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If you have something you want in your pile but not in your hand, you can usually use Brainstorm from hand, crack LED in response to Doomsday (so you can search the stuff up with Doomsday), or stack Brainstorm to draw into Brainstorm with SDT/Ponder. Alternately with Meditate, you can just cast it. 6 mana isn't really all that much mana...
Well, I didn't mean in a LED situation. Just the best piles to make storm. Then again, I guess most regular piles would be sufficient in that situation, upon trying it a couple of times.
Even without LED, Brainstorm's transformative power is amazing. Without LED, 1-2 cards in hand and an SDT or Brainstorm can set up some pretty outstanding Doomsday scenarios, even if you don't want to play LED. With just one card to put back, you get a mass draw spell or tutor + something like LED if you want it.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeroenC
This is the type of thing that I haven't written much on because it seems to be really situational. These one-shot piles aren't as formulaic and tend to take a bit more thought, but you can really expose the power of mass tutoring power of Doomsday. Would more stuff like the Crafting Doomsday Piles page help to recognize these situations?
I'd play a Tendrils somewhere. And a Doomsday. And I don't see the reason to play both Grapeshot and Pyroclasm. If you plan on using Pyroclasm only against ETW (since we're faster than tribal decks, and merfolk plays 8 lords anyway) then you can play Maelstrom pulse, it's a solution more to CB.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeroenC
It's worth noting that the pass the turn Doomsday pile of:
Meditate
LED
LED
Burning Wish
Burning Wish
still produces 18 lifeloss (8 storm + Tendrils) for 3UR (although you can't cheat the Meditate with LED, you could cheat the 1R with LED) if you have 1 Tendrils and 1 IGG in your sideboard.
Since you posted your post-M10-list, I was testing with Silence and was quite satisfied. I missed Duress a bit though. Maybe we could split Silence and Duress.
The questions that came to my mind testing your list, Emidln:
- Isn't 17 Lands a bit much? It went fine with 16 Lands as well
- Is the 2nd Basic Island really necessary? Is Wipe away that important :P?
- Do you really feel comfortable with not even a single IT main?
So far
Fred
How has Rain of Filth been working out for you guys? Also I wonder if in my meta, which consists of like 50% aggro, 25% staxx 25% control, I should run straight dday or the hybrid version, which was pure awesomeness last time.
The point is, how consistently do you beat Burn, Goblins and Zoo/Goyfsligh with straight dday?
I've been playing with an inspired build of FT lately. It's a straight-Doomsday build with Force of Will designed as something of a glass canon. It's really, really, really good at beating aggro and reasonably good at beating decks like Dragon Stompy and Stax. It's matchup against blue is so-so (I can win them against good players, although whether or not I can do so consistently preboard because of my experience or because I'm getting lucky is something up for debate) and I bring in 4 Xantid Swarm postboard. The deck probably wants to replace Street Wraith, but if you do, you end up losing the ability to reliably deal with Chalice @ 1.
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Street Wraith
2 Meditate
4 Force of Will
4 Dark Ritual
2 Cabal Ritual
3 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Mystical Tutor
4 Doomsday
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Tendrils of Agony
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
2 Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
The sideboard would have stuff like:
4 Xantid Swarm
3 Krosan Grip
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Infernal Tutor
1 Helm of Awakening
1 Brain Freeze
1 Wipe Away
The build gives you a lot of options and you can really exploit some strange lines of play. There is no bounce maindeck because I didn't want to fit it in. If they resolve something bad, you just play around it or go to game 2. I don't know that I'd play this in a general metagame, although I would claim that a good player can do well with just about any build of Tendrils in most metagames on general skill. It's probably worth noting that with Street Wraith you are dangerously low on blue cards. Outside of blue cards (all of which are pitchable, which is why you have two Meditate), you have 8 ways to draw into the Doomsday pile.
