[Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

I was tunning my Nic Fit up. Here's the result.

Lands [21]
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Marsh Flats
1 Windswept Heath
1 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
5 Forest
3 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Dryad Arbor

Creatures [23]
4 Veteran Explorer
3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Strangleroot Geist
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Bone Shredder
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Wickerbough Elder
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Restoration Angel
1 Shriekmaw
1 Acidic Slime
1 Thragtusk
1 Grave Titan


Spells [17]
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Birthing Pod
1 Recurring Nightmare
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Abrupt Decay

I like the cmc 3 - 4 - 5 against artifacts. I like dryad arbor since you can fetch for it and go for a DRS with pod and start a chain. You can play turn 2 POD on the draw... etc...

With all that artifact hate, may be it would be good agaisnt TNN decks

Davids list is pretty close to my own. I'm not a fan of not having the Fleshbag Maurader in the board though. I'm still glad I'm not the only one who thinks Aetherling is a great 6 drop in this deck

If nothin else, this gives me slim hope for Nashville next month

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Originally Posted by KntrellCL

I was tunning my Nic Fit up. Here's the result.

Lands [21]
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Marsh Flats
1 Windswept Heath
1 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
5 Forest
3 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Dryad Arbor

Creatures [23]
4 Veteran Explorer
3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Strangleroot Geist
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Bone Shredder
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Wickerbough Elder
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Restoration Angel
1 Shriekmaw
1 Acidic Slime
1 Thragtusk
1 Grave Titan


Spells [17]
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Birthing Pod
1 Recurring Nightmare
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Abrupt Decay

I like the cmc 3 - 4 - 5 against artifacts. I like dryad arbor since you can fetch for it and go for a DRS with pod and start a chain. You can play turn 2 POD on the draw... etc...

With all that artifact hate, may be it would be good agaisnt TNN decks

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Wow your list is very similar to mine. I would suggest wall of blossoms over strangleroot geist and an academy rector over the second restoration angel :) A 4th copy of pod is necessary I think.

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Originally Posted by Blastoderm

Wow your list is very similar to mine. I would suggest wall of blossoms over strangleroot geist and an academy rector over the second restoration angel :) A 4th copy of pod is necessary I think.

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I used to have Wall of Blossoms, but I just found as a poor card (it is our own "baleful strix" since it's a wall which draw). Finally tooking it out, im giving a second chance of geist for its persist since I really love my CMC3 cards...

In fact, my CMC2 creature I used to play was Stoneforge Mystic but it was using a lot of space and i was usually using my mana on something else isntead of equiping creatures. any other thoughts?


Im going to try something like this on my sb

4 Thoughtseize
4 Natural Order
1 Progenitus
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Fleshbag Marauder
2 Choke

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Originally Posted by Megadeus

Davids list is pretty close to my own. I'm not a fan of not having the Fleshbag Maurader in the board though. I'm still glad I'm not the only one who thinks Aetherling is a great 6 drop in this deck

If nothin else, this gives me slim hope for Nashville next month

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Any reason the list runs Redcap and Finks but NOT Melira? Seems like an easy 1 of although I know it's fragile.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KntrellCL

I used to have Wall of Blossoms, but I just found as a poor card (it is our own "baleful strix" since it's a wall which draw). Finally tooking it out, im giving a second chance of geist for its persist since I really love my CMC3 cards...

In fact, my CMC2 creature I used to play was Stoneforge Mystic but it was using a lot of space and i was usually using my mana on something else isntead of equiping creatures. any other thoughts?


Im going to try something like this on my sb

4 Thoughtseize
4 Natural Order
1 Progenitus
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Fleshbag Marauder
2 Choke

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You should also add a Ruric Thar in your NO package.

Very nice finish, Gleicher! How was the Aetherling? I am taking the deck to another tournament next weekend, and could could be interested in testing some of the changes.

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Originally Posted by Kung Fu English

Any reason the list runs Redcap and Finks but NOT Melira? Seems like an easy 1 of although I know it's fragile.

