No.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chatto
Don't side out Iok/seize is ok...hymn is too dangerous...in my opinion
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No.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chatto
Don't side out Iok/seize is ok...hymn is too dangerous...in my opinion
Hymn may hit cards Dredge wants to hard cast. Like Careful Study or Breakthrough. However, it also may hit cards he wants to discard, like Bridge from Below or Ichorid. Ultimately, this randomness is bad. I'd side out Hymn, but I WOULDN'T side out Sinkhole. Oddly enough, being unable to cast anything in Dredge is actually a BAD thing. Inquisition of Kozilek will hit everythingQuote:
Originally Posted by Chatto
If they can't cast any of their 1 cmc draw spells to 'dredge' faster, it's a significant setback. Night of Souls + E. Plague on Zombies is usually lights out since no Dread Returns can be flashbacked to create zombies. Ichorid and Narcomoeba are extirpated lol.
Take note of the post earlier where somebody saw an opening Cabal Therapy, assumed Dredge, and simply conceded before even playing a land or revealing his hand. I've found that strategy also works against combo and burn very readily and they won't know what to sideboard. It's a sharp tactic that deserves mention.
hi, decided to leave out most 1 cmc cards:
wrench mind seem like a good card.
//Lands
2 Cabal Pit
4 Mishra's Factory
8 Swamp
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
//Spells
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
4 The Rack
1 Crucible of Worlds
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Dark Ritual
2 Pox
4 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
1 The Abyss
4 Wrench Mind
//Creatures
4 Bloodghast
1 Nether Spirit
//Sideboard
SB: 4 Chalice of the Void
SB: 1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
SB: 2 Engineered Plague
SB: 4 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 3 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Karakas
I think that with only14 black lands you've too many BB and BBB...wasteland on your urborg should be fatal for you..Quote:
Originally Posted by sarahiscute
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
2 tombstalkers
2 cabal pits
1 spinning darkness
-i'm a bit iffy about this configuration for obvious reasons..
how's it working for you..
It did not work.Quote:
Originally Posted by zenitramleirdag
I do not know what else to try. I'm quite disappointed with my last results.
Here's mine if you want to try it out. Waste Not is a very good card, and amazing if you have more than one on the board. I removed the Dark Rituals because they are card disadvantage for tempo - we don't need that fast of a start as this is a prison-style of deck, aka it goes for the long game. Waste Not can also help supplement the mana once on the board. I do want to sideboard 4 Dark Ritual vs. combo decks, but haven't decided what to remove yet. I am also considering removing the 1 Ensnaring Bridge for a Sensei's Divining Top as it can be a bitch with all the zombies the Waste Nots can create.
Land
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra’s Factory
1 Mutavault
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
12 Swamp
Total: 24
Creatures
1 Nether Spirit
Total: 1
Spells
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Smallpox
1 Nether Void
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Cursed Scroll
4 Inquisition of Kozilek/Encroach
1 Sensei’s Divining Top
4 Innocent Blood
4 Sinkhole
4 Waste Not
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Thoughtseize
Total: 35
Sideboard:
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Surgical Extraction
4 Pithing Needle
3 Engineered Plague
I'll try this deck this weekend:
1 Nether Spirit
4 Mishra's Factory
12 Swamp
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
2 Cursed Scroll
4 Dark Ritual
3 Hymn to Tourach
4 Innocent Blood
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Nether Void
2 Pox
4 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
3 Waste Not
Now this list I am curious about. How do you deal with all the BB costs in your deck? I have had quite a few games lately where having the ritual has saved me soo hard creating the multiple black. I do dislike ensnaring main, side it seems fine. Top seems legit, also unsure if I like the 4 Waste Not. I hated running 4 in modern and have a happy 3 roughly in legacy. How are your match ups vs Tier 1 decks? My biggest struggle lately has been Death and Taxes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teluin
@ Bruno
24 lands doesn't seem enough with 6 "Pox" effect.
I would do something like
-1 Pox (5 "Pox" Effect is enough)
-1 Sinkhole ("weakest" card of Pox (but a personnal favorite) )
+1 Swamp (to recover from "Pox" effect easily)
+1 Hymn to tourach (2 for 1)
I like cursed scroll a lot.
Most of my opponent use Pithing Needle on Cursed Scroll.
That's the card that annoys them the most.
Liliana is easier to beat than the srcoll.
