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I am new to this forum as well as to Nic Fit as a deck I have Jund Fit built a none P.fire, and I use Blood Moon to beat lands its not an end all be all but it can slow if not cripple their game for a while. The best you could have done is not brain storm with jace at the end, but use his -1 bounce merit back to the hand...I think that is the best move possible during your match after you -12 on JTMS. I hope this helpsQuote:
Originally Posted by Cliq
Beast within might help. I play one main instead of Vindicate because I like the instant speed and only G not wb. Someone suggested it pages ago and I like the idea.
It might just be that my opponents have all been incompetent with the deck, but back when I ran two DRS main board I never had an issue with lands. I did often get lucky to have the path that stops the turn two lage, but drs helps so much in the mu especially turn one
Not to be mean, your opponents had bad luck or were incompetent. The matchup is bad, whether it is control Lands or RG Lands. It's a fucking hard grind. Fires or the mini-Seismic are bad for us (killing Scooze/DRS). Basically, the only way to get there is Needle Maze if they don't have you dead to rights so you can attack, or hope for a quick Blood Moon and try to plug the board with garbage. I think Control Lands is the only one playing maindeck EE right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vestige
When I beat lands its either because of multiple surgical extractions using eternal witnesses, or a hexproof creature with a SoFaI getting in damage past their Mazes and Fires. Plus occasional path or stp for a marit lage.
But yea, not a matchup I'm gunning for. Thankfully the deck is difficult to get hold of.
Also it looked like Ulysee had a winning line for your game state on the previous page?
Lands is everywhere up here, unfortunately. I think I'm going to jam a Back to Basics in the SB and see what happens, it also really hoses some other decks as well as shutting off Maze and really messing up their ability to get their engine going.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jain_Mor
@Cliq, did you see this post?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulysse95
I can't remember, honestly. I think Jace may have actually been at 11, so I had to choose between ticking him up one more and losing him, or brainstorming. That or I just missed it until the next turn.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jain_Mor
I'm also trying (slowly) to test the enchantment build. My eyes are recovering from surgery or else I would have jammed several leagues already by now with it, I'm only 50 or so tix from being able to test it online. I did invite a friend over and slaughtered him with it - when he played Death&Taxes. When he switched to Shardless I had trouble with mana early on and clunky hands. Bumped up the GSZ count to 4 afterward to see if it would help find Vets early. Some of that was Hymn doing work, I'm sure post sideboard would help with the Leyline of Singularities coming in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jain_Mor
So far I'm impressed. Don't even need Humility main - Starfield + Deed recursion just flat out wins. GSZ for Eidolon of Blossoms and you start drawing a ton of cards. End of turn Rector sac to grab Deed for emergencies...or just get Starfield end of turn, get back a used Deed from earlier, continue on.
The only real thing I want to find out is what can be brought in from the side to defeat Miracles. It is always the bogeyman. Not sure if Assemble the Legion or if something more combo-y like Dovescape + Curse of Death's Hold would be better...or if other avenues should be persued. What I really want is just one single enchantment to bring them to their knees. One enchantment to rule them all.
Also, the build is just a tad clunky, but tuning will help with that. The power level of Starfield is very high, I'm feeling, and helps excuse some clunkiness.
Found this one today..
Thalia, Heretical Cathar
Color: White
Type: Legendary Creature - Human, Soldier
Rarity: Rare
Set: Eldritch Moon
First strike
Creatures and nonbasic lands your opponents control enter the battlefield tapped.
Seems like d&t gets a new friend
You can probably use Retreat to Emeria as an option that's very similar to Assemble the Legion without having to add red.Quote:
Originally Posted by square_two
On the subject of enchantments, how much could Miracles really do to Heliod, God of the Sun? Councils Judgment is their only way to remove him as long as devotion stays down, and you can just dump mana into him forever to make 2/1's. It seems to me like they would pretty much have to Moat you at that point.
