[Primer] Elves!

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Originally Posted by mistercakes

anyone else notice that the 80 card elf deck won a GP trial (same deck from a few weeks ago)? would love to hear some stories behind this thing.

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not at all the same deck: I remove most of the land package, keeping only 1 wasteland as an unusual target MD (still pendle, fetchs, dryad, CoS and mainly Cradle there anyway) and 1 crop MD, and shaved off NO and NO targets (removed Ruric, Regal and Elderscale) but added 4 Fauna and a Fauna package :)

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Originally Posted by Capt4in

This guy is a madman. I'd love to see his thoughts on the deck.

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Thanks :)

So first, the "big" version is slower and overall a bit less good than the classical or the chaos one.
Otherwise we are favored against anything which is not combo, and do not have any shot at winning any combo MUs.

There is two things that can drives you to play the deck: the first one is that any single game is really unique, while before I felt like every game was a bit similar to some of the ones I've already experienced. The second one is to have opponents which are smiling and most of them, even if they lose, are happy to have played against something that surprised them.

No competitive reasons thought should push you to run more than 60/61 cards MD. But it is a lot of fun.
And you can still win a lot of games, this WE I won enough points to go back with a tropical island, a bunch of boosters and singles that I wanted.
And I had much more fun than I ever had playing regular elves :)

Otherwise congrats abombdiggity, nice performance!

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Originally Posted by abombdiggity

11-4 at GP Columbus.
Two Byes
R3- D&T, Win
R4- Miracles, Loss
R5- Dredge, Loss
R6- BG Turbo Depths, Loss
R7- Enchantress, Win
R8- D&T, Win
R9- D&T, Win
Snuck into day 2, got lucky and got to play Death and Taxes a few times.
R10- Infect, Win
R11- Grixis Delver, Win
R12- ANT, Win
R13- Grixis Delver, Loss
R14- D&T, Win
R15- Sneak and Show, Win

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So there was another elves! My friends told me I was the only elves player to day 2...
You stole all my good matchups tho, ;(...instead I got miracles x2, reanimator, and esper stoneblade. I went x-5 in rd 14 and dropped to get a head start back home.

Was your finish good for $250??

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Originally Posted by Shagstaman

So there was another elves! My friends told me I was the only elves player to day 2...
You stole all my good matchups tho, ;(...instead I got miracles x2, reanimator, and esper stoneblade. I went x-5 in rd 14 and dropped to get a head start back home.

Was your finish good for $250??

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I believe there were quite a few of us. I day 2'd with NO, but ended up x-5 after round 15. I know Reid Duke also won out on day 2 with Elves. Two of my opponents had also played elves pilots on day 2. My losses ended up being 2x Storm, 1x Omni Sneak, 1x aggro loam, and 1x sneak attack. I might post a report later.

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Originally Posted by Shagstaman

So there was another elves! My friends told me I was the only elves player to day 2...
You stole all my good matchups tho, ;(...instead I got miracles x2, reanimator, and esper stoneblade. I went x-5 in rd 14 and dropped to get a head start back home.

Was your finish good for $250??

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I think the report they posted was the top 100 decks from day 1, which I believe was x-2 and up or very close. I ended at 100th place exactly. My losses were very early and only one, the turbo depths player, ended up making day two so my tiebreakers were shit.

How many NO were you on? I do think the meta was good for the full 4. Other than miracles and sometimes Grixis Delver I don't want four, but it was so good for my specific matchups (I keep all 4 in against Storm because I wanted to lower the threat density while still comboing quickly). Definitely got my share of decent matchups, although beating storm and Infect on the draw I was very happy with.

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Originally Posted by Shagstaman

So there was another elves! My friends told me I was the only elves player to day 2...
You stole all my good matchups tho, ;(...instead I got miracles x2, reanimator, and esper stoneblade. I went x-5 in rd 14 and dropped to get a head start back home.

Was your finish good for $250??

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I also made day 2 with elves; the misconception is that wizard's site just posted the top 100 decks for day 2 where only 1 elves was in it.

My matches were as follows:
Rnd 1 & Rnd 2 - Byes
Rnd 3 - Win - 2-1 Miracles (against my friend that I travelled with, he also had two byes...)
Rnd 4 - Loss - 0-2 Storm
Rnd 5 - Loss - 0-2 UR Delver
Rnd 6 - Win - 2-1 Sneak & Show
Rnd 7 - Win - 2-1 4C Stoneblade
Rnd 8 - Loss - 0-2 4C Aggro Loam
Rnd 9 - Win - 2-0 Dark Maverick

Rnd 10 - Loss - 1-2 Infect
Rnd 11 - Loss - 1-2 Dredge

Then I dropped to play vintage 12PM event.

