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SB: 3 ThoughtseizeQuote:
Originally Posted by Wintersmith
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Choke
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Oblivion Ring
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 1 Zealous Persecution
SB: 1 Thrun, the Last Troll
The deck is characterized by low resistance creature, any Maverick makes a lot of damage the fire punishing honestly can not fight this card unless it exiliemos, decks that are more JUND exploit and LANDS ... pairings battleground.
Is this just an advertisement for courser? IMO, KotR and Scooze are both fine against PFire (fetch/grow in response), as is Mom and DRS (soft counters). It also would feel stupid to go through the trouble of fetching courser at 4 mana when the opponent is roughly at the point they can double-Pfire or just Decay/Lily it away. Having been on both ends of KotR vs Bog and and GWB vs. Pfire I can say that KotR is obnoxious to actually keep small. If untapped he often grows to a 5/5 or 6/6. Decks running RiP (basically just D&T, Stoneblade, and meta decks) don't run PFire, for obvious reasons; and if you're worried about Thalia, you have your own, and Mom, and board wipes in the side.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wintersmith
The only others I can think of you'd be talking about are Sigarda, BSK, Thrun, or Goyf; which all have people who like/dislike them. In his case he's gone for the Depths package as a late-game gotcha instead of the above.
Worried about Jund? I believe Sigarda is rather hard for them to handle. :wink:
(PS. I actually play Sigarda over the Stage/Depths combo because it improves more troublesome matchups.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asthereal
We have a winner.
I have fat fingers and I am posting from my iPhone.
Thanks for thorough answer, tescrin. Just gave another pov to consider. I didn't think through all those color combinations, so thankfully I don't need to worry about all of them. That soft-lock lands got me into really rattled me. So I put an answer to my md for that kind of situation and I'm testing how it fits into my meta and playstyle. I might be worrying about something totally irrelevant here. :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by tescrin
lol no problem. I normally just assume my answers are obnoxious (and maybe that's the general case.) But hey.. I like reading myself type I guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wintersmith
Lands has hands you just can't get out of sometimes. My POV is that if Sigarda is other people's answers.. well, you have 6 mana against Lands.. so you probably already won. Even then, they can still just Lage you out potentially.
If you're worried about it, you can always Absolute Law in the Sideboard.
If you want to go deep you can find things that are a little less situational like:
Blurred Mongoose
Troll Ascetic
Steely Resolve (on humans)
Scythe Tiger
or other similarly weird cards.
I could see Blurred Mongoose being an OK out to Miracles actually. Basically a terrible TNN but you can cast it through CB lock. Given that Nimble Mongoose works in RUG against them, maybe it's good enough.
Grand Prix Seatac Tournament Report
I brought Abzan Maverick to the tournament with high hopes; here is the list I brought.
Creatures: 26
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Mother of Runes
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Dryad Arbor
Spells: 12
4 Green Sun’s Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Maze of Ith
1 Dark Depths
Lands: 22
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
4 Marsh Flats
2 Savannah
1 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Plains
1 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Pendelhaven
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Thespian Stage
Sideboard: 15
3 Thoughtseize
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Toxic Deluge
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Tower of the Magistrate
I had gotten two byes from a GPT at Channel Fireball and so I had the luxury of using the bathroom before 2013 other people could.
The Friday before day one, I joined a legacy side event. Five rounds of swiss where I ended the night at 4-1. This gave me a lot of confidence going into Saturday as all my sideboard cards mattered and I won several games off the back of Dark Depths.
