4 Card Blind

Asthereal's scores for shamelessly stealing the best deck that survived last round's bannings.

1. Asthereal (TO): Mana Vault, Karn, Scion of Urza, Manifold Key, Dust Bowl <-me
2. dte: Swamp, Encroach, tel-jilad stylus, sarcomancy WL
OTD Encroach gets me. OTP I dump my hand and make a 3/3, then have two 4/4s and then a waiting turn before I continue towards 3 5/5s. T1 2/2, T3 second 2/2 isn't fast enough to stabilize.
3. alphastryk: Swamp, Pithing Needle->Swamp, Sphere of Annihilation, Sarcomancy WW
Missed the banned card here. Needle would have done a lot here.
4. Phasmoid: Volcanic Island, Volcanic Island, Curse of the Pierced Heart, Energy Field WW
Curse is slow, Dust Bowl guarantees I don't fold to Energy Field. I'm lucky you didn't go for two basics.
5. Reeplcheep: Lotus Bloom, Lotus Bloom, Barren Glory, Noxious Revival WW
I actually race the combo.
6. RoosterCocoa: Underground Sea, Encroach, Void Snare, Sarcomancy WL
OTD I get Encroached. OTP I get to do my thing.
7. GoblinSmashmaster: Peat Bog, Badlands, Goblin Assault, Attrition WW
I need to spend a full turn to untap Vault, but you need Badlands to use Attrition, so I have just enough time to stop your combo, and i.t.m.t. Karn runs rampant.
8. maxx!: Swamp, Encroach, Sarcomancy, Funeral Charm WL
OTD Encroach, OTP I dump my hand and win.
9. FTW: Hickory Woodlot, Rhonas's Last Stand, Wheel of Sun and Moon, Force of Vigor LL
Force of Vigor is a nice touch. Can't beat that, as you'll use it in response to me untapping Vault.
10. silkster: Tomb of Urami, Molten Slagheap, Gut Shot, Drill Bit WL
OTD Drill Bit + Gut Shot gets me by taking Vault. OTP I dump my hand and win.

Total: 36 points. That's pretty good considering I completely failed to meta at all. I just saw dte's deck from last time and ran with it.

PS. Note for next time: I feel like we should cap the bannings at 3.5 season points. We're banning six decks per round now, which is just too fast, and when the last few rounds come along I fear the banned list will be close to unmanageable.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Asthereal

PS. Note for next time: I feel like we should cap the bannings at 3.5 season points. We're banning six decks per round now, which is just too fast, and when the last few rounds come along I fear the banned list will be close to unmanageable.

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Having my dread fugue deck get banned immediately after going WL vs everything felt kinda silly. Has anyone come forward to GM?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by silkster

I'm really sad that I lose to Barren Glory, cause I thought that deck was unplayable here, losing to so many things. Of course, if a deck is "unplayable", then playing a deck that beats it is no priority, so maybe people move away to what beats those decks, as I did. Well played.
…
It turns out that Encroach was already a 1-mana discard spell that didn't require setup. I'm glad that Rhonas's Last Stand has had its... last stand!

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I made a hard bet that encroach was going to be widely played, since it has such a long pedigree in our other seasons. I didn’t expect decks like roosters, because I thought people who thought encroach was good would play basics.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Asthereal

PS. Note for next time: I feel like we should cap the bannings at 3.5 season points. We're banning six decks per round now, which is just too fast, and when the last few rounds come along I fear the banned list will be close to unmanageable.

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This was actually my original proposal (or decks scoring strictly greater than 3), but I'm actually really happy with the evolution from round to round. While planning my R8 deck, I did a quick check to see whether this season was 12 or 15 rounds because I worried that it would end at 12 before pure silliness abounds. I like the larger banlist for allowing new ideas to surface, but managing the banlist is definitely a tradeoff.

I manage my banlist in the same spreadsheet that I use for brainstorming, and with the cards categorized by function, I'm able to see what's gone and what's left quite easily. Of course, I've forgotten to add many things along the way, like Foil, Lotus Peta,l and Encroach catching me by surprise.

1. Asthereal (TO): Mana Vault, Karn, Scion of Urza, Manifold Key, Dust Bowl
3-3
3

2. dte: Swamp, Encroach, tel-jilad stylus, sarcomancy
Me, sporting encroach and my favourite stylus.

