Thanks for the advice, I've basically been going off what I've seen other Elves players do when playing against them, so its nice to have some logic behind why they boarded that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shagstaman
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Thanks for the advice, I've basically been going off what I've seen other Elves players do when playing against them, so its nice to have some logic behind why they boarded that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shagstaman
Here's my Week#8 match of the Legacy Mediocre League vs Romario Neto's Eldrazi. It's over an hour long, but quite cool:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HV6Y1oTrB5I
You can find my decklist from the tournament on the website.
Just a quick tournament report playing a pretty stock Natural Order list. This was a fundraiser for Autism awareness and had 45 players.
Round 1 Joshua playing D&Ts
Game 1- turn 4 Natural Order with 6 creatures out is pretty good it seems.
Game 2 takes a little longer but he gets Mirran Crusader out and then puts the Jitte on. I take a couple of daws and don't find an out.
G3 was a long grindy one where Symbiote allowed me to block a Thalia with a Jitte a couple of times. Then play and bounce Rec Sage to grind out the win in turns.
2-1 games 1-0 matches
Round 2 Andy Show and Tell
G1 I curve out pretty quickly and he can't find a counter.
G2 I am able to keep him off balance with Therapy and Thoughtseize out of the board.
2-0 match record
Round 3 Dorian playing Burn
G1 out race him with a turn 3 Natural Order into Craterhoof
G2 & 3 lost to t2 Eidolon of the Great Revel in both of these games. He basically then burned me out t3 both games. Any suggestions on dealing with burn? I've had the same issue in modern with Elves as well; I feel it's pretty much a bad matchup no matter what I've tried.
2-1 matches
Round 4 Lawrence playing Miracles
G1 I'm able to grind him out attacking for 2-3 a turn.
G2&3 get him down to 1 in game 2 and 3 and game 3. But, I can't get through with terminus being cast 7 times both games and a well timed Top spin to draw a Containment Priest in response to Natural Order. Miracles dos what it supposed to do very well and these games were actually challenging and fun to play.
2-2 matches
Round 5
Bye - not quite sure why this happened this way
Round 6 Michael on D&Ts
No notes on this one since the top 8 were all able to draw but we still play it out.
I won in 2 games. I had Rec Sage in both opening hands and he didn't have the greatest draws.
4-2 in matches which ended up being 12th.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I played in Card Kingdom's Legacy 1K last weekend on a whim. 50-ish players = 6 Swiss rounds + T8. I mostly came by to pick up PAX tickets from one of the TOs but I figured I might as well play since I had nothing going on.
I was stoned the whole time. I made it to the finals.
VODs here: https://www.twitch.tv/cardkingdom/v/80848475
My matches are at 4:09, 6:23, and 7:40. I was playing super lose in the finals since we already split and I wasn't playing for anything. Also that was my only sober match of the day so that just goes to show you the perils of responsibility.
I'll try to write up something when I get home if there's any interest. My notes are super lose + I don't remember my rounds but I know I beat Shardless BUG like 3 times. What a scrubby expensive deck.
It's nice to see all you green mages still getting down with the :g:.
Thanks @lordofthepit for the deck borrows.
Guess who's back. Back again.
Danyul's back. Tell a friend.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CoyTRXEXgAEs92q.png:small
ayup, nice job danyul ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian23
and yes the little green mans are still beating arse.
Julian, that is a ridiculous photoshop. I'm both surprised and frightened by how quickly you put that together.
Good to hear! It's been awhile since I even touched a Magic card so I wasn't sure what to expect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shagstaman
I know the SB and MD flex slot should be tuned to your local FNM metagame, but I'm trying to make a list I can take to a GP. Any tips on changes? Right now i'm not sure if the MD configuration should be 2 Birchlore Rangers/3 Heritage Druids or 1 Birchlore Ranger/4 Heritage Druid. Also not sure if Progenitus is worth a SB slot or if something like Ruric Thar, Wren's Runpackmaster, 2nd Null Rod, Pithing Needle, or 4th Cabal Therapy better.
Another question. I want to play NO. I know chaos elves is all the rage right now but NO is one of my favorite cards. However, not sure if 4 is too much. Would it be worth it to go down to 3 NO to make space for a MD Scooze to save a SB slot?
Creatures:
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Quirion Ranger
2 Craterhoof Behemoth
4 Heritage Druid
1 Birchlore Rangers
1 Reclamation Sage
Spells: 12
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Natural Order
Lands: 20
2 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
4 Gaea's Cradle
2 Bayou
2 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Pendelhaven
1 Cavern of Souls
SB: 15
SB: 3 Abrupt Decay
SB: 3 Cabal Therapy
SB: 2 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Scavenging Ooze
SB: 1 Choke
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Sylvan Library
SB: 1 Null Rod
SB: 1 Progenitus
I personally prefer the 2 Birchlore/3 Heritage split. Birchlore can still be very nutty and diversifying your portfolio is nice in this instance.
Only bring Progenitus if you also want to bring a bad beat story home from the event.
I really like WRP and Needle. You might not need the 4th Therapy because your Surgicals are also slightly hateful vs the same matchups. If you want the 4th Therapy, make cuts there first.
I've never liked Choke but that might be more a matter of taste. Or a small sample size of experience to draw from. That would be my first cut, for WRP. And then of course cut Prog for a Needle.
Going to 3 NO + 1 Scooze is totally fine as well and actually I prefer that setup too. You know how good Scooze is. And having access to it in G1, especially at a GP, is fantastic.
