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Maybe add accel like Chrome Mox, which can also get rid off excess legends?Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn
One could also try to dig out my Noble Hierarch build again (both Neo Thalia and Hierarch are humans for Cavern and Exalted on a 3/2 First Striker sounds sexy).
The 4th Flickerwisp helped alleviate a lot of my concern in the match, and along with Displacer gave me the potential line of blinking their Omniscience out during their upkeep if it became necessary to take that route. My wins have all had some luck factor in with with (having Karakas in my opener, them not having a counter for my CJ on my turn when Omni comes back into play, no Wish for a removal spell to get rid of Containment Priest or Revoker that is shutting off Sneak Attack). I generally just try my best to keep them off of double-red by Revoker on Lotus Petal or forcing them to use mana during their upkeep so there's less surprise from two monsters swinging in on the same turn and overloading a Karakas.Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn
All that goes out the window if they manage to stick a Omniscience, though. Just keep the fingers and toes crossed.
I played Imperial to 6-3 at Worcester, missed d2. This tournament was not a great field for DnT, nobody t32d and I didn't see any DnT near the top tables. I had a friend on Mono-W who was unlucky enough to play Elves both r1 and r2, I played it once. In addition to Elves, Infect and Lands were also everywhere and there was relatively little Delver to prey on.
My main had 3 SfM + 3 equipment, flex spots were Wingmare, Skyfisher, Fiend Hunter, Mangara.
Sb:
3 Path
Relic Warder
Mirran Crusader
Fiendslayer Paladin
Cunning Sparkmage
Faerie Macabre
Containment Priest
2 Rest in Peace
Pia/Kiran
2 Ethersworn
1 extra Magus
Put the extra Magus in expecting Lands/Eldrazi but didn't see either once. Counting the 15 I played at Columbus and the 9 I played at Eternal Extravaganza, I've now gone 33 rounds without seeing Storm. Not that it has totally disappeared (I was staying with 2 Storm players actually) but it kinda shows what Eldrazi has done to the format. Only 2 copies of Storm made d2.
r1 Burn (1-0)
Won g1 off Recruiter for SfM. Fiendslayer in my opening hand g2 seemed promising, but lost to Ensnaring Bridge, Ensnaring Bridge + empty his hand + play lots of lands. Boarded back into 4 Recruiters + Mangara + Relic Warder...if Burn wants to durdle, I know how to durdle...G3 I kept a loose 6 off an Aether Vial and managed to get there off mana denial + Recruitering for a Fiendslayer Paladin.
r2 Zoo (2-0)
Guy playing his friend's deck - second matchup that is bad (any Chain Lightning matchup is bad) but he didn't play optimally since he was new to the deck. Won g1 by racing with flyers and Fiend Hunter blocking + eating Kird Apes. Lost g2 to Goyf + Ghor-Clan Rampager + Bolt Bolt. Won g3 with Jitte + Fiendslayer Paladin. Having 3 Paths was nice. Fiend Hunter not being Banisher Priest was important for keeping Kird Apes at bay.
r3 Miracles (3-0)
Won g1 with an early Magus keeping him off white. Lost g2 to Counterbalance-lock cause I never drew a Cavern or Vial, scooped to Jace so I would have enough time to win g3. Won g3 after he Forced my t1 Vial because Counterbalance lock is really bad when I actually do have a Cavern, which is most of the time...
r4 Sneak and Show (4-0)
Won g1 without a Karakas or Revoker by just having a lot of mana denial. He boarded into Monastery Mentor/Nahiri/Jace and had a t2 Jace, which really didn't matter because Brainstorming every turn isn't particularly scary when you're drawing cards that aren't powerful against DnT. He tapped out for a Sneak Attack then I Sfm'd a Batterskull, Sfm'd a Sofi and killed him.
r5 Stoneblade/Miracles hybrid w/ 4 TNN 4 SFM (4-1)
Won g1 with Flickerwisps keeping him off Batterskull and tempoing him out. Lost g2 to a TNN+Batterskull. G3 I had him at effectively 1 life before he had TNN + Jitte. Whenever you get someone to 1 life in a grindy game you wonder if there was a spot you coulda played differently, but I don't think there was. 4 SFM 4 TNN is very good against us and he played well. At one point g2 I was 90% he had a Terminus on top of his library, so I Flickerwisp targeting Flickerwisp on my main phase, hoping to blank his white source next turn, but he saw the play and STP'd the targeted Flickerwisp and the Terminus next turn was a one-for-one.
