If you want to go for the intuition package with rites, add 1 Gigapede. Belongs to veteran explorer type decks imo though.Quote:
Originally Posted by rxavage
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If you want to go for the intuition package with rites, add 1 Gigapede. Belongs to veteran explorer type decks imo though.Quote:
Originally Posted by rxavage
I mean its really not that cool and it doesn't fit with my gameplan. I'm just used to slapping down cheat Griselbrands.Quote:
Originally Posted by bruizar
On the topic of Esper Blade, I'm currently fiddling around with the following list. It's far from done and I don't even know if I like it yet, but let's discuss anyway.
22 lands
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Jotun Grunt
4 Squadron Hawk
1 Umezawa's Jitte / Sword of War and Peace / Body and Mind / Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull
4 Brainstorm
1 Counterspell
3 Force of Will
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Spell Snare
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Cabal Therapy
1 Vindicate
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
There are several notable differences with other esperblade decks:
Squadron Hawk instead of Lingering Souls, because:
Squadron Hawk comes down earlier
Squadron Hawk fuels Brainstorm
Squadron Hawk fuels turn 2 flashback Cabal Therapy
Squadron Hawk fuels Jace
Squadron Hawk connects with equipment
Squadron Hawk is immune to Terminus and Swords to Plowshares
Squadron Hawk doesn't care about Vendillion Clique or Delver
Jotun Grunt because:
Jotun Grunt costs 1W, just like Batterskull
Jotun Grunt is a good beatstick
Jotun Grunt shrinks Mongoose, Knight of the Reliquary and Tarmogoyf
Jotun Grunt puts back dead Hawks, which are searched for very soon
Jotun Grunt is maindeck graveyard hate
Jotun Grunt messes with Snapcaster Mages
Jotun Grunt survives a lightning bolt
Cabal Therapy over Thoughtseize because:
Snapcaster into Thoughtseize is a waste of Snapcaster's ability
Snapcaster into something else, flashbacking Cabal Therapy gives you much more value
Cabal Therapy is great with Squadron Hawk, because it also leaves you with a hand that's set up to abuse Brainstorm or Jace, more therapies, an evasive body for equipment, or chumpfood
Cabal Therapy hits everything and doesnt cost life
Cabal Therapy sacrificing a Jotun Grunt which is on the way out is a good use of your resources
Early Flashback Therapy is important against combo decks that put you on a fast clock
Double use without Snapcaster Mage means that you have a higher density of discard effects in your deck.
I'd like to play Engineered Explosives in the deck, but I don't really have the space right now. If I can find space for 2 E.E.'s I think I should have a very reasonable game 1 chance against RUG, Maverick and UW Miracles. Also testing out Sword of War and Peace as it gives protection against Entreat the Angels tokens, plowshares, bolts and knights, but also gives me the ability to race really fast and gain life at the same time. Squadron Hawks help fill up my hand to increase the amount of Life I gain with it.
What do you guys think?
I don't think Lingering Souls is particularly good right now and it's generally more powerful than Hawks. This deck already has a lot of CA. You don't want to waste turns durdling with Hawks, or Land Tax, or any other mediocre CA engine. Jace is all the late game engine you need. Hawks have nice synergy with BS, Jace, Grunts, or equipment, but they don't do anything on their own.
If you need more engine, run more Jace. Jace is CA, disruption, and wincon in one package... but I think as recent lists are showing, the problem isn't how to win as much as it is reaching the late game to win. Cutting Jaces and Cliques in favor of more early disruption helps us reach the late game where we will generally dominate.
Grunts are probably not as good as you want them to be, and will come back to bite you more times than you'd like with their bad Snapcaster synergy. If you want ways to abuse Cabal Therapy, Lingering Souls is much more efficient than Hawks (or Hawks + Grunts).
Looking at your list and what you're trying to do, my suggestion would be to cut Grunts, Hawks, and Spell Snare for 3 Lingering Soul, the 4th FoW, the 4th Snapcaster, and 2 EE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzra
I don't think this deck wants to cast 4 1/1's in a row. Lingering souls is just that, but this is not true for hawk. The way I pilot it is that I will only cast hawk if I have:
1) therapy in graveyard
2) brainstorm in hand
3) equipment on the table
4) jace on the table
5) vendillion clique / delver / entreat / tombstalker staring down at me
6) fill up hand after terminus
Otherwise there really is no strategic reason to cast the spell. Preferably you want to play it when at least 2 situations occur at the same time. The idea of plyaing Mesa Pegasus is not that appealing but when you understand how versatile it is and how it assists you in the plan you try to accomplish its more than a Mesa Pegasus.
