For the people that really love Pithing Needle, what about Phyrexian Revoker?
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For the people that really love Pithing Needle, what about Phyrexian Revoker?
Pithing needle is one mana. Revoker is a creature and can be destroyed by a removal spell. Pithing needle is much harder to get rid of. the 2/1 body doesn't seem to help much in our deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by magicmerl
We're not a straight aggro deck. To be honest we are more control than aggro. So it is a lot more important that pithing needle costs 1 and is difficult to destroy, than having a 2/1 body that dies to every sort of removal and anyway doesn't have sinergies with any other creature in the deck.
Revoker can attack Elves since it can hit Mana abilities. That's the only advantage it has, offers no other single benefit really.
Sent from my mobile, forgive spelling and grammatical errors.
And Lion's Eye Diamond, Lotus Peal, Chrome Mox, Mox Opal, Simian Spirit Guide, Tinder Wall... still, the increase in the manacost and the 2/1 body are downgrades and not worth it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice_Box
It has been a while once again, but I finally played the deck again winning a small local turney of 16 players. 5 rounds of swiss + top4. Getting some store credit.
I modified the list that I usually play with two things in mind:
- testing mirror entity
- lowering the curve
I cut the second krenko to free space for mirror entity. They fulfill the same role: game finisher. In this way I also lowered my mana curve.
I wanted to find desperately space for the 4th MWM. I wanted to play 8 actual 2cc drops in the form of 4 MWM and 4 thalia. I had to cut something and it better be a higher casting cost so to lower the curve a bit. I chose to cut the 4th matron.
the list looked like this:
4 Goblin Lackey
4 vial
4 thalia
4 Mogg War Marshal
1 Stingscourger
3 Gempalm Incinerator
3 Goblin Matron
3 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Warchief
1 mirror entity
4 Goblin Ringleader
1 krenko
1 tuktuk scrapper
Lands
4 Wasteland
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Rishadan Port
3 Mountain
1 karakas
2 plateau
5 red fetches
//Sideboard
2 ethersworn canonist
2 angel of despair
1 Stingscourger
1 relic of progenitus
3 rest in peace
1 sharpshooter
2 pyrokinesis
3 wear//tear
MUs I faced were:
R1: shardless BUG: 2-1
R2: D&T: 1-2
R3: dark maverick: 2-0
R4: UWR delver/gheist: 2-1
R5: mono black control: 2-1
semifinals: nicfit: 2-1
finals: mono black control: 2-0
I liked the list and 4 MWM feels pretty damn solid, what a news!.
Mirror entity was surprisingly good, I fetched several times for him and vialed him in during my opponent combat to clear the board. It is good at transforming shitty late game crap (a.k.a goblin lackey) into a tarmogoyf. One of the games I won against UWR I had a bad board presence in the form of 2 token and 1 mirror entity. I was mana flooded that game but I was attacking for 18 a turn. Impressive, really. Needless to mention that your opponent will never see it coming.
chieftain and krenko confirmed to be real good once again, ending games very fast even with an engineered plague on board.
Didnt missed matron #4 all that much, I was happy to have given an extra slot to a 2 drop. I often got a matron in mid-late game anyway and that is what matters. On my opening hand it was better to see a 2 drop rather than a matron. Matron is for the late game and for ringleader flips. Before magicmerl brings this up: I m not advocating against matron #4, I am reporting that I didnt missed it during these rounds, at a smal turney.
regarding the SB I loved the 3rd wear//tear, the 2nd pyrokinesis and the 3rd rest in peace. They were last minute addition and they proved to be very good. they are gonna stay. Graveyard hate won me games against shardless BUG, nic fit and mono black control. Sharpshooter underperforment the whole turney, again. I ll cut it next time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fimo
Exactly, that matters. And thatīs the reason why you won the turney (in addition to playing good magic of course ;) ). To maximize the chance to have matron in mid-late game, play four, NEVER less.
Congrats on the win.Quote:
Originally Posted by fimo
If you could write a report for us, it would be awesome. I'd like to read how you sideboarded on those MUs, and how the games play out.
Mirror Entity is indeed an awesome card.
