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I think this is the reason why. I understand you've said you are a control player and it is how your play style is; however, I don't believe that is how the deck is suppose to be played. You have ramped lands that drop into massive creatures as soon as possible with lock effects played in ASAP.Quote:
Originally Posted by MGB
Eldrazi Mimics does get the edge from Matter Reshaper, but not Skyspawner. What I like about it is that it goes around Blood Moon through being in play first, or through Lotus Petal. It is something I don't want to dismiss right away, so testing is the best way to determine it.
...that goes in combo with displacer.Quote:
Originally Posted by MGB
a flying body... in other words, something that blocks delver, one of the problematic creatures for this deck.
a token... that makes you mana ramp. That allows you to block batterskulls without having them gain life and, more important, a jitte without having them gain counters on it!
Reshaper too seems too low a power level for legacy. And cycles only if your opponent is not playing white (swords to plowshares, terminus).
As I said, when I first saw the list I thought all the things you're saying now as objections. Then I tried them ;)
Too poor and too "ignorant" (forgive me) gameplan.Quote:
I don't believe that is how the deck is suppose to be played. You have ramped lands that drop into massive creatures as soon as possible
I, on the other hand, think that this is NOT how it is supposed to work. For a starter, as you admitted, at first you have to drop the lock piece: so you already are NOT on the full aggro plan, but you want to go prison before beating. Then, if you are on a colorless list, I agree more with you; but if you run displacer, you are already on the path of "more controllish" (and maybe you are considering going combo with Containment Priest... or Skyspawner :D
Let me be more clear: of course I would not run Skyspawner in a list without Displacers... but once you have the potential of going combo, this adds up with the other pros of this creature and finally makes it worth.
No, it's Stompy, as the thread name specifically states. Historically, stompy's gameplan (dragon, fairy, angel, mono-green plug) has been "disrupt and destroy." Its more comparable to midrange than control. It's also not prison, which wants to drop multiple pieces of permanent-based disruption and then setup and kill (often slowly) in the lategame, the obvious reference here is stax.
Delver needs dealt with immediately, just in general. Does Skyspawner + Displacer come online fast enough often enough for it to be more than you gain one token and kill their delver? Is it bad if that's all it is? I don't know, I have been slowly working on this and while it's still not built, I'm trying to learn from watching and reading and playing against it.
I might be ignorant, but if you have Displacer online, isn't Delver pretty non frightening? Like, a tapped 1/1 that requires to reveal a new instant/sorcery isn't super scary..Quote:
Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee
I agree, which is why I only mentioned Displacer in the context of his comment and only with the combo. I primarily was talking about Skyspawner. I'm unsure if it's the answer because of how lackluster it seems in other matchups compared to Matter Reshaper.
Edit: Also, it doesn't actually kill Delver, and more than likely eats a removal spell within a couple turns. But idk if it does, or if they just stall out on the flying beats and use removal on bigger threats and try to goyf/YP you to death. I guess it depends on if you have a Chalice on board?
I agree with all you said about stompy strategy... I was trying to explain the same thing but maybe couldn't explain well (can we say "stompy = first move as if you were prison, second move as if you were aggro"? :D) Personally anyway, I think that having a late-game plan is good ;) even if you hope to close the match long before the late-game.
(just for the sake of a philosophic discussion... by definition midrange includes both an aggro AND A CONTROL component ;)).
With displacer + skyspawner you have 8 pieces that can (COULD, potentially, not for sure of course) deal with delver instead of 4.
Even if they finally get rid of them, the time you have bought hopefully should be enough.
Anyway, we were discussing the choice of skyspawner specifically, so I mentioned ALL the "plus" on her side (since of course I agree with all the downsides that were pointed out), which includes the combo, and also the single token, with all of its upsides ("block" jitte, bypass edict effects, etc).
I think the "combo" is more useful against death and taxes, and maybe shardless, than against delver.
