Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Cook
Got it on empty.
Library is a must counter for grind games. If it isn't countered, the card advantage is likely to be too much
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Cook
Got it on empty.
Library is a must counter for grind games. If it isn't countered, the card advantage is likely to be too much
Erm ... unless you pay a Minimum of 8 life, Library does not create cardadvantage. If you look for a card-quality tool, there is SDT; if you look for a cardadvantage tool, there is Dark Confidant, but both cards are slow & durdly, ergo not fitting for a deck which needs to win fastQuote:
Originally Posted by G_g
Do we care about the 8 life loss against control? Top requires mana every turn, that was more my concern. I would use the library to manipulate my draw, and if needed draw the extra card. I was thinking about it more like a Mirri's Guile with upside. With enough shuffle effects, it would avoid us drawing unwanted stuff, costing nothing to do so
The card is real bad here. If I wanted that effect I'd play Dark Confidant which I also think has the same problem as Library of being too slow.
I know what Library does. It's just that it's not fitting (too slow) and not needed (we already run blue Library Manipulation). Libraries upside is to draw cards if your lifepoints don't matter much. Not caring about 8 means not caring about Ad Nauseam against control and planing to slow down the game in the face of CounterTop, Clique, Flusterstorm, Jace, etc.?Quote:
Originally Posted by G_g
Treasure cruise fits this deck as it is on the wish board, and it will not always be good. There will be some matches against some grindy decks where it won't be useful at all, and some matches it will be bananas (usually if you have spare BW). So the fact that you can only tutor it from the sideboard is a big upside here, as it wouldn't be a dead card against fast hands and could also be tutorable in slow games with BW. This deck can't handle dead draws against hard matches.
About the decks, doomsday seems kinda slow for the atual meta, and even though TES is very fast it doesn't seem as resilient as ANT. I've started playing TES since 2 months ago and I've been following this thread since then, so please correct me if I'm saying garbage.
"Resilient" needs to be set in context. If we talk about the ability to make up for "lost cards" for the combo (aka cards your opponent discarded from your hand or discard spells you have to spend to slice through defense), ANT has the edge with the raw power of Cabal Ritual. Normally it also profits from a stable manabase compared to TES in face of Dazes and Wastelands thanks to Basics and more lands overall, but this isn't a selling point in the current meta. On the other side however, you suffer from being slower which is iffy against other combo decks, Counterbalance and hatebears so you have to plan for the longer run and occasonally play the "control role" and suffer from a high dependency on your graveyard for Cabal Rituals and Past in Flames, forcing you to fight over graveyard hate unlike TES. My personal work on this deck aims at creating a "resiliency through redundancy". 8 Tutors, 8 real cantrips (I don't consider Probe a cantrip rather than disruption), 10 (actual and virtual) discard spells, 8 +2 mana sources, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThiefSlayer
Unrelated question: Is it just me or are Reanimator, SneakShow and OmniTell on the rise again?
They are bro, they are...
An elfs is going down.
At times I struggle to keep up with all the data, so I'm thankful for every flagwaving concerning metagame shifts. Looks like combo in general is indeed gaining steam as options to overpower the greedy & defenseless Treasure Cruise circlejerk. Maybe you want to aid me keeping an eye on that development for the next 4-6 weeks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Togores
I'm traveling to Philly this weekend to jam some storm cards in the first SCG 15 round Legacy event. Should be fun!
Enjoy your trip! Some last minute board changes floating in your head?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Cook
I actually really like my current SB of:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Xantid Swarm
2 Pyroblast
2 Pyroclasm
1 Massacre
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Past in Flames
1 Treasure Cruise
The only thing I'm questioning is if Pyroclasm number two is actually better than a Grapeshot. The reason being, let's say we bring in two 'Clasms and two Blasts against UWr for their Meddling Mages. Except, instead they have Surgicals and nail one of our Wishes. Pyroclasm isn't a win-condition where Grapeshot is, is this ridiculous? Absolutely. But are there any real downsides of playing the Grapeshot over the second Pyroclasm? Not being able to kill Cannonist & Thalia if they're both in play? Both are corner cases. But these are the sort of things I think about...
