[Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

May as well. If you aren't playing blue in legacy you're doing it wrong anyway

I see some have said it was 10 years ago, so the case is different today, and that WotC woudn't do it. How exactly was Harmless Offering released in 2016 then, as it's the exact same situation 10 years later. Donate cost 2U and is on the reserved list, Harmless Offering cost 2R and has a very, very similar text.

"A card is considered functionally identical to another card if it has the same card type, subtypes, abilities, mana cost, power, and toughness." <--- the RL policy. The way I read it, these cards shoudn't exist, as they have the same mana-cost, and are functionally idenctical. Changing colors doesn't change CMC.

Also @JPoJohnson: do you mind linking me, or just referring me to what year any changes happened? I can't find anything from Wizards saying they did. Thank you in advance.

edit: Another old case was Null Profusion being another color-shifted RL card, having the same exact errata as Recycle. And there is also the curious case of Reverberate, which is more like Harmless Offering in which the text slightly changes.

tl:dr=color-shifted Moat when?

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Originally Posted by Kanti

I see some have said it was 10 years ago, so the case is different today, and that WotC woudn't do it. How exactly was Harmless Offering released in 2016 then, as it's the exact same situation 10 years later. Donate cost 2U and is on the reserved list, Harmless Offering cost 2R and has a very, very similar text.

"A card is considered functionally identical to another card if it has the same card type, subtypes, abilities, mana cost, power, and toughness." <--- the RL policy. The way I read it, these cards shoudn't exist, as they have the same mana-cost, and are functionally idenctical. Changing colors doesn't change CMC.

Also @JPoJohnson: do you mind linking me, or just referring me to what year any changes happened? I can't find anything from Wizards saying they did. Thank you in advance.

edit: Another old case was Null Profusion being another color-shifted RL card, having the same exact errata as Recycle. And there is also the curious case of Reverberate, which is more like Harmless Offering in which the text slightly changes.

tl:dr=color-shifted Moat when?

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Reverberate had a pretty big shitstorm around it when it got spoiled. How about Twincast? Did that have a big uproar around it? As far as I can think that might be the earliest color shifted "reprint"?

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Originally Posted by Kanti

I see some have said it was 10 years ago, so the case is different today, and that WotC woudn't do it. How exactly was Harmless Offering released in 2016 then, as it's the exact same situation 10 years later. Donate cost 2U and is on the reserved list, Harmless Offering cost 2R and has a very, very similar text.

"A card is considered functionally identical to another card if it has the same card type, subtypes, abilities, mana cost, power, and toughness." <--- the RL policy. The way I read it, these cards shoudn't exist, as they have the same mana-cost, and are functionally idenctical. Changing colors doesn't change CMC.

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It's true changing colors doesn't change CMC. But it doesn't say "converted mana cost." It says "mana cost." 2R is a different mana cost than 2U.

If you swap out Fork for Reverberate, 99.999999% of the time it will be functionally identical. That is not the case for Donate and Harmless Offering; it'll make a pretty big difference if you have Blue mana but no Red mana (or vice versa).

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Originally Posted by Megadeus

Reverberate had a pretty big shitstorm around it when it got spoiled. How about Twincast? Did that have a big uproar around it? As far as I can think that might be the earliest color shifted "reprint"?

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I don't remember anyone really caring about Twincast, but then again I don't remember much of a hubbub for Reverberate either.

Donate is an incredibly fringe card that is nominally pretty bad, hard to get outraged over harmless offering.

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Originally Posted by Lord_Mcdonalds

Donate is an incredibly fringe card that is nominally pretty bad, hard to get outraged over harmless offering.

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So basically it's a crap card that sucks, and thus has little demand, and a low price. But if a card has high demand, and a high price, then the RList starts to matter?

At what dollar amount do people get outraged? RList is created to protect collectors, but I guess it doesn't matter when if they color-shift >$50 cards?

@LordSeth: You are right on the mana-cost, but it obviously seems pretty crazy. This means by nature they can't reprint any lands or artifact on the RList? Who thought of this?

Anyone protecting the reserve list is a moron on drugs at this point or simply has no idea how the market actually works

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Originally Posted by Kanti

So basically it's a crap card that sucks, and thus has little demand, and a low price. But if a card has high demand, and a high price, then the RList starts to matter?

At what dollar amount do people get outraged? RList is created to protect collectors, but I guess it doesn't matter when if they color-shift >$50 cards?