So I would tweak like that
-1 Waste Not
+1 Cursed scroll (good cardboard is good)
That's my personnal taste, of course.
I'm not a fan of waste not in Pox.
Have you consider Night of Souls' Betrayal maindeck?
A lot of player scoff at the card but a resolved NoSB is hell
for an Patriot Delver deck. Same for DnT, BRUG delver, elves, etc.
It helps all our innocent blood, smallpox, pox and they draw useless card over and over.
What do your sideboard look like and what matchup do you expect ?
Peace.
My field is complicated. Much show and tell, sneak atack, and hypergenesis reanimatorsQuote:
Originally Posted by coricho
Night of Souls Betrayal does nothing in my case.
My idea was to balance the deck with cards 1 for 2. Like this:
*** Land disruption: 4 wasteland, 4 sinkhole, 4 smallpox and 2 pox = 14
*** Discards: 4 Inquisition, 4 liliana, 4 smallpox and 2 pox = 14
*** Removal: 4 innocent blood 4 liliana, 4 smallpox and 2 pox = 14
*** Threats: 1 Nether Spirit 4 Factory and Scroll 2 = 7 more tokens 2/2 eventually put at stake by not waste.
The three slots were Hymn to potentiate Waste Not.
I really like Cursed Scroll but waste not need to keep running in mid or late game with liliana.
I definitely do not like 25 land and not necessarily'll use 6 pox. When I get on top deck mode I always give me bad.
Buuuut, but, I'll listen. A pox take away and put one more land.
My side is:
3 Engeneered Plague
4 Leyline of the Void
4 extirpate
2 Pithing Needle
2 Ensnaring Bridge
Sorry for my bad English.
It's very rarely an issue, and even then that's due to my ballsy 7-hand keeps. There are 14 lands that produce black mana, not to mention Waste Not which only requires 1B to cast, that creates B mana. As for the playset of Waste Not - it's amazing when you have 2+ of them on the board. It might not work in Modern, but they don't have Hymn to Tourach. So. much. card. advantage. Try it out! The match-up vs. creature decks is strong. I mentioned Storm being the reason I want to sideboard the 4 Dark Rituals, as you want as much hand disruption on T1 as possible. D&T's alright as long as you can get a Pithing Needle. Other than that, most of their cards are 1-for-1s so you can beat 'em.Quote:
Originally Posted by bonkotsu
For your maindeck:Quote:
Originally Posted by bonkotsu
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Engineered Plague (naming human or Kor if NoSB is already out)
And you'll never hear from D&T ever again. :cool:
What's kind of awesome is a single MD Plague also works against a ton of other decks as a 3 cmc creature Extirpate. You want to kill top decks? Play permanents that punish them for it. NoSB and Engineered Plague on Zombies auto-wins vs. Dredge.
here's what i'll be running on sunday..wish me luck guys..
12 swamp
4 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
1 bojuka bog
4 mishra's factory
4 wasteland
4 dark ritual
4 inquisition of kozilek
4 hymn to tourach
4 sinkhole
4 smallpox
1 pox
4 liliana of the veil
1 nether spirit
3 cursed scroll
2 night of soul's betrayal
1 engineered plague
4 innocent blood
-61 cards
sideboard
2 pithing needle
1 nether void
1 thoughseize
1 trinisphere
1 ratchet bomb
2 surgical extraction
2 extirpate
3 engineered plague
2 spinning darkness
i'll keep you guys posted..
@ zenitramleirdag: how did it went for you?
Just got home, went 3-4-2 at the Legacy open. Will right a decent report when I wake up tomorrow. I think I did acceptably for my first open.
I really like this list! But I have a few questions and observations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teluin
Ever since I saw the completed text on Waste Not I wanted to make this card happen and with the announcement of its CMC I started playtesting with proxies. Bonkotsu already asked about the right amount and you gave the reason I thought of: 2+ in play are awesome and you also want to max your chances of putting it down on turn 2 or 3.
Maindecking rituals makes the deck too inconsistent since they may be a dead draw later on when you need some action. An almost combolike start with blacksource -> ritual -> Waste Not -> Encroach -> Hymn... is too cute to be an actual reason for running them. I don't know if the combo matchup makes them worth for sideboarding but I'll test it.
14 stable blacksources seem way better than the 10-11 (+ rituals) I tested with. I wasn't sure about the total land amount without rituals but 24 look to be good.
