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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dahcmai
Out of the new set, I figure these are your hot tickets.
Inkmoth Nexus - Because the Humility/Elspeth interaction is just too good. Plus it's actually good in standard.
Tezz - He's ten thousand times better than people give it credit for. I actually expect him to match Jace.
Foil Go for the Throat - It's just a good staple from here on out.
Foil Steel Sabotage - It's a good card that will eventually get a good use and you'll regret not getting them cheap now.
My biggest expected mover is an older card. Transmute Artifact. I am waiting for it. It's a damned good tutor that people haven't seemed to have caught onto yet. The errata changed on it quietly. It's much better now.
I think Nexus is a Contructed only card. The interaction with Elspeth may be playable, but I don't think it's tier 1 and I certainly don't think it's strong enough to hold the card at the $15 it currently goes for after it rotates out of Extended. Contrast it with Mutavault which is currently still in Extended and still barely holding at $15.
Tezz, I hope he's not the next Jace but I think after Jace rotates he might be. I don't think he has the Legacy playability of Jace though since you have to build the deck around him.
Go For The Throat- I agree it's probably worth picking up and will probably go up from where it is now, but I get the feeling it will get reprinted at some point since it was given such a generic name and it still fits the Terror 2.0 model that black removal is moving to.
Steel Sabotage- I agree this card will find it's place eventually most likely in Vintage where Annul still sees play from time to time and SS is just way better since artifacts are 100x more played than enchantments.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
I think everyone should keep an eye on Null Rod, if MUD becomes a popular deck in legacy then that thing will jump a lot.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nessaja
I think everyone should keep an eye on
Null Rod, if MUD becomes a popular deck in legacy then that thing will jump a lot.
I've been advocating the use of Null Rod in sideboards for years now. People still haven't cought on.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dontbiteitholmes
Steel Sabotage- I agree this card will find it's place eventually most likely in Vintage where Annul still sees play from time to time and SS is just way better since artifacts are 100x more played than enchantments.
Oath of druids would like a word with you
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
He exaggerated but the point remains, vintage decks pretty much either have 0 or 4 enchantments. The majority of all vintage decks have between 8 and 42 artifacts.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by dahcmai
My biggest expected mover is an older card. Transmute Artifact. I am waiting for it. It's a damned good tutor that people haven't seemed to have caught onto yet. The errata changed on it quietly. It's much better now.
You can use it as an Entomb for an artifact. Very handy with Goblin Welder. But I am presuming you mean the sacrifice is not a cost bit. That is a nice bonus. Good call!
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
conboy31
He exaggerated but the point remains, vintage decks pretty much either have 0 or 4 enchantments. The majority of all vintage decks have between 8 and 42 artifacts.
Steel sabotage is underwhelming. It's only use is in TPS so generate storm, but then repeal is much much better.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bruizar
Steel sabotage is underwhelming. It's only use is in TPS so generate storm, but then repeal is much much better.
In my opinion it will see play in U based control. Fish too will love it.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kiblast
In my opinion it will see play in U based control. Fish too will love it.
Tell me which artifact you'll bounce.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
I don't play very much fish aside for testing purposes but: DSC, BSC, Metal Worker, Lodestone Golem, Memory Jar in response to a draw 7, vault or key to buy a turn, hellkite when shops opens the dream of workshop + lotus, among other things....
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bruizar
Tell me which artifact you'll bounce.
Easily Time vault in resp to activation to save your ass one turn, or if you menaged to tutor/find/draw a FoW, to counter it when your opponent tries to cast it.
Also preventing yourself to die from Mana Crypt seems pretty obvious.
Personally I'm running it in 1x maindeck in my Jacerator (not a true Jacerator, various slots change) list, and 1 more in SB. Keep in mind that this little gem doesn't only bounce, but counters too. And since I'm running full 5 Waste/Strip, I love to counter Lotus or Moxes to keep opponent in denial/low resources.
Also bounces some Tinker Robots. I think it's fair.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
I figured Steel Sabotage as one of those cards like Repeal. Repeal isn't a heavy mover or some super rare, but it's fairly expensive compared to a lot of foil commons despite it's limited usage. It's one of those commons that if you want to pimp it out later, you will pay for it. Much more than if you got them now. Best example I could think of. SS isn't a format shaker by any means, but it's got it's uses. It's mana cost practically demands it will be used from here on out in some form or another when those pesky artifact creature or enchantment decks pop up.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dahcmai
It's mana cost practically demands it will be used from here on out in some form or another when those pesky artifact creature or enchantment decks pop up.