@LordSeth: You are right on the mana-cost, but it obviously seems pretty crazy. This means by nature they can't reprint any lands or artifact on the RList? Who thought of this?

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So are you okay with Stony Silence being a card?

Any clue why Thoughtseize (Lorwyn especially) is rising these days?

Because it's pretty :wink:

at least when compared to the Theros one

Been a few years since it was reprinted and Grixis death shadow is pretty good in modern (if I had to guess)

And I agree, it is very pretty.

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Originally Posted by jattra

Any clue why Thoughtseize (Lorwyn especially) is rising these days?

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I think Modern Death's Shadow has a lot to do with it. Not sure why Lorwyn specifically, though.

Both printings have been on a natural rise, but Lorwyn's spiked hard this week despite not looking like an actual buyout (or was just a failed one).

http://sales.starcitygames.com/cardd...?product=13119

That's a pretty decent price for an unlimited USea, right? :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Dice_Box

http://sales.starcitygames.com/cardd...?product=13119

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Is SCG jacking up the prices again? This doesn't make sense:

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Re...ound+Sea#paper

lol, they're trying to spike revised duals to 500? I wonder if they forgot about the price ceiling provided by unlimited, FBB, Beta, and Alpha... Seems like they're putting a lot of faith in vintage if you think all these Sea prices are going to upshift vs the fairly stable price of power. There isn't exactly a booming market for people looking for ~$3k beta Seas (they list them at 5k), particularly b/c your getting into low-end Lotus pricing...

I'd like to know how the meeting went down on this decision. Nevermind that Volc is performing better than USea right now, it seems a bit ambitious to spike Sea $100 over Volc given that Sea casts Death's Shadow (easiest blue dual to replace with shock-land).

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Originally Posted by Fox

lol, they're trying to spike revised duals to 500? I wonder if they forgot about the price ceiling provided by unlimited, FBB, Beta, and Alpha... Seems like they're putting a lot of faith in vintage if you think all these Sea prices are going to upshift vs the fairly stable price of power. There isn't exactly a booming market for people looking for ~$3k beta Seas (they list them at 5k), particularly b/c your getting into low-end Lotus pricing...

I'd like to know how the meeting went down on this decision. Nevermind that Volc is performing better than USea right now, it seems a bit ambitious to spike Sea $100 over Volc given that Sea casts Death's Shadow (easiest blue dual to replace with shock-land).

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Revised duals cannot be compared with power...
1,100 Alpha sets
3,200 Beta sets
18,500 Unlimited sets
289,000 Revised sets
So they printed ~300000 seas vs ~22000 sapphires.
Yes, you can play 4 seas and only 1 sapphire, but even with this..

I don't think they are really trying to spike the price of all duals, but just the NM/M ones.
Also... who plays Death's Shadow in Legacy/Vintage?

All this is going to do is push the market more towards Chinese duals. Supposedly they're printing black ink layers now too. I took a look and it seems the only real limitation will be getting blue core paper, but good luck testing for that outside of a microscope-style loupe.

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Originally Posted by guillemnicolau

Revised duals cannot be compared with power...
1,100 Alpha sets
3,200 Beta sets
18,500 Unlimited sets
289,000 Revised sets
So they printed ~300000 seas vs ~22000 sapphires.
Yes, you can play 4 seas and only 1 sapphire, but even with this..

I don't think they are really trying to spike the price of all duals, but just the NM/M ones.
Also... who plays Death's Shadow in Legacy/Vintage?

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What I'm saying is if I go to a vendor at a GP or EW and I see beta Sea at SCG's $5k sitting next to a $3k unlimited Lotus or beta Recall, I'm not going to buy the Sea (assuming I'm there to spend such a high amount). If you push revised Sea to $500, then FBB and unlimited Seas start costing as much as an unlimited Mox...so congrats on raising the price of revised Sea on the back of a top end that is kind of fictitious if power stays about where it is price-wise. They can be compared, because they're sitting right next to eachother in the same case wherever you go to buy cards.

I mean there's some Shadow going on in legacy, but the point is more that Volc is performing better than Sea right now and SCG lists it at $100 less, and you can't really come up with a reason to run Steam Vents over Volc while the same is not true with Sea.

This was brought to my attention and is likely the reason for the hike:

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles...lds-2017-07-19

Legacy in the PT.