I've a friend Brian who came up with a nice Iggy version running 4 FOW and 4 Pact of Negations. I was wondering if you can fit in PoNs as 2 copies to up the FOW effects to 6. That way, you have 6 well protected ways of going off. I'm not sure if Street Wraith is the right way but it can draw you your Doomsday pile instead of relying on SDT so maybe it's good. I still believe in 3-4 Duress MD. I'm not too much of a combo player, but I always liked the comfort of knowing your opponent's hand before going off.
I have been loving this list:
4x LED
4x Orim's Chant
4x Dark Ritual
4x Brainstorm
4x Top
4x Mystical Tutor
3x Lotus Petal
3x Silence
3x Infernal Tutor
3x Doomsday
2x Ponder
2x Cabal Ritual
1x Tendrils
1x KGrip
1x Meditate
1x IGG
4x Polluted Delta
3x Flooded Strand
2x Bloodstained Mire
1x Bayou
1x Tundra
1x Scrubland
1x Tropical Island
1x Underground Sea
1x Island
1x Swamp
Sideboard
3x Xantid Swarm
2x KGrip
2x Cabal Ritual
1x Helm of Awakening
1x Grapeshot
1x Ray of Revelation
1x Infernal Tutor
1x Chain of Vapor
1x Lotus Petal
2x meta slots most likely it will be 1x Disenchant and 1x Naturalize since peope in my meta LOVE Null Rod and Pyrostatic Pillar.
It plays a lot like older FT lists and Silence just makes the IGG loop that much better against blue! It is a little weaker against CB but thats what Grip is for. I really like Silence, it has been very hot so far!
I don't play the control matchup a lot, but I've been testing Rain of Filth, and while it's come in handy on occasion, it's fairly all-in when you play it, and if you do sac lands and don't win, it's a serious problem. I think I would rather use Cabal Rit in it's place. I'm not saying it's not useable, it's just too risky for me to appreciate.
I like the Chant/Silence lists, but I can't say I like not having Duress. However, if you don't see CB, this is clearly the list to play. It seems very, very optimal and I like the lack of red. I've been testing Burning Wish, and it just seems to get in the way. The problem is that we don't run Red acceleration like TES, which has really put a damper on my flexibility with it. Plus, it's always popping up at the most inopportune times, but that's just bad luck IMO. I may try it as a singleton, because it's flexibility makes me feel like I haven't lost when my Tendrils gets milled or whatever the scenario is. Stupid Raven Guild Master. A guy I know has a hell of a wizard list, I lose when his Vial gets to 3. It's a serious problem, and I feel like a noob losing to Milling Wizards.
Pce,
--DC
Nice thing about B. Wish is it's an additional out against Chalice@1; especially for builds without Duress.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Cynic87
Ok so I'm just starting to play this deck, but how exactly do we expect to beat Counterbalance? My games in testing have basically all gone the same way: opponent plays CB, I Mystical for Grip/Wipe Away in response or just naturally draw it, and then can't assemble enough mana/protection to win before I either get killed or a 2nd CB hits play. I'm just playing a straight Doomsday list with Duress and Chant (for IGG), but games like this make me really miss Ad Naus for the ability to just win off of one card out of nowhere.
AN still forces you to go off pretty early, due to your life total. In case he doesn't have any threats for you lifepoints you can of course roll it a little slower. But in general your opponent will have a beater/Goyf pretty fast and your AN will become useless.
CB + threats is not the combination any stormbased combodeck would like to see, so your struggles are absolutely normal. Of course it is harder to set up under the CB-Lock but still it is not impossible, especially when you look at the number of lands you run. The good thing about Doomsday is that you don't need like at least 2-3 Rituals to make things happen.
Besides, you won't be able to cast an Ad Nauseam "out of nowhere" because your opponent will be able to counter your Rituals easily.
By the way:
Props for Pulp_Fiction and his awesome list. I've been testing a pretty similar one lately and it worked out really good.
The only problem I had pretty often was that I wasn't able to cast multiple Chants in one turn, due to the lack of white mana.