And finally, I think I can summarize my thought with:
I think that if that happens, it is good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee
Ftfy.Quote:
Originally Posted by talpa
Thank you... tough you cold let something go, given that english is not my first language, so of course I have some troubles with slang and acronyms ;)
Eldrazi Skyspawner is too weak for Legacy. If I'd play a "colored" version of Eldrazi, it certainly would be GW for Displacers and Worldbreaker (and there is a little kid inside me wanting to abuse the hell out of Karakas + Ulamog). This kind of build also is legit in a meta that tends to spawn a lot of 20/20 tokens.
While I do not think the blue cards (Drowner of Hope and Skyspawner) are any good in Legacy, I actually lost to basically the Modern UW build in Milano, because Skyspawner and Drowner are ridiculously good at stalling Batterskull (I was on DnT) and Displacer blanks it entirely and doubles as a pseudo-Mother of Runes.
The only sad thing is that there are no useful CiP triggers to abuse with Displacer other than TKS in a GW build.
A 5-0 MTGO deck from today had 2 Grim Monoliths and 2 Crystal Veins.
So Adan you're saying that the UW build is too weak for Legacy but you lost to the very same list and man that I pointed out to this forum, because it seems better equipped vs Death and Taxes (which you were playing). Yes, this makes sense.
And I even started writing saying "When I first looked at this list, it seemed awful, but when you try it, it has his (very good) upsides". Well... I'll stop advocating. Goodbye.
3-1 last night. Played against imperial taxes (2-0), 12 post (2-0) ,shardless (0-2) and burn (2-0).
5-0 again yesterday. 3-2 and 4-1 today. i encounterd riehu in a match. his displacers and drowners racked my world ^^
i lost a unlosable game against miracles, where i accidentally tapt my tomb for lethal..
how do you guys like 4 eyes? i like the blow outs so far.
this is my current list:
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/414918#online
It was nice meeting you! As I was telling to you, I just finished at my job like a month ago and now I have been driving around Europe with my wife so been away from The Source and the games for quite some time. Need to get back on the horse before GP Prague and keep testing different builds. Now mostly W version with 2 Drowners of Hope.Quote:
Originally Posted by Noloam_
How many are coming to GP Prague or going to GP Columbus?
I wish I could go to GP Prague, but a good friend of mine has his 30th birthday party on the GP Friday and I don't want to miss that. And I don't have the deck in paper yet. :tongue:
I plan on playing the Legacy Challenge this Saturday, though. Everybody knowing now that I play Eldrazi instead of being the dark horse certainly is a disadvantage. Oh well.
I'll do some further testing the next two days, but I guess I'll stick to Contortion instead of Strangler in the board due being more flexible. I'll test Strangler more once I find the time.
i always wanted to test contortion in the side. but i cant side room for it. i like my anti reanimate/storm package too much. i dont like losing these matches.
i went 5-0 today. i had to play against grixis delver in the finals. I mulled this hand on the play. grixis wins most of the time by using therpy or wasteland i.m.o. whould you guys keep it?
http://nl.tinypic.com/r/2itn71e/9
(somehow the imageupload doesnt work)
I goldfished some games having Matter Reshaper replaced with Eldrazi Skyspawner. It puts you back to the problem of colored mana sources, but now you have to support Displacer and Skyspawner, making Lotus Petal insufficient. You also end up having more variance in the deck, whether you increase the colored eldrazi mana count or not, having you draw the wrong half of the deck can swing the game against your favor. Overall, Matter Reshaper still fits the spot better, unless you have 14 consistent color eldrazi mana sources. (4 Cavern, 4 Crossroads, 3 painlands, 3 Mox)
I think I keep that on the play. We're a bit threat light, but Factory, Removal, and a T2 TKS should stick at least one of them. The hands that lose to are what, at least 4 exact cards (Delver + 2 Counters/Therapy + Wasteland)?Quote:
Originally Posted by Noloam_
1 therapy or a daze on the turn 2 thoughtknot whould be bad. so you have to cast a turn 3 thoughtknot. which is not impressive in my opinionQuote:
Originally Posted by Nocley