[Deck] Fetchland Tendrils

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Originally Posted by rsaunder

Does anyone have any examples of good "pass the turn" stacks? I remember finding a couple at one point, but I haven't been able to.

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Doomsday-go piles are really situational, unless you have already boarded in Helm of Awakening. Otherwise, to get high storm, you need IGG, double Top or double Doomsday. The last 2 require lots of mana to become a one shot kill against an opponent that didn't already damage himself. Given that, the best use for those piles are after a low storm Tendrils, getting you into a much more comfortable situation, for you have lots of life to guarantee you will see the next turn and for your opponent will succumb to a storm of 5 or less.

An illustration of that would be something like this: Dark Ritual, Dark Ritual, Doomsday, Tendrils. The cost for this is only 2B. Now, add to the flexibility of the situation things like Cabal Therapy while on threshold, more rituals, Infernal Tutor with LED and others. You will be able to generate storm counts of 5 or more, leaving a much more relaxed situation for your next turn.

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Originally Posted by Whit3 Ghost

SDT in play, 2 cards in hand, 2U the turn after you cast doomsday

[Top]
Brainstorm
LED
Helm
SDT
Grapeshot
[Bottom]

Requires 2U and 2 cards in hand (any) the turn after you cast doomsday. There aren't other stacks worth memorizing although there are some that involve IGG, I believe.

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I must be missing something here. It seems you're one card short of actually getting the Grapeshot.

Untap, draw Brainstorm
Play Brainstorm, draw LED, Helm, SDT, put two blanks on top.
Play your hand out. Break LED for RRR.
Tap a Top to draw a blank. Tap the other Top to draw that Top. Repeat for storm 1000.

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Originally Posted by Nihil Credo

I must be missing something here. It seems you're one card short of actually getting the Grapeshot.

Untap, draw Brainstorm
Play Brainstorm, draw LED, Helm, SDT, put two blanks on top.
Play your hand out. Break LED for RRR.
Tap a Top to draw a blank. Tap the other Top to draw that Top. Repeat for storm 1000.

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Use the LED mana to move Grapeshot on top for when you're ready to combo?

Also, new stack technology:
Cost: Sensei's Divining Top in play, 2 random cards in hand, 2 life, and 1U mana
Benefit: 9 storm + Tendrils

[Top]
Brainstorm
Lion's Eye Diamond
Lion's Eye Diamond
Ill-Gotten Gains
Tendrils of Agony
[Bottom]

• Tap SDT to draw into Brainstorm (1U floating).
• Play Brainstorm (1 floating) to draw into SDT, LED, LED. Put back 2 random cards. Play LED, LED, SDT. Break LEDs for UUU and BBB.
• Pay B to rearrange the top3 using SDT putting IGG on top.
• Tap SDT to draw into IGG. Play IGG (floating U) returning LED, LED, Brainstorm.
• Play LED, LED, Brainstorm (breaking both LED for BBBBBB) to draw SDT.
• Play SDT.
• Pay B to rearrange the top3 using SDT putting Tendrils of Agony on top.
• Tap SDT to draw Tendrils of Agony.
• Play Tendrils of Agony with at least 9 storm.

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Originally Posted by Whit3 Ghost

Use the LED mana to move Grapeshot on top for when you're ready to combo?

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I should probably have invested the extra 30 seconds thinking.

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Originally Posted by Nihil Credo

I should probably have invested the extra 30 seconds thinking.

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That's what I think every time I do anything with this deck. I always use a cantrip, wish I'd held it for a kill. Hold a cantrip, get bogged down. Miss the doomsday kill. This is the most thinking-intensive deck I've ever played.

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Originally Posted by rsaunder

That's what I think every time I do anything with this deck. I always use a cantrip, wish I'd held it for a kill. Hold a cantrip, get bogged down. Miss the doomsday kill. This is the most thinking-intensive deck I've ever played.