Have you had the same concern?
@VsTheWorld: Totally normal problems, everyone has problems with these matchups. Landstill is fairly easy since you have ample time to setup, but be aware of Stifle, since a lot of lists (at least in my meta) run them. CB is the worst card the deck can see. Your best bet is turn 1 Top for solid setup or an opening hand with KGrip and/or Mystical Tutor. Just keep practicing with combo and the most important thing is to know when you have to go for a win and when to hold back and what hands are best against what decks. This may sound easy, but against a deck like Burn a hand of: Top, Mystical, Mystical, land, land, Chant, Ponder can be deceptively bad. G2 I would keep this since they most likely brought in Pyrostatic Pillar but G1 this can be to slow if you don't hit a Ritual or LED with Ponder.
@FredMaster: Thanks man! What are the changes in your list? Yeah, I have had that problem, another Tundra or Scrubland in the main and cutting it down to just 8x fetches should help; Tundra is probably better. Maybe bumping it up to 17 lands? Not sure, I played 17 land versions before and, similar to what you posted earlier, it always just felt like a few to many. Maindeck space is so tight already and I tried hard to get that 4th Petal in. I have been considering going down to 2x Doomsday in the main since there have been numerous times where I activate Top and see 2x of them or have 1x in my opening hand and draw more. Need to test it out but maybe 2x Doomsday would be the correct number and then perhaps putting in that 4th Petal for speed and mana fixing problems.
For pulpfiction: You only run 2 white sources though for 7 chants and all are nonbasics. Wouldnt that make your chants dead cards if a control deck wastelands T1?
YES!!!!!!, sorry i have been drinkingm, its been fine, fucke, drunk = WIN!!!!! thsis post is relevent, now i9ts time to spend money in ebay!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteshepherdman
He meant to say that he also got petals as white sources.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pulp_Fiction
i'd feel better running 1 basic plains if i were to dedicate so many slots to white
I'd always feel more comfortable with a basic plains. Against Staxx you really need your plains to cast Serenity, or Wasteland might screw you.Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteshepherdman
For different reasons*, I have considered using Ideas Unbound as a mini-Meditate before. It might be a substitute for SW, upping your blue count while keeping resilience to Chalice.Quote:
Originally Posted by emidln
*You can go off Brainstorm-style with no spare cards for extra U, or you can generate lethal storm from Top+Led.
------------------
I played hybrid against combo-nightmare (FOW, CB, Snare, Vendillion, Daze, Pridemages, Goyf and a couple MMs) yesterday to a 6-1 result. In the win, I get FOWed twice after IGG and spin top to luckily find Tendrils FTW.
I punted a game where my pile should have been different in order not to lose to his Pridemaging a LED in response to the second one.
All the other where major beatings, with fast CB plus clocks backed by counters.
The guy is a friend of mine who seems to be a bit too concerned about combo. He may have some problems in brazilian aggro/dredge-infested meta with that list.
The list that I'm likely playing at Gencon is very similar to Pulp_Fiction's maindeck, although my manabase lacks green maindeck.
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Mystical Tutor
3 Doomsday
2 Infernal Tutor
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Meditate
1 Tendrils of Agony
4 Dark Ritual
2 Cabal Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
3 Lotus Petal
4 Silence
3 Orim's Chant
1 Wipe Away
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
2 Underground Sea
2 Tundra
1 Scrubland
1 Island
1 Plains
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Lotus Petal
SB: 1 Cabal Ritual
SB: 1 Pact of Negation
SB: 1 Slaughter Pact
SB: 1 Grapeshot
SB: 1 Helm of Awakening
SB: 1 Chain of Vapor
SB: 1 Echoing Truth
SB: 1 Rushing River
SB: 1 Hurkyl's Recall
SB: 2 Tropical Island
The maindeck is relatively fast for one of my maindecks but most of it is self-explanatory. The maindeck shaves basics for white duals to help cast chant effects. The two basics were chosen based on what I need the most. Pre-combo, you need blue mana more than anything else, followed up by consistent chant/silence mana.