Round One: Bye
Round Two: Bye
Round Three: Death and Taxes
Game One
-An early Deathrite Shaman is plowed, which I follow up with a Mother of Runes. He resolves a Deathrite Shaman on turn 2 fetching an Umezawa’s Jitte which I answer with a Qasali Pridemage. He plays his third land and passes the turn as I play my own Stoneforge Mystic to fetch my own Jitte. On his fourth turn he casts a second stoneforge mystic to fetch a batterskull. I leave mana up on my turn saying go. At end of turn he puts an Umezawa’s Jitte into play and untaps. He attempts to equip the jitte before I destroy it with my Pridemage, not wanting him to get a free plow on my mother of runes should I use her to prevent the damage. He passes the turn, and I activate stone forge to put the Jitte into play. I proceed to equip my Stoneforge Mystic with the Jitte and attack. He puts the batterskull into play and blocks—I save my mystic with my mother of runes putting 2 Jitte counters on my equipment. He attempts to plow my mother of runes at the end of my turn and a scryb ranger saves her. The game quickly gets out of hand as Scryb Ranger + Mother of Runes was followed by a Knight of the reliquary. The game stalls for a short while as I misplay my use of Jitte—but in his favor as my board position was too far ahead. The game was already over the moment he was unable to kill my mom with Plow.
Game Two
-A lot less interesting than the first game, he simply resolves a turn one mother of runes and follows it up with a Stoneforge Mystic. I had an okay opening of Deathrite into a 4/4 Knight of the Reliquary with a Thespian Stage in hand, with plans to kill him on the 5th turn with a Marit Lage Token. Phyrexian Revoker turns off that line of play and I quickly succumb to the power of Jitte.
Game Three
-Kept a hand with two colorless lands and failed to draw color until too late. Thespian Stage copying an opposing plains finally allowed me to cast spells around turn six. Having Qasali Pridemage countered by Vial+Revoker was the highlight of the match; but was uneventful regardless due to me failing to mulligan a bad hand.
Round Four: Burn
Game One
-He killed all my creatures, but I top decked more creatures while he did not top deck more burn. This was more a deck density game as we were both eventually hellbent, but I top deck a Knight of the Reliquary that was too massive at this point. He starts throwing burn at my face but 5 damage a turn from the Knight was too much for him to race.
Game Two
-The early game was rough as early Goblin Guides were supported by Searing Bloods which did lots of work. A few chump blocks followed by trading Goblins with Pridemages stabilized the ground game. I then untapped and made a 4/4 Scavenging Ooze gaining me some life in the process. He hits my Ooze with a Fireblast but is out of lands and cards in hand. I play a Deathrite Shaman and I am pulled out of burn range before he finally starts drawing burn spells again. At this point I have too big a board and I take him down in a few turns.
Round Five: BUG Delver
Game One
-This was a deathrite shaman game. Other creatures were involved, but the long match was decided by the fact that I had two deathrite shamans to his none. Thalia + plus Karakas stalled his Tarmagoyf while his removal was focused on my mother of runes and knight of the reliquaries. My two Deathrite Shamans keeps Tarmagoyf small and the life gain from deathrites kept Insectile Aberrations at bay. The game goes long as Planeswalkers, abrupt decays, and Maze of Iths stalls out the game on both sides. My two shamans slowly shrink his life total and his delver shrinks down my own. After 30 minutes of slogging he runs of answers to my big threats and a scryb ranger fully locks him out of the game as maze + scryb stops his delvers and 3 deathrite activations per turn keep his two goyfs at only 1/2.
Game Two
-This was a complete blowout. First turn I plow his deathrite. He then misses his second land drop, but is able to play another deathrite. On my second turn I wasteland his underground, then plow his deathrite. He top decks a land and casts a Delver of Secrets. I then play a Deathrite Shaman and a Mother of Runes. He plays a brainstorm but is then locked as he misses another land drop. I wasteland his land again while resolving a Stoneforge Mystic. He hits me for 3 before I abrupt decay his delver. Two turns pass with no land draws before he scoops.
Round Six: ANTS
Game One
-An early deathrite shaman followed by wasteland and Thalia sets him back enough to force an early Tendrils play—leaving me at 2 life. Four or five turns pass before I deal lethal.
Game Two
-My second turn was spent casting a Deathrite Shaman and a mother of Runes while his second turn was spent producing 18 goblins. A big mistake happened when I prevented my Mother of Runes from trading with a token (protecting herself from damage instead) which prevented me from gaining the 2 life I needed to survive an extra turn. I had cast a Stoneforge Mystic for a Batterskull that threatened to turn the game around should I be able to untap with the Stoneforge—but without the extra life I died to exact damage a turn before batterskull came online.