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A solution might be to run more cantrips. Here's the list I've been messing around with:
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
1 Island
1 Swamp
2 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Isalnd
1 Tundra
1 Scrubland
1 Bayou
1 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual
1 Cabal Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Street Wraith
3 Thoughtseize
3 Orim's Chant
1 Krosan Grip
3 Doomsday
1 Infernal Tutor
4 Mystical Tutor
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Cruel Bargain
1 Meditate
1 Tendrils of Agony

Sideboard:
2 Krosan Grip
1 Wipe Away
1 Echoing Truth
1 Rushing River
2 Xantid Swarm
1 Orim's Chant
1 Thoughtseize
2 Extirpate
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Sudden Death
1 Helm of Awakening
1 Grapeshot

Props to brandon for posting this at:
http://emidln.googlepages.com/lists

Will, buddy, are you his voice on the source now? ^_^

I think I'm starting to agree more and more with this list, save perhaps the green splash. Yeah, I know K.Grip is sexcellent but it worries me that someone dropping teeg/mage game 1 means GG. I just prefer wipe away, personally. It also makes the X1BBB doomsday stack all that much easter, not needing green mana.

My manabase has been:

4 strand
4 delta
2 sea
2 tundra
1 volcanic (soon to be changed to sea#3, I think)
1 scrubland
1 swamp
1 island

1 petal
4 LED
4 D.Rit
4 C. Rit

I've been enjoying the way this has run, fetching tundras early to bluff thresh for game 1 since the added rits make only one B producer necessary. I certainly can see how one would cut the 3 extra caball rits but in the build I've been playing with I needed them to keep up the fast IT based kills of Grim IGG. I've been doing less and less of that, though. Doomsday is so much nicer, even if it does make it more risky to combo. I think what I'm going to be playing with now looks like:

4 D. Rit
4 LED
1 Petal
2 C. Rit

3 Doomsday
4 Mystical
1 IT

1 Tendrils
1 IGG
1 Meditate
1 Cruel Bargain

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Sensei's
2 Other Cantrip*

2 Thoughtseize
1 Duress
3 Chant
1 Wipe away

4 Strand
4 Delta
3 Sea (one of these might become another basic, if moon's gonna see play)
2 Tundra
1 Scrub
1 Island
1 Swamp

*4 street wraith is very life-intensive, especially running 8 fetches and thoughtseize alongside doomsdays and bargains. It's come into play a couple times against red thresh. Who knows, this slot might either get upped to 3 or 4 and I'll use street wraith/other cantrip or it might be cut completely for more rits again.

EDIT: I like emidln's list from the above post, although NO IT? I can see 4 doomsday but I like the ability to tutor for IT if I need to.

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Originally Posted by rsaunder

EDIT: I like emidln's list from the above post, although NO IT? I can see 4 doomsday but I like the ability to tutor for IT if I need to.

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Without Infernal Tutor and with less rituals, IGG seems more like another Doomsday tool, since you won't have all that many pumping spells to flashback. How slow is the goldfish with these changes (less IT and Cabal)?

And why are you dropping Serenities? I see 2 Rushing River and 2 Ancient Grudges in Emidln's sideboard, while only Rushing River as your "mass" Chalices, Thorns and Spheres removal spell. It doesn't clear the need for basic plains, as you still want to cast Chants, but Grudge is not flashbackable as much as Serenity is not castable with a Moon on the board.

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Originally Posted by Jaiminho

And why are you dropping Serenities? I see 2 Rushing River and 2 Ancient Grudges in Emidln's sideboard, while only Rushing River as your "mass" Chalices, Thorns and Spheres removal spell. It doesn't clear the need for basic plains, as you still want to cast Chants, but Grudge is not flashbackable as much as Serenity is not castable with a Moon on the board.

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Because answers to Blue are more important than answers to Chalice decks at the moment. Also, you usually only need to bounce one thing once you have a win set up. Sudden Death should probably be a Rebuild or the second Rushing River.

I registered this list in the mtgsal tourney. I'll keep you guys updated, hopefully with play-by-play analysis.