Speaking of Chant/Silence, Silence is better than Orim's Chant. After testing it more, I can't come up with any reason why you'd play any Chant before Silence. Against aggro, we never want to hold Chant long enough to pay the kicker because it is most effective turn 1-2 to prevent opponents from playing discard and creatures. Remember, if they don't put creatures into play, they cannot deal us damage. Even so, damage isn't very relevant to this build because we can win easily with 1-2 life. The most important part of Chant/Silence in the upkeep is to prevent discard, hate bears, and artifacts. With more lists playing Divert and Misdirection lately as a means of dealing with the upsurge of Zoo, Chant loses quite a bit of utility. Should something happen to deal with the infinite aggro and tempo thresh decks that exist, I'd pick up my additional Chants over Silence, but it seems like roughly 1 in 10 opponents has had Misdirection/Divert recently.
The sideboard probably deserves a bit of explanation. Lands come in with Krosan Grip, potentially for other lands if you're not playing against resource denial but generally in spell slots. Slaughter Pact and Pact of Negation fill roles needed in certain Doomsday piles (Pact of Negation edging out Duress in Stifle piles (where you know opp has Stifle/STP on his dude/etc) slightly because I don't really believe people play Trickbind) while being decent by themselves outside of piles. Petal and Cabal Rit provide additional acceleration in the face of aggro (or just places where you need to take out chants but have nothing else to bring in).
I've been considering whether or not I actually need Helm/Grapeshot recently. If I include a LDV in the maindeck (which is a card that I'm afraid that I'm not good enough to use correctly), it becomes not only an out to a lot of different hate (that is generally answered by Slaughter Pact or Chain of Vapor) but has the potential to be assembled out of Doomsday by a combination of cantripping and tutoring into Sensei, Sensei.
I must be new here. What is LDV?
Lim-Dul's Vault
http://magiccards.info/ai/en/192.html
Lim-Dul's Vault.Quote:
Originally Posted by rukcus
EDIT: Way to copy me BW.
Lim Dul's VaultQuote:
Originally Posted by rukcus
http://sales.starcitygames.com//card...?product=14492
Edit: Look up, Bryant.
I know what the card does, just wasn't familiar with the shorthand since I didn't see it listed anywhere in emidln's list.
I am trying to figure out how to not get raped by Wasteland in the first few turns of the game. Do you wait with fetches until you have a business spell? Do you fetch basic Island if you're trying to dig? What about if you're low on lands in hand or none left?
Sorry man, I was wasted last night and felt compelled to update facebook and post on the Source after everyone was done drinking! Really I haven't had problems getting white mana. This was brought up a little earlier when someone mentioned they had problems casting multiple Chants in one turn. It can be problematic but like GreenOne mentioned there are Petals which greatly help out. Just play around Wasteland the best you can. I assume u are referring to the Thrash/Merfolk matchup which also pack Stifle so saving fetches for when you need them is a little risky. This problem can also be solved by playing an additional Tundra.Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteshepherdman
It is only 7x cards main that are white and, while I would not recommend playing a plains, you can throw one into the board if you do fear Wasteland. I hate having a non-blue basic in DDFT but there are certain builds where they are necessary. Run it in the board if you feel like you need to play it.
@emidln: LDV is interesting. I never really viewed it as a combo piece but rather a setup spell. But I see what you are talking about, using it as both, make LDV pile, draw into DD, make DD pile, that kind of thing. I have not wanted Helm/Grapeshot in a LONG time. I boarded it in once against Eva Green but I have not really used it since.
