We are now the #2 winning-est Deck on MTGGoldfish:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/legacy#paper
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We are now the #2 winning-est Deck on MTGGoldfish:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/legacy#paper
I'm actually close to cutting karakas altogether for a 2nd Volcanic or a mountain since I'll most likely be cutting clique for a 4th snapcaster and a 3rd Terminus for a 4th stp. The wear /tear was supposed to be a disenchant but I didn't find my copy so I just ran wear /tear instead. This slot is to supplement the UA MD against chalice and other lock pieces which is wildly popular where I play.Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Arschmann
Me playing meddling mage over canonist is me expecting it to be better vs burn and eldrazi (which I was expecting to be popular during the event) compared to canonist while also having game vs combo (storm, reanimator, show and tell). I'm still on the fence with these slots because meddling mage performed great for me during the tournament. But elves and storm matchups became significantly worse for the deck, prompting me to think about running canonists.
On the topic of AK, it could warrant some testing but on the offset, I really like the mill part of predict on my library to weed out dead cards as the games go on. It's virtually like visions in shardless bug but we draw better because it's 1 less dead draw. It may be harder to get max value with AK as well because we don't have a way to accelerate the drawing and casting of the AKs in the deck to try and draw more than 1 card i.e. Intuition.
Hey:-)
I've stumbled across this deck (mainly losing against it^^) and I have already played some matches with it.
To start out with the deck, I used ItIsUnfair's list: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/665486#online.
While Im already familiar with the main deck plan and the most important interactions, I found it difficult to sideboard correctly - especially cutting certain cards (maybe like Jace, Predict and Cantrips?). Sometimes I want to shave those, but they are essentially the backbone of the deck...So what are your basic strategies when sideboarding?
Best regards,
TF
The Karakas was mainly there just because we could afford it when we played strictly UW. Once you splash red Karakas and the fifth Island goes out the door. Having one Volcanic and keeping the Karakas is probably a bad choice as you are more susceptible to wasteland and you can't blast twice in a turn.Quote:
Originally Posted by bum_man
Force usually comes out against fair decks in numbers ranging from 1-4 depending on what you board in. CS comes out too, unless you keep a few for a troublesome walker.Quote:
Originally Posted by scry_me_a_river
Jace mainly comes out in matchups where he is either 1) Too slow (Combo, burn etc) OR 2) too hard to protect (decks that go wide)
Not sure I would ever cut predict, but if I am really in a pinch I might shave 1 Portent.
I just played in league with a new list to try out a few things. The deck got off to such a great start with grindy wins against Grixis Control, Bant Deathblade, and Grixis Delver. They were all pretty hard-fought matches, so I was feeling good about the changes heading into round 4. I was hoping for a couple of well deserved cup cake matches against something like BR Reanimator or ANT. Instead, I got caught on the wrong end of rape scene with back to back matches against Burn :mad:
I've never played in a GP before and don't know if a pair of byes is worth much, but I sure hope it helps keep that damn deck as far away from me as possible!
Would it be worth trying a singleton Leyline of Sanctity in the sideboard even if chances are low with just one, if you live to turn four and dig it up it would be a bomb.
I did some playtesting with 3 copies of Leyline in the SB and did win both matches I played against vs Burn. Of course it was also great against ANT. The problem is that Canonist is a much better card overall and has game against other important matchups like Sneak and Elves. Unfortunately, Canonist is worthless against Burn.Quote:
Originally Posted by beez
The problem I see with a singleton Leyline is just as you mentioned, the chances of getting it online are really bad ( << 10% of the time will this happen both games, even with an aggressive mulligan strategy ). That might even be fine though, so long as that slot provided some utility in other more prominent matchups, but it's pretty much a dud outside of Storm.
Any update on a primer for this?