3. alphastryk: Swamp, Pithing Needle->Swamp, Sphere of Annihilation, Sarcomancy
6-0, if needle was legal it would have been the opposite.
9

4. Phasmoid: Volcanic Island, Volcanic Island, Curse of the Pierced Heart, Energy Field
6-0, lucking out on your lands choice.
15

5. Reeplcheep: Lotus Bloom, Lotus Bloom, Barren Glory, Noxious Revival
0-6, that I cannot beat.
15

6. RoosterCocoa: Underground Sea, Encroach, Void Snare, Sarcomancy
6-0, stylus / sarcomancy takes it.
21

7. GoblinSmashmaster: Peat Bog, Badlands, Goblin Assault, Attrition
6-0, encroach.
27

8. maxx!: Swamp, Encroach, Sarcomancy, Funeral Charm
6-0, I play more sarcomancies.
33

9. FTW: Hickory Woodlot, Rhonas's Last Stand, Wheel of Sun and Moon, Force of Vigor
3-3. OTD I trade two zombies for a snake, and dies from my sarcomancy triggers.
36

10. silkster: Tomb of Urami, Molten Slagheap, Gut Shot, Drill Bit
4-1. I remember when you beat with chancellor of the forge / drill bit, but somehow never thought of the csrds for this season. On the other hand, you are banning tomb, which I have hesitated to play at every single round (originally with dark ritual and Davriel). It wad a perfect combination for drill beat.
40.

On the ban at 3.0, I think it promotes a lot of renewal and diversity. Without it we would still be on moxland I think.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reeplcheep

Has anyone come forward to GM?

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What does that mean?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dte

What does that mean?

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I think he means whether anyone has volunteered to organize this, since I am alomst certainly going to stop after this season.
But I used TO (tournament organizer) as short, and I'm guessing Reep also plays D&D or something similar, where GM is the term.

But no, no volunteers yet. But it's not hard to organize.

And we'll need a new thread anyway, as the current first post is running out of character space.
I recommend the one taking over to claim the first five posts or something, so there's room to move old stuff to archive posts.

If there is at least one other, I am willing to organise it on a rotation basis (like I do organise one season, someone else does the next, and then a third or I start again, etc.).

Full / all time TO seems too much to commit to, but half I am ok with :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dte

If there is at least one other, I am willing to organise it on a rotation basis (like I do organise one season, someone else does the next, and then a third or I start again, etc.).

Full / all time TO seems too much to commit to, but half I am ok with :)

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I'm good to organize a season or two. For a moment I was going to say that I'd only do a specific type of season, but then I realized that I'd have the power to choose at that point anyway! Now that I think about it, I'm not sure what the next seasons could be. Pauper, Peasant, and Creatures were three seasons that I was pushing for, and we got those. Creatureless is the season that I didn't know I wanted. I had a few Deviant ideas, but I got to put those out recently. I don't know what comes next. Off the top of my head, maybe 3CB+land rule in one of Pauper/Peasant/Creatures/Creatureless.

I think DM would be the D&D term, while GM (=general manager) sounds to me like a sports term, like the general manager of a hockey team, though I'm sure GM is used elsewhere too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Asthereal

Total: 36 points. That's pretty good considering I completely failed to meta at all. I just saw dte's deck from last time and ran with it.

PS. Note for next time: I feel like we should cap the bannings at 3.5 season points. We're banning six decks per round now, which is just too fast, and when the last few rounds come along I fear the banned list will be close to unmanageable.

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I like the ban at 3.0 too. It's a bit skewed when multiple players score <10 pts or submit banned cards, inflating everyone else's scores. In other rounds it was fine.

I'm surprised you and Reeplcheep scored so highly. Karn and Barren Glory were the best surviving combos. You'd think everyone would plan to be at least WL against them. At any rate, that just means more format refreshing and new combos to explore.

The format is deep. We just barely finished banning Vintage acceleration too broken for Legacy. We haven't even gotten past T1 combo to the creative obscure stuff yet. With slower bans we'd still be on turn 1 LD/discard in Round 11.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dte

On the ban at 3.0, I think it promotes a lot of renewal and diversity. Without it we would still be on moxland I think.

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Perhaps. But the current projection is we'll ban well over 200 cards before the last round. But anyway, we'll see how bad it gets.
And perhaps it's fun enough to compensate for the inconvenience of barely being able to scramble out a deck in the last few rounds.