Hey emidln good luck at gen con with the 7 chants; have you tried using instead of 2 trops sb for your grips 1 trop 1 bayou? Most of the time i just like having one or 2 blue sources to power my cantrips and black for acceleration, i dunno, its just my first impression when i saw the list you posted
LDV is interesting because it can often form a one to two card combo that lets you draw three to four cards in line by playing a Brainstorm from hand or as the top card in an LDV pile. Less powerfully, you can use SDT to only grab two cards off an end stepped LDV (draw per turn + SDT activation). Further it works similarly to Mystical Tutor + SDT/Ponder and LEDs to simulate an Infernal Tutor (often finding Infernal Tutor first) to begin the IGG loop.
I don't need much black mana which is why I have double Trop in the sideboard. Finding the Krosan Grips with cantrips/tutors and then casting KGrip is often more important and useful then being able to KGrip and then cast Dark Rit/Cabal Rit.
how well have you been able to manage against tempo thresh's land destruction suite of stifle/wasteland?
I have been playtesting a little more and have come to the conclusion that 15 lands actually is enough in this build. For a while I had been running 16 but kept getting mana flooded so I cut it down and this actually made a big difference. As far as the white sources go, the manabase has been slightly altered and I have never had a problem, especially after messing with the maindeck and upping the Petal count to 4. Here is the result of my playtesting and the SB is a result of my recent tournament experience against Merfolk and 4c Thresh:
4x LED
4x Orim's Chant
4x Dark Ritual
4x Brainstorm
4x Top
4x Mystical Tutor
4x Lotus Petal
3x Silence
3x Doomsday
3x Cabal Ritual
2x Ponder
2x Infernal Tutor
1x Tendrils
1x KGrip
1x Meditate
1x IGG
4x Polluted Delta
4x Flooded Strand
2x Tundra
1x Bayou
1x Scrubland
1x Tropical Island
1x Underground Sea
1x Island
Sideboard
2x Infernal Tutor
2x KGrip
2x Chain of Vapor
1x Cabal Ritual
1x Disenchant
1x IGG
1x Naturalize
1x Slaughter Pact
1x Hurkyl's Recall
1x Plains
2x Open because I can't decide between 2x Xantid Swarm or 1x Xantid Swarm and 1x open spot. Oftentimes just the threat of Xantid Swarm is enough to scare the opponent. Currently I prefer the 2x Swarm since it just feels like the right number and since maindeck spots are tight, there isn't a whole lot I want to take out for Xantid and KGrip in the blue matchups. The other stuff is just about making aggro a better matchup after Null Rods and Pyrostatic Pillars and Teegs come in and the IGG is in there for Burn which is a suprisingliy difficult match if you don't get a fast start.
The Plains I think is going to be a necessary evil. I still object to running one in the main unless you are playing just a 3x color build. And I think the rest of the board is self explanatory.
I am really enjoying the speed of this deck and have been pulling random wins out of nowhere. The rituals and Petals seem to be just the right count and I have only been stranded once playing 4x Top, 4x Brainstorm, 2x Ponder, out of a ton of games, but this occassionally is the nature of a combo deck; so it should be expected. But as far as everything else goes, this deck feels really great, I would kind of like to to -1 Doomsday +1 Infernal but that would make the blue match a little weaker and would involve putting more DD in the board and taking out additional cards when sideboarding that I don't want to remove. Thoughts?
@emidln: Do you think it is time to take the Grapeshot/Helm infinite combo out of the board? It seems that running ITs more than makes up for this. Grapeshot/Helm should be playing in straight 17x land DD, but it just feels out of place, even though it only takes up 2 spots, I rarely ever use it and think there are better cards you could run in place of it. Do you think Heml/Grapeshot belongs in the SB of these current DDFT builds?
I posted this at the Storm boards as well, but I I'll repost here.
Have you ever missed Duress? I am really intrigued with having up to 8 Chant effects in the MD, but cutting Duress for them seems risky. I love being able to get information on my opponent's hand and picking out Counterbalances and Chalices before they hit play, especially when I'm going into a game blind, not knowing what my opponent is playing.