You put "4 Inquisition of Kozilek/Encroach". Encroach is obviously awesome with Waste Not and I got my playset last autumn, but when (if ever) do you consider swapping them in for the inquisitions? You have 13 other discard effects that are able to catch real threats.
Which way do you end the game in most cases? It looks like a big 2 dmg beatdown while controlling the opponent plan. Do you sometimes miss a big Tombstalker and have you tried racks in place of the Cursed Scrolls? Cursed Scroll kind of fits Pox's old problem of controlling early and midgame, then falling off a bit because you end up topdecking emptyhanded quite a lot. But we try to fix this with Waste Not and Sensei’s Divining Top which make us 'draw cards'. Is there maybe enough discard incoming to make The Rack work? Or is the ability of targeting creatures too imporant?
In which game situation do you like to play Nether Void? Regarding your own boardstate I mean. For me it looks kinda similar to Standstill which is still a strong card but you absolutely need to know when to cast it or else it will hurt you more than you can actually take.
Sink Hole is an awesome card :) Love to play the alphas.
As you can see from this comment I like to durdle with my decks at home a lot :D But I hope those questions get me somewhere since I've only been playing Pox at my weekly casual meetup for quite some time because it didn't feel strong enough for tournaments. Now my friends hate me so that needs to change.
I loved Teluins list so I decided to try it with minor changes.
Land
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra’s Factory
1 Mutavault
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
12 Swamp
Total: 24
Creatures
1 Nether Spirit
Total: 1
Spells
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Smallpox
1 Nether Void
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Cursed Scroll
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Sensei’s Divining Top
4 Innocent Blood
4 Sinkhole
4 Waste Not
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Thoughtseize
Total: 35
Sideboard:
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
2 Zuran Orb
1 Surgical Extraction
4 Pithing Needle
3 Engineered Plague
This being my first open and first big legacy tournament I figured it would be a big learning curve, I always follow legacy streams and articles but rarely do more than OT, IQ, or anything. Decided to write down player names and what they were playing, tried to write down cards to remember what mistakes I made to help me learn from them.
Round 1: Faithless Mud WIN
This deck was strange, I am very used to playing against normal Metalworker versions but never ones using Faithless Looting and Goblin Welder
Game 1: He did his cute shenanigans and got a Sundering Titan in turn 2, and would recycle it and a Wurmcoil Engine to make my life miserable.
Game 2: Boarded in Leyline of the Void and Pithing Needle was incredible easy. Got out the Leyline, would hit his hand hard and his lands, not much he could do
Game 3: Rinse repeat, this time he chose to play Trinisphere Turn 1 instead of worker, either way I could deal with it so no worries
Round 2: Imperial Painter (turns out this guy got 13th place) Loss
Game 1: His struggle was real, I kept him off of cards in hand and lands. He got out a Grindstone and I was able to hit 3 of his 4 Painter's Servant Proceeds to then topdeck the 4th and that was it.
Game 2: Put in Chains of Mephistopheles and Pithing Needle I had a slower start, eventually Jaya Ballard, Task Mage got rid of it and got there.
Round 3: Esper Deathblade Draw
Game 1: Relatively easy, I would hit his threats, keep him off of lands, and sat back behind Nether Void and withered him away.
Game 2: Void and Chains did real work here, unfortunately I couldn't hit my Needle to shut off Jace, The Mind Sculptor to save me from his ult
Game 3: Went to time
Round 4: No Show Little victories
Round 5: Loam Depths Loss
Game 1: Took forever, I could hit the Dark Depths or the Thespian's Stage but he could just recycle them back and eventually I lost
Game 2: Boarded in Leyline and Needle, had a strong opener so I thought I could do without for a few turns then draw into them, I was sadly mistaken
Round 6: Sneak & Show Win
Game 1: He went off insanely fast and got me, wasn't much I could do I feel
Game 2: Needle, Chains, and Liliana did real work here. He was able to get in with a Griselbrand once and I was able to shut him out after that
Game 3: Crucible and Needle were out (needle on Sneak) and he breached an Emrakul, the Aeons Torn got rid of all my lands and would play them from Crucible, kept him off of cards, withered him away staying at 5 life
Round 7: Loam Depths Loss
First I need to say that there is a special place in hell for people who play land decks in legacy
Game 1: Same shit different player
Game 2: Alright I got this, Double Leyline and Needle on Thespian's Stage. Nope, Krosan Grip on Needle and go off turn 2. Had Top out looking for an answer to the creature with zero luck
Round 8: Esper Deathblade Draw
Game 1: Shut him out easy, kept him off of lands and got out the Void
Game 2: He got there too fast for me to deal with sadly, very fast few turns
Game 3: Went to time, I withered him away to 5 life while I was still at 16, he claimed he could still beat me however I was going to draw into a Smallpox and could Scroll and Manland him down.