@Scatman, i've just read your list and i'm curious about a couple of things. How do you feel with moxes in a instigator-less build? Do they worth the slots they occupy?
Also why do you prefer Confusion in the Ranks over Angel of Despair? I mean, before the rise of the newest Omnitell version i'd have agreed with you, but now your opponent could just show for Dream Halls and win without troubles even if you show your sb enchantment
Hm, haven't thought about the Dream Halls thing yet. Around here people just play way more Sneak/ShoW, where Confusion is better, but you have a point. Angel is indeed better against the new Omnitell.Quote:
Originally Posted by Davek
And I completely love the mox in the traditional build. The CA disadvantage is barely noticed, while casting Ringleader T3 against midrange (the thing I like to do the most is, on the draw, removing that useless Lackey to play a T1 MWM), and Pliedriver T1 into Warchief T2 against combo has won me lots of games. I won't stop playing them so soon, neither will add more copies. Also, great with Ports.
thanks. I Didn t take much notes so the report will be slim, here are the highlights:Quote:
Congrats on the win.
If you could write a report for us, it would be awesome. I'd like to read how you sideboarded on those MUs, and how the games play out.
Mirror Entity is indeed an awesome card.
R1: shardless BUG: 2-1
I lost the first game due to mana starvation. I kept an awsome hand with a lot of gas, vial, a cavern and a mana denial land. I play vial and pass the turn. He decays my
vial turn 2 and then waste my cavern. By the time I get lands to play my spells there are too many tarmogoyf bashing for too much.
IN: 3 rest in peace, 2 pyrokinesis. OUT 4 thalia, 1 tuktuk.
this game is interesting, but I have a rest in peace out to keep his creatures in check. I force him to pop his pernicius deed @ 2 to clear my 2 vials, rest in peace and a couple of goblins. In response I activate my vial @ 3 to put into play a warchief which becomes my only non land permanent. next turn he plays some creatures and pass. I untap play krenko and pass. He doesn t have an answer for krenko and I win shortly after. Somewhere I see that he has a jitte.
I side out 4 lackey. In 1 relic of progenitus, 1 tuktuk, 2 wear//tear.
the third game I play a vial into lackey. he plays chill (wtf!). I have 2 mana open to pay for Pyrokinesis that clears the board and I drop from a lackey trigger krenko. he plays something. I cast a chieftan and win from there.
R2: D&T
First game I loose like an idiot because I don t expect the aven mindcensor in main board. He blanks 2 fetches which makes me mana screwed and I just loose.
IN: sharpshooter, 2 pyrokinesis, 3 wear//tear. OUT: 4 thalia, 2 MWM
I don t remember much. He plays a stoneforge. I get a mirror entity in the game pretty fast and start attacking for a million. I force him to block with all his guys clearing the board. Won the turn after.
IN: 2 MWM. OUT: 2 lackeys.
I mull too aggressively getting to 4 shitty cards. He has too many agrerssive flyers and win.
R3: dark maverick
he gets an early batterskull and start gaining a million life. I stabilize with krenko and won from there.
Sideboard the same as with D&T
pyrokinesis and gempalm keep the board clear. he has a number of removal as well but I eventually win of card advantage.
R4: UWR delver/geist
He gets a delver flip right away. I am fast as well and start the race. He wins at 1 life.
IN: sharpshooter, 2 pyrokinesis. OUT: tuktuk, 2 thalia
He plays turn one grim lavamancer. I waste 3 of his colored lands leaving him mana screwed. I deal with the lavamancer and win thereafter.
no sideboard change
Back and forth on removals. The board is quite empty but I have 6 lands and mirror entity makes my guys attack for 18 per turn.
R5: mono black control
this is a favorable MU. MWM blanks his million "sacrifice a guy" effects. thalia makes it impossible to be him. A turn 1 vial leads me to victory.
IN: 3 wear//tear, 1 relic, 1 rest in peace OUT: 1 mirror entity, 1 tuktuk, 3 lackeys
I don t remember how I lost but I guess E. plague was a big part of it.
I don t think I made any SB changes.
A turn 1 relic of progenitus blanks his bloodghast and crucible+waste lock. I win evntually.
semifinals: nic fit
First game he mulls to 4. I keep a shaky hand with a land and a vial. He abrupts decay my vial and I am sort of mana screwed but I top deck a couple of lands that lead me to victory.