I don't miss Duress at all. I never liked it to begin with because it almost always makes IGG irrelevant. On the draw your opponent just Brainstorms in response to Duress and hides CB. As far as Chalice goes, you have a lot of answers to that, especially after SB. Have you tested the 7-8 Chant lists yet? It is weird, but agsint decks playing Chalice you can just Chant them on turn 1 and attempt to win on turn 2 Chant them again. The new builds of DDFT are a lot more aggressive and fast rather than defensive. After SB Chalice really is not a problem unless it goes t1: Moon, t2: Chalice .... but thats sad times for almost any deck, but thanks to Petals you can work through this.
I genuinely don't care what my opponent is playing, Duress can work, but if you Chant them and they don't counter it .... you are clearly going to win. Oftentimes I just like to throw a Chant out there to see where I am at and draw some shit out. Or, if you aren't sure what you are playing against, throw a Top out on turn 1 and try to draw out Daze or something. Personally for me, the Chants have been spectacular, but test them out. Playing 7-8 Chants might not be right for your meta, if 4x Chant and 3-4 Duress feels right, by all means, run that. But from my experience, playing those Chants makes DDFT that much better as it allows you to IGG in peace and not worry about anything bad happening, especially during those games where you can't seem to draw into anything to draw into the DD pile. Just Chant into IGG loop or something along those lines (using Top, LED, MT and Brainstorm/Ponder).
Chanting the opponent out of his turn 1 Chalice play is nice, but my main concern is if you don't know what the opponent is playing. Do you take out his Turn 1 play (for Chalice 1) or save it for when you're ready to go off (against countermagic)?
I just might suck it up and play 4 Chant, 4 Silence, and 4 Duress in my DDFT build, along with 1 Grip and 1 Wipe Away. I'll just trim it down once I find that excessive.
I have been continuing to mess around with Doomsday and I finally arrived at an ANT/DD Hybrid that I really like playing. Here is what I have been messing around with:
4x LED
4x Orim's Chant
4x Dark Ritual
4x Brainstorm
4x Top
4x Mystical Tutor
4x Lotus Petal
4x Infernal Tutor
3x Cabal Ritual
2x Silence
2x Chrome Mox
1x Tendrils
1x KGrip
1x Meditate
1x IGG
1x Ad Nauseam
1x Doomsday
4x Polluted Delta
4x Flooded Strand
2x Tundra
1x Bayou
1x Scrubland
1x Tropical Island
1x Underground Sea
1x Island
This list has been really good so far. Very consistent. There are times where Ponder is missed but overall it play well without it. I am not sure how similar to emidln's GP list this is since I haven't seen that list on months, but I really like the versatility of this deck. Thoughts?
Thouhts:
Do you really need Chrome Moxen?
I mean, AN'ing is like plan C, and they appear to be even worse than Cabal Rituals in any other scenario.
And I believe some more protection is called for, at least in my meta.
I'd play a list that looks like yours, but would do something like:
-1 Infernal Tutor
-2 Chrome Mox
+2 Silence
+1 Land, probably Underground Sea
Maybe -1 Infernal Tutor, +1 Rain of Filth.
Too many Infernal Tutors are bothering me these days...
I also need the Basic plains, but that's just a detail.
Oh, and I'd rather use Wipe Away instead of the main Krosan Grip, but I understand you, and don't wanna get into that discussion right now.
Took DDFT Hybrid to my local tournament today and went 4-0-2 and split the prize in the top 4 out of 30ish people. I got really good matchups but the deck was performing flawlessly. Here is the list I took followed by a short report:
4x LED
4x Orim's Chant
4x Dark Ritual
4x Brainstorm
4x Top
4x Mystical Tutor
4x Lotus Petal
4x Infernal Tutor
3x Cabal Ritual
2x Silence
2x Chrome Mox
1x Tendrils
1x KGrip
1x Meditate
1x IGG
1x Ad Nauseam
1x Doomsday
4x Polluted Delta
4x Flooded Strand
2x Underground Sea
1x Tundra
1x Bayou
1x Scrubland
1x Tropical Island
1x Island
Sideboard
2x Xantid Swarm
2x Disenchant
2x Chain of Vapor
2x Doomsday
2x Krosan Grip
1x Hurkyl's Recall
1x Naturalize
1x Slaughter Pact
1x Silence
1x Plains
Round 1 - G/R/w Welder Survival
g1 - He lands a turn 2 Survival and I win VIA IGG loop on turn 4.
g2 - Opening hand is beautiful and I easily setup for the turn 2 AdN kill.