It's not as terrible as it seems. Canonist does often buy you 1-2 turns by itself. Timed with a Rift Bolt makes it a free time-walk. It still trades with Eidolon and Guide, and if it sucks up a bolt that's fine too. (Though it opens you to searing effects, they hopefully boarded them out.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Swampfoot48
Not sure if any of you run Chill, but I personally run Chill + Tutors for Burn, and board in Chill against all sorts of nonsense. Pfire, Sneak-decks, etc. It's really payed off in spades. Means you probably won't be UWr, or that you'll adjust your side, but if the 'r' is just for Moon then they come in vs different decks anwyay.
Isn't Warmth better than Chill? I feel like Burn can just sit and accumulate mana for a few turns and then wipe us out with a Chill in play, but a Warmth or Kor Firewalker really starts punishing their efficiency.
I don't think we have space in the sideboard for either unless your local meta is heavily Burn-centric
That's cool. My Elves friend never cackles as loudly as when he drops a Choke. I'm actually experimenting on a slightly deeper Red splash before deciding to trade my third Volc. Using the above linked version that Maindecks a Blood Moon I'm also adding a Chandra, Torch of Defiance, who's not bad in conjunction with deck manipulation and Blood Moon against wastes. So that's two Maindeck Reds. It will be heavy on creature sweeping and no Mentors but rather also a Maindeck Gideon of the Trials as well, who can attack as a creature that avoids sweepers, unlike tokens. So the win con will lean more on a sweeping the board of creatures often and winning with some Superfriends and a big ETA , hopefully. So with the three Reds I may also consider a Bonfire of the Damned in the board as a 5th Terminus against decks I would side out counters, and possibly a Thunderous Wrath as a fifth STP against Anglersagainst baby 4/5 goyfs before they get to 5/6, and supplement the Pyroblast against non-blue Planeswalkers. It could be that just a Pyroclasm would do instead of any bad Red Miracles. We'll see if I can get all this to work, but in reality it would probably end up being just 4 red cards or so.
Edit: After testing , Chandra is good as is Blood Moon. It is impossible to get two red for Chandra while fetching for Basics for Moon. So if one were tempted to use Chandra it would have to be the card sided out for Blood Moon in those matches.
Played my first matches of new miracle, and miracle in general, at a 33 person tournament today. I ran a rather stock list but with a personal touch. 3 Portent, 4 Swords, 2 UA, 2 Jace, 2Entreat and 1 B2B were my differences from the general lists. I ran no red and 2 mentors in the SB.
I faced Jund, UW landstill, MUD, storm, RUG Delver and Esper Stoneblade. My only wins came from the UW mirror and versus Storm.
I made a lot of mistakes both in playing and probably in boarding, which is to be expected with a new deck.
Versus Jund I won game 1 with a turn 5 EtA (doubble chance of EtA felt great btw). G2 and G3 Jund hymned me into oblivion, first time taking 2 lands, second time a mentor and a B2B. I boarded out 4 FoW, 1 EtA and in with 2 BEB and mentors and a second B2B. BEB was probably a mistake since the pay-off cards all are green and black.
Versus Landstill i boarded out 4 terminus, 1 EtA and in with 2 disenchant (he ran Myth Realized), 1 B2B and 2 mMentors. Games felt great. Eventhough i cracked several standstills i kept up in CA and my card quality was way higher, not running a bunch of bad lands.
MUD with red for Magus and punishing fire. Won game 1 off EtA on turn 5 (again!) after plowing, snap plowing all his threats. Game two i got locked out with chalice and couldn't come back. Game 3 I got locked out with Magus unable to find a plains with a hand full of white cards. I boarded out 1 counterspell, 1 fow, 1 portent, 1 predict for 2 disenchant, 2 mentors. Not sure when (if ever) to start cutting cantrips and predicts but versus chalice it felt right.
Storm. Mulled game 1 for FoW. He duressed me and won. Game 2 and 3 i rode Canonist to Victory with counterspell backup for removals, as I've been told to do. He had no chance. G3 I ended with 1 flusterstorm, 3 FOW, 1 counterspell and 1 snapcaster in hand. He didn't play decay which played right into the game plan.