Putting this card in the same league as lingering souls is somewhat faulty, because hawks have very unique utility, much different then lingering souls.
You are def. right about the spell snare and I still have to play test grunt before I can say anything about that card. On paper it seems strong against rug though, but I can see what you mean with grunt eating Snapcaster targets or dying a turn too quick.
Can you explain what you mean by this? You don' t have to flashback LS as soon as you can (unless you're playing against Surgical/Extirpate, in which case you may not want to cast LS at all until you can cast and flashback before passing priority).Quote:
Originally Posted by bruizar
Except for the above situation, you typically cast LS when you:
(a) Want 2 power in the air to fend off an Insectile Aberration
(b) Have a Jitte on its way.
(c) Need to defend/attack a Jace.
(d) Need to break a groundstall.
I'm pretty conservative about flashing them back (too conservative: sometimes I forget I even have it in my yard). If you flash back for no good reason, you're more susceptible to EE/Deed/Pulse/Echoing Truth.
If you can get 4 flying 1/1s out of 1 card and 5 mana, that doesn't seem worse than being able to get 4 flying 1/1s out of 1+ cards and 6 mana. LS is also pseudo-uncounterable as well semi-immune to discard effects (that is, it can be countered or discarded, but still useful), and since it's literally 1 card, the theoretical maximum number of flying 1/1s you can get is much higher. Obviously, the drawback is that, if you're lucky, Hawks can be recycled continuously, whereas if you're flashing back LS, that's not the case (although you can always recycle them with Jotun Grunt too).
I will admit that Squadron Hawk's synergy with Jotun Grunt is interesting, but I wonder how often that really helps you out much.
Has anyone tried Bitterblossom over Lingering Souls?
What I meant is that I see Lingering Souls as a card with very little non-aggro utility. The best non-aggro utility I can think of is that it can protect your Jace, the Mind Sculptor. Squadron Hawk has merits as a non-aggro card. Before I explain this, I will describe my thought process.Quote:
Originally Posted by matunos
Assumption #1
First off, the assumption is that multiple 1-CC discard spells are a good way to disrupt the best decks in the format. Combined with efficient counterspells, spot removal and a clock, you have a deck that should be able to win against all types of decks. Let's zoom in on discard spells: 2 cards are very popular right now. Inquisition of Kozilek and Thoughtseize. There is also Hymn to Tourach and Cabal Therapy, but they see less play and are usually not included in Esperblade. A common play in Esperblade is Snapcaster Mage flashbacking Inquisition of Kozilek or Thoughtseize. I think many of us will agree that this is a pretty strong play, excluding weird scenarios against Reanimator or Dredge.
Assumption #2
Another assumption is that Snapcaster Mage is a really good card. It helps you get a lot of value out of your cards and rewards you for playing many different types of cheap instants and sorceries, instead of running 4 of every type. The more diverse your deck, the better Snapcaster Mage becomes, because you will have a bigger selection available. That said, playing with a diverse deck inherently makes it less consistent, so it is better to play with only the best instants and sorceries instead.
Assumption #3
This brings us to another assumption: The best cards in legacy are: Swords to Plowshares and Brainstorm. Swords to Plowshares is the cheapest way to get rid of creatures, and Legacy is a creature format (despite the recent GP win from Storm combo). If you want to kill creatures, Swords to Plowshares is the best option available in the card pool. Brainstorm is the reason why blue decks tend to win. They have more consistent draws due to selection, and, like Snapcaster Mage, Brainstorm too rewards you for playing situational cards. This is because you can shuffle them away in exchange for more relevant cards, and thus give you answers against a more diverse range of archetypes.
So I've now concluded that we want to play with Snapcaster Mage, Brainstorm and Swords to Plowshares. But, I've also concluded that the common play Snapcaster Mage flashing back a discard spell is very good. What we actually want to do is use our Snapcaster Mage to play the 2 best cards in legacy, namely Brainstorm or Swords to Plowshares, but if we're spending it on Thoughtseize or IoK, we can't do that anymore.