This guy I need to make a special note for. I asked politely if he wanted to concede and he said no, no worries. Game 3 he asked me to shuffle faster to finish the match, however he took his sweet ass time Brainstorming which cost us to go to time. After the match he proceeded to tell me that my build was bad and that it didn't have answers to things like his did.
Round 9: Death and Taxes Loss
Game 1: Locked him out hard, Void, no lands, no creatures could survive.
Game 2: I kept a poor hand and paid for it.
Game 3: This one I made the most mental notes on because of my own miss plays. Had Plague out on Elementals and Humans to keep him from doing much. First big mistake, I hard casted Nether Spirit vs discarding with Liliana. Reason this was dumb was he just Plowed it =/ Second big mistake, I reminded HIM of my tabernacle trigger on his upkeep right as he was about to draw a card. Would have been GG.
I can say I learned a lot. I know what I did wrong and how to fix it. My main changes to the deck might be swapping IoK for Encroach out of curiosity, an Ensnaring Bridge to the side, and maybe a card to deal with Storm althought I didn't see any storm players.
Assholery at its finest. I've been told that you can actually have a judge check for stalling. CounterTop idiots have been known to do that. Little note, if it takes more than 2 minutes to decide what to do with 3 cards, in a timed match, you should most definitely ask a judge for assistance on that. Make sure to whisper it so the enemy doesn't know. I ran into a SDT user doing this. He'd SDT sometimes 2x in a turn while mumbling to himself. I got him DQ'd when I asked a judge to observe a game for 2 turns. For the record, serious players should use rules so jerks get called out. The community can be toxic with circumstances like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by bonkotsu
Sad part is that I have had to deal with level 1 and 2 judges going the slow play route more than anything. Im not as upset about slow play as I am you telling me my deck and build are bad. I beat you didn't I? I was going to beat you next turn had you not taken forever brainstorming right? I dont like to think one bad apple ruins a bunch due to the fact that my magic community is great, and so far I have made more friends than anything through the game, however it does put a sour taste in my mouth at the end of the day.Quote:
Originally Posted by OmniStrata
Any ideas for building a chalice pox? (Besides running chrome mox;-))
I get that it's competitive REL and that this is a real thing, but at the same time..: you really want to steal Round 9 when you're x-100-2 when it's basically just casual playing at that point? You weren't going to win anything had you hosed the guy and his apparent bad memory after a 9+ hour day of playing and by losing you hopefully learned how a good opponent would've beaten you. Your experience was in contrast to:Quote:
Originally Posted by bonkotsu
You: "LOL, I totally screwed this guy with a judge call over a rule that should've never been worded that way"
Your Friend: "What'd you win by doing that?"
You: "Nothing! LOL. I got to be a total douche to the guy! It was simply to make sure he felt terrible on his drive home that the rules are worded so badly on this card that by forgetting a trigger he shouldn't have to control he sacrifices all of his stuff."
Call me an idiot-douche-moron, but I still live in a world where the pride of winning comes from outplaying an opponent and not because of badly worded 20-year-old mechanics that wizards never fixed.
speaking of upkeep costs/requirements/triggers, its good to have something to remind you of it; i, frinstance, like to put a die on top o' my library so i won't accidentally forget things like nether spirit's trigger, etc, and proceed to draw..