Anyway, here's standings for round 8:
1. dte: 40 - 4,4
2. FTW: 39 - 4,3
3. RoosterCocoa: 37 - 4,1
4. Asthereal (TO): 36 - 4
4. Reeplcheep: 36 - 4
6. silkster: 30 - 3,3
7. maxx!: 25 - 2,8
8. Phasmoid: 12 - 1,3
9. alphastryk: 8 - 0,9
10. GoblinSmashmaster: 2 - 0,2

Which leads to these bannings.
Barren Glory
Drill Bit
Dust Bowl
Encroach
Force of Vigor
Gut Shot
Hickory Woodlot
Karn, Scion of Urza
Lotus Bloom
Mana Vault
Manifold Key
Molten Slagheap
Noxious Revival
Rhonas's Last Stand
Sarcomancy
Tel-jilad stylus
Tomb of Urami
Underground Sea
Void Snare
Wheel of Sun and Moon

Season standings remain much the same:
1. dte: 30,5
2. silkster: 28,2
3. FTW: 27,1
4. RoosterCocoa: 26,7
5. maxx!: 25,2
6. Asthereal (TO): 23,7
7. Reeplcheep: 21,2
8. GoblinSmashmaster: 20,1
9. alphastryk: 17,4
10. Phasmoid: 17,3
11. Nasst: 6,1

ROUND 9 OF SEASON 12: VINTAGE CREATURELESS BANNATHON has started.

I have PM'ed myself my deck for round 9, so you can start sending me your decks.

DEADLINE: Wednesday the 1st of June at 11:00AM Central European Time.
(That's my time zone. Pacific Time it'll probably be something like Tuesday night a bit past midnight, so keep that in mind.)

PLEASE NOTE:
The way you send your deck to me matters. Please send it in the way described below, so it doesn't cost me an hour of editing before I can post all the decks.
Please send your deck as follows: Mountain, Plains, Forest, Shivan Gorge.
So with card tags around each card, and not above eachother, and with your Username and 4CB S12R09 in the topic.
Don't forget to keep an eye on the banned list. You'll find it in the second post of the thread, or in our Google Spreadsheet.

After the deadline has passed, I will post all decks on the forum here, and you can start puzzling out your scores.
If you have any questions, please read the first two posts of this thread first. If you can't find the answer there, drop a message here. We'll answer a.s.a.p.

Happy deckbuilding! :smile:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FTW

I like the ban at 3.0 too. It's a bit skewed when multiple players score <10 pts or submit banned cards, inflating everyone else's scores. In other rounds it was fine.

I'm surprised you and Reeplcheep scored so highly. Karn and Barren Glory were the best surviving combos. You'd think everyone would plan to be at least WL against them. At any rate, that just means more format refreshing and new combos to explore.

The format is deep. We just barely finished banning Vintage acceleration too broken for Legacy. We haven't even gotten past T1 combo to the creative obscure stuff yet. With slower bans we'd still be on turn 1 LD/discard in Round 11.

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In my mind, Reality Acid combo and Barren Glory were similar in power and resilience but Reality Acid crushes Barren Glory, so I figured that if anyone played either it would be Reality Acid.

The rest I totally agree with. I wouldn't mind changing ≥3.0 to >3.0 cause getting WL down the board doesn't exactly feel like a win. Though it is always above average because of draws.

I'm good with changing the ban rules from >= 3 to >3 (for future seasons), but I do like how the meta game shifts more this season.

And sorry for skewing results with my illegal decks! :laugh:

Edit - if we want to keep illegal decks from skewing the numbers for bans, we could exclude those results and calculate a different average as the ban criteria. That might be more effort than its worth though.

Apologies for the delay, guys. My day went a little differently that I expected. I have everyone's entry, by the looks of it, and I hope to post the decks within an hour.

DECKS FOR ROUND 9 OF SEASON 12: Vintage Creatureless Bannathon

1. Asthereal (TO): Plains, Angel's Grace, Pact of the Titan, Pact of the Titan
2. GoblinSmashmaster: Razortide Bridge, Angel's Grace, Pact of the Titan, Pact of the Titan
3. Reeplcheep: Sinkhole, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Tribute to Horobi, The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4. dte: Jeweled amulet, Badlands, Mind swords, Kuldotha Rebirth
5. Phasmoid: Icatian Store, Icatian Store, Martial Coup, Finale of Glory
6. alphastryk: Peat Bog, Geier Reach Sanitarium, Call the Bloodline, Nexus of Fate
7. RoosterCocoa: Tundra, Beckon Apparition, Piracy Charm, An Offer You Can't Refuse
8. silkster: Badlands, Chrome Mox, Kuldotha Rebirth, Mind Swords
9. FTW: Sand Silos, Misdirection, Energy Field, Inventive Iteration
10. maxx!: Darkmoss Bridge, Dunes of the Dead, Rain of Filth, Dark Deal

Please post your scores and cross-check with the opponents.
I'll create a tab for the round in our Google Spreadsheet, so you can enter your scores there as well: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