Round 2 - BW Board Control w/ Sinkhole, Thoughtseize, Vindicate
g1: Turn 1 I get Thoughtseized and win on turn 3 after Brainstorming into MT, and Tutoring up AdN with Dark Ritual in hand.
g2: Turn 1 I get Thoughtseized and my hand is: LED, LED, Naturalize, Tundra, fetch, Infernal Tutor, Mystical. He takes Mystical and I draw another MT and play land go. He Thoughtseizes again on his turn 2, again taking the MT and next turn I use the IGG loop for enough damage to kill him since Thoughtseize helped me out. Turn 1 and 2 discard spell and I still win on turn 2 .... pretty fucking good!
Round 3 - Zoo w/ Teeg in the board
g1: I keep a really solid hand and he gets a blazing start but I win with IGG loop on turn 3.
g2: I keep a mediocre hand because I am willing to gamble with my 7 and he keeps a hand with just land and Relic of Progenitus but no pressure (mulled to 5 or 6). I fire of AdN on turn 4, he is stalled on 1 land but I don't want to give him time to drop Teeg or something and AdN into garbage but I eventually hit Petal, LED, Dark Rit, IT, and play Chrome Mox and Petal, Chain of Vapor Chrome Mox back to my hand and copy it for Petal, drop my hand and IT with LED in play into Tendrils.
Round 4 - Draw
Round 5 - Draw
Top 8
Round 6 - Mono-White Kithkin from standard. Again, no joke, he was undefeated up until this point and was tearing some good legacy decks apart.
g1: Mull to 6 and open up: Dark Ritual, MT, Trop, fetch, Chrome Mox, Chant .... god I love combo, EOT I MT for AdN and easily win on turn 2.
g2: I keep a weird opening 7: MT, MT, Brainstorm, land, Cabal Ritual, IT, and Dark Ritual. I plan on going the DD Route since I haven't yet but after I draw a third MT I decide to Brainstorm and hit another land and LED. This deck is to good, put back what I don't want, EOT MT up another Dark Ritual and IGG him out on turn 3. I remember the first time I saw a legacy combo deck play and thought "WTF" that was exactly what this kid did. He looked at me after g1 and said "I have nothing to stop that ... I don't think there is anything I can do". Then after the round was over he asked me "is there any way to stop your deck?" I told him the usualy hate cards like Null Rod, Teeg etc. and he was just dumbfounded still, he even made a comment that our 2 games were like not even playing Magic. I agreed, this is the point of combo, your opponent has cards ... but very few of them even matter.
Overall I had spectacular matchups and the deck performed flawlessly. I never lost a single game, and only mulliganed twice out of 8 games. I am really feeling this build. The deck feels so solid, and for a while I felt that I didn't even need DD, but I knew against blue AdN would be coming out and 2 more DD would be coming in. I also never really drew Top ... at all. The draws were pretty good and there were a few games I had it in my hand but it was never really necessary. STILL, I am glad it was there should my hands be terrible and in need of filtering. In round 1 I almost did a turn 2 DD go against Survival with: IT, Ritual, Ritual, Cabal, Petal, Petal, land in hand but he had Survival in play and was afraid of a turn 3 Platinum Angel so I kept my options open. Eventually winning on turn 4 after I drew IGG. The SB was HOT all day, I feel it was really dialed into the meta this week. Against most aggro decks I go: -1 Grip, -3 to 6 Chants and add in all my 3x Disenchants, 2x Chain of Vapor, and Slaughter Pact, but it depends on the deck and how many Disenchants I want because I don't want to mess up AdN very much. Against any blue deck without Counterbalance I would go -1 AdN, -2 Chrome Mox, -2 IT and +2 Xantid Swarm, +2 DD, and +1 Silence, against Thrash and Merfolk board in the Plains in the spot of Sea #2. Against anything with CB I would board just like above and in addition go -1 Cabal Ritual, -1 Lotus Petal and +2 Grip. I really feel this SB is cabaple of handling basically anything and is super effective against nearly everything you will encounter. Thoughts?