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First you need a sac outlet to make it work

Second it's really hard to assemble a 3-card combo

Third melira is terrible on its own

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Originally Posted by pfiremc13

Third melira is terrible on its own

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I have to agree, hence why I keep Melira in the sideboard with Archmages for noncreature intensive combo.

If you're looking for something with a bit more utility, go with Master Biomancer (turns Veteran Explorers into Nimble Mongooses) or Zameck Guildmage. I prefer Melira simply because, well, she works with persist for probably the cheapest cost.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pfiremc13

First you need a sac outlet to make it work

Second it's really hard to assemble a 3-card combo

Third melira is terrible on its own

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I agree. Especially since I only have 2 Green Sun's Zenith, plus I would need a sac outlet. There are honestly not many games that I have more than 2 dudes on board. Maybe I play differently though..

Like I said, seeing Gleicher do well has really raised my hopes for SCG Nashville. I will be switching up my list this week hopefully, dropping thrun, adding redcap, and adding recurring nitemare over either the second Green Sun, or one of the 5 drops which would go to the board. Also I would like to work Aetherling into my board, probably over the Third Krosan Grip, which I found I only really wanted 2 last week.

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Originally Posted by Megadeus

I agree. Especially since I only have 2 Green Sun's Zenith, plus I would need a sac outlet. There are honestly not many games that I have more than 2 dudes on board. Maybe I play differently though..

Like I said, seeing Gleicher do well has really raised my hopes for SCG Nashville. I will be switching up my list this week hopefully, dropping thrun, adding redcap, and adding recurring nitemare over either the second Green Sun, or one of the 5 drops which would go to the board. Also I would like to work Aetherling into my board, probably over the Third Krosan Grip, which I found I only really wanted 2 last week.

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Same, except instead of SCG Nashville, I've got my sights set on SCG Cincinnati. Still got a ton of grinding to do though.

Two thoughts that came to me while jogging today:
1) anyone tried Genesis recently as an additional way of grinding out longer games? A single Recurring Nightmare often feels difficult to dig for, while Genesis can be Podded or GSZ+suicided (and when you don't need him dead, he's still a 4/4 trampler)
2) anyone tried Primeval Titan + Stage/Depths? I don't play the Jund lists, so I don't know how often fetching Kessig Wolf Run comes into play, but at that point wouldn't Prime Timing for Marit Lage be better?

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Originally Posted by civet five

Two thoughts that came to me while jogging today:
2) anyone tried Primeval Titan + Stage/Depths? I don't play the Jund lists, so I don't know how often fetching Kessig Wolf Run comes into play, but at that point wouldn't Prime Timing for Marit Lage be better?

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Sure if you fetch it with Titan it is better (or win more). The Problem is, that you can't dig for the combo without loam or crop rotation. So you have random useless lands in the deck. With Prime Time you can get both towers, and/or kessig, and/or grove and/or treetop village (depends on your list, most of the time you have 2 utility lands, besides 4 groves). If you resolve a titan you are in a very good spot to win the game - Stage/Depths doesn't matter here and you will struggle with theses lands more often before you enter the "titan stage".

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Originally Posted by MD.Ghost

Sure if you fetch it with Titan it is better (or win more). The Problem is, that you can't dig for the combo without loam or crop rotation. So you have random useless lands in the deck. With Prime Time you can get both towers, and/or kessig, and/or grove and/or treetop village (depends on your list, most of the time you have 2 utility lands, besides 4 groves). If you resolve a titan you are in a very good spot to win the game - Stage/Depths doesn't matter here and you will struggle with theses lands more often before you enter the "titan stage".

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My main issue is that I encounter games where I simply cannot grind them out without the singleton Recurring Nightmare - MUD variants come to mind as being particularly awful, as do certain Reanimator and Dredge board states. Basically there are situations where Grave Titan ceases to be scary on its own, and in those situations, having something besides Baleful Strix to attack would be nice.

I currently run an Oona in BUG Pod for this reason, as she's blue for FoW, closes games out really quickly, and messes with their deck while doing so, making it harder to come back in any sort of Hellbent situation.