Game Three
-Turn one play dryad arbor (without Green Sun) followed by a 2nd turn Phyrexian Revoker on Lions Eye Diamond prevented him from a turn 3 kill. That was then followed by a Deathrite Shaman and me deciding not to put a plains onto the battlefield. Thoughtseize removing his chain of vapor followed by a Thalia Guardian of Thraben which locked the game out as I didn’t have the plains for his massacre. He was forced to cast a desperation Ad Nauseum which killed him.
Round Seven: Merfolk
Game One
-Scryb Ranger is one the best cards Maverick has against Menfolk—especially game one. Mother of runes was able to both block and push a knight of the reliquary through for damage simply with my Scryb constantly untapping her. At one point, Maze of Ith, Mother of Runes, and Scryb Ranger stalled out the ground as a pro-blue Knight finished him off.
Game Two
-What starts off fairly even quickly devolves into a Truename Nemesis race that I am unable to answer. An early mother of runes does not get the support creatures she needs as my Swords to Plowshares mainly killed lords as I died to Truenames.
Game Three
-This does not go well for Maverick as he was able to draw everything he wanted against me. An early truename Nemesis is followed by a phantasmal image and a second true name nemesis. My initial plan was casting a Knight of the Reliquary and then playing the Thespian Stage in my hand to allow me to kill him on the fifth turn. However, a Pithing Needle on Knight of the Reliquary and a Chalice of the Void set on 1 almost locks me out of the game. At this point I had resolved a mother of runes, and a stoneforge mystic searching for a Sword of Fire and Ice. Mom wearing a Sofi keeps his board clear of lords, but I am still taking heavy damage from the three Truenames on the board. Near the last turns of the game, my only valid line of play was casting a Knight of the Reliquary, and then targeting it with a Swords to Plowshares to gain life in order to fog for a turn. This, however, requires a missed trigger from Chalice of the Void to work. With some fast play I cast the knight, said go, and when he attacked with his three Truenames I immediately cast Swords to Plowshares on my Knight without hesitation. Pausing for a moment, he looks at the Knight, asks me how much life I gain (I tell him how big my Knight is), and then he proceeds to tell me that it is exiled not killed. I go down to 2 after the attack and proceed to top deck a Toxic Deluge off of my Sofi trigger. He is hellbent at this point and I cast Deluge for 1 leaving me with only 1 hitpoint left and a mom + Sofi in play. he dies to the mom beats before he can cast a threat.
Round Eight: Miracles
Game One
-A mull to five did not start me well. And although the hand was good, by the fourth turn my initial assault was fully blunted and I was in top deck mode. My initial threats were substantial as I curved out with a first turn Deathrite Shaman, a second turn Thalia, and a combo of Wasteland + Gaddock Teeg on the third turn. The issue that came about was my inability to capitalize on the initial disruption as he was able to find removal for all three spells and I was already in top deck mode. An early Monastery Mentor kills me before I can get a game going.
Game Two
-This one starts out much better for me, but ends up far worse. Although I eventually flooded out—the opening salvo has usually been enough to end most of my matches against Miracles. But Plow, Plow, Snap+Plow, into Izzet Staticaster just neutered any early pressure I could do. The game ended with him still holding spot removal and me locked out of the game with Countertop.
Round Nine: Burn
Game One
-I was on tilt at this point and began overthinking absolutely everything I did. Going first, the burn player opened with a Wooded Foothills and passed the turn. Holding two marsh flats and two wastelands, two mother of runes and a Qasali Pridemage. I decided that the untapped Foothills was a Stifle bluff and played my wasteland with the hope that he stalls his Tarmagoyf until turn 3 to keep his stifle mana up. Instead he untaps, plays a bloodstain mire, fetches two mountains and plays an eidolon of great revels. I untap, and cast a mother of runes—wasteland sitting useless. I take 2 damage from the eidolon. He untaps, hits Mother of Runes with Chain Lighting, and casts a another Eidolon of Great Revels before attacking for 2. The second fetch land is cracked and I cast Qasali Pridemage taking 4 damage from Eidolon triggers. At this point I’m at 12 from eidolon’s and fetches alone. He swings with both, I block one eidolon and destroy the other. He throws a chain lightning at me brining me down to 9. I draw a Stoneforge Mystic and cast it—taking 2 going down to 7 and I search for a Batterskull. I am finished off with a bolt and a fireblast.