I find mumbling to myself, "Untap, Upkeep (check graveyard), Draw" to be my most common procedure. of course, if your deck has other upkeep triggers, you have to memorize those, but some people ask me why I do that. My reply, "it's in the rules?" It also tends to annoy people I don't like which is why I do it more often at times. :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by zenitramleirdag
Encroach was actually just me copy-pasting an idea from my word document and forgetting to remove them when posting on here. They're something I want to try instead of IoK, but haven't yet. The idea behind Encroach is that with all of the land destruction/discard in the deck, the opponent wouldn't have the chance to cast their spells - this would make Waste Not that much better as their hand would be all creatures/spells. I don't know that I'd want to remove the IoKs though, so I've been considering removing the 1-ofs in the deck to fit them in; Thoughtseize and Ensnaring Bridge would be fine but Sensei's Divining Top really does help and I kind of miss 2 in the deck. Also debating the Nether Void but it's so cool..Quote:
Originally Posted by Steamflogger
As for Tombstalker, I've never been a fan of it in Pox. Innocent Blood and Ensnaring Bridge are probably the two biggest reasons for this. I don't play The Rack either because it only pings away their life a bit at a time without doing anything else to their board/hand or my board (whereas Waste Not does). Cursed Scroll does this, but it can also be used for targeted creature removal - something this deck lacks - and to deal with planeswalkers. I'm also not sure what you mean about late game - that's when Cursed Scroll is the best as you want to have it in play when topdecking.
Nether Void is a card I just can't bring myself to remove but probably should. Without Dark Rituals it's too slow, despite the obvious cool factor.
Nether Void isn't meant to be a true prison turn 2 lock. You disrupt the snot out of your opponents resources, than 8 turns in you drop a void with both of you hellbent. Now your deck was built to work under a void. Cursed Scroll, Mishra's Factory, and Nether Spirit aren't affected by it and your opponent, who probably has no threats by now, is twiddling their thumbs as you kill them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teluin
Nether Void isn't too slow, you're trying to cast it too fast. :laugh:
I know how to play the deck :P. If they have any sort of board presence then it's just a dead card in your hand as you wait to find an answer. Ever drawn a bunch of swamps when you just want a control piece? If you call yourself a Pox player then you definitely have. Another issue is that Nether Void can be the last card in your hand when you don't have enough mana on board due to Smallpox and Wastelands, meanwhile the opponent gains time to rebuild their board - this doesn't take much for many of the decks in Legacy. Part of the trick with this deck is that it can be inconsistent - I work towards minimizing that. Nether Void can be great, but a lot of times it's a card I just keep putting off to cast because their board presents a faster clock than mine and/or I just don't have the mana for it. Thus Dark Rituals.Quote:
Originally Posted by OmniStrata
Ensnairing Bridge really is an argument against Tombstalker and since the bridge feels right to me that one is settled.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teluin
What I meant when talking about late game and The Rack was that Waste Not and Sensei’s Divining Top are supposed give us cards in mid and late game when pox normally tends to run out of gas. And I was debating whether that would make Rack viable since we should have more discard ready to clear their hands. But as you stated Cursed Scroll is more versatile than Rack.
Coming back to the combo matchup: I would have to include some broader help from sideboard. AKA fast combo hate. Would you include some classic Duress? Leyline deals with PiF, Timespiral and Reanimator. Needle shuts down Sneak Attack, Charbelcher and enough other noncombo shenanigans. Plague eliminates Empty the Warrens, other goblins and elves. Surgical can take key cards but I'm not the greatest fan in the first place. So I'd go for -2 Surgicals -1 Plague and +3 Duress. Do you have other suggestions?
Regarding Nether Void it really seems to come down to what I already said. The right moment. Which also might not even occur because you're lacking the mana.. But the card has so much flavour that you should start 1:0 into the tournament just for writing your decklist. I will have to run some heavy testing before I pull off that investment. 90€... Crazypants bonkotsu even went with his Chains :laugh:
Dark Rituals depend on one's meta ultimately. For safety's sake, I always include them game one. I can always feed them to Cursed Scroll or Mishra's Factory when in topdeck mode. It'd be awesome if they made a manland that was also a shade eh? :laugh: I simply side them out if my opponent isn't trying to butcher me in 3 turns or less. Dark Rituals actually make sideboarding easier, as is packing extra lands. If you find yourself having to race, I suppose packing more creature kill is the order of your day in order to make Nether Void worth it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teluin
Yeah, there are more creature-based decks than combo in my meta - thus wanting to SB Dark Rituals instead of MD'ing them. I've actually considered MD'ing 4 Paralyze, but decided to focus on card advantage/win conditions instead.Quote:
Originally Posted by OmniStrata
Whoa old school paralyze! :) You have Night of Souls' Betrayal on deck? Solid vs. creature heavy decks. I main deck one Engineered alongside NoSB myself. While we're thinking of old school, anyone consider Lethal Vapors? Ah, Volrath's Dungeon comes to mind as well. :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Teluin
Sadly I am starting to wonder if this decks playstyle is for me. I do like it and like what it can do, however I may not be the correct pilot for it. With playtesting at my LGS and going to some IQs elsewhere I havent been that satisfied with my choices or decisions. I do understand playing constantly is the only way to learn the deck and your choices, but I do have my doubts in my own ability to pilot it to the fullest. I plan on trying Fish this week just to do something new and different, but I still plan on testing with Pox to see if I can get any better.