Next game versus RUG delver. Maindeck Winter orb and Mongoose was a beating. Post board they were joined by a second Orb and the Nemesises. I boarded wrong I think. Took out 4 fow for 2 disenchant and 2 BEB. Not having access to fow made me loose the counterwars on terminus, and BEB was pretty bad this match-up.
Versus Esper stoneblade i won game I due to scoop after unchecked jace and a bunch of predicts. This guy used to play miracle which I think is why he scooped: he knew the game was lost and wanted time to win the rest. I took out B2B, 1 EtA and in with 2 disenchants. Game 2 and 3 were grindy and I just ended up on the losing side. I think I played a bit to agreesive here. G3 we basicly went draw go until I had 6 lands. I tried toplay jace with counterspell + fow backup and won the counterwar. He cliques me and killed my jace while I was tapped out, after that the game went downhill. Lesson learned: always fateseal first.
I'm happy for feedback on both list and boarding. My gut feeling is 3 jace is correct but that 2 EtA is probably ok preboard. Since we have no soft lock we need to finish the game quicker than old miracle needed to. Next time i think I'm gonna try MD mentors and see how it goes.
On a separate note, every time I see Portent Miracles players cast blind Predict targeting on himself, not his opponent, I shake my head. You're predicting blind, why would you want to be at risk of mil your own win condition (mentor/eta) into graveyard.
The more I give some thoughts, the more I like hydroblast. Keep in mind, if you run Mentor, hydroblast is strictly better than blue elemental blast.
vs Show and tell: Sneak Attack
vs Storm: Past in Flame, Burning Wish depending on the version
vs BR Reanimator: faithless looting
vs Lands: gamble, Pfire, boil, molten vortex
vs Burn: everything
Versatile enough to warrant a SB slot.
People should almost always be blind predicting themselves. Milling a win condition is not nearly as threatening as you think it is. It is far more important to predict yourself IF there is a known 4-of in your deck that would increase the odds of your predict hitting. If there isn't, or your opponent is on a mono coloured deck like Merfolk or DnT, only THEN can a case be made to Predict them, but why in the world would you ever lower your chances of hitting on a blind Predict? Milling over a win condition should almost never be an issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by twndomn
You also help Snapcaster Mage by targeting yourself, which has come up a lot, definitely wrong to target the opponent unless they're mono coloured exactly as Minniehajj says.
Hear that Merfolk, High Tide, DnT and Griselbrand Storm combo players?
Start playing some Snow-Covered Basics!
I Predicted a Moon Stompy player this week, naming Mountain (hadn't seen any basics yet), flipped Snow Covered! It's a real thing!Quote:
Originally Posted by gh0st_b1rd
have any of you hit a blind predict before? i personally have never succeeded.Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitefaces
Pretty sure I hit a blind predict at least twice in each event I play in, and at least once in each League. I'm very lucky and always have it :>Quote:
Originally Posted by KZhang
The last time I got to play CounterTop Miracles, I blind predicted my Mono-Black Pox/Discard/something opponent twice, naming Swamp. I milled a Liliana of the Veil both times. :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by KZhanghave any of you hit a blind predict before? i personally have never succeeded.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minniehajj
Yep, plenty of times. I had a great one the other day where I was dying to a quick True-Name Nemesis, and had Snapcaster and Terminus in hand. Figured my best way to win was find a Brainstorm. Blind hit the storm, snap it back to set up the Terminus and win from there. Luck, skill, victory :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by KZhang
Only relevant vs Merfolk, High Tide and like Goblins. But yes, I already have 10 foil Snow-Covered and a binder full of reggae Islands. Jokes on you, buster.Quote:
Originally Posted by gh0st_b1rd
ps: I wish all who are going to the GP good luck and a safe trip. Even if you don't make it, have lots of fun in Vegas! Never thought I would be rooting for Miracles, but then again it was CB-Top that I hated. The *best* players at our table-top always played some form of UW control at our kitchen table games when I was a little kid, flinging Wrath of Gods, Force of Wills, and Serra Angels. Good times. I can get behind any deck that chains spells together to beat me, as long as I get to resolve some of mine in the process. Watching an engine that has been Legacy legal for YEARS finally come to light (Ponder+BS+Predict) is also incredible to me. How many more engines are out there that we deem not good enough, but are just waiting? Obviously it's the miracle cards that add the power level to the deck, and let all those Predicts you cast draw you into a win, but it's amazing to see the innovation with cards that have been out for years. Bravo +10 /clap.
