Nice, Top 8 by Miracles!Quote:
Originally Posted by Minniehajj
I wonder what the sideboard SFMs + Batterskull are for.
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Nice, Top 8 by Miracles!Quote:
Originally Posted by Minniehajj
I wonder what the sideboard SFMs + Batterskull are for.
If you read back the past page or so, you'll see why :) And we aren't playing that package anymoreQuote:
Originally Posted by FZA
https://www.twitch.tv/itisunfair
ItIsUnfair streaming Unpredictable Miracles (even though his portents are wrong)
...And duals, and forces and mostly every other card in his deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Minniehajj
FeelsBadMan.
Anders Thiesen is also streaming with the deck:
https://www.twitch.tv/alakazimdk
Just 5-0'd. Only game loss was g1 against infect on their mull to 5 :laugh:
Nice one! What was the list you played?Quote:
Originally Posted by itrytostorm
4 FloodedQuote:
Originally Posted by Whitefaces
4 Tarn
1 Mesa
1 Karakas
3 Tundra
5 Island
2 Plains
3 Snap
1 Clique
4 Portent
4 Ponder
4 Terminus
1 Entreat
4 Predict
4 Brainstorm
4 FoW
3 Counterspell
3 STP
2 UA
3 JTMS
Sideboard?Quote:
Originally Posted by itrytostorm
2 SurgicalQuote:
Originally Posted by Minniehajj
3 Fluster
1 BEB
2 Mentor
1 Cavern
1 Venser
1 Teferi
4 Canonist
Just a random thought, could we just replace the EtA and the lone Clique with 2 mentors and 2-3 cliques come out from the board for certain match-ups?
It seems to me that mentor is a much compact finisher than EtA and a better 'steal a game' win-con in bad match-ups.
Just 5-0'd again. Only change was a Gideon Ally over the 4th Canonist.
Congrats! Would you mind telling us how's Teferi and Venser working for you? Don't you think they are too slow?Quote:
Originally Posted by itrytostorm
Thanks!
What are our general thoughts on AOZ vs Mentor out of the board? Mentor has been great for me in yet ANOTHER 4-1 close miss, but Gideon just dominates the control matchups.
Nice work! I'm also interested to hear how the Cavern + Venser and Teferi package is working.Quote:
Originally Posted by itrytostorm
Mentor is more potent from the sideboard as people generally sideboard out their removal vs us. Clique, especially with Karakas, and Entreat are very good vs removal. I think the one of Entreat is key to how the deck plays.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jsang
AOZ is great, as is Mentor, I could see both being really strong. I think I prefer Mentor, but would be interested if you get a chance to try Gideon!Quote:
Originally Posted by jdmdave
Send me some of your winnings and I'll buy ole gids.
As for sideboarding, are we just following the same general gameplan with the old miracles lists in the various matchups? For e.g. vs BUG Leovold, -4 Force -1 Spell Pierce, -1 Predict, +2 Mentor +1 Clique +3 Blast
Against which decks do you board canonist? My guess is at least ANT and Food Chain, but they both used to run Abrupt Decay, at least in the past. Is Canonist still worth it against that?
What about the Karakas Package, essential or do you see alternatives to that?
No, I think quite a lot has changed, I'm approaching it all completely anew. I leave in FoW a lot more than I used to, but then I used to leave it it more than most before anyway. I don't think I've been boarding down to less than three vs anything now. But I could well be wrong, I'm still trying to work lots of things out myself. I think Predict is one of our best cards vs BUG decks, I wouldn't shave one of those. Since you have access to Blasts though, going down on a couple more FoW makes sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by jdmdave
Storm mostly, they can beat a wall of countermagic easily. I believe you need two out of the following to beat them; 1) Countermagic 2) Discard 3) Hate permanents. Counterbalance was our number three before, now we're trying Canonist. It also comes in vs Food Chain and Aluren, which are both tough matchups.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobal
Almost all ANT players have dropped Decay which is fantastic for us. Canonist gives you a good gameplan, just don't play cantrips carelessly when you don't need to if you have countermagic, this gives them a window to play Fatal Push, Hurkyls Recall or Echoing Truth at the end of our turn.
I don't see the Karakas package as essential at all, Karakas is just a bit of a freeroll with the manabase.