He had a lot of SB cards for the matchup and brought in Back to Basics, which I saw g2/3, a little annoying, didn't really matter g2 because TNN+Batterskull is impossible to race, but mattered a little g3 as I couldn't Port him and my Vial was Needled.
r6 Elves (4-2)
A friend played him previously so I knew I was playing Elves. Lose g1 on the draw before I take my third turn. G2 I have a strong hand - Aether Vial, STP, Canonist, Magus. Magus slowed him down a lot and the game went to something like t10, but I drew almost nothing but lands. Eventually drew a Sfm but he had Wirewood + Rec Sage and I drew nothing to interact with it. I think I was actually quite favored from turn 3 on if you looked at the board (Vial/Canonist/Magus) there were probably about 5 draw steps where I needed to draw one of ten cards to start pressing an advantage - sometimes you just draw poorly.
r7 12-Post (4-3)
I'd played this guy before, so again I knew what I was playing. 12-Post is a very favorable matchup but you have to know what their list looks like to play optimally and they always switch things up. That is an real advantage to decks that haven't been or can't be optimized, but it disappears as soon as you actually know what their list looks like.
I have a Vial g1 that gets shut off by a Pithing Needle and I never draw a red card. Eventually SfM in a Sofi instead of porting him, which gives him the chance to play a Titan. I think I still had to do it since I just can't sit there doing 1 damage a turn and I wasn't drawing Wastelands or red cards. G2 my first Magus gets Song of Dryad'd, marking the first time I've seen that card played outside of cube. I Recruited for another and kill him with a bunch of creatures.
G3 I have a strong hand, t2 Relic Warder I have to choose between eating Candelabra and Map - I take the map because I have t3 Magus and can take him off colored mana now - based on what I knew, he needed colored mana to interact with Magus. Candel is dangerous though, so it's not an easy choice. But this time he had Dismember in hand for my Magus, and could Candelabra out an Ugin before I could get another Magus in play. I tutor for a Revoker, since my 2nd Magus in hand will just die to Ugin, and he Crop Rotates/Candles/Eye of Ugins for Emrakul. I almost certainly win that game with a t1 Mom or t1 Vial, also pretty sure I win if I'm on the play since I could get a second Magus out before he had time to have fun, similar to g2. It would have been a different game if I ate his Candel but I think he still could come up with the mana for Ugin with a million Posts.
r8 Pox (5-3)
Two uncompetitive games, g1 was just a bunch of land destruction vs me after I had a clock, g2 he played a t1 Chalice into Trinisphere but never drew black sources and I killed him with Mirran Crusader.
r9 Bug Delver (6-3)
I think I played fine all day, I boarded out a copy of Mom vs 12-Post when I probably should have kept all 4, but other than that I wouldn't have made any decision differently.
I spoke with well known DnT player M Derczo a little bit, he was playing Imperial. He thought 3 SfM was crazy (as did hill_giant when I saw him at GP Columbus) and I think they're probably right. Both of those guys were playing Sword of War and Peace in the board and I get the sense that I should probably give that card more of a chance. Derczo was also playing Gideons and said the card was great. I don't know if we need it as much as Mono-W does, but maybe the card is too good not to play? I just hate SB cards that can't be tutored for, and I don't feel like I need to patch up slow matchups as much as I need to patch up fast ones.
Hey guys, what's your sideboarding plan vs Shardless? (+/- Enevoldsen list)
Do you board out couple Mother of Runes and Revokers and Spirit of the Lab for RiP, Relic, CJ, Path?
On page 308 Enevoldsen posted his SB plan for Shardless.
Thanks for the report, great read as always.Quote:
Originally Posted by iatee
If you would go up to 4 sfm main again, what would you cut? I really want to make room for the 4th, but at the same time I like having Fiend Hunter, Skyfisher and Mangara main. It's also hard cutting something from the SB, I suppose my 2nd Crusader could be the least necessary card. You only played one, was that enough vs. BUG-decks?
I'd like to point out that nonland mana source + Thalia 2.0 + Winter Orb + Port is a very strong lock. Not unbeatable (Wasteland and cheap instant speed removal could still beat it), but might be something interesting against decks where you want to bring in Winter Orb anyway.
Magical Christmasland would look like this (on the play):
T1 Cavern, Noble Hierarch
T2 Port Thalia 2.0
T3 Winter Orb, land, start tapping down their lands with Port
Winter Orb + Port is not actually the greatest combo...
Klirre, I dunno what to cut, it's tough. There's tension between wanting to play the reliable DnT game and having access to a great tutorboard main. Perhaps Mangara or Bskull could be SB.