Game Two
-I open with a Mother of runes, which is hit with chain lightning, followed by a Deathrite Shaman, which is hit by searing blood taking me down to 15 since I had fetched twice. On my third turn I resolve a Knight of the Reliquary. He answers back by hitting me with Chain Lightning and casting an Eidolon of Great Revels; I am now at 12. On my turn I play my fourth land and resolve a green sun’s zenith for 3 putting a second Knight of the Reliquary into play. I pass the turn, choosing not to attack. He passes the turn with no plays and I fetch for a Maze of Ith. On my turn I attack with both my Knight’s, he attempts to block one with eidolon and I target my Knight of the reliquary with Maze of Ith, untapping it and preserving his eidolon. He takes 5 and I play a Dryad Arbor. On his turn he attempts to hit Dryad Arbor with a second Searing Blood and I sacrifice the Arbor with my Knight in response—accidentally writing down the 3 damage in the process. My sheet now marks me at 9 while his sheet marks me at 12. He asks to see my life pad, and I show him. He attacks with his Eidolon taking me down to 10 actual (but 7 on my life pad), he then follows up with Chain Lightning and Fireblast bringing me down to 3 actual (but 0 on my life pad). My opponent proceeds to pick up his cards and shuffle as I sat there confused as to what just happened as I thought I had a bigger health buffer than that. I called judge and since I both wrote down the new life totals and he had already shuffled his cards it was too late to reverse the game state. Although upset at the situation, I was mostly upset with myself for the clerical error.
Closing Thoughts
Although I ended day one at 6-3, the tournament itself was fantastic, and I was on the ropes in most of my games. Going into the 8th of nine rounds at 6-1 definitely felt good while losing the ninth round hurt a lot more than i thought it would. I was taxed by the end of the day but felt like I could play 9 more rounds of magic no problem—probably the adrenaline/excitement/delirium.
My biggest regret is losing my first game against death and taxes. It wasn’t until I lost the 9th round the way I did that I realized how close the margins actually are in a grand prix and throwing away a favorable match like that definitely affected me. Although I am angry with myself for multiple bad plays and clerical errors—those are things I can always expect to happen in any 12 hour event. At some point you will be tired and make a mistake. Play tighter, make less of them, but don’t assume you won’t make them. More than a few of my game wins came from the opponents making unforced errors and having my opponent’s decks lose due to variance—so its only fair to expect that it will happen to me as well. I cannot be upset for losing a match for the same reasons my opponents do. My results against Merfolk in round 7 followed by my results against Miracles in round 8 is a testament to how fickle the luck gods are. Luck will affect both you and the opponent, and mistakes will happen given enough time (and 12 hours is a LONG time)—so, in regards to game 3 against Death Taxes, making decisions like I did where I hoped to just get lucky and draw colored sources in game three (as opposed to game 2 after winning game one) was an unacceptable decision I don’t plan on repeating.
Changes to the Deck
I was very unhappy with both Thoughtseize and Dark Depths. Not from their inability to perform—but from the awkward side boarding decisions they forced me in. Pithing Needles were everywhere to fight Miracles, but my Knight of the Reliquary got caught in the crossfire shutting down my combo kill plans on more than one occasion. This leads me to believe that until Miracles stops being so popular I cannot afford to run a trump card that gets turned off when my Knights are turned off. Thoughtseize was an upsetting change primarily because I did face off against two burn decks—so possible confirmation bias. But even against ANTS I felt scared that shrinking down their storm count needs would be detrimental. Unfortunately, with the recent trend in Miracles, Thoughtseize might have to stay just to fight Monastery Mentors and Izzet Staticaster. With mentor mirrors and the success of Grixis with their Pyromancer, there’s going to be an uptick in Staticaster usage which will greatly affect my lines of play. Thoughtseize is great against this change in Miracles.