What's your current iteration? Might give it a spin at my local legacy tournament todayQuote:
Originally Posted by Minniehajj
This is my specific list, but it is not as well tested as the ones by Whitefaces or ItIsUnfair:Quote:
Originally Posted by MorphBerlin
// 60 Maindeck
// 4 Creature
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
// 20 Instant
4 Brainstorm
4 Predict
3 Unexpectedly Absent
2 Swords to Plowshares
4 Force of Will
3 Counterspell
// 20 Land
1 Arid Mesa
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Tundra
2 Plains
5 Island
1 Karakas
// 3 Planeswalker
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
// 13 Sorcery
4 Ponder
4 Portent
4 Terminus
1 Entreat the Angels
// 15 Sideboard
// 6 Creature
SB: 2 Monastery Mentor
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Containment Priest
SB: 1 Vendilion Clique
// 2 Enchantment
SB: 2 Back to Basics
// 7 Instant
SB: 3 Flusterstorm
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Hydroblast
SB: 1 Swords to Plowshares
My list is 60/60 identical in the main, but sideboard is slightly different
* 3 Pyroblast
* 2 Mentor
* 1 Containment
* 2 Ethersworn
* 2 Blood Moon
* 2 Flusterstorm
* 2 Surgical
* 1 Vendilion Clique
Do you guys want me to create a discord channel fire IRL discussion? We could always hijack the legacy sub-channel of the /r/spikes discord channel.
http://i.imgur.com/NRGvdWN.png
In case anyone was curious. The 1-0 over Merfolk I won with 5 cards in library at 1 life. He quit since he had 8 minutes left on his clock. UB Delver I won after a Lily ultimate game 1. And Jarvis streamed the lands one. That match felt unwinnable G1. I drew very well to take it down.
Nice job! You're punishing Waterfalls! I am a mod/friend of Jarvis and you drew insane g2 and g3, like, holy shit!Quote:
Originally Posted by itrytostorm
Go ahead and set it up! Would love to chat about it in real time. Also, mind posting the main deck once again alongside the sideboard so that we have a reference?Quote:
Originally Posted by jdmdave
My 7 game 3 was perfect, but no blue source. Game 2 I mull and forced aggressively and it payed off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Minniehajj
On another note, if you're friends with Jarvis, ask him if he remembers facing a Mono Black Devotion deck at GP DC a few years ago. That was me also :cool:
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles...gue-2017-05-23
Three more, might be time to bring the Volcs back.
Stop doing well dammit! :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitefaces
This deck will remain in New & Developmental until we get a big paper top 8, which will probably be soon.
How has the Entreat felt for you guys? It seems like it'd be even more inconsistent than most 1-ofs. Stoneforge is too many maindeck slots to use in its place, maybe a single Gideon of the Trials would work well in that slot? The card seems like it would be good against Burn, plays very well with Terminus, and provide OK clock speed.
Nothing compares to the power level of Entreat in the late game, which is where we want it. It's rare to ever cast it until you've got the game under control, then you clock the opponent before they're able to get back in the game. If you play the deck a bunch you'll realize that it's an invaluable tool for the deck.
You said "seems like it'd be". So you haven't played at all with it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Arschmann
The card is crazy good. It's usually a 2 turn clock, max. At instant speed. Idk how with 4 Portent, 4 Ponder, 4 Brainstorm, 4 Predict, 3 JTSM, 3 Snapcaster, you think it'd be inconsistent.
Adding on to this a little bit, this deck draws cards at a higher rate than that of regular miracles, so as the match grinds down, you're much more likely to find your one of copy EtA and you'll often end games with <5 cards in your library because of your ability to chain cantrips and such together.Quote:
Originally Posted by itrytostorm
Try to guess which archetype has the most MTGO 5-0s (10) since 5/17, when osmanozguney first got one with Topless Miracles.
More than Grixis, more than Sneak, more than ANT. Go on, guess.
Miracles :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott
There have also been at least 5 that have not been reported.
Hey guys, would 4 predicts be the general consensus for the new core?