It looks like I accidentally deleted my 9th round, here's what I meant to write about BUG Delver, relates to your question on Crusader:
"G1 I have the perfect hand on the play with t1 vial into Mom, Thalia, Magus, with Fiend Hunter for his Goyf. G2 I get Hymn'd but had removal for all his creatures, RiP + Magus. Post-board with this build I have 4 STP, 3 Path, 2 RIP, 3 Magus, Crusader, Paladin and the tutors which just makes this particular matchup super lopsided. I board'd out every white x/1 that wasn't Mom. (Protects Magus.) This is the second time I've played Bug Delver w/ 3 Paths in the board and it just feels like the single relevant card they could play is True Name Nemesis. I played it last week and pretty easily won through a t2 Dread of Night because he couldn't stick a threat."
Overall Magus is scarier for BUG decks than Crusader since one of them is a TNN and the other is just game over. Because of that, playing multiple Crusaders has actually more relevant for my non-BUG matchups where the protection doesn't matter and you really want a fast clock (Merfolk, Miracles).
Good report as usual Iatee.
I don't think 3 SFM is that crazy, on the contrary I think it makes perfect sense with 3 Recruiters; there comes a point when SFM become squire, and we hit that point a lot more in Imp Taxes than WW does. Also the deck needs less 1/X creatures, (it's glutted with them already) so SFM #4 is the perfect shave.
Imperial Taxes kills a lot of sacred cows, and I think this is just another one.
I've been playing a Sword of Light and Shadow in the sb with the usual 3 maindeck equipment, and I like it quite a lot. Arguments can of course be made for the War and Peace but I quite like rebuying creatures I've either thrown under the bus on purpose or I've killed with my own equipment to rebuy.
On the topic of another sacred cow to fry up, I'm trying 2 Kor Skyfishers, cutting the 3rd Revoker (which everyone seems to have done). That card has been phenomenal so often that I wanted a 2nd one.
I'm slowly buying into a D&T build. Angel Stompy was my 1st good magic deck back in the day and I look forward to playing the new top white weenie deck of Legacy. With that being said I have some questions for people familiar with the deck.
For the decks that have 4 Karakas and 8 Thalia, how often are you left with dead cards in hand?
Does Flickerwisp seem lackluster without an Aether Vial at 3?
What are the most broken/memorable plays you have had with this deck?
Any unusual deck choices that you swear by?
Thanks ahead of time for answers!
Fickerwisp is never dead. It's a 3 power flyer that can hold equipement and cost effectively 2 if you don't have a target for it. It allows you to port your opponent when you have only 4 mana available.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterBlaster
Most broken play: Surviving 3 show and tell in row (my opponent dropped Emrakul each time) with back to basics on the battlefield and an attack from Emrakul :) (It includes drawing 3 karakas and a flickerwisp)
I haven't played with Heretic yet, so I can't say.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterBlaster
It's certainly less good, but I've definitely hardcast it to disable a Chalice on 1 so I could StP something, or to remove a blocker for a turn so I could swing, or to play a 3 drop flier and still Port with 4 land out by blinking a land. It gets way better with vial though.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterBlaster
Most fun I can remember is surviving an Emrakul swing, then winning by Flickerwisping it out of the way for 3 turns and racing. Also had some hillariously good times playing hour long grindfests against RIP/Energy Field Miracles, and the same against BUG Nic Fit with Pod. None of our plays are actually that broken, we just eek things out. Unless it's UR Delver, and then boy what we do is broken a lot of the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterBlaster
I still like Mangara.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterBlaster
I haven't made the move to additional Thalia's yet, but when I do it'll likely only be 2 after trimming a Displacer and going down to one Mangara.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterBlaster
Previously I only ran 3 Flickerwisp, but recently made the move up to 4 after Eldrazi started becoming more prominent in my area. Resetting Chalice and killing Endless One/Hangarback Walker is always nice, and there are some moments where you can kill off a Mox Diamond or just cast it on turn 3 while still ending up with W free for StP or giving yourself an untapped Karakas against Sneak and Show.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterBlaster
I don't recall ever doing anything 'broken' as it's normally defined. There are just times where the deck fires on all cylinders and does what it's supposed to do in buying you enough time to attach an equipment to a creature, or establish a Mangara-lock on an opponent, and the game ends up feeling very unfair or one-sided. Putting together Displacer + Containment Priest is a wondrous feeling, however.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterBlaster
I'm running almost entirely the 3 Displacer / 2 Mangara build that won the Classic in Atlanta with a Ghost Quarter in the main and 2 Path to Exile in the board. Sometimes they're great, but rarely are they just meaningless.[/QUOTE]Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterBlaster
MasterBlaster, Brad Nelson did a cool video against Goblins a long time ago. I enjoyed hearing him cackle.
http://www.starcitygames.com/article...In-Legacy.html
I could not get the video to load. Hrmph
EDIT: I mention this because the deck was entirely unfair to the Goblins player.