In my Junk list, which is Podless, GSZ-based, I run a Primeval Titan to GSZ into and fetch Volrath's Stronghold, which basically serves as an extra Recurring Nightmare. However, I realized that at the point that I'm grabbing Volrath's Stronghold or Phyrexian Tower, I could just grab Dark Depths and Thespian's Stage and completely break the deadlock with Marit Lage.

Likewise my question about Genesis. He functions as a Volrath's Stronghold or a body, and sometimes I could see that being useful. Less so than Primeval Titan I think, but he does have the advantage of the Stronghold of not taking your draw step.

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Originally Posted by civet five

My main issue is that I encounter games where I simply cannot grind them out without the singleton Recurring Nightmare - MUD variants come to mind as being particularly awful, as do certain Reanimator and Dredge board states. Basically there are situations where Grave Titan ceases to be scary on its own, and in those situations, having something besides Baleful Strix to attack would be nice.

I currently run an Oona in BUG Pod for this reason, as she's blue for FoW, closes games out really quickly, and messes with their deck while doing so, making it harder to come back in any sort of Hellbent situation.

In my Junk list, which is Podless, GSZ-based, I run a Primeval Titan to GSZ into and fetch Volrath's Stronghold, which basically serves as an extra Recurring Nightmare. However, I realized that at the point that I'm grabbing Volrath's Stronghold or Phyrexian Tower, I could just grab Dark Depths and Thespian's Stage and completely break the deadlock with Marit Lage.

Likewise my question about Genesis. He functions as a Volrath's Stronghold or a body, and sometimes I could see that being useful. Less so than Primeval Titan I think, but he does have the advantage of the Stronghold of not taking your draw step.

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You're actually thinking the same way I did when I decided to run both Volrath's Stronghold+Phyrexian Tower and double Creeping Tar Pit: some games require the recursion of value creatures such as Eternal Witness and Thragtusk to outrace the opponent in terms of value, while other games require the quick clock of a man-land or Marit Lage because you're already way ahead of them in terms of value and just need to end it.

As for Genesis, he requires a bit of set up as Swords to Plowshares and Terminus is still a thing: I feel that Recurring Nightmare and Volrath's Stronghold are the better options.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by civet five

My main issue is that I encounter games where I simply cannot grind them out without the singleton Recurring Nightmare - MUD variants come to mind as being particularly awful, as do certain Reanimator and Dredge board states. Basically there are situations where Grave Titan ceases to be scary on its own, and in those situations, having something besides Baleful Strix to attack would be nice.

I currently run an Oona in BUG Pod for this reason, as she's blue for FoW, closes games out really quickly, and messes with their deck while doing so, making it harder to come back in any sort of Hellbent situation.

In my Junk list, which is Podless, GSZ-based, I run a Primeval Titan to GSZ into and fetch Volrath's Stronghold, which basically serves as an extra Recurring Nightmare. However, I realized that at the point that I'm grabbing Volrath's Stronghold or Phyrexian Tower, I could just grab Dark Depths and Thespian's Stage and completely break the deadlock with Marit Lage.

Likewise my question about Genesis. He functions as a Volrath's Stronghold or a body, and sometimes I could see that being useful. Less so than Primeval Titan I think, but he does have the advantage of the Stronghold of not taking your draw step.

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That is why I like the Aetherling that Gleicher played. It beats a stalled board, is actually basically unkillable, and is a great defender as well.

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Originally Posted by Svknoe

Very nice finish, Gleicher! How was the Aetherling? I am taking the deck to another tournament next weekend, and could could be interested in testing some of the changes.

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Yeah my keep in that on camera match was really bad. I was rushing to finish the match in time and just made a bad decision there. Probably shoulda kept my first hand.
Anyway I think the deck is as good as ever. It does have a problem with dark depths loam combo and there's not a great way to answer it with creatures since they can make it at the end of your turn. Possible solutions I've considered are:
1. Chord of calling for sower/fleshbag/venser. Chord is also a good card in general but maybe a bit slow for legacy.
2. Some pithing needles to name thespians stage. These would have some added use against other random stuff like jace but don't play well with deed.
3. Ignore it.

