I've read your response and I don't know if you've read the post that I responded to asking for thoughts on their list or actually read my post for content instead of skimming. If you did read for content, I think you may have jumped to some conclusions. I'll try to give a little more clarity into what I was implying and give you a little different perspective.Quote:
Originally Posted by iamajellydonut
I hope this helps to clear up any confusion regarding my previous post of offerings to another person's list. If you have further concerns feel free to PM me. I do respond back.
I'd also like to offer you the chance to give some intended to be helpful comments to the person who actually asked for it as you clearly have a bit of time to spare so that we could know your opinion of my suggestions. He's at the bottom of the last page :wink:
1) Library is good and I'm not arguing that. If you happened to noticed, (s)he already has a chains in the board. A single chains. Chains is a fine card when utilized correctly, which can be difficult, but gets better when you have a second. It improves again if you have a way to force its ability on the opponent. I don't use Chains because I don't find a need for it and believe its role in my 75 can be accomplished using other tools. My 75 wasn't the one being looked at though.
2) "Sensei's Divining Top ≠ Sylvan Library." I still haven't said that in this thread. They aren't. I said "ability" and wasn't referencing these two. Perhaps I should better define that out as it's most likely being misinterpreted. -- You'll want both the ability to filter your draws as harass your opponent with Chains.
On the top vs library remark, you can go back a couple pages and take a look at their comparisons made during the discussion of which should be used. People seemed to believe that they were similar but not equal (which I also agree with) and favored the Library (which I do not for some lists). As for which is better, that should still be left as a taboo subject as each option has its time. Chains gives a time when top is typically better and that is why I suggested it.
3) I'll address your comments on Mikokoro in the next section.
I know this will sound offensive but... Do you know what Chains does? Do you know what 2 Chains do (outside of rap)? A third copy is redundant but the overall effect does change when going from 1 to 2 as the ability changes if you're able to discard a card.
If (s)he ever got 2 chains (using the current list this would be just as likely as getting Chains + Library in play) all draw effects turn into "Discard, Discard, Draw", "Discard, Mill, be sad", or "Mill, be sad". The quick easy understanding is that one Chain stops extra draws (they lose one for each they gain) while 2 Chains forces extra draws to be discard and potentially stops extra draws all together. Not redundant. This does change if they have a replacement effect for the draw.
You were correct though in mentioning that chains can be played around. To actually play around it involves not casting draw spells or only casting the ones that are actual draws and not filters then weighing the value of the other cards in your hand. Cards like brainstorm can be considered to be gone already and until they find an answer. They basically play pretending to be short on cards until they find an answer.
As for your other argument, I don't expect chains to win the game or deal damage. I hope no one would unless you stick it turn 2 vs Solidarity (Hightide) or Solitare (enchantress) or have Megrim in play... which I would advise against unless you rebuild from scratch. I would also expect it to do more vs a control deck than a combo deck as you'll have more time to have it stop Brainstorms and Jace activation than hoping that they don't have the tools to go off already.
4) Yes, but (s)he's running 4 wastelands in a 22-land list which I feel is too many for a Knight list (especially with a Loam). As such, it wouldn't be hurting the manabase at all if (s)he replaces a Wasteland with Mikokoro. In fact, it's a pseudo improvement to the manabase as it's a land that isn't planning on killing itself.
Additionally, it synergizes with at least 4 cards from the board and couples nicely with any discard in the main. It's a misconception that your opponent will always be able to cast the cards they get. Sometimes they can't do a thing with the card. Unless you're in dire need of a card, drawing and having access to a card first should be better for you than them.
Other reasons I suggested it
- Liliana's +1 is worse when they're hellbent and you're not.
- Thoughtseize/Hymn aren't as good when the opponent is hellbent and you have nothing to do with it.
- Brainstorm allows them to hide 2 cards from discard.
- (S)he doesn't have to activate Mikokoro.
- Can draw extra cards to get you past dry spots when without Bob/Library.
- Loam can be saved via instant speed draw.
Don't write a card off until you try it and actually give it an objective chance.
5) Loam is good... but not on it's own. You want to hit lands. You want to have things to do with those lands (build manabase, thin deck, waste, or other utility). Additionally milling 3 isn't the biggest threat but without a stronghold, there's no way to guarantee that you won't mill your entire threat pool. However low a percentage, that possibility still exists.
Some exiting thoughts -
- Using Loam + Chains would allow for some really interesting synergies that I hadn't considered. Such as discarding Loam to dredge it for the draw from Chains (dredging that doesn't allow for instant speed removal).
