my opp, wasting him his artifact lands with Ancient Grudge and disrupting his hand to just one land. Finally I went for Terastodon, destroying my own three lands and he scooped.
2:1
4-1
Round6 against CounterTopFoundry
He claimed that he has got a good MU in this game and got destroyed by Dredge in two matches.
Using exactly one round (it is like an open window for a thief) I resolved in game 1 Breakthrough and in game 2 Coliseum and disruped him so badly. Iona (white) was a the winner in the second match, while he had EE and Academy Ruins.
2:0
5-1
Off course I have the weakest Oppscore of the three players with 15 points. :cry:
So 3rd place. (Honour and glory?^^)
Congratz on your finish.Quote:
It's just a little report about a tournament I played today. (38 people)
My current list is:
Snap
The "big" change since the last tournament is the Iona in the MB. And it was the right decision.
(Just test this list and you will be very surprised, how consistent and fast this list is. :wink:)
I agree with the choice of Iona for the main deck. I have her as a one-of in my main for some weeks now and I've never looked back. She's just too good, even though I usually don't want to flood my main deck with DR Targets.
Your list is exactly the list I've been playing recently, just +1 Careful Study. (Yes, It's 61 cards for now as I don't know what to cut. But it works decently).
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=37283
WOW @ this decks tech. It's just insane how different this deck is. It's so different, I don't know if it is actually any good. Any thoughts?
I cannot figure out what the use of emrakul is.Am I just blind or is it just useless?Also,I cant imagine how this deck is any better than normal lists,havent tested it though.Quote:
Originally Posted by ivanpei
The list sucks and Emrakul is there against Painter Grindstone only. Though, Progenitus would probably be a better choice here, as after getting your library milled and shuffling Progenitus back in as last card you should definitely be winning the following turn. Nevertheless I find both cards to be quite useless and a waste of good sideboard space.
Well he could Stifle Emrakuls triggern and then DR it (or maybe it's his 1off solution against SnT). However I'd certainly agree with you: this list sucks.
On a side note I got a quick question for CabalTherapy: When do you side in the Undead Warchief (he kinda reminds me on Homura, Human Ascendant ) ?
Well, while Iona is in my MB I have one SB slot for something else. I decided to fill it my something that is fun and maybe can be a huge surprise in a Dredge mirror^^. It is more fun than serious but... xDQuote:
Originally Posted by Felidae
I still play the standard much consistent LED-less list with no DR-targets and I am pretty happy with it, still.
My current sb is as follows:
1 Chain of Vapor
4 Nature's Claim
4 Ancient Grudge
1 Ray of Revealation
1 Ancestors Chosen
1 Dread Return
3 additional Dread Return targets, mainly those: Iona, Terastodon, Realm Razer, Stalking Vengeance, Massacre Wurm
It really depends on the meta to choose the 3 additional Dread Return targets and to be honest I never missed the Firestorms (which I simply dont own). The last two tourneys I played the deck I made 2nd and a more mediocre 2:2 due to a bit of misplay and bad luck (variance would be a bit more accurate). I can just recommend to test out Massacre Wurm which really helps in the Goblin, Elves and Mirror. Hes just a I-come-into-play-and-directly-win-muhaha in all of those MU and I think he replaces the Firestorms pretty good (and leaves more space for other cards). A nice tech also IMO is Aura Thief which should directly win the horrible Enchantress MU, spotted it in the TOP8 of SCG's (where a really weird list made 9th).
I completely agree with Stalking Vengeance beeing one of ther most impressive cards against so much problem cards of the deck; nearly so hard that I can see cutting Terastodon completely from the board, depending on the meta.
I was wondering how good Null Rod, Leyline of Sanctity and Pithing Needle turn out as Anti-hate cards and I think that it really cant hurt to test that out intensively, maybe ending up with Leyline for Trap, Crypt, Bojuka Bog, Wheel of Sun and Moon and Needle/Null Rod for Relic and Affinity. The upside would be a better Tendrils based Storm MU (ANT; TES; DDFT) but also a lack of consistency which I really dislike in such a deck.
Greetings
What should we do against affinity? It's so much faster deck than LEDless dredge.
Board in 4 Ancient Grudge and rape them? No, seriously Raffinity is a quite bad matchup for dredge, but still very winnable with Grudges and the deck's sheer power.
I don't agree that Affinity is a bad matchup. They have less disruption than even Zoo. The only trick is not laughing hysterically when you draw a double Ancient Grudge hand.