I think that's a great run; though I really hate the requisite "play to your outs" of the chalice->plow problem. It makes sense, I guess I feel like (as an engineer) winning like that isn't much different than cheating since the deck and player technically failed to win without exacerbating circumstances mitigating it.
Good on you for going for it, but then "getting there" wouldn't mean much for the deck when it only gets there on the back of bad players missing triggers you know? The idea that the lack of competence of an opponent to notice something you're both technically supposed to keep track of may have been the difference between a Top 8 and not is upsetting IMO. The only reason it's an abusable trick is because there is a lack of punishment for the abuse of it anymore. I'd really rather they go back to giving both players warning for this kind of thing, and intentionally playing around the rules be labeled as it should be.
I guess I have a different idea on what player skill entails.
In physical sports, the expectation is not that you execute all actions perfectly, but that you perform them to the best of your ability, and you attempt to make the least mistakes over a designated period of time. A three point shot is easier without opponents than it is with opponents, for example.
So to me, tight play and attempting to perform flawless plays is part of player skill. The person who makes less mistakes is the one who played tighter. Part of that is "strategy" related such as deciding to block or attack or figuring out a sequence. But the other part is more mechanical--such as knowing how to play quickly with a top deck, making sure you don't take too long to shuffle, or even the simple act of not missing your triggers. I bet that the players who perform the most consistently good also happen to be the players who make a lot less mistakes on average.
But that's because I believe execution has a causal relationship with skill. As opposed to assuming "no mistakes" then ___ must be superior to ____.
Different strokes for different folks I guess :)
Don't kick yourself too hard. 6-3 is really solid and respectable. Execution is tied to player skill, but it's not the be-all end-all. Variance is part of magic. Even games where you are "technically perfect", you can still lose to opponents having the nuts OR your own topdecks being poor OR some combination of both. Maverick has a lot of sequencing. I miss half the stuff on the table. Other times I see 3 or 4 card interactions and debate if they are appropriate for the game-state/conditions I am in. The best Maverick lists are run by pilots who have an exact idea on the lines they are looking for. Maverick is crazy-good at rewarding experienced pilots in that regard.Quote:
Originally Posted by TMagpie
What I will critique is DD/Stage. If you run that package, you shouldn't run Maze (Pendlehaven also looks weird here too). Simply put, you need colored mana throughout the game. I also think you need to add Scryb and/or Safekeeper if you go DD/Stage. Scryb lets you aggressively combo (double activation of KotR). Safekeeper protects your army & 20/20 token at-will. Safekeeper also creates the "nuclear" option of blitzing with a KotR (assuming you are gaining momentum OR if the DD/Stage combo were to be interrupted by wasteland/ports/revoker/needle). I haven't been big on Safekeeper personally, but I'm coming back around to Scryb (even in lists without DD/Stage).
Thanks! It was a very enlightening experience playing in my first Grand Prix. I've never played in anything with more than 200+ people and just the range of opponents I had was so incredible. I have a lot of stuff that are not really ordinary that I'm still playing with. Pendelhaven have been great at allowing me to untap with Mom more often as well as giving me a way to fight against massacres. I'm still not fully sold on it, but it has been cute. Maze was a recent return as i was not very happy with a maindeck Sofi and made a last minute audible to swap it for a Maze of Ith. I found I was searching for Ith way more than DD/Stage and its been whats making my Knight such a monster on defense as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Warden
In regards to DD:
I had started using DD during the UR Treasure Cruise era as an out should they go nuclear with token generation. Since then I have bounced back and forth between it and Sigarda as my "trump card" and although very few people were able to stop my combo itself--the combo pieces get very dead if Knight gets neutered. I never noticed it before this tournament and it makes me want to cut it just because of that. I just wish we had a beefy green evasion creature that can be searched for when Knights aren't strong enough to win the game. So although it was never "bad" for me this tournament (I actually had several game wins with it the Friday before day 1) I agree its got to go.