No, I was busy all weekend and yesterday and was playing jdmdave's older list beforeQuote:
Originally Posted by itrytostorm
I think the results of you and the other players are really impressive, but I can't help but feel like the card is vestigial, as Jadine Klomparens puts it.
http://www.starcitygames.com/article...ial-Lists.html
She uses the term to describe a card that doesn't do as much as it used to because of changes in the game or meta (in this case, the SDT ban). Terminus is not a vestigial card because the amount of power we lost moving to our new cantrip setup is offset by meta changes that make Terminus better, and it is already an extremely high-powered sweeper to begin with. Entreat seems like a different story. Back in the pre-ban days, highly skilled Miracles players like Thomas Mechin and Anders Thiesen ran it as a 2-of because SDT gave it incredible consistency when you needed to close out a game. Now, that consistency seems like it has really diminished for several reasons: first, we can only support it as a 1-of, and it is also more inconsistent because SDT is gone and its replacement, Portent, seems like it would activate it during the opponent's upkeep, which is not really when you would play it before. If you set it up with a Predict, you are spending 2 mana to do so, which is a non-trivial loss of efficiency for a XWW spell. The worst case scenario is when you just draw Entreat and none of these, since it's uncastable under normal circumstances.
Besides Gideon, Mentor seems like it may be a stronger option in that slot. It does not close out games quite as fast but it also synergizes with the cantrip core and requires less setup as well as being more mana efficient.
Anyway, you and ItIsUnfair are much better players than me anyway so if you think it's good it probably is
Good points, it's 100% possible that Mentor is a good replacement but the deck is unique that it totally blanks things like decay and push and bolt, to some extent, and Entreat is unique in that it allows you to win when you have "set up shop" where Mentor requires a higher mana investment. This is simply 1 iteration of the deck, and, just like regular miracles, development and different variants will inevitably crop up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Arschmann
Do you guys consider green splash for Sylvan Library? This might make the deck softer to decay (since CB might be worth to put back), but its interations with the rest of the deck are crazy good.
I played the First list from itsunfair last weekend. The deck is real gas. Cant wait to play It again this Sunday. This time using STP main deck. Will put the cards together on mtgo next month and start the testing with you guys.
Enviado de meu XT1097 usando Tapatalk
Hi all!
Long time reader, first time poster!
I've followed this forum for almost 2 years now, since I started playing Legacy which became my main format to play magic! At this point I wanted to thank you all for the great content provided by all the members, it gave ma a lot of insight and help in the process of learning how to play miracles. For over 6 months I have been playing several BUG shells but now the time has come to sleeve up thos Termini again ;)
I do not play Magic Online, however, I do test a lot with skilled players either on paper at my LGS or on Xmage.
I already have several matches in with the "stocklist" provided by ItisUnfair or WhiteFaces and as many will agree, it feels really good.
The only change I did make however, was cutting the lonesome Clique and the EtA for 2 Monastery Mentors and I am really pleased with the outcome.
My reasoning behind the MD mentors is that I want my wincons not requiering "Set Up". Sure, with all those cantrips and predicts it can be done but most of the time it seems very slow and manaintensive. When I draw my Mentors I play very conservatively and only slam them If I either have counter back up, the coast is clear in the first place or if I know that I can get at least 2 monks out of the deal in response to a removal spell that is targeted on Mentor. Also, he provides an insanely fast clock in early/midgame when needed while develpoing a not unsignificant boardpresence which sometimes is very welcome due to most list's trimmed down STPs.
All in all i found this iteration very consistent.
But don't get me wrong, I love EtA. Back in SDT days I was playing 2 with no mentors in the 75. However, I really think that the Monk producing machine in the MD has its perks.
And this is why I've moved EtA into the SB for decks like DNT, Lands and any non "force of will" midrange match-up, which I am very happy with.
My list is the current stock list -1 clique -1 EtA and +2 Mentor.
SB:
3 fluster
2 surgical
2 containment priest
1 EtA
1 STP
2 B2B
2 canonist
2 clique
Maybe I am completely wrong. But also, maybe some of you MTGO grinders might try MD out for several games and we should come to a conclusion on which build is better ;)
I like Clique in this deck because it is highly synergistic with our draw-go strategy that heavily manipulates the draw step and you can reset stray miracles in your hand with it or use it as a Terminus trigger in an emergency. 3 power in the air is an OK clock.