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Originally Posted by dte

not at all the same deck: I remove most of the land package, keeping only 1 wasteland as an unusual target MD (still pendle, fetchs, dryad, CoS and mainly Cradle there anyway) and 1 crop MD, and shaved off NO and NO targets (removed Ruric, Regal and Elderscale) but added 4 Fauna and a Fauna package :)

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Can you please give us a link to your decklist?
Is Fauna package Fauna Shaman and Vengevine?
I am also trying to build some fun elf deck and also playing Fauna Shamans.
Thanks.

I got destroyed with Eldrazi at GP Prague (5:4), but gained some revenge with NO Elves at the Sideevent (cashed for 1,5 Display Boxes and 2nd Stoneforge Promo etc.).

Best story vs Miracle:

My opponent had 2x Top and a couple of lands. I starting a Glimpse after the first terminus. I decided to hold on with Cradle-Mana, which made it not so easy to gain enough Mana (only 1 Nettle) and i cost me 2 Activations from our little Insect Friend to keep it rolling. Since Glimpse attempt worked, i reached the Point of "Combo it out and win the game or lose to Terminus". Now my plan was, get enough Mana (without Cradle) for Zenith-Rec Sage (kill Top 1), get a free Symbiote (the 3rd), bounce Sage, play Sage (kill Top 2), my opponent responded with "tap/draw/Terminus" (as expected!). In Response i activate Cradle (for 14 Mana). My field was clear now. My hand had a couple of lands and 1 Hoof, 1 NO and 1 Zenith. I play Zenith for Arbor, cast Hoof, NO-Arbor for 2nd Hoof and attacked for the win. Man that was a great feeling to crush Miracle this way.

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Originally Posted by MD.Ghost

I got destroyed with Eldrazi at GP Prague (5:4), but gained some revenge with NO Elves at the Sideevent (cashed for 1,5 Display Boxes and 2nd Stoneforge Promo etc.).

Best story vs Miracle:

My opponent had 2x Top and a couple of lands. I starting a Glimpse after the first terminus. I decided to hold on with Cradle-Mana, which made it not so easy to gain enough Mana (only 1 Nettle) and i cost me 2 Activations from our little Insect Friend to keep it rolling. Since Glimpse attempt worked, i reached the Point of "Combo it out and win the game or lose to Terminus". Now my plan was, get enough Mana (without Cradle) for Zenith-Rec Sage (kill Top 1), get a free Symbiote (the 3rd), bounce Sage, play Sage (kill Top 2), my opponent responded with "tap/draw/Terminus" (as expected!). In Response i activate Cradle (for 14 Mana). My field was clear now. My hand had a couple of lands and 1 Hoof, 1 NO and 1 Zenith. I play Zenith for Arbor, cast Hoof, NO-Arbor for 2nd Hoof and attacked for the win. Man that was a great feeling to crush Miracle this way.

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looool :D crazy story :)

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Originally Posted by jattra

Can you please give us a link to your decklist?
Is Fauna package Fauna Shaman and Vengevine?
I am also trying to build some fun elf deck and also playing Fauna Shamans.
Thanks.

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Here you are: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=12670&d=273386&f=LE
But add at least the 4th Fauna, it's that good.

I didn't try vengevine because they seem to be slow as hell and that there is almost always better things to do.
But maybe they are good, I wouldn't know :)

Back from GP Prague and working on a longer report. Here'sn the tl;dr: switched to NO after encoutnering way too many Eldrazi decks in Prague on Thursday and Friday. Friend of mine still stuck to Chaos Elves and went 11-3-1 with it.

Here's my matches:

Round 1 — *BYE*
Round 2 — ANT — 2:0 WIN (Feature Match)
Round 3 — Miracles — 2:0 WIN
Round 4 — Imperial Painter — 2:0 WIN
Round 5 — Eldrazi — 2:1 WIN
Round 6 — Miracles — 0:2 LOSS (Tomáš Vlček)
Round 7 — 4c Delver — 2:1 WIN
Round 8 — Omni Sneak Show — 1:2 LOSS (Jonathan Anghelescu)
Round 9 — BUG Delver — 2:0 WIN

7-2 after Day1 in ~92nd place.