4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Underground Sea
1 Tundra
1 Tropical Island
1 Volcanic Island
1 Scrubland
1 Bayou
1 Badlands
1 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Dark Ritual
1 Cabal Ritual
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Duress
4 Orim's Chant
1 Krosan Grip
4 Mystical Tutor
4 Doomsday
1 Meditate
1 Cruel Bargain
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Tendrils of Agony

SB: 2 Ancient Grudge
SB: 2 Rushing River
SB: 1 Echoing Truth
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Wipe Away
SB: 2 Extirpate
SB: 1 Pyroclasm
SB: 1 Slaughter Pact
SB: 1 Helm of Awakening
SB: 1 Grapeshot

4x D-Day seems extreme, and no Infernal Tutors seems slow. The Badlands and Bayou makes me raise an eyebrow, especially with only 2x lands that produce white and no basic plains. Could the Bayou be changed to a Savannah or something?

The list seems to be stabilizing, but it's slowed way down, at least in my testing. I'm not going off until turn 7 once in a while, and that's SLOOOOWWWwww....

Pce,

--DC

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Originally Posted by Dark_Cynic87

4x D-Day seems extreme, and no Infernal Tutors seems slow. The Badlands and Bayou makes me raise an eyebrow, especially with only 2x lands that produce white and no basic plains. Could the Bayou be changed to a Savannah or something?

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I don't see the merits of Savannah, it doesn't produce Blue or Black, both of which are the most important colors of the deck. I agree though that badlands and bayou aren't the greatest, but that's because they don't produce blue, so it makes it less wise to keep a 1-2 lander with a cantrip. I see where you're coming from, but I think a basic plains, or a second tundra would be more fitting.

The manabase is incredibly stable as-is. I have just as many blue sources to use for Ponder/Brainstorm as Thrash, along with my extra lands providing sometimes keepable hands on Sensei's Top.

Doomsday speeds up the deck because it requires less mana (and thus fewer lands or rituals) and fewer cards to win the game. 4 is a good number. Infernal Tutor served me by pissing me off when it was making Doomsday cost 1B more or acting in the same capacity as Tarpan as I shuffled it away with Brainstorm. The theoretical use against discard never actually surfaced because Doomsday does the job as well or better. If you were going to use it in the capacity against Discard, you'd need at least 2 Infernal Tutor and another Ill-Gotten Gains between main and sideboard. If the metagame is heavy enough black to warrant that, I'd probably rather just play with Dark Confidants (especially considering the tendency of black decks to sideboard in graveyard hate in games 2 and 3).

I've played with a basic plains in my sideboard recently, but I took it out for the MTGSal tourney as it seems many of the Landstill lists there don't play Wasteland.

You guys may find this useful,

4 Doomsday
4 Lim Dul's Vault
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Brainstorm
4 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Wipe Away
4 Duress
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Ill Gotten Gains
1 Meditate
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
3 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island
1 Island

4 Vexing Shusher
4 Shattering Spree
1 Grape Shot
1 Helm of Awakening

I've been running that shell ever since the TES vs FT E-Penis Wars and Emidln looks close to running that shell with out the Infernal Tutors and the acceleration for T3 kills. I SB out the acceleration for the disruption a lot, so the decks are borderline identical if you don't over load on cantrips over threats.

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Originally Posted by BreathWeapon

You guys may find this useful,

4 Doomsday
4 Lim Dul's Vault
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Brainstorm
4 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Wipe Away
4 Duress
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Ill Gotten Gains
1 Meditate
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
3 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island
1 Island

4 Vexing Shusher
4 Shattering Spree
1 Grape Shot
1 Helm of Awakening

I've been running that shell ever since the TES vs FT E-Penis Wars and Emidln looks close to running that shell with out the Infernal Tutors and the acceleration for T3 kills. I SB out the acceleration for the disruption a lot, so the decks are borderline identical if you don't over load on cantrips over threats.

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I actually have a build that is nearly identical to that (manabase changes for Krosan Grips where you have Shattering Sprees because I used Shusher to skirt Chalices) and an Echoing Truth in the sb. I didn't end up liking Shusher because there was too much burn around me, but I could totally see playing it and being as happy with it. The really cool thing about builds with Doomsday, LDV, and Tutor is that a resolved Vault is always GG, even if your hand is relatively shitty (drawing 4-5 cards that you get to look for does that). The build I'm playing now really lacks that, but it has more disruption to try to make up for it. With the extra acceleration, you can probably pull off a large number of turn 2 kills involving Doomsday (hands like land, land, dark rit, cabal rit/lotus petal/dark rit, doomsday, sensei's top, blank are guaranteed turn 2s against aggro). I'd also imagine that between Petals, Infernal Tutors, and ETW, you have a significantly better Eva Green/suicide black matchup than I've had recently.