Quoted for truth. Raffinity is not a bad matchup. Slower than Ichorid, no or almost no burn, almost no Disruption, all artifacts, I don't see the problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anusien
So let em get this straight, a new list shows up, is 1 of 2 Dredge lists that made top 16 in the past 4 major tournaments, and you dismiss it that it sucks? Ok I understand you might not like Bloodghast, but did you look at the tech this deck runs to make them FAR stronger than Ichorid, like the Oboro, Palace in the Clouds, which is wasteland proof by the way, as well as the Undiscovered Paradises that work very good? How about the Brainstorms to seal the game which are more easily played with this manabase, which seems far more resilient to the Legacy metagame atthe moment.
Another side note, I agree the Emrakul had my head rather confused, but with switching to a Stifle package, it makes sense, especially with 3 Brainstorm, 4 Careful Study, and mana that actually sticks around to cast the Stifle. I say this is obviously doing better than the rest of the lists because it placed, and had a few awesome new tech pieces like Aura Thief. Now there was some awesome new tech for the Enchantress matchup, previously near unwinnable once they get the lock out, since Iona does not stop them. It actually drew him a match in the tournament, I saw that portion of the coverage and heard about it, where he stole somewhere in the number of 17 enchantments and swung for game.
I personally like Tireless Tribe over the Trickster Mage, so it can be used immediately, but that I think is a personal call on what discard outlets you think are best. But this list looks fine, it looks solid, and doesn't rely on Ichorid making it to an Upkeep, and doesn't require a certain amount of black creature cards to be in the deck because of that, and is built to abuse the landfall mechanic of Bloodghast, which by the way IS faster than Ichorid, as in you can sac them to produce tokens before laying a land, cast draw spells to dredge more, landfall them all back in, sac them all again to Dread Return, Therapy etc, and then just win now, whereas Ichorid can only be sacrificed once a turn. Also I have been testing a similar list on my own, but without the tech of Oboro and Brainstorm, and it is consistent, I can only imagine this being more consistent, and probably faster, since Brainstorm is a massive amount of dredging for 1 blue.
Please don't dismiss new ideas, especially new ideas that place in tournaments, just because it isn't what you think it should be. Test it, try the list out, it might surprise you.
As for dealing with Affinity, this I have a LOT of experience with, it is my roommates pet deck. Ancient Grudge kind of works, Null Rod and Energy Flux work better ... a LOT better. And if you use this kind of manabase, 2 mana is not hard, so maybe Null Rod is best, which by the way, he had 3 of them. Also with Tezzeret Affinity, of which we have a much better game against (no Ravager), winning the last Open, I imagine it will gain in popularity, and I know Null Rod would basically slow the deck down to the point where we can win.
Well, I think that the Affinity matchup is actually not as easy as you think. I own and play both decks for some time now, and that means a lot of playtesting. Well, I play that matchup with my brother several times a week so to say.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anusien
The key in this matchup is Ravager. If they stick it, you usually lose. That card is a really dangerous and fast clock, combined with an easy and reusable way to nuke all your Bridges at will. I'm afraid there's no way Dredge can reliably race Ravager plus gas without Bridges. That said, Atog and Thopter Foundry (if played) are the next best cards against us.
If they don't stick Ravager, you usually win. Pre board, I'd say 85/15 for them if they have the Ravager, 80/20 for you if they don't. Hint: Therapy that beast away ! (which can be hard if they drop it turn 1 or 2)
Post board it's a bit easier due to Ancient Grudges and maybe Firestorm. But you should never underestimate them. Etched Champion is another threat, which isn't hit by Grudge/Firestorm. Don't let that guy get Modular counters. You might say that you can therapy away everything before it gets dangerous, but remember that Affinity usually has 3-4 pieces of grave hate in form of artifacts to slow you down.
Post board, The match is pretty even, with a slight advantage for Dredge.
Affinity is becoming a real powerhouse. It can constantly beat everything but Storm.
"Post board, The match is pretty even, with a slight advantage for Dredge.
Affinity is becoming a real powerhouse. It can constantly beat everything but Storm. "
True in all points IMO. Its NOT an easy one.
In general, I think that judging the Top 16 list unworthy is a bit overeager. I havent playtested it so I said its weird (which it is, no offense included). I wouldnt be too surprised that its not bad at all afterall. Another important factor is that the American Meta is more than slightly different from the meta in other countries. Watching SCG'S live stream, I heard the following sentence: "GY hate is so much overrated in Legacy." I mean, woot?!? This wasnt ment for kidding, it was ment srsly. Seems like GY-based decks arent such a big part of the meta over there, havent analyzed the sb's to see how much they put into their sb for GY-hate. Not saying that inconsistent lists can win easier, just sayin... .