So, the question right now is, is there a way to get the extra discard without having to sacrifice the ability of Snapcaster Mage to do so? Yes, Cabal Therapy does this. With minimal extra effort, we can use Cabal Therapy as discard. We do this by sacrificing one of our creatures that has already provided us with its value because of the 'enters the battlefield' effect. This could be Vendillion Clique, Snapcaster Mage or Squadron Hawk. We don't want to do this to something like Lingering Souls, because without an 'enters the battlefield' effect, you will not have gained anything outside of the Cabal Therapy effect.
So now we've determined that Brainstorm, Swords to Plowshares, Snapcaster Mage and Cabal Therapy are good. We can't forget that flashing back Cabal Therapy is conditional and we aren't running that many creatures. There is a way to improve the consistency of Cabal Therapy and to greatly increase the strength of our best card in the game: Brainstorm. This is Squadron Hawk.
Conclusion
In short: I believe that Cabal Therapy is a much more elegant way to do the same thing as Thoughtseize/Inquisition of Kozilek. It frees up your Snapcaster Mages for Swords to Plowshares and Brainstorm, but it requires a little more creature dense deck.
Flashbacking a Cabal Therapy with a Squadron Hawk is very similar to casting Inquisition of Kozilek or Thoughtseize from a Snapcaster Mage, but Squadron Hawk sets you up for a broken Brainstorm, which helps you get control over the game better than Snapcaster Mage if all you're using it to flashback discard. What is important though, is that if you can save your Snapcaster Mage because you are using Squadron Hawk as the discarder, you can use the Snapcaster Mage to cast Brainstorm, which will immediately be more impactful than otherwise because you are putting back 2 Squadron Hawks. Snapcaster Mage and Squadron Hawk have synergy in this setup.
In addition to these non-aggro utilities, Squadron Hawk provides many of the same aggro-utilities as Lingering Souls, such as evasion+equip, small army, cannonfodder. Lingering Souls might be slightly better in that department, but I'm looking to improve the non-aggro utility of the deck.
Jotun Grunt
Jotun Grunt is a separate story. I know I am not the first to fall against a gigantic Knight of the Reliquary, an untargetable Nimble Mongoose or Tarmogoyf, or getting that Counterspell or Spell Pierce flashbacked with Snapcaster Mage when you tried to resolve your Jace, the Mind Sculptor. Jotun Grunt provides a fast beater, one that improves 2 dominant decks in the format right now: RUG and Maverick. Especially RUG since Jotun Grunt is good against the majority of the decks threats and it survives atleast 1 lightning bolt/forked bolt/chain lightning, etc. RUG was the most played deck in Ghent, which is only 2 or 3 hours from Amsterdam, where I live. Jotun Grunt further conveniently puts back Squadron Hawks and can be sacrificed to Cabal Therapy without much regret, because he is a temporary threat anyway. Jotun Grunt provides me with Batterskull 5 and 6, since I'm also running 4 Stoneforge Mystics. That is a pretty amazing density of 4/4 bodies for a deck like this. 2 Jotun Grunts might be too much, but I would at least play with 1. This is something I need to test further.
I have found that the only reason I was losing games was to either weak opening hands or hitting several blanks in a row. In order to fix this, I have added 2x Ponder, and I cut my second EE for a Trinket Mage (who can find my 1x Sensei's Divining Top). The Trinket Mage has also allowed me to free up a sideboard slot vs graveyard decks.
I've been liking this setup as well. Adding Top and Ponder make openers and topdecks a lot smoother.Quote:
Originally Posted by Malakai
I'm also trying to find the best place to add Vindicate. Probably by either dropping the 5th discard for one MD or dropping a Disenchant or two for two Vindicate in the SB. It feels like a good MD catch-all, but EE usually fills that role just fine. It might be fine in the SB as Enchantment/Artifact hate that doubles as Creature/Planeswalker removal.
I have been playing UWr Miracle Blade for a while now and i'm convinced it is absolutely insane. I don't feel like I have any bad match-ups at all. Maverick is usually a bye, and RUG can't beat the slow play with Terminus or Entreat. The deck is crazy good and I would never suggest any other build. I used it to top 8 2 SCG IQs in a row and have consistently came first or second at my LGS.
I just figured i'd put my two cents in for anyone who was interested. Feel free to argue or disregard me, and there will be no hard feelings as we are all here to learn.
