I may be switching to it, I expect a lot of aggro at the GP though, so I'll probably be playing Ugr For Goyf and Firespout, in 30-50 player tournaments, I would probably play Ubr now.
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I may be switching to it, I expect a lot of aggro at the GP though, so I'll probably be playing Ugr For Goyf and Firespout, in 30-50 player tournaments, I would probably play Ubr now.
You don't face any Enchantress during last tournament? Just thinking what we have against Enchantress? Those BEB maybe work against Words of War but thats about it. Or is our plan just mulligan to fast nought and protect it couple turns until win? That won't always happen, since there is enought threads you want to counter, example: Choke, Moat, Solitary Confinement, City of Solitude, Runed halo and maybe something else too. There maybe be option to cut couple Crucibles from side and put couple Echoing Truths on that slot?Quote:
Originally Posted by Muradin
Well, in my meta at least. Enchantress isn't that big. So beating it isn't much of a concern. As for our best answers, I'd say it depends on the splash, but for the most part. Our countermagic is going to be our best solution. Also recurring EE is another good way to deal with it. At least in the 3c version we can deal with most of those. Except Moat. Not sure what we can do about that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atog
For the Green splash Tranquility works wonders. Or for any of them. If you're really that concerned. Wash Out could be in the board.
We just have a little legacy meta, about 25 people coming, so with my luck i get paired against Enchantress even there is one or two coming :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Griever9977
The green splash is best against enchantress. Enchantress has been a concern in my meta and Reverent Silence/Tranquility is a beating. (Just make sure to counter Replenish)
Hadn't thought of Silence. That one's super good. Especially since the life gain isn't too much of a concern with a 12/12 trampling beater pounding face.Quote:
Originally Posted by whienot
I have some trouble against aggro-loam. Once a threat hits the table (and they have plenty) it can be over quickly.
I am considering making modifications to my deck. Right now I am running the standard U/R deck, red for sideboard. I could go U/R/W for swords to plowshares and it would be nice to hit 3 with engineered explosives but then I am more susceptible to non-basic land hate.
Any suggestions?
Hmmm,Quote:
Originally Posted by raptorcardz
Well Hydroblast kills Countryside Crusher and Relic kills Terravore. Spell Snare and EE can deal with Tarmogoyf and Dark Confidant. Plus they don't have many outs to your Dreadnoughts. So my advice is try and practice it a bit more, the match up shouldn't be too bad.
With that said, I present you with some links:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ght=dreadstill
This is Roodmistah's Source tourney report (Ur version), which includes a match against Aggro loam and his sideboarding plan against it.
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ght=dreadstill
This is Klaus's 3 color list and tourney report. He has a match against Aggro Loam, too.
With an older version of Dreastill running just UR (or Urw), running a Relic of Progenitus or several to fetch with Trinket Mage seems really good.
Great against: Thresh, Aggro Loam
Good against: Survival, Ichorid, Stax and Landstill, (randomness: 43 Land, Cephalid Breakfast, Reanimator)
Cantrip against: Merfolk, Slivers, randomness (burn, Elves!, etc), Painter, the rest of the format
True, 2 colorless is a poor cantrip. But winning matchups that you have no business winning is awesome. If you run Trinket Mage, I'd run at least one Relic main.
Does anyone have a good 4 color list? I can't seem to find the one that I've heard some people talking about
Does anyone have enough experience with Propaganda to rule one way or another if this card is good enough in the SB?
Basically, I want to play UG Dreadstill without the Red splash. I don't feel like I need REBs to beat Landstill anymore, but I don't want to lose to Aggro swarms. Also, Propaganda is cool because you don't need non-basics to play it, making it much easier to get on the table vs. enemy Wastelands and Ports.
So here is what I am playtesting-
6 Fetch
5 Island
3 Trop
4 Factory
3 Waste
4 Goyf
3 Nought
2 T. M.
4 FoW
3 Daze
3 Snare
4 Stifle
1 T. B.
3 CB
2 Top
1 EE
1 Crucible (Loam?)
SB
3 Submerge
3 Propaganda
3 Krosan Grip
2 Hydroblast
2 Pithing Needle
2 Relic
I'm also having a crisis on whether Life from the Loam or Crucible of Worlds is better. Crucible is obviously better if it resolves and is a delightful 3cmc for your Counterbalance -but- Loam will resolve against Landstill and has some synergy with Brainstorm and Top. Submerge may end up as 2 Echoing Truths and something else. Maybe EE or Hydroblast or something.