@Alma: Yes, the 2x Chrome Mox is very necessary to support AdN, I would not play it without Chrome Mox since we can't do the upkeep LED trick anymore. Rain of Filth is basically garbage and I see no reason to play it as it is such a double edged sword and will either be amazing or just pitiful. If it works for you keep playing it but I have had nothing but problems with the card.
I would never play 8x Chants, 7x feels like the perfect number from my playtesting. With 8 it feels like I just draw to many and they cloud up Ponders (different builds) and Brainstorms frequently as well as make very unwanted appearances in AdN which is why this build runs 6.
Hi!
I haven't played FT since AN was released, but I'm considering playing this kind of combo again ... fighting through any kind of hate with a different DD pile is just priceless :cool:
Anyway, one question came up for me when I took a look at all those different versions of storm combo running around. Most of them look really similar, the main differences I saw where DD, IT, Burning Wish and AN. While I also understand why Wish wouldn't be the best choice for FT, I don't get the point in not running a single tutorable AN. Sure, FT lacks Moxen and runs fewer Petals and Cabal Rituals than the other storm decks - but nevertheless, a single AN looks like a good way to recover from heavy discarding or too many counterspells. In my latest list I run some months ago, I also played 1 Meditate (mainly for Doomsday) and 1 Cruel Bargain (either as a 2nd Doomsday enabler or setup card) and often found myself playing the Bargain as a setup card. So... are there any other reasons that I simply overlooked why FT doesn't run AN or is it simply a meta choice?
Btw... @ Pulp Fiction: I compared your two lists that you posted resently, while one of them is more trimmed for the AN kill the other looks like a solid Doomsday combo pile. In which meta would you run either of them? I'm thinking about putting together a similar list like your AN-list while adding a 2nd Doomsday (my meta is mostly Aggro and slow control while there's not much CB around)
Just for reference, your 2 lists :wink:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pulp_Fiction
Thanks for answering (and please excuse my bad english)Quote:
Originally Posted by Pulp_Fiction
@surly: The first list is geared towards a meta with quite a bit of control like Landstill and CB Thresh. However, if you do play in a meta with a LOT of CB Thresh then straight up Doomsday would be you best bet. This build is meant for a metagame where you will encounter blue around 60% of the time but it runs more Infernal Tutors to speed the deck up and make the aggro matches easier but it still maintains the consistent setup of straight DD.
The DD/ANT Hybrid list is meant for a seriously varied metagame. The main is supposed to be fast enough to beat random decks and basically all aggro decks before they have a chance to do anything and then after SB it tries to transform itself into the above list after you encounter CB Thresh or Landstill. This list is less aimed at beating blue and more at beating everything else while still maintaining a decent blue matchup (just not as good as the first list).
I would not play Cruel Bargain anymore as a setup spell, just run more Ponders, I have never once found a need for the card and rarely do I want to cut my life in half more than once a game. But, if it works, and you are having success with the card keep playing it, but there are better options. And if you want a second DD in the list, put it in, DDFT lists are super flexible and can adapt themselves to any meta. If your meta is a lot of aggro I would not advise another DD since DD generally doesn't speed the deck up. DD is really in the deck to help avoid hatecards and be there for the blue matchup.