I think the issue with Nether Void is that you could just.. win the game instead. Why not cast a Desecration Demon or Abyssal Persecutor?
You win in three turns now (at most) and the types of things that answer them are extremely limited.
Ok, little background:
I'm knowledgeable about the Legacy meta/decks/etc, but rarely played a lot of it (like... maybe 30 games total?) and I decided to build a deck I'd be able to play without a ton of issue (surprise, it's pox!) and with my success of 8-rack in modern, I figured Pox would be different for sure, but it's the closest comfort deck I could think of. So, of course, silly ol' me decided "Well, there's a tournament in Oct that's Legacy. I've got all but 3 cards for Pox... I COULD go." then I signed up. Well, now I've acquired said missing cards and I'm starting to get a tad uneasy with my deck choice (list later on), and my lack of actual Legacy experience (Likely just me overthinking). Also,I'm heading to this event comepletely 'blind' to a meta, minus 1 other persons deck (Enchantress, which I feel will be either hit or miss).
Tried a few games on cockatrice, and I've got a 12-6 record going (total wins/loses per deck: 3-1 vs show and tell, 2-0 vs reanimator, 4-0 vs RUG Delver, 2-1 vs Charbelcher, 1-2 vs miracles, 0-2 vs lands). Not sure how "good" this is, considering my playtesting group being cockatrice.
So, now to the important bit, firstly my deck list:
TheUndeadDwarf's Prison Pox list
//Main Board
2 Cursed Scroll
1 The Rack
2 Nether Spirit
1 Tombstalker
1 Nether Void
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cabal Pit
4 Mishra's Factory
12 Swamp
4 Wasteland
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Dark Ritual
1 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Innocent Blood
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Pox
4 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
//Sideboard
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Null Rod
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Necroplasm
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Oppression
2 Duress
2 Extirpate
2 Massacre
1 Spinning Darkness
1 Toxic Deluge
Now, for the second bit (more for my caring):
Is here anything that should be changed about my deck/board (I should mention I enjoy the Reid Duke sideboarding XD but, I can easily tighten it up with help! Since I don't know the meta of the event, I feel this could be a decent enough sideboard-style, whereas home-meta I'll have to adapt for.)? Any matches in general I'm gonna have to look out for (Miracles, Death and Taxes, Stax, and Lands don't seem good for me, but I've only played vs 2 of those decks). I appreciate the time taken to read/skim through this, and for anyone that 'helps' in any way: Thank you a ton!
I'll be sure to post results from the event (28th oct) and hopefully I can do Pox proud :p
Good luck in October. If you have one I would swap the maindeck Duress for a Thoughtseize.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheUndeadDwarf
Personally I do not like main deck Tombstalker (I find he dies too easily) and would therefore swap either the Crucible or Night in the Sideboard and put Tom in the board.
I never got Oppression to work, let us know how you get on with it. Alternatively you could use Bottomless Pitt?
Your sideboard looks a little weak against Dredge, and possibly Reanimator, with only 2 grave hate cards.