Edit- I'm leaning towards Loam because it is easier to resolve against Landstill without REBs.
Lftl is kinda more mana intensive, but isn't destroyed by Krosan grip, which will be Sided against you for sure.
Luis Scott-Vargas has posted a build of UW-Dreadstill (in his SCG premium column) that I find interesting. I apologize in advance if this build has been known for a while. Remark: There's no SB but he did make some interesting SB suggestions, like Wrath of God (agains Merflok, swarm-aggro).
Maindeck:
Artifacts
1 Crucible Of Worlds
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Sensei's Divining Top
Artifact Creatures
2 Phyrexian Dreadnought
Creatures
3 Trinket Mage
Enchantments
3 Counterbalance
4 Standstill
Instants
4 Brainstorm
3 Daze
4 Force Of Will
3 Spell Snare
4 Stifle
4 Swords To Plowshares
Basic Lands
5 Island
1 Plains
Lands
4 Flooded Strand
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Polluted Delta
3 Tundra
3 Wasteland
This version is a good new idea, although i wonder about the kills you have in this version. Just two dreadnoughts (your mainkill) remain. Besides that, you have the four factories. But in a meta that is really quick and aggressive (which i expect at the GP) your 4 factories won't do a single thing against a tombstalker/goyf/countryside crusher). Futhermore, the deck has only four stifle-effect cards. I think playing another trickbind is a good improvement for this deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by aTn
Besides,
I still don't like the single crucible of worlds in this deck. I know it's being played a lot recently, but i don't think it's all that strong. It's a brilliant card, only you don't have any way of finding it via a Trinket Mage. For the sideboard, playing Wrath of God. You will have top find two Tundra's+two extra lands to play it. I think merfolk, goblins and elves (it is played over here) move to quickly for a WOG.
The splash for STP and the third Top is good, a really good extension. But i still prefer a red version.
My deck as i'm playing it:
(Mana-Base-->21)
4x Wasteland
5x Island
2x volcanic Island
4x Mishra's Factory
3x Flooded Strand
3x Polluted Delta
(Creatures-->7)
4x Dreadnought
3x trinket Mage
(Rest--->32)
4x Daze
4x stifle
4x Counterbalance
1x trickbind
2x sensei divining top
3x Spell Snare
4x brainstorm
4x force of will
4x standstill
1x EE
1x Pithning Needle (really in doubt about this one!!).
Sideboard as current)
2 magus of the moon
3 REB
1 firesprout
2 pyroclasm
2 echoing truth
2x tormod's crypt
2x BED
1x EE
What do you guy's think. What card could i play instead of the needle? A third top or a second EE or something else?
Greetings,
Marco
Landstill often plays one single Crucible with no way to find it as well. Running one-offs is by no means a bad idea, if that number provides it best at the times you need it. Crucible is only good when entering the late game. The card also sucks major ass in multiples. Running it as a one-off is most certainly a good idea, as it will randomly win you games against basic-heavy decks.
I like the White splash build. It's build a bit more defensive than most Dreadstill versions we know, which is probably the reason for the 2-off Dreadnought. Still, it does seem pretty counter-intuitive, because what really kills this deck is trading a Dreadnought with a single removal spell. If you only play 2, it seems to me you want to see them later, and not in the opening hand. Playing fast Dreadnoughts is really where the card shines. I'd at least take one Top out of that list for a Dreadnought.
Bringing up a card not mentioned much lately in mostly a Ur build
Meekstone
I thought about it after the printing of Progenitus and it seems very solid as a maindecked target. It not only stops him, but also can stop Goyf, and Tombstalker. Trinket Mage-->Meekstone kinda owns Tombstalker which is something that the deck does need answers to. Also the fact it hurts Progenitus is a huge plus.
Also stops
-Vore
-Crusher
-Random 3/3s? Tribe
I would think that at this point, a deck that runs Tops, Stifles, Dazes, Dreadnoughts, Counterbalances, and Forces shouldn't even bothering testing against the Natural Order combo because it shouldn't ever resolve, and if it does, it's because you don't care at that point.
Granted, I'm sure not going to object to running 1 Meekstone somewhere because of Trinket Mage (and because it really hurts so many other cards in this format), but honestly, I'm still far more worried about Tombstalkers, opposing Goyfs, opposing Counterbalances, Lord of Atlantis, and Landstill's opposing Factories and Wastelands than I am worried about Natural Order.