Isn't Bitterblossom significantly better?Quote:
Originally Posted by Brael
Very possible, when I suggested Bitterblossom a few weeks ago though it was shot down. I don't remember the exact reason but it will eventually kill you, and it matches up pretty poorly with Deed. On the other hand, it gets over Moat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliq
In the limited testing I have had so far, beating miracles with it seems fine. The key is getting a Starfield out, and then casting as many enchantments as you can. That's where the Stering Groves are useful since you get to enlightened tutor every turn. You find deed so they can't kill you and then eventually you find Faith's fetters to shut down their Jace's and then another Starfield to stop council's or Venser bounce and you've won. Most lists aren't playing RIP anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by square_two
I havent had time to play many post board games, I guess it gets significantly worse afterwards? But we get access to choke and carpets? Maybe they become favoured post board if they have RIP or surgical extractions, not sure? more testing required..
Given that the primer states that Nic Fit can be "hilariously" (and this is pretty funny) a budget deck, I genuinely want people's opinions on SaffronOlive's list from MTGGoldfish.
Land (23)
1x Dryad Arbor
4x Forest
1x Godless Shrine
2x Overgrown Tomb
1x Phyrexian Tower
2x Plains
3x Swamp
1x Temple Garden
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills
Instant (5)
2x Abrupt Decay
3x Swords to Plowshares
Planeswalker (1)
1x Sorin, Grim Nemesis
Creature (14)
1x Deathrite Shaman
1x Eternal Witness
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Scavenging Ooze
4x Siege Rhino
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
1x Thragtusk
4x Veteran Explorer
Sorcery (11)
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Green Sun's Zenith
1x Maelstrom Pulse
2x Painful Truths
Enchantment (3)
3x Pernicious Deed
Artifact (3)
3x Sensei's Divining Top
Sideboard (15)
2x Carpet of Flowers
1x Choke
3x Duress
1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1x Ethersworn Canonist
2x Extirpate
2x Garruk Relentless Flip
1x Krosan Grip
1x Ratchet Bomb
1x Toxic Deluge
Note that while I am new to Legacy, this seems a little sketchy to me. Zero Hymns seems odd. And no this isn't troll. This is an actual list I found, and if people want to try Nic Fit on a budget this may be what they jump to first.
Thoughts?
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No Hymns is correct; Hymn is garbage here unless youre straight GB, which you should never be.Quote:
Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack
Is it actually just fine as a starting list? I would consider using it if it isQuote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
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I don't think it looks too bad. There are several of us who are moving away from Rhinos - you can read the previous dozen pages or so for more of that discussion. Basically, the beasts simply don't line up that well in current meta. Thragtusk still great, and the ratios of removal/card advantage/threats seems ok here. I do like 3 Decay, 3 Swords in my SFM list though. And Tireless Tracker I think has done well enough to deserve a spot in the "stock" lists. It's definitely not a bad list to start off with if that is all you have access to.Quote:
Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack
What SaffronOlive typically refers to as budget is too low budget. I would say that if you want to budget the manabase you need the following:Quote:
Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack
1 Bayou
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Canopy Vista
1 Godless Shrine
4 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh Flats
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Dryad Arbor
7 Mismatched art white bordered basics
That's not cheap but it's also not nearly as expensive as a blue deck.
The list itself is good enough for what it is, not what I would play but I understand why each card is there. However I wouldn't play the Sorin or the Teeg, I would instead put that money towards dual lands first. Teeg is pretty niche and Sorin is a bit too new. If you're playing on a budget it's pretty important to stick to the proven cards rather than the latest fad.
No Hymns is correct, sometimes the deck runs Hymns but it never runs all that many and you can't do it without a proper manabase. Hymn requires a very black based version and lots of DRS. Most lists are green based instead. Don't even think about Hymn without 17 shock damage free sources of black. If you want some discard to supplement Cabal Therapy go with Thoughtseize, Duress can serve as a reasonable budget substitute in the format. I've been experimenting with Tidehollow Sculler too but it's a pretty specific build where that's worth considering as your discard to supplement Therapy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brael
I think if you're a meta of all Delver and other midrange, then quad Rhino is still fine. I think moving down to 2-3 is probably where you want to be nowadays in a more developed, balanced metagame. Card's still good. Just not against Miracles.