Swords to Plowshares, Diabolic Edict (we don't run armies of creatures), Force of Will/Counterspell, Terminate, Path to Exile, Plummet. If that's extremely limited, I'd hate to see what 'easy to kill' is defined by.Quote:
Originally Posted by tescrin
You're right about the 'kill your enemy' part. Tombstalker is without question, the strongest cheapest threat for that instead of the two 4 mana creatures you mentioned. MB Pox is slower and can't answer absolutely everything hence a fast clock is good. Some people want to dodge the Pox symmetry and having creatures that do not dodge around Innocent Blood is a bad thing for some of us. I used to run Tomby myself, but after getting in games vs. things like Omni-Tell, I'm glad I'm running Ensnaring Bridge, which in turn forces tomby out of my deck. :frown:
I miss that guy...:cry:
Hey. I love Chalice Pox. My list is B/G with Loams. Here:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
4 Sinkhole
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Smallpox
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Mox Diamond
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Life from the Loam
2 Sylvan Library
1 Syphon Soul
1 Nether Spirit
1 Toxic Deluge
4 Wasteland
4 Verdant Catacomb
4 Bayou
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cabal Pit
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Swamp
1 Forest
And the ever-changing sideboard:
4 Sphere of Resistance
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Sylvan Scrying
2 Null Rod
1 Karakas
1 Dystopia
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Engineered Plague
Chalice is really powerful against many decks, and with Mox Diamond you can shut them down on turn 1 while also fixing for colored mana. The synergy of pitching a land that can later be Loamed is great too. The downside is that you lose access to all of your one mana tools. I can honestly live without Thoughtsieze, Duress, Dark Ritual, Innocent Blood, and Cursed Scroll. Where it really hurts is in the sideboard, where you lose Surgical Extraction, Extirpate, Grafdigger's Cage, Pithing Needle, Nature's Claim, Drop of Honey, and Crop Rotation. (And Misinformation!)
The other side effect is that without the +2 from Dark Ritual, you can't reliably reach 4 mana for haymakers like Night of Soul's Betrayal or Nether Void. I keep it to 3 mana.
The Spheres are a nice extra lock piece in the board, and they mean you have a decent game vs combo, as long as you are on the play or survive turn 1. Turn 1 Sphere of Resistance has definitely saved my bacon on the play vs Oops, All Spells or Storm, and it helps vs. Elves, LED Dredge, Burn, and anything where you need to focus on mana denial as your disruption. The oddball suite of creature hate in the board is a bit of a work in progress. Dystopia and Engineered Plague are nice because they stick around, but Toxic Deluge can actually take out a Shardless BUG army of Goyfs and utility dudes. The Sylvan Scryings are an experiment. With the random Miser's Tabernacle, Pit, and Bog in the main, and the Karakas in the board, they become a 2 mana version of each of these effects. I haven't tested it yet, but I have high hopes that it will give me access to the toolbox in post board games. I can take out the Sylvan Libraries for the Scryings and just find my answer. The Null Rods turn off Vials, Equipment, MUD, and Top. Seems worth it, since I don't run Cursed Scrolls.
I'm a proponent of Chalice Pox, but I'm not going to argue that it is the better of more consistent build. I like the synergies, and I like to play Stax, which it kind of feels like sometimes. My entire collection was stolen recently, so I am without a deck at all right now, and I suspect as soon as I can afford Wastelands, I will be back in the saddle playing Mono-Black Pox, and I'll likely try out a Chalice build with Chrome Moxes instead of Mox Diamonds. When that happens, I'll keep you all posted. See you all in Jersey, where I will be borrowing this list!
On the subject of Chalice Pox: Beez is playing it for a long time now, if I'm not mistaken. Also at the Salvation there are some toying around with it as well
Yeah, I have been playing it for a while and I like it pretty well. It's not a world beater, but it is very very solid and quite fearsome.
2 Sylvan Library
4 Mox Diamond
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Liliana of the Veil
3 Living Wish
3 Life from the Loam
4 Smallpox
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Sinkhole
4 Abrupt Decay
1 The Abyss
4 Wasteland
4 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Urborg,Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Dark Depths
3 Thespian's Stage
1 Swamp
1 Forest
Side
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Krosan Grip
2 Sphere of Resistance
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Engineered Plague
1 Night of Soul's Betrayal
1 Tombstalker
1 Vampire Hexmage
1 Dark Depths
1 Thespian's Stage
Recently I replaced a Living Wish with an Abyss. Have not played that change enough to know if it is the right move yet but though a Living Wish or two can win outright, other times it is held when I could be disrupting and dont have a clear situation for a Wish target or they get discarded. But just fetching a Tombstalker can be great. Also I wish I had a Tabernacle and the fourth one would go back in.
The Abyss and Night of Soul's Betrayal are meant to help with the long term anti creature but it is correct that Mox is great for turn one Chalice or turn two Lilly, but much less so for anything costing four, so these two do get pitched to Lilly or Smallpox or Loamed a little too much.
Tomby is good against combo when you side out your Edicts mostly anyway and need to finish them off while they are disrupted before they do blue stuff to find answers to get back in the game. Hell, splashing green sometimes I wonder if I should toss in a Choke.Quote:
Originally Posted by OmniStrata
Also, #6 is the correct ability for the -2. Not even the Ultimate.