Granted, but with LoD it does stop any 3 power creatures from hitting you anymore. It also sometimes stops Goyf and always stops Tombstalker. You won't be any worse off against CB/Landstill matchups than if you maindecked one.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRock
-EDIT: For all the people who think it'll hurt Dreadnought. Attack, play another one-profit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roodmistah
im confused, doesn't meekstone stop your dreadnought from untapping too..
only thing you get out of this is manlands... but if they got a goyf, your manlands are not going to get in there. so youre causing a stalemate with it only when its convenient then?
seems really awkward + situational in my opinion.
wouldnt it be better to just run 1 chain of vapor/echoing truth or something if you care about tombstalker/goyf being out of the picture for a while?
Nope it won't really stop you from attacking with Dreadnought. You swing, then Trinket up another or just play a second Dreadnought to untap him.Quote:
Originally Posted by sauce
I really like the Meakstone idea. But, Wakethrasher will still own you in the Merfolk matchup. Allbeit, that's only one creature, but wakethrasher is what beat me in that matchup when I was still running the Ubw version.
For the red splashes, this makes fire/ice even better.
What else did he suggest for sideboard options for that uw-version?Quote:
Originally Posted by aTn
blasts
o-ring
relic/crypt
EE
needle
wrath
threads/sower
Grand-Prix Chicago Trial in Tarentum
I got 3rd place playing dreadstill and my buddy took 1st!
Sorry to jump in on your thread guys but I am looking for a partner to test with. I am trying to tune Stax so I don't suck so bad against Dreadstill. I need to play a competent opponent so I can test some modifications. Let me know if you can help test! Thanks!
Congratz on your finish.
Would it be too much trouble to provide a little tournament report?
I am especially interested in splash and sideboard choices.
-Where you satisfied with the red splash?
-You run a pretty basic sideboard, no need for Blood Moon or Crucible?
-How did you like the 2 Cryp, 1 Relic graveyard hate package? I am considering to roll with 3 Relics, because they are useful in other matchups too. I can imagine that Cryp was good, because they were two Ichorid in the top8.
The second place deck looks interesting, the sideboard looks a little weired though. Is it discussed somewhere on these boards?
Thank you. I don't have the time for a tournament report but I can list several notes for the decks I played.Quote:
Originally Posted by deadlock
First of all, I have not tried blood moon or crucible, I don't see them as necessary because a lot of decks I have trouble with run a lot of basics where recurring wasteland is near useless and many of these decks are mostly red or run blood moon themselves. Perhaps blood moon would have been useful against Edward F Pfender, the 2nd place finish because they got out counter-top against me both matches and the game was over right away.
I played against Vince Ruffalo's deck first but beat it pretty easily as he couldn't do much against my dreadnought and counters. I think he was manascrewed as well but I can't remember.
1-0-0
The second match was against my friend David A Rizwan who got 5th. Ichorid isn't a problem usually, but game one can go either way. He did win game one but game two was easily mine. Game three we went to time (because he has to shuffle a lot) and we draw. I find that with tormod's crypt and relic of progenitus his pithing needle isn't going to stop me. We also have engineered explosive at 0 and perhaps even echoing truth or our own pithing needle naming Putred Imp. A lot of SB cards available against ichorid mean that you either win or draw in my experience.
1-0-1
Match three was against Scott Carnahan and his zoo deck. It was either game one or two that I got a dreadnought out quickly and it was over but the other games his vexing shusher didn't allow me to counter anything and gaddock teeg said no to engineered explosives. I never saw my pyroclasms and he won.
1-1-1
Match four was against my friend Gordon Davis. As most people, we I.De'ed because the result didn't matter. We were going to top 8 either way.
1-1-2
Match five was against Scott Carnahan again. It was a close match even though I had good draws and the right cards when I needed them. Blue elemental blast killed his vexing shusher and I spell snare'd his tarmogoyf. I think we play three games but I come out with the win.
2-1-2
Match six was against 2nd place finisher Edward F Pfender. Game one took quite a long time because neither of us got any threats out. (Where are you mishra's factory?) He eventually gets counter-top out and I can't do anything. Many turns later he plays Tombstalker and the game is over.
Game two he quickly gets out counter-top and I scoop a few turns later.
2-2-2 final, horrible finish but third place is third place. With guaranteed top eight, many people IDed and some had draws due to time, this is why I got third I think.
Congratulations to my friend Gordon for getting first. He didn't want to go originally but decided to call off work. I won 9 boosters which I was happy to get something back. Also props to Ed for making his deck custom. Seems to be a hellspawn of Team America with counter-top with a landstill shell.
