I think you broke it.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbone2016
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I think you broke it.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbone2016
Seconded!Quote:
Originally Posted by Brael
I'm going to have another crack at Natural Order Fit, since we can support GSZ -> Fierce Empath -> Hooting Mandrills. Just add in some hard to kill creatures and we've got 8 Natural Orders. Craterhoof Behemoth anyone? All you need is 4 creatures for the win. Fuck Elves!
@cavalry: Glissa is probably SB at best. D&T has StP & Karakas, they get rid of her a lot more easily than Eldrazi does. Vs. Infect she might be a thing (unless they go for one of their unblockable or flying attackers). I've tried her in the MB, she wasn't that great.
For Eldritch evolution, in a RG<> build (NicFitDrazi) this card seems nice:
T1: forest
T2: Eldrazi temple > go to matter reshaper
T3: forest; elritch evolution > trigger reshaper then go for smasher/thragcorne or even better: sigarda. Versus a storm deck go for TKS.
And of course, we still have a supplemental fuel for veteran if we don't draw cabal or phyrexian tower.
In late game, we can evolution a thragcorne (or TKS if we don't mind the draw) for a primeval as well.
The problem is the same as NO, it's a bad top deck if you don't have a board...
Oh come on people, we don't want to waste Eldrazi Evolution on a Veteran Explorer. It's a go big or go home card. You either use it to break your opponents back or you don't use it at all.
Simply put:
- Veteran Explorer into 3 drop -> Bad. The timing of it sucks (happens T3 at best and T4 if you need to get through Daze) and it doesn't win you the game.
- 3/4 drop into something gamebreaking -> Good.
It's the best chance we get at having an "I win"-button (and we all know how much this deck needs that). The Danger Of Cool Stuff? Possibly, but that's how I like to role.
Edit: Vs. Miracles you could use Evolution + Rector to get Heliod, God of the Sun and Death Pit Offering to keep your devotion down and poop out a 4/3 token every turn. The Offering kills of all creatures you have after which Heliod enters the battlefield, free of devotion and hence untouchable by Jace, Karakas, StP and Terminus and can't even be killed by Clique/Snapcaster like our planeswalkers can.
I am not completely agree. It's depend of your hand. With this deck, sometime we always have problem to trigger a veteran. If you have 3 lands and a veteran on the board and an evolution and a titan in hand, I am sure that I will trigger evolution to veteran to be able to cast a primeval for the win the next turn...Quote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
But of course, I a am completely agree with you, an evolution on a 3/4 drop would be better cause it would probably be a trigger for the win.
Now we have to test this card and know how much we want it in our build and the good number...
My point was that it shouldn't be something we actively aim for :wink:. If it's something you must do to survive, sure, go for it. Just don't plan on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by benoasan
I do think that the card is very interesting for GBr or even classic GB builds since it can get those non-green beaters that show up far too rarely.
I talk about stuff like Grave Titan and Stormbreath Dragon of course. They always were great but not GSZ-able.
Generally the card allows us to put the creatures on the curve - avoiding top-heavy decks that sometimes struggle to play a single creature if the Explorer gets countered.
@emuhell: Make that BGx. I can image BUG Fit'd like to tutor up their big bombs (say Consecrated Sphinx) too.
it might have some potential in the sfm build as well.
tutoring for sfm by sacing an explorer and play the equipment right away sounds pretty good.
@Echelon Yeah, go big or go home! So I'm thinking we completely drop this Abzan crap for RUG, and we play a Donate deck that gives our opponents Eldrazi Processors so we can recycle our Evolutions. Heck, WoTC is even printing a red Donate in Eldritch Moon! THIS CANNOT POSSIBLY FAIL!!!
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
We're talking turn 3/4 here and not accounting for any bad shit that can happen before and during doing that. Is that really what you want to call potential..? You sac Explorer on T3, maybe get your Explorer trigger Stifled, get a SFM and try to cast your equipment just to get it Dazed.Quote:
Originally Posted by cherson
Your board is now a 1/2 vanilla that cost you 3 cards (Veteran, Evolution and that equipment that got Dazed) to get, on turn 3. Epic.
@cavalry: I'm glad you get it!
Hey guys I am back after a year here is the list I wanna get back into and get back together
Creatures-18
4-veteran explorer
1-baleful strix
1-duskwatch recruiter
1-coiling oricale
1-fierce empath
1-tireless tracker
1-eternal witness
1-venser shaper savant
1-maren
1-mystic snake
1-thragtusk
1-gatrog monster
1-frost titan
1-consphinx
1-deadeye navigator
Lands-22
3-forest
3-islands
2-swamp
1-tower
3-tropical
3-bayou
1-sea
6-fetches
Spells-21
4-therapy
3-zenith
1-intent
3-deeds
2-pulses
1-nightmare
2-Jace TMs
2-Sensei's top
3-open spots
I been brewing a couple lists now for a while a
gbw- treefolk shaman list
Gbc- colorless list that arionrhod got e interested. At a legacy tournament.
Gbu- deadeye navigator list that I created and revamping currently
A
Gbu- tezzert artifacts
And a dragons list
Should be some interesting thinking to be done on this Eldrazi Evo. I think we still need some number of GSZ in order to easily and cheapily get Veteran onto the field. Probably starts to make sense to try shaving a 4th GSZ for this thing, maybe even going down to 2 GSZ. I think 2-3 of this sac/tutor effect is a good starting point so long as the creature base is meant to support it. I really like the idea of being able to play some non-green powerful 5 and 6 drops that are tutorable.