Would you be so kind to include the list for this particular build? Thx! :smile:
Quote:
Originally Posted by learntolove6
gladly, my friend:Quote:
Originally Posted by Vidi
4 Stoneforge
3 Snapcaster
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Spell Snare
3 Spell Pierce
3 FoW
1 Counterspell
4 StP
2 Sensei's Diving Top
3 Terminus
1 Entreat the Angels
4 Brainstorm
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of FaF
3 Mishra's Factory
4 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
3 Island
1 Plains
1 Karakas
1 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
2 Wasteland
SB:
1 Humilty
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Gilded Drake
1 Banishing Stroke
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Flusterstorm
2 REB
2 Sulfur Elemnetal
1 FoW
2 Relic of Progenitus
May I give my particular opinion on this build? I've been playing UWr Terminator at the GP to a sad 6-3 score, so I have quite a little experience with it. But it's been quite a time since I last casted a Stoneforge Mystic.
1) 2 Sensei's Divining Top seems just plain wrong. I even play Academy Ruins to get one of my 4 Tops back. Yes, you are no Terminator-deck, but I'd still advance it to 3, or even 4. But as you deck does play equipment you could still play Trinket Mage which provides a body at least.
2) The one-off Spell Snares looks somewhat random, and the modern meta does not really warrant a Spell Snare to be honest. Your deck is not afraid of so many CC2 spells, better up the Counterspell/Spell Pierce count.
3) How the fuck can your manabase work? I mean, it looks great, cause it does everything, it provides 3 colors, creatures, utility-lands and even features some Wastelands. But how can this work? I didn't play a game with your manabase but it looks very shackey at best.
4) I've been kicking the Vendilion Cliques out of my list recently because I was not satisfied with their performance against various decks. Maybe your meta warrants playing these faeries, but I would give it another thought. You could easily stock up your other not-4-offs which should probably be 4-offs - for example Force of Will, maybe Snapcaster Mage too.
Greetings
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philipp802
You mean 3-3 actually right?
"I don't get why people think going 5-0 and 6-3 at a GP is going 11-3. Basically it's 8-3, 5-0 grinder, 3-3 actual GP. The 3 "wins" from byes are already counted in the grinder wins. "
Kidding aside, I do agree with most of what you said, except for Cliques not pulling their weight.
What a great answer:Quote:
Originally Posted by rxavage
"flame, flame, oh and I agree with you"
Thank you for your valuable input.
Greetings
EDIT: Just saw that you "quoted" that from a Philipp that's not me. It was Philipp2293 you quoted that from. I was surprised to read something like this from you, sorry for my reaction, I just wasn't used to such a form of communitcation from you, as I discussed with you earlier that year in the SneakAttack-Thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philipp802
Well That explains it, I quoted that because it seemed out of character, sorry about that. Anyways, I'm still torn between running an espsermiracle/blade deck or sneakshow next week at this tourney for duals. Here's my prospective esper list:
CREATURES
3 SCM
INSTANTS 16
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
1 counterspell
3 Spell Pierce
4 Swords to Plowshares
SORCERIES
4 Thoughtseize
3 Terminus
2 Entreat the Angels
ARTIFACTS 7
4 Top
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Vedalken Shackles
PLANESWALKER 3
3 Jace
LANDS 22
3 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
1 Academy Ruins
1 Karakas
SIDEBOARD
2 Vendilion Clique
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Disenchant
3 CB
1 Timley Reinforcements
1 Humility
1 Grafdigger’s cage
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Porphyry Nodes
How about something like:
4 Stoneforge
3 Snapcaster
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Trinket Mage
2 Spell Pierce
4 FoW
1 Counterspell
4 StP
2 Sensei's Diving Top
3 Terminus
1 Entreat the Angels
4 Brainstorm
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Mishra's Factory
1 Academy Ruins
4 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
3 Island
1 Plains
1 Karakas
1 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
1 Dust Bowl
SB:
1 Humility
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Gilded Drake
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Disenchant
2 Flusterstorm
2 REB
1 Pyroblast
2 Sulfur Elemental
1 Relic of Progenitus
The sideboard isn't set since you can always tweak it based on your metagame, but I like the maindeck.
rxavage, Why do you have SFM in your deck when you don't play any equipment to fetch?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bilb_o
It's supposed to be SCM, I'll fix that.
He doesn't list SFM above, he lists SCM.Quote:
Originally Posted by bilb_o
But I wonder why he calls it "espermiracle/blade" when it has no blades (or Jittes).
