[Deck] Goblins

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jrw1985

Bind

---

How many would you want to put in? Personally I have 2 felx slots that already serve a good purpose but of course could be replaced with some gamebreaking tech. I feel like 3 could be the right number, perhaaaaps four.
Regarding to its relefance: IMO Stifle is underplayed. There are so many decks, with our own leading the way, that can be crippled by this spell. If you have the space try it and feel free to share results :) Green opens your SB to Krosan Grip and a MD hooligan one-off. With those and Bind you will cakewalk one of our worst matchups -> Esper Blade and as long as you get to two mana even blowout Belcher with instant speed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jrw1985

Has anyone ever experimented with this card in Goblins or a similar deck? And if you haven't, do you think it's worth testing? Or is it just too cute?

---

I've actually been testing this card, well the blue version, Squelch, in Modern Fish, and it is really useful. One of the problems about it is the it is kinda slow, and though it is never card disadvantage and might be better, it stops us from playing proactive aggressive threats, especially if we try to "stifle" a fetchland. It would definitely help stop Mystic and maybe even hold off jitte for just long enough, so it might be worth a try...as sideboard probably.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dice_Box

I like it. I think it can help overall because it will allow that streamlining of both topics and lower confusion for those looking to learn about these kinds of cards. If something is coming up a lot its likely making enough of an impact that streamlining the conversations would help.

As for is we can see ourselves using this info, yes, I think we will. I mean the trick with using Vial in response to its own trigger was something I learnt here. Any other tricks that are picked up I would use. Streamlining everything to a stream of posts that can be found with ease, then read over to see what the thoughts of those talking about the card are would help both those of us that have been playing this deck for years and those that are new. Because there is a strong chance any questions one may have are answered in those posts that are in response to the quoted stating post.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jrw1985

I was going through my rare binder the other day when I came across a card which I've never seen played in Legacy, but which looks like it could somehow be decent in a Rg goblins deck: Bind. This card is basically a green Stifle, but it's more expensive, can't hit triggered abilities, and it also cantrips. The Cantrip is what makes me think this could be a feasible card. Being able to counter a Wasteland or a Fetch while drawing a card seems like a killer tempo boost, especially while on the play (obviously). But there are plenty of uses for it on the draw also. There isn't a deck in the format that doesn't run fetches (Bind could just be Wasteland #5-8), so Bind is always a live card, and having an out in your hand to a Batterskull or SFM activation doesn't seem too terrible. And, yes, it can also prevent a planeswalker ultimate.

Has anyone ever experimented with this card in Goblins or a similar deck? And if you haven't, do you think it's worth testing? Or is it just too cute?

---

I don't like it. This card will oftentimes be a dead draw, or you have to target a close-to-irrelevant activated ability (like the "black" ability of DRS) to make use of the cycling at least. For me the card reads like this:

Bind
off-colormanacost
Instant
When something uneventful happens, this card card might be useful. Draw a card.

Its not really a good move to counter Belcher's activation (even less so if you need to have 1R by the time they go off). Neither is it an outstanding thing to delay a Batterskull for one turn (even less so if your slot could instead be a Tarfire).
Hitting Wasteland and or Fetchland is indeed interesting, but nothing more. This card is like a poor man's Stifle in a deck that doesn't need Stifle in the first place.
Last point: Why not run Stifle instead? G splash does not seem any better than U splash to me.

Unfortunately it doesn't appear to shore up any of our current weakness's anyway. It sounds like a worse Pithing Needle to me. Hits a very similar slew of targets plus fetch lands, but it is ultimately is usually too weak at what its doing. I normally only see Pithing Needle when going into an unknown meta, or one filled with Sensei's Divining Top. I feel like Bind / Squelch / Stifle will be the same only main-board. It will certainly do something every game, and it might be very cool, out of color and very "techy", but it isn't what we usually want.


Player with Bind "Hah, you didn't Jace-Storm!"
Player with Jace "I'll try again next turn, pass."


I feel like a Goblin Piker variant is just better in the deck as it hits so many of our original goals, including the biggest one. Killing them. The inclusion of non-goblin cards need to be very powerful to see additions. Look at past deck's non-goblin additions and think about it.

Links lead to top 8 deck lists features said card.
Lightning Bolt - Best burn spell in the game, progresses every goal of the deck save being a goblin; See Tarfire for more details.
Swords to Plowshares - Still the best creature removal spell in the game.
Spell Pierce - Counters nearly every spell in legacy. (I didn't see any top 8 winning data on this one, but we've done it on this forum.)
Patriarch's Bidding - Randomly WON games. (I didn't see any top 8 winning data on this one, but we've done it on this forum.)
Umezawa's Jitte - Just wins creature mirrors - and at the time of use also put other Jittes into graveyard.