The "Evasive green beater" is sort of the problem with getting the wrong sets of stuff. Technically Mom + KotR/Scooze gives you that, or Sword + KotR/Scooze. When it's just KotR it's obnoxious to grind through their garbage until you hit home. I'd say Deluge is an indirect way to fix this, but that's still just a combo. Sigarda is great for it, but she's 5/6 mana.
IMO, you could always run a 2-of non-green to increase your options. Restro-angel being pretty good at grinding people (untap a dude you have and double block an unsuspecting opponent. save a dude from removal) Hero of Bladehold doesn't have evasion, but is run successfully in DGA sometimes due to it's extreme clock. They're both good for equips (Flash for psuedo-haste, or 3 bodies with Bladehold)
Bitterblossom has been grinding for me really well and is also quite good against miracles (one of the main reasons I've been running it.) I know you guys aren't technically black and that people are skeptical; but I win a lot of games on evasive equips, endless chumps, or just arbitrary pressure.
Also, it's *brutal* against Delver, especially the kinds that lack Abrupt Decay. Gives you a lot of time and eventually gives you evasive dudes to go over the top. I appreciate it's 2-mana cost quite a bit and am mostly working with it right now to figure out. Unlike Lingering Souls, it's not weird next to Thalia, as it just costs (2)B then.
@TMagpie: My trump right now is Tasigur. He takes on fair decks as a vanilla black goyf. That alone kicks ass. Then his ability usually allows me to recur removal/equipment/creatures to continuously throw at the opponent. I wish he was hybrid black-green. He's just stupid strong.Quote:
I just wish we had a beefy green evasion creature that can be searched for when Knights aren't strong enough to win the game. So although it was never "bad" for me this tournament (I actually had several game wins with it the Friday before day 1) I agree its got to go.
Is he a 1-of or more?Quote:
Originally Posted by Warden
(I've been considering running a couple in DGA/Junk over Bob.)
For various reasons, I run Tasigur as a 1x. If death and taxes are big around you, I'd consider pushing him to the board. Even against delver and the mirror, Tasigur has been a ridiculous trump card. I am afraid running 2 would make me see him too often (see: double thalia situation). I only want him to be a big showstopper, not something I absolutely depend upon. For junk, you'd have to consider what packages he plays nicely with (and that's a whole other topic).Quote:
Originally Posted by tescrin
Is it reliable as a one-of or do you just hope you draw it at the right time?Quote:
Originally Posted by Warden
Tasigur is a cool 1-of. Though, personally, I have been liking Siege Rhino as my trump. If I were to play a creature that has a CMC of 4+, I'd rather it have immediate impact. Sometimes, it kills my opponent or a Planeswalker on spot. Against Delver and Burn decks, that 6 Point swing off of GSZ can be big. It has a nice static P/T when grave hate is present. It can also carry SoFI and SoLaS well due to Trample. I am not too keen on Sigarda, personally. Never gave her a shot because of her CMC.
I have been wondering about rhino for some time as well. Although he can't bolt planeswalkers, everything else is pretty valid.Quote:
Originally Posted by L10
Darn it. Everytime I think about Siege Rhino, without fail, I think of this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mt8XtkYb4_0
My bad.
With the way I've been building Maverick, it's the 1x "trump" slot. I figure between fetches, gsz, KotR, and library/top I "see" a large chunk of my deck. Its delve is mechanically "against" KotR and DRS, so I don't want Tasigur too often.Quote:
Originally Posted by TMagpie
I have been mulling over ways to incorporate confidant and tasigur in the same deck, but I'd likely need a junk shell to accommodate their co-existence. I want to run some 3 or 4 color monstrosity but cant find the way to properly achieve the deck I want. I have also been contemplating a deadguy/vial maverick hybrid, but can't put it all together. I'm not sold on a deck dependent upon little dorks. I'm also looking at punishing maverick, but always find it to be inferior to dark mav. The pfires engine is too fragile in a creature-heavy list.