@edgarps: Speaking from my point of view I really don't like the list because it lacks the consistence that a regular list (like the one CT posted) has accomplished around the time. We have tested Brainstorm as well as Bloodghast + Paradise and we came to the conclusion that they are weaker then Citadell and Breakthrough / Study. Both aren't new ideas and browing those 1200 pages you'll find them for sure, as well as there pros/ cons.
On a sidenote I just finished 1st at a small local tournament,beating Spanish Inquisition, WW and Dreadstill , while losing to Team America.
@CabalTherapy
I like very much the standard list, which is the one you play without Iona, and I was going to try Iona as only DR target. Nice to know it worked =)
@I am the brainwasher
Nice options of DR targets there ^^
I like Aura Thief tech, although I don't know how impressive it is against enchantress yet, since they will still have their lands, enchanted with their accelerators, and probably their argothians as well... we still need to be faster than their hate too...
Massacre wurm seems fun, although you could probably use Havoc Demon there and kill everything, even with lords online ^^
Sorry, was testing to see whether my message vanished.
Blake McCracken (UNLEASH MCCRACKEN) didn't even run Ravager. Or Atog. Or Thopter Foundry.
They can kill your Bridges, but they can't beat a giant Troll.
Serenity beats Affinity and Enchantress.
That dredge deck was doing something right. I was also at the 5k in dallas. Did pretty bad running parcher dredge. Led list with hypnos. I really don't like how the led ichorid list seems to beat itself before the game starts. I know I'm gonna shuffle ujp the bloodghast list..
I'm playing a 4x Ichorid/3x Careful Study/1 DR target build without LED - I already play 4x Breakthrough, and I was considering to maximize Study, too. Do you think going down to 3x Ichorids is an acceptable choice? Also, since Survival took the banhammer, I felt like 2x Ray of Revelation in sb were unnecessary: should I play a singleton Ray and make room for the 4th Ichorid, in case my opponent plays StP/I need to slowroll my opponent (or in case my only maindeck DR target, Iona, is a suboptimal choice in a given matchup)?
P.S. - Hypothetically speaking, with the exception of fast decks (Burn/Storm/Belcher/Spring Tide), should I take out Breakthrough, g2/g3? Those are, for obvious reasons, the most difficult games to play: since a good hand should have a discard outlet, a dredger and a (gold) land, and g2 is sometimes a war of attrition, isn't the ability to sculpt your hand and not be totally cold to a Relic worth the trade-off of losing a fast and cheap gamebreaker? I'm simply asking this because of Gaddock Teeg and because sometimes I hate when my only discard outlet is a Breakthrough, and taking mulligans will only worsen the situation. Thanks in advance.
Anyway, 3 Dredge in SCG LA T16. Voltron, time to Sleeve up that foil dredge deck. I'm gonna do the same too. :)
3 in top 16 and 1 in top 8... get your trolls ready,Elias.Quote:
Originally Posted by ivanpei
What do you think about their lists?
http://thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=5833
The T8 one is the one that looks more like the one most regularly played, but runs only 9 gold lands, with paradise, and cuts Therapy instead of Study, probably because he needs the blue discard to work, since his 13 lands can produce U...
Also, 4 Ichorids... is that necessary?
4 Ichorid seems excessive, but he is running 3 Thugs which is 1-2 more than I usually run. You'll see 4 Ichorid in Vintage because it's a free creature against Workshop decks, but it's pretty unusual in Legacy Dredge. I don't particularly like it because they end up eating your black dredgers too soon (or else just sit in the yard). If I've got Ichorid in the yard, I want him coming out every turn. But what do I know, I didn't Top8 a SCG event with the deck ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Gui
I wouldnt overestimate dredge in general atm and to be honest, the last SCG top16 is maybe the most meaningless I've seen in a long time. IMO it just shows up that all kind of rather unusual decks can perform pretty well due to the fact that a lot of people do play those non-standard decks and that it is really easy for those to sneak through unprepared opponents and more important, sideboards.
When you cant hate dredge (and even if you can, but with not enough cards) you simply loose against experienced players and looking at the boards of famous players like bertoncini, many dont care much about the opposing graveyard AT ALL. Cephalid Breakfast made easily top 8 which is just nuked by GY-hate, plus 3 dredge decks and this has a reason, just sayin'.
As long as the big variety of the meta continues and it isnt clear against which deck to prepare for and build a solid sb, its maybe just the best time for having success with Dredge. I am aware that Dredge is quite powerful, thats the reason I play it by myself here and there on tourneys, but at least when more players recognize that a lot of decks just go completely bonkers without the right hate (like Dredge and also Affinity), there will be more answers and more players who do know how to rip apart the opposing deck quite effective.