If you are referring to Legacy, it will hardly see use. Its natural place is Vintage.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kiblast
If you are referring to Legacy, it will hardly see use. Its natural place is Vintage.
I see SS being used in Legacy more than in Vintage. The power level of SS is simply too low. In Vintage, you want mass-artifact bounce (Hurkyll's Recall or Rebuild), or you want something that cantrips (Repeal). Steel Sabotage has utility, but not the kind of utility you want. I would much rather have Spell Snare. Spell Snare counters Sphere of Resistence, Thorn of Amethyst, Oath of Druids, Time Vault, Hurkyll's Recall, Mana Drain, Demonic Tutor, and a shit ton of other cards. Steel Sabotage counters a mox or time vault, or 1 of 60 permanents from workshop.dec (They will outmuscle you with permanent war unless you have mass bounce). Even if the odd chance you can bounce a BSC occurs too frequently, people will simply start playing Inkwell Leviathan again.
Steel Sabotage in legacy can atleast reset aether vials or counter them, or screw mox diamonds, or counter LED, or bounce an equipment (Not SOFI).
I'm not saying it will see play in legacy, because it won't. But I will say that it would see play in legacy sooner than in vintage.
EDIT: If it was Brown Elemental Blast, the card would be good. Against Mox Diamond and Aether Vial, it is a Brown Elemental Blast. This is why I see the card for legacy before I see it for Vintage
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bruizar
I see SS being used in Legacy more than in Vintage. The power level of SS is simply too low. In Vintage, you want mass-artifact bounce (Hurkyll's Recall or Rebuild), or you want something that cantrips (Repeal). Steel Sabotage has utility, but not the kind of utility you want. I would much rather have Spell Snare. Spell Snare counters Sphere of Resistence, Thorn of Amethyst, Oath of Druids, Time Vault, Hurkyll's Recall, Mana Drain, Demonic Tutor, and a shit ton of other cards. Steel Sabotage counters a mox or time vault, or 1 of 60 permanents from workshop.dec (They will outmuscle you with permanent war unless you have mass bounce). Even if the odd chance you can bounce a BSC occurs too frequently, people will simply start playing Inkwell Leviathan again.
Steel Sabotage in legacy can atleast reset aether vials or counter them, or screw mox diamonds, or counter LED, or bounce an equipment (Not SOFI).
I'm not saying it will see play in legacy, because it won't. But I will say that it would see play in legacy sooner than in vintage.
EDIT: If it was Brown Elemental Blast, the card would be good. Against Mox Diamond and Aether Vial, it is a Brown Elemental Blast. This is why I see the card for legacy before I see it for Vintage
Yeah, but if your plan against Merfolk is resetting their Vial, and your plan to combat Loam is bouncing their Mox, you're doing it wrong. Bouncing a Mox It's hardly something gamebreaking, I'd say it's a really underwhelming plan. I think it's useless to run SS in legacy sideboard: the best things you can board in Legacy to fight artifacts iare still Kataki / Energy Flux / EE. For Vintage, I am not saying that SS> Hurkyl's or Rebuild, it is just an interesting different take on the ''artifact bounce'' theme, but with a bonus.Hurkyl's and Rebuild just delays your problem 1 turn (I'm not taking in consideration TPS where they can abuse bouncers to generate mana and storm count) while this card offers the possibility of countering too. In certain MU's it's obvious that mass bouncers are better, but SS could be a nice generic answer to artifact threats.Moreover, I can't see how can you compare it to Spell Snare, which is a totally different card that accomplishes different task.
I'm not advocating it's use in 4x in each blue based control deck you can build, I'm just saying it's good and I think it will be played, maybe as a 1 of or 1/1 split main/side.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Does anyone know a site where I can get cheaper Grim Monolith? I can't justify the $25+ pricetag Ebay sellers have. I'm looking for between $15-20.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
(nameless one)
does anyone know a site where i can get cheaper grim monolith? I can't justify the $25+ pricetag ebay sellers have. I'm looking for between $15-20.