As a cool note about checking those decks out, the last list had Ruination in their sideboard, Saucy.

Additionally our decks opening hands aren't always the nuts aggro. This can mean that the raw tempo advantage of a Stifle effect may be not used as strongly as it could in some other build / shell. Sometimes we just play mid-range because that is what we draw and the tempo gained isn't as great when the pressure isn't as high.

Anyway that's my two cents.

Jitte doesn't handle an opponents Jitte any more.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Olaf Forkbeard

I feel like a Goblin Piker variant is just better in the deck as it hits so many of our original goals, including the biggest one. Killing them. The inclusion of non-goblin cards need to be very powerful to see additions. Look at past deck's non-goblin additions and think about it.

---

I haven't read the primer in a while, but if a similar statement like this isn't in there, it needs to be. If you're adding a non-goblin card, it doesn't need to just shore up a weakness, but also help you win and close a game, i.e. Thalia, Rest in Peace, Wear/Tear. And depending on the meta, they're usually SB cards that you hope to draw, because MD it can be dilution.

In my opinion Thalia is the only non-goblin card worth maindecking. And thats only because it complements our mana-denial plan, while also is a hatebear useful in combat. And it doesnt dilute our manabase that much, because it can be played with caverns and vial. But the whitesplash is the preferable anyway, since RIP is the best gy-hate and wear/tear is a thing.

Every other non-gob belongs to the sideboard and should have the most impact on heavy played archetypes aka Tier1/2 decks, or is extremly flexible. (thats the reason I still advocate a blue splash for spellpierce) :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Humphrey

In my opinion Thalia is the only non-goblin card worth maindecking.

---

Watch your words, my friend.
http://magiccards.info/scans/en/ds/91.jpg

Apart from that faux-pas I agree with you. I also agree with Bichon_Blitz: non-goblin cards need to make a difference, they need to have a huge impact on the game at virtually any time you draw them. That's the minimun requirement for non-goblin cards. I'd like to add Pyrokinesis , Chalice of the Void and Ethersworn Canonist to the examples that were already given.

Goblins up on SCGLive!

grant babcock playing goblins right now on starcity games streaming against sneak and show (what the fuck !). He's 3-1 at the moment

lost first game after turn 2 show and tell griselbrand.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LeoCop 90

grant babcock playing goblins right now on starcity games streaming against sneak and show (what the fuck !). He's 3-1 at the moment

lost first game after turn 2 show and tell griselbrand.

---

Unfathomable decision to just swallow that Pithing Needle and cast no spells for the turn.

Lost the second game holding a pithing needle in hand for no apparent reason. he landed the first naming griselbrand, then he didn't land the second for sneak and show and the following turn his opponent of course plays sneak and show + hasty emrakul.

Anyway he never had a matron or stingscourger in hand or maybe he would have managed to get back in the game.

It looked like he led with Lackey g1 even though he had Vial in hand and only 1 land. Against an unknown opponent I'd always lead with vial if I only have a 1 lander. He might have suspected his opponent was on combo though.

Jim davis is now 6-1 with gobs! streaming now against MUD !

Victory ! 2-0

Jim tends to do well in these things. Hope he gets first. It will ALWAYS feel good when goblins do well.


Also:

"Looks it's me, I've entered the battlefield." - Cedric Phillips

Made me laugh more than it should have.

yeah, Cedric Phillips commenting Goblins is fantastic.... If i recall right he was one of the first playing with 4 warren instigator 4 chieftains last year.

Jim davis just won in the quarterfinals agains TES piloted by bryant cook. Now he will face elves in the semifinals and then one between reanimator and sneak and show in the finals. It will be very very difficult, but he won against tes so everything can happen :)

So now does everybody bandwagon back to 2 SGC? And utility goblins over Tarfire?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by magicmerl

So now does everybody bandwagon back to 2 SGC? And utility goblins over Tarfire?

---

Also to note, Davis played 4 Piledrivers, 4 Incinerators, and double Hooligan and neither Thalia nor Tarfire MD.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Potdindy

Also to note, Davis played 4 Piledrivers, 4 Incinerators, and double Hooligan and neither Thalia nor Tarfire MD.

---

In addition no Stingscourger.

I may have been onto something. I recently cut my Stingscourger from my main for a second Tin Street Hooligan. After double checking his list so did he. The biggest difference is that I was sideboarding Chalice of the Void instead of Thalia, Guardian of Thraban and I had 3 Gempalm Incinerators, 2 Tarfires, 1 Krenko Mob Boss over 4 Gempalm Incinerators, 2 Siege-Gang Commander.

It was becoming very rare that I actually want Stingscourger as he usually doesn't advance my board presence and causes card disadvantage. I realize the Tempo gained is usually very good but I've been playing the deck more and more mid-rangey, where being up 1 card is more important than temporarily moving the board.