Asthereal's results for round 9:

1. Asthereal (TO): Plains, Angel's Grace, Pact of the Titan, Pact of the Titan <-me
2. GoblinSmashmaster: Razortide Bridge, Angel's Grace, Pact of the Titan, Pact of the Titan DD
3. Reeplcheep: Sinkhole, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Tribute to Horobi, The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale LL
4. dte: Jeweled amulet, Badlands, Mind swords, Kuldotha Rebirth LL
5. Phasmoid: Icatian Store, Icatian Store, Martial Coup, Finale of Glory WW
6. alphastryk: Peat Bog, Geier Reach Sanitarium, Call the Bloodline, Nexus of Fate WL
OTP I'm fast enough to make both 4/4 guys and you are too slow to stop them. OTD you make me discard one Pact, and the remaining 4/4 gets chumpblocked by lifelinkers until you're at enough life to be able to ignore my attacks and start making an army of 1/1 lifelinkers.
7. RoosterCocoa: Tundra, Beckon Apparition, Piracy Charm, An Offer You Can't Refuse WW
Grace has split second and is safe from Offer. OTD you go land-go. I also go land-go. At EOT of your turn, I cast a Pact. If you counter, I play a second Pact. Then I untap and Grace and have a 4/4 that you can't stop anymore.
8. silkster: Badlands, Chrome Mox, Kuldotha Rebirth, Mind Swords LL
9. FTW: Sand Silos, Misdirection, Energy Field, Inventive Iteration WL
OTP Silos is too slow to get to 2 mana and cast Energy Field and the giants kill you. OTD Energy Field lands with you at 4 life and from there your 3/3 flyer takes it.
10. maxx!: Darkmoss Bridge, Dunes of the Dead, Rain of Filth, Dark Deal WL
OTP your discard is too slow to stop my Grace plan and the 4/4s kill you. OTD you make me discard Grace so I lose.

Total: 23 points

1. Asthereal (TO): Plains, Angel's Grace, Pact of the Titan, Pact of the Titan
6-0. On the other hand, I think you should WW vs RoosterCocoa and WL vs maxx!
6

2. GoblinSmashmaster: Razortide Bridge, Angel's Grace, Pact of the Titan, Pact of the Titan
6-0
12

3. Reeplcheep: Sinkhole, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Tribute to Horobi, The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
6-0
18

4. dte: Jeweled amulet, Badlands, Mind swords, Kuldotha Rebirth
Me, playing one of the last T1 decks.

5. Phasmoid: Icatian Store, Icatian Store, Martial Coup, Finale of Glory
0-6.
18

6. alphastryk: Peat Bog, Geier Reach Sanitarium, Call the Bloodline, Nexus of Fate
6-0
24

7. RoosterCocoa: Tundra, Beckon Apparition, Piracy Charm, An Offer You Can't Refuse
3-3. I could have stolen a draw with tormod, but chose tax evasion instead. Deservedly punished.
27

8. silkster: Badlands, Chrome Mox, Kuldotha Rebirth, Mind Swords
3-3. Great minds think alike! I thought that decks likely to play soft counters would be slow but likely to beat 3 1/1. In the end tormod's was the better choice.
30

9. FTW: Sand Silos, Misdirection, Energy Field, Inventive Iteration
2-2. Here the exile instead of discard costs.
32

10. maxx!: Darkmoss Bridge, Dunes of the Dead, Rain of Filth, Dark Deal
6-0.
38

Went quite well, I was a little bit scared there would be more decks that can run on two cards like Phasmoid's.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dte

1. Asthereal (TO): Plains, Angel's Grace, Pact of the Titan, Pact of the Titan
I think you should WW vs RoosterCocoa and WL vs maxx!

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Against maxx! you have a point. I wasn't looking properly. He can only make me discard by his turn 2, so OTP I get my guys. Edited.
Against Rooster I don't see how I play around my own plan for him. With me OTD he'll go land-go, and I can't do anything or he can make me discard Grace.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Asthereal

Against maxx! you have a point. I wasn't looking properly. He can only make me discard by his turn 2, so OTP I get my guys. Edited.
Against Rooster I don't see how I play around my own plan for him. With me OTD he'll go land-go, and I can't do anything or he can make me discard Grace.

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VS RoosterCocoa he plays land, you as well. You say go, if he makes you discard, you discard a pact, play the second and win from there. So he does not.
At his turn, he passes. You play pact EoT. If he doesn't counter it, he loses to the 4/4. If he does, you play the second one. WW?
He cannot play both the counter and the discard in the same turn.