Motl.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Just do what I do. Set up a bot to bid on every Grim Monolith that comes up until a certain price. Eventually, you get one for the price you want. It's a perfect trick for pre-orders too. It's built into Ebay, I can give a link on how to do it if you like, though you should be able to find it in the help part easily.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
(nameless one)
Does anyone know a site where I can get cheaper Grim Monolith? I can't justify the $25+ pricetag Ebay sellers have. I'm looking for between $15-20.
StarCityGames.com has Grim Monoliths at $18.99 for SP condition - http://sales.starcitygames.com/searc...0&Go.y=0&Go=Go
- BB
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Consensus on the Mana Drain is that Steel Sabotage is a very good card, and will see alot of play. The issue is that MUD decks are very prevailent in the format right now and are definitely the deck to beat. Steel Sabotage only costs 1 mana, which is far better very 13 SPhere+Wire.dec that any mass boucne spells. Being able to counter early spheres and Lodestone Golems is key in that matchup, or you just get to a point where you can't cast spells at all. It's also very maindeckable, unlike Annul, because it lets you bounce Tinker robots, which are one of the most common wincons in the format. Repeal is useless vs modern builds of Vintage MUD, and obviously useless vs Tinker robots as well. It's the real deal, and Foils should go for a really good premium eventually.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
You have to think about that card in the abstract and not just "what can I jam this in that seems good". It's one mana, counters or bounces an artifact. For that effect, there's never going to be a cheaper cost card that does the same thing, ever. The only thing that can actually make it better is literally Brown Elemental Blast. You may not see a use for it now, but the numbers on the card alone say it has a use from here on out. It's hard to top it.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dahcmai
You have to think about that card in the abstract and not just "what can I jam this in that seems good". It's one mana, counters or bounces an artifact. For that effect, there's never going to be a cheaper cost card that does the same thing, ever. The only thing that can actually make it better is literally Brown Elemental Blast. You may not see a use for it now, but the numbers on the card alone say it has a use from here on out. It's hard to top it.
Hey guys,
I'm wondering on opinions for Inkmoth Nexus. Currently he's in Chapin's Tezz 2.0 decklist. looks pretty strong, but due to being quite a narrow card, will he still hold $10+ value given that it's a rare? However, playing with Inkmoth Nexus has shown that it's a really strong card, even in control decklists, just by itself, without having the need to be paired with other cards.
How much do you guys think foil copies will settle? Anyway else also noticed that korean Mox Diamonds have fallen down in price the past 1-2 months? They're now well under $70 for completed auctions (EX- to EX+ conditions)
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
I was wondering the other day, am I the only one that thinks that Sacrecrone is criminally undervalued at $1? He is so good, not necessarily in Legacy, but certainly in many EDH decks.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr.C
I was wondering the other day, am I the only one that thinks that Sacrecrone is criminally undervalued at $1? He is so good, not necessarily in Legacy, but certainly in many EDH decks.
What card?
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Scarecrone.
Sadly, I don't think much will be said for this card. I can kinda reanimate Blightsteel with the trigger on the stack, but it seems a very roundabout way to getting Blightsteel into play when Master Transmuter is available in Extended.
I've thought of Scarecrone as a source of card advantage in Legacy MUD decks, but sadly it doesn't cut it. :3: for a 1/2 body and :1: to draw a card, I would be better off running Bottled Cloister. EDH-wise, he is only really played in decks with an artifact focus i.e. Karn, Sharuum, Arcum Dagson.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
He's actually doing pretty good today, $1.49 for an Unplayed. You might wanna grab a set now cause its going to jump probably somewhere near the $2 mark in the next what 5 years?
In other news:
OMG, anybody saw that Candelabra just sold for $110!!
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Metalwalker
Sadly, I don't think much will be said for this card. I can kinda reanimate Blightsteel with the trigger on the stack, but it seems a very roundabout way to getting Blightsteel into play when Master Transmuter is available in Extended.
Blightsteel Colossus does not have a trigger.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
death
In other news:
OMG, anybody saw that Candelabra just sold for $110!!
Ahhh. I passed on a pair for 50$ each a couple of weeks ago...
This is getting out of hand!