Updated: Heh, he fixed it by the time I read it, and I didn't see his note above.
I think it's missing Cursed Scroll. Gotta beat Merfolk somehow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vidi
Batterskull or Jitte usually beat Merfolk.Quote:
Originally Posted by Koby
Whoooooosssshhh.Quote:
Originally Posted by matunos
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...7&iddeck=39794
Because I could easily add 3 SFM, Batterskul, and Jitte. I posted an edited esperblade list which is where the mix-up happened. I've been testing straight UW miracle and it's performed well but it takes too long to close the game out. I'm also concerned about Merfolks being a big presence at the next tourney, hence why I may want to add the Stoneforge package.Quote:
Originally Posted by matunos
Hello,
I switched from my UW Blade to Esperblade recently. I'm having trouble with my sideboard plan against some decks. Here's my recent list:
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
2 Spell Pierce
1 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
2 Ponder
2 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
1 Academy Ruins
1 Karakas
2 Wasteland
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
3 Island
1 Plains
/Sideboard:
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Perish
1 Spell Pierce
2 Flusterstorm
1 Vendilion Clique
3 Lingering Souls
1 Humility
1 Disenchant
So basically I want to board in so many cards in almost every matchup that i think I'm oversideboarding but I'm not sure.
1) Maverick?
+2 Perish +3 Lingering Souls + Humility + Disenchant
- 2 Spell Pierce -2 Clique - 3 Force (I'm used to board out Countermagic mainly, but I think cutting almost all is wrong, maybe Discard spells?)
2) RUG?
On the play: +2 Perish +3 Lingering Souls + 2 Flusterstorm +1 Spell Pierce (Maybe Humility?)
-3 Jace -4 Force -1 Clique
On the Draw: +2 Perish +3 Lingering Souls + 2 Flusterstorm
-3 Jace -2 Force -Counterspell - 1 Clique
3) Show and Tell
+2 Surgical Extraction + 2 Flusterstorm +1 Vendilion Clique +1 Spell Pierce +1 Humility +Disenchant
-4 Swords to Plowshares (leave some in ?) -2 Engineered Explosives -1 Academy Ruins - 1 Umezawa's Jitte
So what do you guys think of this? I think I'm doing something wrong because I'm boarding so many cards. Are there any other options to cut in certain matchups?
Advice and criticism is appreciated :)
- preddi
Maverick is a tough one for me... there's two routes I think you can go that are both valid. 1) Side out countermagic. 2) Side out SFM package.Quote:
Originally Posted by preddi
The argument for siding out the SFM package would be that it is hard to rely on equipment against a deck that has 3-4 cards that destroy artifacts and 4 recyclable tutors to find them.
The argument against that would be that Maverick has few, if any, cards worth FoWing and 2-for-1ing yourself. Using discard to clear the way, it is possible to stick an equipment and finish the game before they can recover.
In my experience, most Maverick games tend to get very grindy. In that case, I'd rather have the extra protection, rather than SFM. Perhaps experiment with switching out the SFM package on the play vs on the draw. I still need to do quite a bit more testing before I am comfortable with this MU.
I would stick to taking out Jaces and Cliques. Both are REB fodder and you shouldn't need more than 4-5 slots against RUG. I'd much rather see you bring in PtE than Flusterstorm. The tempo from FoW can sometimes be relevant. (The exception could be if you see their list or strongly suspect they don't have REB/Pyroblast in their SB... in which case, Jace becomes very, very powerful.)Quote:
Originally Posted by preddi
You might want to bring in Vindicate (perhaps a Disenchant) as a way to deal with Sulfuric Vortex. It probably depends whether you bring in additional sweepers or not. Perish/WoG will help free up your EE's to hit Vortex, otherwise your EE will be important to kill Mongoose.
You can easily side out Swords and EE here. You can maybe lose the Jitte (though it can be useful in racing). Bring in Surgicals, Cliques, and however much countermagic you have. Disenchant/Vindicate is ok, but if they resolve Sneak Attack, they likely have you. If you need additional slots, you can board out Jace since he's pretty slow and tapping out is dangerous. Use Surgical aggressively to see how close they are to comboing and you'll know when it is safe to push your clock.Quote:
Originally Posted by preddi
What are people's thoughts on Pithing Needle (as part of the Trinket Mage SB package)? I'm not quite sure that it's worth the slot as I feel like I'd rather deal with the threat (Vindicate, Disenchant, removal, etc) rather than leave it sitting there waiting for something to bounce/destroy my Needle.