I just posted a few lines over at mtgsalvation, and since the two sites have a somewhat disjunct audience, I thought I'd dish up some copypasta in here:
I piloted a list of Imperial Taxes to a 3-0 finish at our local Sunday Legacy yesterday, beating Elves! (2-1), Elves! (2-1), and Lands (2-1). My list, subtly tweaked to the expected metagame:
4 Imperial Recruiter
4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Flickerwisp
3 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Fiend Hunter
1 Mangara of Corondor
1 Mirran Crusader
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1 Kor Skyfisher
1 Fiendslayer Paladin
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Leonin Relic-Warder
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 AEther Vial
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Flooded Strand
3 Plateau
2 Plains
3 Karakas
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Windswept Heath
Sideboard:
3 Sudden Demise
2 Rest in Peace
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Cataclysm
1 Vryn Wingmare
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Council's Judgment
1 Containment Priest
A few new things became apparent to me while battling through the hordes of green woodfolk, and I thought I might share: It's positively _amazing_ how much a Land->Aether Vial->Rishadan Port start can do for you in this matchup. I know this is pretty much what you wish for against most opponents, but I won three games mostly on the back of this kind of disruptive start against the two elves players, without actually seeing StP (but Equipment later on) in these games at all. Once you have a Vial at three, don't hesitate to flicker lands away as a means of temporary mana denial to hamper their board development during your end step or their upkeep. Don't get too greedy with Sudden Demise; trading 2-for-1 can absolutely be enough to set up a win. Aven Mindcensor does a lot in this matchup (virtually guarantees Jitte counters due to flying, cripples their Natural Order, Green Sun's Zenith and Fetchlands, and catches them by surprise).
Lands was, of course, totally dominated by Magus of the Moon. The fact that Magus off of Vial in response to Punishing Fire shuts off that one copy's recursion is back-breakingly important for both players to keep in mind. As an aside, my favourite moment of the match: Opponent's board consisting of Grove of the Burnwillows, Thespian's Stage and another Land, with a Punishing Fire in the graveyard that's threatening to deal with all my threats. My board: 2 Plains, 1 Cavern. Play Wasteland, sac to destroy his Grove - opponent responds by copying Grove via Stage. Stack resolves. Cast Flickerwisp, targeting the Stage-acting-as-if-it-were-Grove - his eyes widened a fair bit at that point :)
That's a cool list, I like the deep tutorboard main.
Thanks, it's mostly based off one of those awesome lists you posted earlier in this thread :)
I found myself having vast amounts of trouble lately with beating Punishing Fire, Abrupt Decay and Sylvan Library, which is why I opted for Leonin Relic-Warder and Fiendslayer Paladin (also helps against burn, at least if you're on the play) main. Both admittedly didn't do much in the games I played on Sunday, but I think I'll continue with this configuration for now; I'm pretty sure it's the right call for my local meta.
What I'm still unsure about is whether or not I want to replace the third Plateau with a third Cavern of Souls. I haven't seen Counterbalance a lot here lately, and esp. post-board, it really pays off to have non-critter-only red mana sometimes (and I'm thinking I'll never leave the house again without at least three Sudden Demise!). That being said, have you guys ever used the built-in shock that Pia and Kiran's Thopter tokens come with?
Yeah I've been seeing a lot of Elves lately too, dunno why, the deck seems poorly positioned. In any case I might be breaking out the Sudden Demises too. Imperial can win that matchup, I just hate using so much of my sideboard space for it.
2 Caverns is fine if you're not seeing a lot of Miracles. I like going up on fetches more than going up on Plateaus though. Having no basics in your opening hand leaves you weak to Wasteland and you don't need a red source until late most games, sometimes never.
I've mostly used Pia/Kiran's shock to do damage to the face, though I've killed some creatures here and there. Generally if that card resolves you're gonna win one way or another, it's just such a powerhouse and it affects the game on so many dimensions. Flyers, direct damage, legendary, going wide.
Are there such decks? Most folks run 3 Karakas these days, though I can imagine Legends-heavy decks in Reanimator-heavy metas that might choose to run 4. Anyone?Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterBlaster
It really isn't, but I have a coolstorybro. Forgot what the deck was, but they dropped Worb against me. I raised my eyebrows in surprise since I was the mana denial deck, and proceeded to take over the game by untapping Port and laying a land each turn, and using Vial to land creatures and Port to keep them off mana. Then when I ran out of land, I Flickered his Worb to allow me to untap. Using an opponent's sideboard card against them feels really good. Anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by iatee
They're hosting the video on blip.tv, which is no longer a thing: https://variety.com/2015/digital/new...ip-1201575041/Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn
Teach them to not use youtube. :tongue:
I have a big tournament this weekend with no time to test :( does anyone have any experience with the new Thalia? Great or not much better than other disruptive 3s? I really liked displacer the one time I used it and I'd have to cut some for new Thalia.