Round 10 — Eldrazi — 0:2 LOSS
Round 11 — Eldrazi — 1:2 LOSS
Round 12 — TES — 1:2 LOSS
Round 13 — Miracles — 2:0 WIN
Round 14 — RG Lands — 1:2 LOSS
Round 15 — BUG Delver — 2:0 WIN

Day2 was quite disappointing as I didn't really get to play Magic on 4 out of 6 rounds. Longer report later this week. This is the list I played:

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Elvish Visionary
3 Heritage Druid
2 Birchlore Rangers
2 Craterhoof Behemoth
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Reclamation Sage

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Glimpse of Nature
3 Natural Order
1 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Gaea's Cradle
3 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
2 Bayou
2 Forest
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Pendelhaven
2 Dryad Arbor
61 cards

SB:
4 Thoughtseize
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Pithing Needle
1 Elderscale Wurm
1 Choke
1 Garruk Relentless'

Put in Jitte as the sudo 4th Natural Order. This is now something like the 4th tournament in a row where that card has *far and away* been the best card in the entire deck for me. Seriously considering adding a 2nd copy to the board; since I always cut all Natural Orders against Delver decks, it's nice to have other high-impact cards that are much easier to resolve.

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Originally Posted by dte

Here you are: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=12670&d=273386&f=LE
But add at least the 4th Fauna, it's that good.

I didn't try vengevine because they seem to be slow as hell and that there is almost always better things to do.
But maybe they are good, I wouldn't know :)

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Thanks for the list!

Actually, I never had any success with Vengevines even though I wish it would work :)

How are you chaining mana with only a single Nettle Sentinel?

Birchlore + a lot of 1-drops..?

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Originally Posted by jattra

Thanks for the list!

Actually, I never had any success with Vengevines even though I wish it would work :)

How are you chaining mana with only a single Nettle Sentinel?

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Untapping KotR into cradleS?

The trick is to play fewer 1 drop (I didn't lose a match from CotV or CB since quite some time) to play more impactful cards. Then you do not need to chain mana like crazy.

The drawback is to be as slow as an arthritic slug and lose to combo MUs.
The single Nettle is more here for the infinite mana/creatures/draws combo, I cannot remove it because of that. otherwise far from being as good as in normal elves.

GP Prague: 3-4-1 drop.

Decklist:

Creature (29)
1x Birchlore Rangers
2x Craterhoof Behemoth
4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Elvish Visionary
3x Heritage Druid
1x Llanowar Elves
4x Nettle Sentinel
3x Quirion Ranger
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Shaman of the Pack
4x Wirewood Symbiote
1x Wren's Run Packmaster

Land (20)
2x Bayou
1x Cavern of Souls
2x Dryad Arbor
1x Forest
4x Gaea's Cradle
1x Pendelhaven
1x Savannah
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills

Sorcery (11)
4x Glimpse of Nature
4x Green Sun's Zenith
3x Natural Order

Sideboard (15)
3x Abrupt Decay
2x Cabal Therapy
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Null Rod
1x Pithing Needle
1x Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
1x Scavenging Ooze
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Sylvan Library
2x Thoughtseize

I arrived at the hotel on friday around 21:00, but my friend arrived at 1:30 AM. So we drank couple beers and went to bed around 3:00 AM. That means before this tournament we had 4 hours of sleep. And thus the result was like this.

Round 1: 2-1 vs Punishing Jund.
Best play error from me: top deck and play Wren's Run Packmaster to an empty board. I haven't played WRP before and thus made that stupid error when my brain shut down for one minute. Other than that, I was able to win, even game 3 when he had -1/-1 to all elves on board (Engineered Plague) with just playing non-elf creatures, nettle sentinel and then go for NO into behemoth.

Round 2: 2-1 vs ANT
Cant remember anything about this game except that my opponent was from Denmark and he was in a hangover.

Round 3: 0-2 vs ANT or TES
First game I mulled to four, he put 10 goblin tokens to board on turn 1. Second game he just went off 1 turn before me.

Round 4: 2-1 vs Infect
We both did what we do best, but I was faster two times.

Round 5: 0-2 vs UR delver
I felt like playing against better version of burn. He had insane starts and I could do nothing against that.

Round 6: 1-2 (1-1-1) vs Lands
Played against a fellow Finn. We both were 3-2 and were going to have a tie. In 5th extra turn we halted the game for a second to discuss things and decided that either of us should scoop so that the other one has easier try to get to day 2, since you needed 6-3-0 or better for day two. In the end, I decided to scoop to him, because he wasnt so tired as I was and he had better deck for current meta.

Round 7: 1-1-1 vs Miracles
Tie on 5th extra turn because he tapped the wrong mana for brainstorm and I was able to jump block a tie. I hate the deck so much so I decided to take him "with me" by getting a tie instead of scooping. At this point I was 3-3-1 so no day 2 for me. Decided to stay for one more round for fun.

Round 8: 0-2 vs Food Chain
I have never played against this deck or even seen it being played before. No answers against his turn 3 combo.