Not much of a report but you asked for anything, so you got something. Enjoy.
Hey thanks for the answer.
Concerning scoop to CB, was Engineered Explosvies not available to answer it?
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...t=8158&page=52
Thanks to jazzy...this seems like it could be one of our strongest answers to K-grip postboard.
Here's an updated list
// Lands
3 [ON] Polluted Delta
3 [ON] Flooded Strand
4 [4E] Mishra's Factory
3 [REW] Wasteland
6 [ARE] Island (8)
2 [U] Volcanic Island
// Creatures
4 [MI] Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 [FD] Trinket Mage
// Spells
4 [SC] Stifle
3 [CS] Counterbalance
2 [TSP] Trickbind
4 [NE] Daze
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [FNM] Brainstorm
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [OD] Standstill
2 [FD] Engineered Explosives
3 [DIS] Spell Snare
// Sideboard
SB: 2 [DS] Echoing Truth
SB: 1 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 2 [R] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 1 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 3 [R] Red Elemental Blast
SB: 4 [BOK] Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
Now, obviously this isn't fully optimal most likely but we're onto the right track here I think with boarding in 4x Kira. It also makes you pretty much immune to StP as well/Smother, etc etc. Reason they're in the sideboard is because most people don't maindeck K-grip.
Also let me note that if they waste 2 removal spells on Dreadnought 8/10 times Kira will most likely get there because they'll be out of gas.
If Kira works, shouldn't Alexi's Cloak work better? Or Diplomatic Immunity? Maybe not, but it's something to think about.
Kira has been used by Philip Stirm in his old Ub Masknought.dec as a SB tech against removal for almost 3 years now. So it's actually not that amazing tech, is it?
Enchanments happen to be pretty bad, as they open up the deck for 2:1's. In addition, Kira isn't dead without a 'nought, while Cloak will sit in your hand for aeons.
See thing is, Kira is a beatstick too which is why it's so good to support Dreadnought. If they remove Dreadnought with 2 removal spells that means that Kira/manlands will most likely wreak havok on them. Also, Cloak is dead in hand more or less without Dreadnought. Diplomatic they just remove DN in response. Kira's effect is constant.Quote:
Originally Posted by matelml
@Shim: Savage I never tried him before =P.
Nah, I was tired and a little demoralized from the first game so I just ended it. I'm sure he had enough FoW to counter it anyways.Quote:
Originally Posted by deadlock
Regarding Kira, your going to bring it in against decks that have a lot of removal could you be a bit more specific about the MUs that includes?
Well, where are the SB Pyroclasms Rood?
I think they're too good not to play.
@Kira-
You can Stifle Dreadnought after Kira is down right? I think so because you are targeting the ability not the creature.
If you can't this sucks because they will K-Grip your Nought in response to you playing Kira.
If you can, this is awesome. You could also activate Mishra's Factory in response to Wasteland to save it. Tech!
Edit- Also, @Rood, how do you envision SBing? It seems like Kira, Counterbalance and Standstill seem to be competing for the same space. You also don't really want to board out your Dreadnoughts too much against removal heavy decks. -1 Nought, -1 T-Bind, -1 Daze, -1 Standstill, maybe? Then -2 Daze for 2 REBs for Thresh/Landstill?
You are targeting the ability, right. As far as Wasteland and Factory go, however, it won't work. Once they activate Wasteland, if you make it a creature, it is too late for the Kira ability to trigger, as the Mishra has already been targeted. At least I believe that is how it goes.Quote:
Originally Posted by BKclassic
Oh yeah, that probably true. :frown:Quote:
Originally Posted by scrow213
This is a good question because wasteland uses the stack as well...however when it's on the stack it already has a target. I think you are correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by scrow213
It does happen to stop StP #1 aimed at the factory.
BTW I am testing a UR 3/4 Top/CB with Kira's MD and no spell snares and it is hillarious. CB/Top with plenty of CMC 3's is awesome as the curve is increasing to 3 for CB evasion. Kira is rather amusing as they need 2 removal targeted removal spells/effects in a turn only 1 of which you have to stop.
Kira, due to flying, also gets in for way more than her fair share of points.
So, as a Mefolk player, and not having gotten much opportunity to test against Dreadstill (no one seems to play it on MWS... :frown: ), I was wondering how y'all would describe the matchup?
Does it basically just come down to who has more early game counters/ better Standstill positioning?
Also, if anyone wants to test on MWS, PM me.
Thanx.