What do you guys feel about Blessed Alliance? It kills goose, nemesis and marit lage and is also relevant against burn and decks with a lot of reach in general.
Are you already running 4 swords? Blessed Alliance is very mana-intensive and the 4 life seems underwhelming vs. Burn.
Terminus and Verdict kills goose (???) and nemesis. Also, your Counterspell and FoW should nab that shady merfolk! Marit Lage dies to 4x StP, 2x Terminus, 1x UA and you play 4x Snapcasters... I don't see Blessed Alliance in the deck. The four life gives you half a turn tops against burn which you trade away again by spending all that mana which could be otherwise spent to actually win the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by JackaBo
May your luck run true during the GP!Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitefaces
as my playgroup would always say, "Better Lucky than Good"
Fair points. I had some serious issues with RUG delver but that had more to do with Winter orb than the actual threats.Quote:
Originally Posted by kentheide
Just went 4-0 at our weekly Legacy tournament with this list, don't have much to add tough :D Liked the list and I am likely to play the same 75 again next time (note: 61 card main).
2-1 White Eldrazi
2-1 UR Painter
2-1 Sneak & Show
2-0 White Eldrazi
Land (20)
1x Arid Mesa
4x Flooded Strand
4x Island
2x Plains
4x Scalding Tarn
3x Tundra
2x Volcanic Island
Planeswalker (3)
3x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Creature (4)
4x Snapcaster Mage
Instant (21)
4x Brainstorm
3x Counterspell
4x Force of Will
4x Predict
4x Swords to Plowshares
2x Unexpectedly Absent
Sorcery (13)
1x Entreat the Angels
4x Ponder
4x Portent
4x Terminus
Sideboard (15)
1x Blue Elemental Blast
1x Containment Priest
2x Disenchant
2x Ethersworn Canonist
2x Flusterstorm
1x Izzet Staticaster
2x Red Elemental Blast
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Vendilion Clique
No Blood Moons? Interesting. What kinds of decks are in your local meta if you don't mind me asking?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rook1e
Hi! New to legacy, even newer to the deck.
My main board configuration is very close to this, but I was running Mentors main with StP in the side. My side board is somewhat different. A couple of questions:
What do you think of Mentor? Do you miss having another threat, or is EtA enough?
What do you think of Blood Moon? Been seeing that as a 1 or 2 of popping up in decks, currently have it in my SB.
Do you have any side boarding advice? That's probably what's giving me the most trouble so far. Generalisms are fine. My side board has many of the same elements as yours, mostly with different numbers. Notably I do not run disenchant or containment priest currently.
Another card that is giving me problems is Clique, I'm just not sure when to use it. I'm guessing it is for combo match ups, but not really sure.
Thanks for any tips. (From anyone, not just the one I'm quoting.)
Hi there,Quote:
Originally Posted by bridgebum
Well, I am not sure I am the right person to hand out advise left and right. Just came back after a short break from Legacy and have played 1.5 tourneys with the deck. But here are my thoughts on the questions you posted:
Mentor: I love the card. One of my favorite critters. However, I don't feel we need him here. He doesn't shore up weak MU's and turns on their removal. However, if you are a slower player you might wanna add Mentor for quicker wins. I have had around 1/3 of my games end with me having less than 10 cards in my library.
Blood Moon: Sorta the same as above. I feel like people go to Blood Moon for 'easy wins', but again, I don't feel like it solves our problems, just feels win-more imo.
SB: This is a lot tougher to answer with only 1.5 tourney under my belt. So instead of giving broad advise that might or might not help I can try to answer a few specific questions? It comes down to meta, experience and personal style mostly though.