I liked fleshbag as a kind of answer to true name (and merit lage if you can fog it for a turn). But it is cuttable.
Aetherling was the only card I didn't board in but I like it as another threat against slower white decks like miracles as an unkillable threat.
You could try cutting the grave Titan in the main and replacing it with aetherling to save space. I'm not sure if that's a good idea though. Usually grave Titan will be better but it also might not matter most of the time.
I liked the maindeck a lot and used every card. There's 61 cards and I don't really feel comfortable cutting any of them.
Only 1 recurring nightmare is fine because with all the brainstorms fetches and podding you can probably see it and you don't need it necessarily.
But yeah the deck is still strong. I don't think a white splash is needed or good, stick to 3 colors. 4 brainstorms was awesome and I am stupid for having argued against it. The sb plan against combo is still good, I beat sneak and show and dredge on the day. I'll definitely run it back at the first opportunity.

Sweet! Yeah Im a believer of 4 Brainstorms as well. I have just really liked Fleshbag in my local meta at least, hence why I like it as a MB slot. I havent been running Nitemare, but I will this week. It just seems awesome. I was stuck on last year when I played GB fit I never really used it, so I just dismissed it. Answer to Lage is a bit awkward. Outside of putting in some sort of maybe Loam package in our own board with a wasteland or something... I'm not sure what our best course of action would be there.

Edit: Oh and of course Congrats on the Finish!

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Originally Posted by GtF

Yeah my keep in that on camera match was really bad. I was rushing to finish the match in time and just made a bad decision there. Probably shoulda kept my first hand.
Anyway I think the deck is as good as ever. It does have a problem with dark depths loam combo and there's not a great way to answer it with creatures since they can make it at the end of your turn. Possible solutions I've considered are:
1. Chord of calling for sower/fleshbag/venser. Chord is also a good card in general but maybe a bit slow for legacy.
2. Some pithing needles to name thespians stage. These would have some added use against other random stuff like jace but don't play well with deed.
3. Ignore it.

I liked fleshbag as a kind of answer to true name (and merit lage if you can fog it for a turn). But it is cuttable.
Aetherling was the only card I didn't board in but I like it as another threat against slower white decks like miracles as an unkillable threat.
You could try cutting the grave Titan in the main and replacing it with aetherling to save space. I'm not sure if that's a good idea though. Usually grave Titan will be better but it also might not matter most of the time.
I liked the maindeck a lot and used every card. There's 61 cards and I don't really feel comfortable cutting any of them.
Only 1 recurring nightmare is fine because with all the brainstorms fetches and podding you can probably see it and you don't need it necessarily.
But yeah the deck is still strong. I don't think a white splash is needed or good, stick to 3 colors. 4 brainstorms was awesome and I am stupid for having argued against it. The sb plan against combo is still good, I beat sneak and show and dredge on the day. I'll definitely run it back at the first opportunity.

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Sower of Temptation and Phantasmal Image also help, though they aren't permanent solutions.

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Originally Posted by GtF

Anyway I think the deck is as good as ever. It does have a problem with dark depths loam combo and there's not a great way to answer it with creatures since they can make it at the end of your turn. Possible solutions I've considered are:
1. Chord of calling for sower/fleshbag/venser. Chord is also a good card in general but maybe a bit slow for legacy.
2. Some pithing needles to name thespians stage. These would have some added use against other random stuff like jace but don't play well with deed.
3. Ignore it.

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Just to mention a few more alternatives:

Tradewind Rider could be a permanent solution. Sounds a bit far-fetched. Which most answers seem to do. Perhaps it could at some point fit in the meta; it's not horrible against Show and Tell.

Opposition is a possible answer, but it needs some backup if they keep loaming and replaying the combo once every few turns. Perhaps together with Recurring Nightmare + Venser, Shaper Savant / Acidic Slime. And I can't stop thinking the Opposition might prove useful against a whole plethora of fat beast decks (Sneak and Show, MUD, Cloudpost etc). Sorry for being a bit repetitive on that point.