I don't see any sense in keeping in a singleton FOW - since it's the kind of card that you want to see in your opener (which is why people play 4) - it's a horrible midgame topdeck and only becomes okay again after turn 15, when it's not a big hassle to hardcast it. That being said, I'm not sure about the optimal alternative..Quote:
Originally Posted by preddi
Not sure whether keeping in Thoughtseize is viable. I'd opt to keep in 2 FOW instead to be able to resolve (and use) SFM.Quote:
Originally Posted by preddi
Disenchant is not an option against most S&T players by now, since they'll be able to wait until they can cast Sneak Attack and go off the same turn. I'd suggest keeping in Ruins instead.Quote:
Originally Posted by preddi
Hello,
I want to thank you first for your responses. I'm a little overwhelmed by the possibilities of the esper board. My UW list was more straight forward.
@Dzra:
Boarding out the SFM package sounds interesting but for this i think you need a proper way to close the game. Jace never got there against maverick for me because each creature is enough to stop Jace from ultimating. I no longer play Elspeth in my esper list, so I think the countermagic has to go or another threat has to be in my board (like Elspeth or Geist).
@Klaus:
I think boarding out all forces is optimal, but i lost many games to elspeth, choke, Sylvan Library. So I feel we need at least some ways to stop this cards from resolving.
This looks difficult :/
Against Maverick, I generally take out all of the countermagic and bring in removal. Aside from Choke, there's generally nothing in their deck that can't be dealt with via your standard removal package. I am playing 2 engineered explosives in the main and the third in the SB, and this card goes a long way in making this matchup more managable since it can lead to one-sided board wipes and deals effectively with the troublesome Mother of Runes.
Engineered Explosives I feel is a card that Esper really needs to start playing more of going forward to help deal with Maverick, RUG, and Merfolk. It's not the best against Goblins, but it's functional there as well. If you reference the origins of the deck (Mental Misstep era), the deck ran either Standstill or Ancestral Visions as methods of card advantage. Now, we get that somewhat via Snapcaster recursion, but EE furthers this idea by providing the potential for 2-for-1's in addition to being a solid removal option.
Against Maverick, I'd probably not go for Jace's ult for a long while. Cement your lead with a lot of incremental advantage and BSing every turn. It's not as flashy as equipment, Jacing, or Elspeth, but I think it's more reliable. If you stabilize early with removal and discard then your counters should stop them getting back into the game while you beat down with Clique and Snaps.
Boarding out counter magic is definitely an option. Between EE, Disenchant, and Vindicate, you should have enough ways to deal with Library and Choke. You're much more vulnerable to topdecks though.
Sorry this took so long to respond, I moved and didn't have internet for a few days.
1) I have tossed around the idea of 3 Tops, but besides the fact that my list is very tight already, I have found 3 to be a little clunky. I don't always want to drop it turn 1, and drawing multiples is SUPER clunky.
2) I agree with you completely. I've been a huge proponent of 4 Pierces for a long time because I agree that the meta does not want something like Snare, but i've just been trying it out lately as a 1-of, and although it has done a lot of work, I do think just making it the 4th pierce is better.
3) As far as the manabase is concerned I never have any issue. Maybe 1 in 10 times. It works as good as it looks. Fetchlands get me the colors I need, the wastelands are only there to take care of trouble lands, not to screw my opponent. Mishra's Factory is bonkers, and I almost always have the colors I need. It may be because i'm on 24 lands that it works, but it does.
4) For a while I agreed with you, but the value of Clique against combo is too good to pass up. I was running Geist for a long time but what I gained against Maverick with Terminus, I lost from Combo, so the Cliques do a lot of work. The reason I play 3 SCM is because they become a bit worse with all my Miracles. 3 FoW is just something I change depending on my meta.
I appreciate your comments and what you're saying has validity. My list changes frequently because I believe you should always change a list because it is never perfect, so i'll definitely consider what you said. I'm also kind of stubborn so there's that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philipp802
Has anyone tested Dark Confidant? I've been playing him as a 4 of and he is a must answer, or you just drown the opposition in card advantage.