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
death
He's actually doing pretty good today, $1.49 for an Unplayed. You might wanna grab a set now cause its going to jump probably somewhere near the $2 mark in the next what 5 years?
In other news:
OMG, anybody saw that Candelabra just sold for $110!!
Awesome! Hopefully I will soon be able to trade my two excess Candelabras for, I dunno, better cards and stuff.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr.C
Awesome! Hopefully I will soon be able to trade my two excess Candelabras for, I dunno, better cards and stuff.
Now it's time to sell them or trade them. Before the hype vanishes.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Any reason why Candelabras are quickly rising in value? I know it's not for Legacy. I've never seen it played in this format.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Justin
Any reason why Candelabras are quickly rising in value? I know it's not for Legacy. I've never seen it played in this format.
A deck with Cloudpost / Vesuva to power out Eldrazi.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
I have to give credit to Turbo-Drazi for candelabra's $75-100 price tag. I also have to say, it is High Tide that's going to push this card to $200 mark. That is, once the public affirms "my list" is the real deal.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
There's a 3 color high Tide deck list floating around using it which probably accounts for it the most. It's much faster than the normals lists you see in these forums.
A friend was trying to borrow them from me for the deck, though I have them in a Sorrow's path fun deck of all places. lol
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kiblast
Now it's time to sell them or trade them. Before the hype vanishes.
Oh, right, like Loyal Retainers, which are $30 again? :p
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
uhm, no thanks I'd rather take the 400 bucks. lol
EDIT:
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Good for you. Now sell them.
I'm not saying Spiral Tide is terrible, I just don't see it taking first place at...well...anywhere. It's stupid that these are so expensive now, but hey, it's semi-playable and old in Legacy, it's not $70+.
Speaking of Loyal Retainers, they're only still $130 because the people that bought them before Survival got banned aren't going to let them go for peanuts compared to what they paid for them, they'll just have them rot in their binders until the end of time.
-Matt
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
My Loyal Retainers is going into my "casual" deck. I have a feeling I'm going to have fun reanimating Captain Sisay.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
I don't think its the perfect time to sell Candelabra's. Scarcity alone will make this card stay at the current prices, and if High Tide or Eldrazi.cloudpost breaks into top 8 of SCG or some other bigger tournament (like Bazaar of Moxen for example) it'll go through the roof, fetching $150+.
I wouldn't compare it to Loyal retainers simply due to fact that Retainers aren't played anywhere anymore, and that coupled with absolutely zero demand and zero transactions lately make it one of those artificially overpriced cards that don't move at all... If you need to compare Candelabra to something, compare it to Imperial Recruiter. It was always expensive card due to being played in some tier 2 decks, but when some of the pro's tried to push it in Aluren last year it reached its current price and is still up there.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pippin
I don't think its the perfect time to sell Candelabra's. Scarcity alone will make this card stay at the current prices, and if High Tide or Eldrazi.cloudpost breaks into top 8 of SCG or some other bigger tournament (like Bazaar of Moxen for example) it'll go through the roof, fetching $150+.
I wouldn't compare it to Loyal retainers simply due to fact that Retainers aren't played anywhere anymore, and that coupled with absolutely zero demand and zero transactions lately make it one of those artificially overpriced cards that don't move at all... If you need to compare Candelabra to something, compare it to Imperial Recruiter. It was always expensive card due to being played in some tier 2 decks, but when some of the pro's tried to push it in Aluren last year it reached its current price and is still up there.
Recruiters are not 150$ for Aluren, but for Imperial Painter. Aluren is really underplayed at the moment at least in its Rec Version.
Do you realize that you are predicting Candelabra to go for the same price of 2 Jaces? and do you realize the immense gap of power between those 2 cards? Sure Candelabra could fetch 150$+ if some deck using it wins some big tournament, but I don't think it's worth even the half of that price. Also is very unlikely that something like High Tide wins BoM.Sure, the deck has got some nice results, like a couple of top16 at 150-200 ppl tournaments, but it's not Survival. And in Italy this January an High Tide top8ed a 116 people tournament without any Candelabra in it (but with singleton Trade Routes ^^). So, please realize that while this deck is good, Candelabra's price is 75% Hype. So sell yours now that they're 80$ each. And buy some Jaces or duals instead :).