No white?

No orim's chant?


Doesn't this make the deck extremely vulnerable...

Also, with infernal tutor, are the four DDays necessary?


I will test your list breath, but I will admit, that I think it looks a little shakier than 'regular' FT.

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Originally Posted by thefreakaccident

No white?

No orim's chant?


Doesn't this make the deck extremely vulnerable...

Also, with infernal tutor, are the four DDays necessary?


I will test your list breath, but I will admit, that I think it looks a little shakier than 'regular' FT.

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It's quicker and I like the prospect of Duress, Duress, win due to your manabase being much more explosive than past incarnations of DDay. Depending on the metagame, I might run a second IGG instead of the ETW, especially if I'm playing against a lot of discard. I also don't like the lack of Ponder, but that's neither here nore there. Shusher is interesting Counterbalance tech as well. I'll probably be getting around to testing this at some point, I'll post my thoughts when I do.

This deck is making my head spin, but in a good way...

That's a very different look at the deck, although I personally miss chant and serenity. The build also seems less blue reliant, for some reason which I like.

In any case, I just thought I'd throw this out there:

3 Doomsday
2 Mystical
3 IT
4 LDV

4 petal
4 d. rit
4 c. rit
4 LED

4 SDT
4 Brainstorm

3 Chant
1 Wipe

1 IGG
1 Tendrils
1 Bargain
1 Meditate
1 ETW

4 delta
4 strand
1 swamp
1 island
2 u. sea
1 tundra
1 volc
1 badlands

SB:
1 chant
3 serenity
1 river
1 wipe
1 spree

15 land supporting four colors (although I could see dropping down to 3 petals for one more sea), 16 accel, mystical tutor to go get protection (<= also good against sui/whatever). The only gripe I have with this build is the low cantrip count. It's another one of those "hold brainstorms as a combo piece or cast them to setup" situations, but that's the nature of the beast.

Like the accell issue, how many vaults/IT's can one drop before they stop being effective? 4 vaults makes sense (3 looks like minimum, perhaps 2 if mystical=> protection is a big play, upping those to 4) for that brokenness but can you get away with 3 IT? 2? 1?

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Originally Posted by Whit3 Ghost

It's quicker and I like the prospect of Duress, Duress, win due to your manabase being much more explosive than past incarnations of DDay. Depending on the metagame, I might run a second IGG instead of the ETW, especially if I'm playing against a lot of discard. I also don't like the lack of Ponder, but that's neither here nore there. Shusher is interesting Counterbalance tech as well. I'll probably be getting around to testing this at some point, I'll post my thoughts when I do.

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The problem without chant is that you lose access to the IGG Doomsday stacks if the opponent has a Force, even if you've duressed it out of their hand. It looks like a nice list, and I'm definitely going to try it, but I really think the lack of chant hurts it.

Orim's Chant vs Duress is a question of whether or not Force of Will or Counterbalance is our main concern, and I'm positive our main concern isn't Instants but permanents. Even tho' Duress doesn't allow for IGG based wins, it's not relevant unless you draw 2xOrim's Chant, and not being allowed an IGG based win is no where near as devastating as allowing a Counterbalance to resolve.

In short, it's easy to find a way to win thru' Force of Will in the graveyard, and it's hard to find a way to win thru' Counterbalance on the board, so your disruption should be aimed at Counterbalance first and Force of Will second.

Guys, Lim Dul's Vault > Mystical Tutor, being able to get either Vexing Shusher or Lion's Eye Diamond and setting up 5 draws is the nuts, just ask your opponents whether or not they'd counter Lim Dul's Vault over Mystical Tutor and the answer is yes, yes ... yes.

If you guys have any questions, fire away.