Lessons learned:
* Don't play WRP to empty board. Though the card itself is great. It got me so many wins just because WRP + Cradle is so much value.
* Shaman of the Pack is pretty okay in main, I like it better than Scavenging Ooze, since it deals damage through trigger and can win games where I cannot attack.
* I think 3x NO is enough. I felt like I had one when I needed one but never had two in my hand.
* 1-of Cavern of Souls is not enough if deck runs Caverns. You never get it in the game you need it. Might as well play a Forest in that slot so that you have easier time against Wastelands.
* Always fetch Forest first. ALWAYS. Even if you open with Deathrite Shaman.
* Gaddock Teeg is a good sideboard card.
* Get more sleep before a tournament of that caliper.

On sunday I saw dte playing such a weird version of elves, with like 78 cards or something. Whaaaat! Please post your decklist, it looked so much fun! Synergy with Titania, Protector of Argoth + fetchlands + jump-blocking Dryad Arbors seemed so much value.

NINJA-EDIT: ah dte already posted David Teze's 82 elves list. Gotta check that out.

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Originally Posted by Julian23

SB:
4 Thoughtseize
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Pithing Needle
1 Elderscale Wurm
1 Choke
1 Garruk Relentless[/CARDS]'

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Couple questions/comments about the sideboard. Elderscale Wurm seems very good against the decks attacking the life total - burn, eldrazi, etc. I don't believe eldrazi has any way to deal with it - seems good. Would you also bring it in against a deck like lands where I don't believe they have a way to deal with it? How about against delver strategies? Could you comment on the thoughtseize/therapy split? Normally we see more therapies compared to thoughtseize. Is the lack of therapy because of an uptick in plays like turn 1 chalice, where missing with a therapy is very bad against say turn 2 thought-knot seer? I know in the past there have been krosan grips in the board for miracles and perhaps other random targets- is there an uptick in 3 drops in miracles? I imagine needles, choke, and garruk do good work, just curious if you haven't liked k grip.

Cheers!

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Originally Posted by goggs

Couple questions/comments about the sideboard. Elderscale Wurm seems very good against the decks attacking the life total - burn, eldrazi, etc. I don't believe eldrazi has any way to deal with it - seems good.

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Eldrazi do have All Is Dust, but usually it's a 2 of or so.

Julian, see you went back to playing Natural order? How's that?

I was about to suggest playing a combination of both NO Elves! and Chaos elves when Animal's list popped up.
I was thinking about playing exactly a list like that. Maybe with 2 cavern of souls though (and minus 1 fetch or dryad arbor).

Playing 3 natural orders and 2 crater hoofs
But ALSO playing the WrP and the shaman of the pack MB.
This way we can combo with hoof but still have a backup plan in case of counter on NO or a glacial chasm etc.
What are your opinions?

For 2 Cavern of Souls I would cut Savannah (and Teeg from the side) and one Forest. You can play the deck with one Forest and because you are playing NO, you definitely want 2x Dryad Arbor. Also playing Deathrite Shaman means you want at least 8x fetches. I noticed that I cannot count my opponent to be always fetching on turn one or two.

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Originally Posted by goggs

I don't believe eldrazi has any way to deal with it - seems good. Would you also bring it in against a deck like lands where I don't believe they have a way to deal with it?

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Beside All is dust, the more common answer for Eldrazi is Jitte, which is at least a 2-off MD.
Endbringer taking care of your board + jitte and Elderscale won't help. Endbringer + cotv and they can wait for jitte.

If you ever need to attack with the Elderscale, dismember + block by mimic/Revoker/Mishra is also a thing.

However, Elderscale out is really amazing against Eldrazi. It just isn't completely game over for them, just like Ruric is not for ANT (but close enough for us).

The good cards vs eldrazi are WRP, jitte, NO, GSZ, Rec, CoS. Yes, Eldrazis are big, but jitte is still completely insane against them, allowing your creatures to be bigger than theirs.

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Originally Posted by dte

The good cards vs eldrazi are WRP, jitte, NO, GSZ, Rec, CoS. Yes, Eldrazis are big, but jitte is still completely insane against them, allowing your creatures to be bigger than theirs.

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Yes! I play both decks and Jitte is not bad vs Eldrazi, especially with a swarm deck and a lot of cheap dudes.

Still unsure if it is good to play Jitte over Library main. Both cards are random 1offs (except if you want more copies at Side) that can win games. Jitte can be online the turn you play it, while Library will not anything until your next turn. There are pros and cons either way.

My current ideas vs Eldrazi are: Natural Order is a good card, i also want WRP at my 75 cards (card is also great vs Miracles, BGx etc.) and i also added a 2nd Rec. Sage at Side (Counterbalance/Chalice) over a 4th Decay because i liked that Sage is tuturable, reusable and afterall a 2/1 Beater (which is both better vs Miracle and Eldrazi compared to "fire-and-forget" Decay). But maybe this muchup needs more adjustments (2x Jitte and/or Glissa, the Traitor since First Strike+Deathtouch means: wreak havoc with Eldrazi)