Between FoW, Batterskull, Clique, Lingering Souls, Vindicate and Thoughtseize he sounds like a liability. He's always a must answer, but have you tracked your average lifeloss from him? I would like to think it's quite high, but have never tried it, so I might be wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenHornet
Don't forget Jace.Quote:
Originally Posted by Artlee
The general consensus with Confidant seems to be that he's usually worth the risk (and with Brainstorm and Ponder, you can mitigate it). But yeah that is definitely a risk.
OTOH, what do you take out to fit him?
He might be good for the sideboard, for matches where you side out FoW and/or Jace...
It seems that Surgical Extraction is the "go-to" choice for graveyard hate for this deck. However, I'm surprised that there's no love for Nihil Spellbomb as another option. It's a more crippling piece of gravehate, and since it cantrips, it's not embarrassing to bring in against decks which utilize the graveyard but don't depend on it (such as Canadian Threshold). Not to mention it actually cripples graveyard dependent decks like Dredge, as well as having excellent synergy with Academy Ruins.
Edit: In Esper Stoneblade, obviously.
Hi everyone , my name is Sam.
I played a lot stoneblade with a lot of differents lists , in 3 differents format. I really like this deck cause it won me a Ptq and day2ed me GP Amsterdam, won me bilands,...
But since Tom Martell won a GP with lingering souls , I stoped to play this deck cause I hate his list and lingering souls (mainly because of the bad manabase) , and didnt find a way to win the mirror without the black for lingering souls.
But now decided to build a new stoneblade based on the interaction between trinket mage and riptide laboratory.
here my list :
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Vendilion Clique
3 Trinket Mage
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Batterskull
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Riptide Laboratory
3 Mishra's Factory
1 Karakas
4 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
2 Ponder
1 Polluted Delta
3 Island
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Snow-Covered Plains
1 Tropical Island
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Windswept Heath
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Path to Exile
SB: 4 Terminus
SB: 2 Counterbalance
SB: 1 Vendilion Clique
SB: 1 Karakas
SB: 1 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 1 Gilded Drake
First of all , I play 24 lands and only 2 colors. This means that the manabase is solid and good against wastelands. Furthermore , this manabase allows us to play some very usefull colorless lands such as riptide laboratory and mishra's factory.
The 2nd thing is trinket mage. This card bring with ,his toolbox , a lot of answers (needle,EE,relic,tormod's) and also TOP and seat of the synod. It is a bit slow but allways usefull, provide CA and ''combo'' with riptide.
I play 2 Top because it wins control mirror and combo with terminus and counterbalance of the sideboard.It also bring some gas when you draw a lot of your 24 lands.And there are a lot of shuffle effect in the deck to make sure you find what you need.
2 batterskull because it is a very good card on his own in this deck that can easily hardcast it.Also it make sure you have something to search with your 2nd or 3rd stonefore expecialy when you sideout jitte.
EE is very good right now because it kills nimble mangooze , merfolks and sylvan library.
Now the sideboard :
4 terminus are very good against merfolk , goblin , elf , RUG delver , maverick.
4 because it is good agaist a lot of the field and you allways want to draw a lot of it, if no brainstorm you can still hardcast it. Also good with TOPs,Jaces,bs,ponder.
1 tormod's crypt , 1 needle, 1 relic. Easy to find with 3 trinket mage,2 top,4 bs,2 ponder
the 2nd relic is mostly here against RUG delver ,it makes mangoose 1/1 and tarmo smaller and 0/1 when you want, exiles loam and ancient grudge.
1 Karakas 1 Gilded Drake , mostly against Sneak n Show and also vs reanimator's the show n tell sideboard plan.
Karakas is also good against maverick because it can bounce thalia and the all importent gaddock teeg.
2 flusterstorm 1 vendilion clique 2 counterbalance.Very good against all kind of combo and control decks.
1 path to exile it mostly there to have a 5th remouval against RUG delver but I can easily see a Elspeth or even a 4th jace in this slot if you expect more control decks.
vs RUG delver :
+4 terminus +1 relic of progenitus +1 path to exile +2 counterbalance
-4 force of will -1 jitte -3 jace
vs Maverick
+4 terminus +1 Karakas
-1 vendilion clique -4 force of will
vs Sneak n Show
+1 Karakas+1 gilded drake +2 flusterstorm +1 vendilion clique+1 pithing needle+2 counterbalance
-2 EE -4 stp -1 jitte -1 batterskull
vs Reanimator
+1 Karakas+1 Gilded Drake +2 flusterstorm+1 vendilion clique+2 counterbalance
-2 EE -4 stp-1 jitte-1 batterskull
vs Control
+2 flusterstorm +1 vendilion clique+2 counterbalance
some number of stp,EE,relic
against stoneblade you maybe want to bring image in , as stonefore n°5 and n°6 or a remouval for clique and sometimes geist of sainth traft or even a 2nd trinket mage or to ramp by coying mishra's factory.
what do you think about this deck ? what would you change ? do you have critics or questions ?