IN: 3 rest in peace, 1 relic. OUT: 4 lackey
I play a turn 2 rest in peace that keeps him on check. But I don t draw enough gas and we wins bashing with some guys just in time before I stabilize.
IN: 4 lackeys OUT 2 thalia, 2 MWM.
I play a T2 rest in peace. He cannot deal with the rest in peace and I win eventually.
Finals: mono black control (same guy as before)
game one I waste his black non basic and play too many guys.
same sideboard as the previous match
game two he plays E. plague. I play a chieftain and krenko and win from there.
sorry for the lack of details but I didn t take many notes.
Thanks for the report!
have some (lots) of comments:
Manabase problem #1Quote:
Originally Posted by fimo
I need to test the MU further, but is RiP really worth it? It basically only blacks Goys, sice screw Shaman, he's not that big deal. I think Thalia might be nice here for a couple of resons: 1 - They play Shardless Agent. Well, if you have Thalia, then Agent suddently becames unriliable. 2 - They usually play E.Plague. Not only she's not a goblin, but she delays Plague (and Liliana) a hole turn, which should steal you some games.Quote:
Originally Posted by fimo
Also, don't know if I'd take the Tuktuk out, since it will most likely have a target (Jitte, Strix or Shardless), but then again, don't know what to take out on the play....
Manabase problem #2Quote:
Originally Posted by fimo
You really think the 3 Wear/Tear are worth here? I think 1, maybe 2 should do the trick, adding Tuktuk on the equation.Quote:
Originally Posted by fimo
Also, why bring in RiP against Bug (Shaman + Goyf) and don't bring in against Dark Mav (Shaman + Relicary + Zenith for them)?
Did you know if he played with Stoneforge or not? Seems risky taking out Tuktuk...Quote:
Originally Posted by fimo
Lackey seems way better than Thalia here, since well, he plays Veteran Explorer, lots of lands and creature bombs. Am I missing something? Also, his fast creature is only Veteran and Zenith, so you have a pretty good chance of connecting.Quote:
Originally Posted by fimo
Lazy too quote, but you wrote 3-4 games where Krenko straight up won you the game.
I'd like to ask, if anyone is willing, a favor: To on your reports, just state briefly how many times Caverns was good, how many times it was bad, and if it was irrelevant. I mean, at least once on the report above it was bad, you didn't stated if it was good once, and mostly it should have been irrelevant. I guess something on the end of the report as "Caverns: G-3, B-2, I-all the other games" will suffice. That would help tremendously on gathering intel. Thanks.
Thalia is very good against shardless I agree that it hurts taking her out. But I give grave hate an edge because without graveyard they cannot actually win. Thalia slows them down a ton, rest in peace prevents them from winning. With a rest in peace out they have a crappy damage output. Without tarmogoyf we have all the time in the world to find krenko and win from there. Krenko is abrupt decay-proof and it is damn hard for them to get rid of. Without tarmogoyf they cannot even protect liliana.Quote:
I need to test the MU further, but is RiP really worth it? It basically only blanks Goys, sice screw Shaman, he's not that big deal. I think Thalia might be nice here for a couple of resons: 1 - They play Shardless Agent. Well, if you have Thalia, then Agent suddently becames unriliable. 2 - They usually play E.Plague. Not only she's not a goblin, but she delays Plague (and Liliana) a hole turn, which should steal you some games.
Also, don't know if I'd take the Tuktuk out, since it will most likely have a target (Jitte, Strix or Shardless), but then again, don't know what to take out on the play....
E.plague is very good against us. That's the main reason I brought in wear//tear. However I think it is doable. Back on the grave hate argument: if they don t have any pressure on board we will have time to find our +1/+1 effects and nutralize E.plague effect. Krenko + chieftain is gg even in front of a E.plague. Looking at the deck I have 9 answers to E.plague: 3 wear//tear and 6 goblins (3 matrons + 3 chieftains without counting the ringleader factor). This means that I will very likely find at least 1 answer to it every game, possibly even 2. E.plague is very good but by no means the end of the world if you play chieftain or boartusk liege.