How do you plan to loop 20 spells for a Grapeshot kill if your opponent removed your only way to grab PIF? Elves, Pyromancer and every combination of creatures with a combined toughness of 4 or more (on top of Cannonist and jumping though hoops for Thalia), make Grapeshot an uneconomic sweeper in terms of investment and commitment. I guess we can ignore the random blowout of seeing Wish discarded/countered and extracted as we do Leyline of Sanctity these days.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Cook
If combo and Miracles are on the rise in the US, I would think about the SB Cruise and it's value compared to being a Discard spell
Even in combo heavy metagames, I never found myself wishing for the sideboard discard spell. I think it's a wasted slot and I would prefer Cruise in the Miracles match-up due to it's casting cost.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
You've never played 20 spells after resolving Ad Nauseam? I certainly have, it's very easy.
It's not easy to do if you have to calculate with a certain lifeloss or mediocre flips. For me it's a cornercase I'm not incorporating with all the problems Grapeshot suffers if the scenario with Surgical does not come up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Cook
Against Miracles we side out an Infernal anyways, so the Value of the SB TC is minimal in Games 2 and 3. Mind, that I cutted the TC myself for that exact reason. In game 1 you can't afford to go for turn 3+ anyways aka the timeframe TC is castable. TC shines against Discard (which vanished with BUG thanks to Cruise) and defensive matchups. Against the later, I strictly prefer the turn 2 Wish for clearing the path for the turn 3 combo (which funnily is the critical turn for Sol lands to start shining - hidden promotion lol).
I'm not really interested in a turn three deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
The way I've been using cruise is a draw 3 for 1RU when my discard has left them defenseless and my hand still needs some has. Against Miracles if they have a CB on 1, Wish for Cruise will resolve getting you closer to your Abrupt Decays.
I fear, going to turn three and beyond is inevitable against defensive opponents otherwise I wouldn't bother myself with the SB Discars either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Cook
One simple question in regards to miracles: why would they even allow you to resolve Wish in the first place if you can get Infernal, PIF, EtW or whatever they might fear to play around their counterbalance or grab/recycle Decay?
We run plenty of Discard for their countermagic, paired with a Counterbalance at one (As I mentioned) – Wish for Cruise is a very realistic situation to help dig deeper for Decays.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
And instead the SB grapeshot sideboarding a second tendrills? you can board it int vs burn or vs decks with surgical or meddling mage. Also agaianst ur or any gitaxian and pyromancer deck having the natural storm is quite easy and surprisefull.
In ant I side the second tendrills and vs burn or ur I win 80% of the games just natural because they are at like 14 lifes or so. Its not so good vs taxes but you have already 4 infernal into nauseam or directly nauseam and 4 wishes for empty g2 that makes 9 cards of belcher mode.
I feel that increasing the chance for the natural ToA in hand is a redundancy option in ANT, which TES may does not require thanks to the higher density of tutors from the start to either go for Goblins (especially game 1 against UR Delver) or slowroll into the natural chain which is most likely deadly if you hit 8 storm against UR Delver and their aggressive Fetches/Probes. With the 2 ToA in ANT you have a total of 6 outs to kill/stall your opponent without an engine. TES in it's current iteration has 8 ways to kill. I don't think it's that bad even if the pure use of ToA as a stalling tool is nothing I recommend to do in TES. I'm unsure if a second ToA is worth the slot given the existing redundancy and option to go for EtW instead of setting up a Grinding Station gameplan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Togores
Related topic because of Meddling Mage blocking Wish: I'm not a big fan of the MB ToA in general (without one in the side postboard), because unless you directly flip it for AN, you are required to flip IT + LED instead to have access which is a pain in the ass if you used 1-2 LEDs to cast Infernal (aka only 3 left in the deck) into Ad Nauseam in the first place. This is the reason ANT is such a mediocre Ad Nauseam deck if you ask me. If you keep ToA in the side, you can fetch it with 6 random mana and a Wish in addition to the IT + LED scenario and I rather run options to deal with a Meddling Mage than limiting the outs I have to either setup a successful Ad Nauseam combo or a natural chain.
These days I'm pretty used to work with the natural chain thanks to people burning through their Gitaxian Probes and dealing fast damage. Playing "land, cantrip, go" for 2 turns and blow them out with a natural chain is just too easy to execute for TES. I had a good laughter in last weeks testing during a game in the draw which started with double Probe on both sides of the table; my opponent finished his/her turn with Delver, I did with a natural chain ToA xD