But we really can't afford to trade off any consistency for power. We aren't blue and need all the card advantage and filtering we can get, and I don't think we can afford to run too much clunky, dependent effects. Need to find a way for this thing to increase both consistency AND power. Which I think it can do.
BUG could experiment with nearly replacing GSZ entirely since Brainstorm and other multiple draw effects are available such as Wall of Blossoms or Baleful Strix. Suddenly you have ways to tutor into Clique, Glen Elendra, Consecrated Sphinx, and Grave Titan.
Enchantments has been discussed some with Academy Rector...I still think there is an issue trying to have the old lady survive while you have the mana to cast Evo with her. But the double tutor effect is super greedy and awesome. If something can really lock down the game though, as well as work alright on its own, then it might find a home.
You spent two cards and they spent two cards...versus a board that had to go down a land drop...and if it's Delver, isn't that a good matchup anyway? I think you'd rather wait a turn to SFM in the Batterskull anyway (rather get that than Jitte), but that's a hell of a "dies to removal" scenario you had to string together there.Quote:
Your board is now a 1/2 vanilla that cost you 3 cards (Veteran, Evolution and that equipment that got Dazed) to get, on turn 3. Epic.
Hey,
I had a question regarding the SFM builds. Sorry to interrupt the Eldritch UnNatural Order conversation.
So I picked up 4 SFM today because the promos were only $14 each for some reason, as well as a batterskull and jitte to go with them. However, I haven't been paying attention to the SFM builds that y'all have been posting because I was too focused on my rhinos (silly me). Anywho, I played some games against modern melira company today (Nearly unwinnable matchup, BTW) and I realized that I both have no idea how to use Jitte or what the deck should actually look like. Would anyone be so kind as to post up one or a couple SFM builds? Is Jitte / BS all you're using for equips? How about different SB options because of the different tools the deck has access to?
Thanks!
My list is mentioned in the signature. Currently no changes but I have the impression that I am losing gas in the late game. Three big shots (2xrhino, 1xsigarda) seems not enough. Further I am a bit disappointed how sfm performs, dies most of the time before I can use it, upside eats a removal. Hmm..
If you are sad because you think you're not using your SFM when she dies to removal then you don't understand what she is doing for you in this deck. Also, Rhinos do not count as big shots anymore when you are only running two of them, they mostly count when you are running the full herd that they prefer to be in (don't get me wrong, they are threats, but I wouldn't class them as big shots like Sigarda or Meren that can take over a game) You also failed to count BSK (recurrable big shot) and forgot to mention that you only play 3 Gsun. How have the planeswalkers been for you?
I'm away right now so if you'd like me to explain why I think these things, I can next week sometime.
Current list
Stoned Witnesses
(been having a lot of fun casting the same StP or the same surgical extraction 3 times against creature / combo decks :)
4 Verdant
4 Windswept
1 Scrubland
2 Bayou
2 Savanah
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Phyrexian Tower
2 Top
4 Gsun
1 D Abor
4 Vet
1 DRS
3 EWit (or 1 Ewit, 1 Tracker, 1 Truths)
1 Meren / Thrun
1 Sigarda
1 Tusk
3 SFM
1 Jitte
1 SoFaI
1 BSK
4 Therapy
2 TS
9-10 Removal spells, mix as you like.
4 Stp
3 Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Deed
SB
2 Needle
3 Surgical Ext
2 TS
2 Spirit of Labia
1 Teeg
1 Rec Sage
2 E-Plague
2 Deluge
I'll second this. SFM Nic Fit really uses Stoneforge as a foil, we shouldn't be dependent upon the lass living. I'm generally happy if the opponent removes it. Just means that they have one less removal spell to deal with a more significant creature from us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jain_Mor
I'll try to post my most recent list and some reasonings this weekend, although I haven't been playing it as much since GP Columbus.
Basically revolves around a few key points:
1) SFM tutors equipment which makes all of your creatures into threats
2) Veteran ramps us into possible Significant Threats to Be Awesome when carrying equipment (primarily Sigarda)
3) Typical nic fit removal (Deed/Deluge)
Due to #1, I really like Dryad Arbor in the list. Since any little guy with a sword/jitte/bsk is awesome, I also like Meren since recursion is fast with little guys. The end goal of SFM nic fit is basically Sigarda carrying any equipment, but Batterskull is especially sweet. Decks just can't beat her. You might rarely get there though, as Deed wins games, or Arbor equipped with SoFaI, or whatever.
Knowing which equipment to grab and also how to use it should come pretty natural for DnT/Stoneblade players. Typically don't grab Batterskull if you expect SFM to die and can't hardcast it. Get Jitte against Burn since it forces the burn player to waste burn on -every- one of your creatures since they threaten lifegain and control. Grab Jitte typically against other creature decks and use it for mostly board control (keep in mind it avoids color protection like from Mom). SoFaI protects your creatures from Jace bounce, gets through TNN and Delver/Pyromancer tokens and can either just be 4 more damage or can shoot down things, so you can grab it in those situations. The extra card draw is not insignificant. Batterskull is one tool to beat Empty the Warrens if you can get SFM out in time.
Thanks Square, It's not just that it's one less removal spell in their hand, but it's also straight card advantage and it's tempo too. Against most matchups we want the game to go into the late game so we can dominate. If the opponent is spending their early game resources/time/mana killing your SFM instead of deploying things to kill you then they are playing into that game plan.
In the matchups where we lose in the late game then them using a removal spell on your two drop after you grab a threat (BSK) or card advantage pressure machine (SoFaI), so your later threats have a better chance of going all the way is the point, as Square described.