This deck seems very cool. But I can see a few problems with it. This format is about representing the cheapest threat, fastest creatures, fastest combos, and representing some countermagic back up to get there. The reason Stoneblade (esper) can do so well is because they can play a reactive and more importantly, a proactive game with discards. You aren't running counter magic, so your only source of proactive game is searching up an Engineered Explosives for 2. This game plan can fail against some decks such as Maverick, although the number of Terminus in the sideboard can really help out.Quote:
Originally Posted by nabuchodonosor
The reason Esper is so strong is because it has access to cards such as Inquisition / Thoughtseize / Lingering Souls. All those cards gives the deck more time to improve card quality and gain advantage over time. Lingering Souls, once resolved, can stop RUG decks for more than a turn or two, same with Maverick. Then you're required to find an equipment / Explosives to take care of the threat on board.
The thing is, I only see a proactive game in this deck. (Trinket Mage / Stoneforge), but no reactive game. For a slow deck like Stoneblade, this is needed. I really wanted to make a deck like this work as well, Trinket Mage is one of my favorite cards. It has a tendency to even make your sideboard more consistent by having more copies. Searching for Pithing Needle in a mirror match / control deck is a key to winning.
Hey guys, I'm sure all of you have been seeing 2-3 Spell Pierces in the Esper Stoneblade list. I have been testing the deck repeatedly and have found that Pierces are probably the worst cards in the deck. It really does not negate anything that I want it to and its usually just a blank card that I want to get value out of immediately. I can see it is extremely good against the UW Miracles deck or combo decks, which haven't been too popular in the US.
I really dont like cards like thoughtseize and inquisition of kozilek because they dont interact with what's on board , sometimes put you behind in tempo, and most importent thing it is a really bad topdeck in the late game.
Of course we have brainstorm+shuffle effect to get rid of these useless discard spells.
But I dont think that it is worth spalishing black and make the manabase worst for these cards. Plus , I play Vendilion Clique who provide a similar discard effect but Is also a good body who can kill a jace or tard with a mangoose, and it can also recycle a card in our hand.
I am not saying thoughtseize is a bad card , I would definitly play it if it were white or blue. But I dont think it justifly adding black.
I dont think thoughtseize make your maverick match up better (partly cause of the mana and partly cause of the fact that it is a horrible late-game topdeck.)
Thoughtseize is only very good on the 1st few turns or when you can bounce(with jace or karakas) then discard a creature.
Thoughtseize is very good against combo decks but right a lot of poeple play wasteland.
I think the discard is very very good in the early game against control but control mirror are often very long and sometimes you draw thoughtseize in the late game when you need CA or active cards.
But maybe thoughtseize is good enough ? Do you really think it is nessesary ?
why is it impossible to play just UW stoneblade like before Tom Martell won that GP ?
I dont like Spell pierce because again , it is very bad in the late game. Also, holding a spellpierce can make you loose some very importent tempo against decks with wasteland,daze,thalia.
Plus spell pierce is not particulary good against RUG delver of Maverick.
I think thant trinket mage is a lot better than Lingering souls in most situations.
And it provides some answers like tormod's, needle or the all-importent TOP where souls only smash or chump bloc.
(for example: against tarmo,mangoose,thalia,delver(EE cost only 2 to kill thalia and 0 to kill delver)
Trinket mage also ''combo'' with riptide laboratory.
I think I must be wrong because everyone is playing Lingering Souls, could somone explain me ?
Since I play a lot of card that make CA(trinket,stoneforge,jace,EE,terminus,snapcaster) and a lot of cards to find them , and a lot of reactive cards too , I think that not beeing proactive is not a major problem.
For example , against delver my plan is to destroy all their creatures (with stp,relic,path,terminus,EE) then drown them with all the CA. In this match up you can't afford to play cards like thoughtseize cause it is a dead card in the lategame and drawing this at the wrong time can allows them to come back in the game.