I agree on the tuktuk, it would be nice to have. But it is hard to cut stuff... having 3 wear//tear post SB I think it is ok to leave tuktuk out.
Equipments is the only thing I fear about maverick-like decks. Krenko + chieftain combo is consistently faster than knight of the reliquary bashing. I feel that if I can keep their equipments out of the board I will most likely win. So I want to maximize my equipment hate first of all. Knight of the reliquary is a whole turn slower in being big-scary than tarmogoyf so I don t feel as much pressure. Another reason for not boarding rest in peace is that Knight of the reliquary decks are very efficient in anhilating mana bases. They can tutor for wastelands with knight of the reliquary so I prefer to fech for basics. Wear//tear made this much easier because we can actually destroy equipments without fetching for duals.Quote:
You really think the 3 Wear/Tear are worth here? I think 1, maybe 2 should do the trick, adding Tuktuk on the equation.
Also, why bring in RiP against Bug (Shaman + Goyf) and don't bring in against Dark Mav (Shaman + Relicary + Zenith for them)?
Overall, I like to have "soft" GY hate in the form of relic of progenitus against them because it is colorless and it cycles. I wouldn t commit myself on rest in peace but I think it is an ok choice anyway. Different story with punishing maverick.......
I didn t see stoneforge but I agree it was too risky. It was probably a mistake on my side.Quote:
Did you know if he played with Stoneforge or not? Seems risky taking out Tuktuk...
the point is that they gain a ton if you trade your lackey with their veteran explorer. they want their explorer to die. They are extremely mana hungry so I felt like mana starvation would be the worst thing for him. I saw many non creature spells: discard, planeswalkers, deed, decay, green sun zenith, top. But I could very well be wrong in this.Quote:
Lackey seems way better than Thalia here, since well, he plays Veteran Explorer, lots of lands and creature bombs. Am I missing something? Also, his fast creature is only Veteran and Zenith, so you have a pretty good chance of connecting.
yes krenko rocks pretty hard.Quote:
Lazy too quote, but you wrote 3-4 games where Krenko straight up won you the game.
I have to say that caverns have been irrelevant this turney. I met nearly 0 countermagic and I often had an active vial in play. But they didn t hurt all that much either. If I played mountains instead of caverns I might have won the first game against shardless BUG. But it is a game out of 19... or he could have wasted something else...Quote:
I'd like to ask, if anyone is willing, a favor: To on your reports, just state briefly how many times Caverns was good, how many times it was bad, and if it was irrelevant. I mean, at least once on the report above it was bad, you didn't stated if it was good once, and mostly it should have been irrelevant. I guess something on the end of the report as "Caverns: G-3, B-2, I-all the other games" will suffice. That would help tremendously on gathering intel. Thanks.
I'm thinking about changing my main deck, because maybe I'll buy two copies of Plateau next month. What do you think about this list?
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Mountain
2 Plateau
2 Arid Mesa
2 Wooded Foothills
Do you prefer to include 22 lands or 23? Regards.
I go with 3 Mountain and 6 FetchesQuote:
Originally Posted by cronos
Most if not all of the multi-colored lists doing well on SCG have been running 23 lands while mono red lists have been running 22. That seems pretty good I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Humphrey
Green Brothers,
I have a small champ tomorrow, but I have no idea of what decks will be there. What goblin list should I try?
MonoR or Thalia RW or RG for tin street + krosan grip? =x
Thx
I like either rw or mono red. Mono red is my personal favorite but I think rw is better and more well positioned right now. Depends on your meta really. If there are lots of unfair decks, play white. If there are many decks like shardless and RUG, try mono R with blood moon.Quote:
Originally Posted by max_goblin
To sum up...Quote:
Originally Posted by max_goblin
- MonoR: maybe the best against aggro and aggro-control decks.
- Thalia RW: much better than the other one against control and combo decks.
- RG: depends on your metagame, if there are artifacts or not.
Presently, I'm playing MonoR version and I'm quite happy with it. Next month, maybe I'll buy Plateau... but I'm not sure ;) . Regards.
Oooo, real bad Goblins punt against Hypergenesis just happened on the SCG feed. Ouch.