To make that clear, I am a huge fan of the way legacy is going right now, but just looking at Top 16 doesnt imply that all the decks you see really "deserve" their place there outside this particular event. The best example might be the 8th round where Painted Stone won against UG-Madness, jeez, did anyone saw that? I still cant believe that he lost that and Painted Stone took it down in the end, just my 2 cents.
Greetings!
PS: That new card which was presented by wizards from New Phyrexia (I would have liked Mirrodin Pure a lot more) looks decent as a DR target, doesnt it?
I haven't seen it, could you link or at least tell those of us who have been unable to look it up at work what said card is?Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the brainwasher
Since I am a complete computer noob and have no clue about showing pics here, I just describe it:
5WW
Legendary Creature - ???
Other creatures you control get +2/+2.
Creatures your opponent controls get -2/-2.
5/7
Dunno the creature type and name, p/t should be correct.
Not as good as FKZ since it doesn't give haste. And that's really the only slot it fits in. The other DR targets have utility (blow stuff up, gain life, lockout, etc.) that Elesh Norn doesn't quite have. -2/-2 doesn't really do much against most of Legacy when compared to our other options, and if it does kill some of their dudes -- there go our Bridges.
I'm with you, though -- one of the fun things about each new set for a Drege player is looking for new DR targets :)
Wouldn't you actually say that sleeving up Dredge after a top 16 with 5 graveyard combo decks is a bad idea? I think I would... its pretty likely that people will have more hate for the next couple events.Quote:
Originally Posted by ivanpei
Anyway, I'm glad the deck did well; I've always thought it was better than the 40% win percentage it kept posting. I ran graveyard hate in my Elves deck last weekend in anticipation of Dredge.
Still, there are some weird design decisions in a few of those lists. Some have too few lands, and Bloodghast just seems worse to me than Ichorid most of the time in Legacy, but I suppose it depends on the make-up of the metagame to some extent.
That's not bad, it's like Crovax on steroids but it effects all your creatures instead of white/non-white. There's the obvious "it kills our bridges" argument but if you're reanimating that thing, you should be at a point that your bridges don't matter. At what point though are we going to want this? I'm seeing the same problem with this guy that I see with Massacre Wurm... they both clear the way (Wurm depending on the match might win you the game outright from time to time) but assuming this is in the board.. are either of these any better than just reanimating FKZ with a horde of zombies and swinging for lethal?Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the brainwasher
Not trying to be "that guy"... it just seems to me like FKZ gets you there this turn, while Wurm and this guy set you up for next turn.
Also- sniped by a guy above me, but i'm going to finish this post anyways.
I didnt ment to play it as a dread return target in the maindeck, which is just a complete overkill IMO.
As said before, I play Massacre Wurm atm and I am pretty happy with it in the sb and think now about replacing it with Elesh Norn because it is just amazing in the MU where Massacre Wurm comes in. Shutting your opponent entirely off of creatures while pushing the remaining guys and Ichorids/Narcomoebas is huge against Goblins, Merfolk, Elves! and all kind of decks with just bananas (D&T, Faeries) and is just GG while playing the Mirror because this should be a devastating boardcontrol.
If it is necessary in your list is part of your decision, playing Firestorms is fine as well IMO but I really like DR boards.
Well, I guess that's my sticking point. I play no maindeck return targets and I only play 2 DR targets in my board (Zealot and Chosen).
I played against an AggroElves match this past weekend (25 people, 4-1, cut to top 4 and split) and in the games against elves, not once did I wish I had a Wurm to sweep his board... but he also had enough lords that I don't think the Wurm would have got there. He smoked me game 1 as I had terrible dredges, game 2 I blew my firestorm too early (misplay on my part) and ended up having to reuse my ichorids and therapies every turn to make blockers to survive his alpha at 4 life. I had chosen in my yard but needed 1 narco off the next dredge to DR it.. my dredge flpped the narco, zealot, and my 4th bridge. Game. My 3rd game I kept a loose hand of 2 lands, 3 dredgers, firestorm, breakthrough. I say loose because I had no permanent discard outlet, but i figured the firestorm should be enough and breakthrough would get me there... The game went like this:
Him: Forest, Elf go.
me: Rip Pimp. Land, Pimp, Go.
him: land, 3/3 deathtoucher, go
me: eot discard GGT, dredge 2 bridges, troll, narco, narco, DR. Pitch my dredgers, cast breakthrough, and my first dredge flipped over another bridge, narco, and FKZ. GG turn 2.
To be fair, I haven't had to play goblins in a while, so I could see the merits of Norn or the Wurm in that matchup, but it was very unpopular in my meta for a while and is just now starting to be prevelant again. I'll give both cards a fewplay tests and see how I like it out of the board, I just don't see how it's not better to get the FKZ and, as above, just win.