See my reply above for (brief) thoughts on Blood Moon. Our meta is quite diverse actually. Yesterday, other than the decks I faced, I saw D&T, UB Reanimator, Esper Stoneblade, Cephalid Breakfast, Lands, Delver (UR, Grixis, Jeskai and BUG) and Food Chain. Basically all the decks :PQuote:
Originally Posted by crowe_1
Best of luck to everyone playing in the GP tomorrow!
Clique is for everything. I have clique on my opponent's turn to create a Miracles trigger, pressure opponent's planeswalker... etc. You cannot block a flipped delver with sanpcaster can you. The problem with this deck in general is the WW requirement for UA and later Entreat. To get there while not losing to Wasteland and Stifle can be scary. Red like Blood Moon certainly does not help with the Mana base. Therefore UW is preferred. I cannot imagine not having at least 1 disenchant in your 75.Quote:
Originally Posted by bridgebum
Here's a potentially dumb idea: what if we replaced UA with Detention Sphere? Detention Sphere only requires one white, is very good against Chalice, saves cards vs. Reality Smasher, stops Show -> Emrakul (not that this was a great line vs. us anyway) and increases our outs to a resolved Empty the Warrens. It is bad vs. Abrupt Decay but Abrupt Decay decks like BUG Delver often heavily punish us for attempting to get WW anyway. Sorcery speed is a limitation, but the deck used to play Council's Judgment at the same speed.Quote:
Originally Posted by twndomn
I used to run D Sphere over C Judgment in Enlightened Miracles pre-ban due to it being tutorable. The card could "gotcha" sometimes versus Show and Tell with Enlightened Tutor in response, then draw off Top, or Tutor as a three-cost for CB. You also get natural Two-for-ones sometimes, which is particularly sweet versus Chalice. It answers Planeswalkers too, which is nice considering how difficult they were to deal with otherwise.
It has some significant negatives though and your opponent can use it against you. If you have to hit a creature with it, the "return" trigger can bite you if the opponent removes D Sphere after you cast your sweeper later on. Abrupt Decay, Disenchant, REB/Pyro, and now Unexpectedly Absent are all pretty common and can get rid of Sphere at inopportune times. It's not bad, but might be as much or more of a liability than the double-white on Absent.
What you really want is an instant-speed way to bounce/blink Detention Sphere before the first trigger resolves.../jank
I know Commit//Memory was previously passed over as not good enough. It's been doing well for me. Extra Counter or bounce. Feeds predicts. And Timetwister has won me game(s)
I replaced a single cantrip and slots in fine.
Hello. I've been playing this deck basically since it blew up, and having tons of success with it. I'm currently 15-1-2 (1 ID, 1 unintentional draw, 1 loss to Aluren) with the deck locally and last Sunday I won a 20-30 man tournament where first prize was a Tundra. My list is very close to what a lot of others are running but here it is anyways:
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
3 Tundra
5 Island
2 Plains
1 Karakas
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
1 Spell Snare
4 Ponder
3 Portent
4 Predict
2 Unexpectedly Absent
3 Counterspell
1 Entreat the Angels
1 Supreme Verdict
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Force of Will
3 Terminus
SB
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Flusterstorm
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Disenchant
2 Containment Priest
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Back to Basics
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Batterskull
It could just be my local meta but this deck has been carrying me to a lot more wins than any other various UW or UWR decks I've been testing post top-ban. Terminus is still a fucked up Magic card and it feels like I have really good game against every deck except Burn, Aluren, and probably 12-post or MUD if they still exist. I've loved the Spell Snare and have even considered going up to 2, it always seems to nab something and no one expects it. Stoneforge Batterskull could easily go from the sideboard if you wanna just concede the Burn matchup, which honestly might be correct anyways since I'm still not sure that it's enough. The only other time I used it was against Merfolk and while that worked out I'm not sure that makes it worth 3 SB slots. List feels good for sure but I've been changing it up a lot too, still not 100% confident in some of my choices and I'm gonna test a few other things out next Thursday when I play it again.
"Miracles will be a fringe deck at best" -William Jensen
I hope he's wrong...