I was a large advocate of 4 NO until recently... I am running 3 NO, 1 sylvan library instead. Helps the miracles matchup and gives added percentage points against the fair/grindy decks like lands, shardless, and DnT (all good matchups imo, but they have potential to grind you out).
Choke sucks imo because the matchup you really want it in is miracles...and they bring in wear//tear vs us now (due to needles, library, and choke).
GP metagame WILL have pox, reanimator, misc obscure combo, etc. So I too like scooze MD. He will also give game vs the spikey delver players who don't know legacy well and just asked for a ham sandwich from their buddies.
lastly, I still think Progenitus is worth it sb. He is tutorable from a relatively empty board and gives simply free wins vs some of the aforementioned popular decks like DnT, shardless, delver decks, etc--none of which are bad matchups per se, but all of which get much more even post board.
Gl!
Thank you Shagstaman and danyul! I see the differing opinions.
I guess what I got is this: Progenitus and WRP both serve the same purpose. They serve an as alternate win con for grindy matchups. I guess I have to decide between the 2.
I will consider 3 NO main and drop the 4th NO for a Sylvan Library. However, what should I cut for a MD Scooze? And i guess this frees up a SB slot. Maybe for the 4th Cabal Therapy. I may even get another slot if I cut Choke. Perhaps Elderscale Wurm? So many choices argh.
So new SB for a wide-open field:
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Pithing Needle
1 Null Rod
1 Progenitus OR Wren's Run Packmaster
1 Krosan Grip OR Elderscale Wurm OR Ruric Thar OR Choke OR Scavenging Ooze
so hard to decide lol
2 birchlore 3 heritage is much better than 4 heritage 1 birchlore. Also, I disagree about proge's utility. It is not that common that you want NOs and that proge is often enough a better target than hoof/WRP.
I would advise to put both Ooze and WRP MD. WRP is brutal vs almost any non-combo MU.
I start to like less and less Sylvan library, as it takes to much hate which is not primarily intended for it, and matches poorly vs wear-tear. The latter is the main reason Choke became a bad SB card.
You can run MD a win condition package of 2 NO, 1 hoof, 1 WRP. From your list it opens a slot for Ooze, and let you 3 MD strong win condition for 4 manas plus enable GSZ as a wincon for 5 manas.
Interesting. So that's something like a chaos elves-NO hybrid. So from my list, you wouldQuote:
Originally Posted by dte
MD: +1 Birchlore Ranger, - 1 Heritage Druid, - 2 NO, + 1 Scooze, + 1 Wrp.
This frees up 2 SB slots. Would Krosan grip and the 3rd NO or something work. Hmm..
Also big question: how important is 20 land? I feel like I can cut a land to go down to 19 but I don't want to get mana screwed.
there is some overlap in the matchups they are good against...for example both are good vs shardless, delver decks, lands, and jund. BUT the main decision point comes down to this: 4 mana and easily GSZ'able but can be swords'd....or uncastable from hand but can only die to board wipes and edicts.Quote:
Originally Posted by AznSeal
lol I know the feeling--I agonize over the small tweaks every tournament. If you guess right, you win! but if you guess wrong (usually involving not enough surgicals lets be honest) and you lose! the pressure is real.Quote:
Originally Posted by AznSeal
How would you recommend SBing against lands? I can get miracles and storm covered with SB cards and the grindier decks are naturally s good matchup for us, especially with either Progenitus or WRP. But lands I feel like you need narrow as hell cards, like Tsbaos Web. I guess Surgical Extraction is good too and hips reanimate and storm. Might need to bump up my SB from 2 Surgicals to 3.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shagstaman
I'm trying for more broad, but less powerful SB cards with more applications across matchups than narrow, stronger targeted cards.
It doesn't get sworded that often: In MU you'll want to keep NO (and thus prog), there is usually no card selection. A StP is usually already used before you can get to 4-5 manas, so only topdecked stp is a problem. And WRP does not give many turns to the opponent to find the answer. Besides, when you are low on life, WRP is better than proge, which cannot block if you want to attack with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shagstaman
And of course the huge plus is that it is castable. And versus a sweeper better than proge as it let you restart with a DRS/visio.
Versus land grave hate, and if you have landhate: winter orb, moon-effect, wasteland. Pithing needle is really good here also. If you have, karakas.
I'm not an Elves player, but this is a very divisive point amongst players (Legacy or otherwise), and I actually encourage the opposite of what you're doing. I think you can afford more broad spectrum SB cards when you are a control deck, and already have some action against lots of decks (Miracles, Shardless, Jund). But when you are an aggressive or linear deck that has a very proactive gameplan (my general perception of Elves) I think you want your hate to specifically crush the matchups you're boarding against and are trying to fix. Surgical Extraction is a good example of a card that is pretty good at doing this against decks like Reanimator and Lands.Quote:
Originally Posted by AznSeal
Take my opinion with a grain of salt however, like I said, I am not an Elves player.
I world agree with your opinion but with tutors and card draw, elves is actually not so linear and more grindy. NO is just a must answer threat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Svyelunite
First, SE is a card you put in against land, but if far from being golden as it does not give a solution to either Tabernacle or a fast Marit Lage, natural or tutored via gamle/crop. It is only very good against their two grindy plans, LftL and P. Fire. In decks that have access to wasteland, SE is way better against lands. In elf, it is an ok card in the MU, no more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Svyelunite
Tsabo´s web is really underwhelming, if I had it I would probably not board it in. It does something only vs rishadan port.
Needle is much better and useful against other things.
Second, elf is far from being an aggressive deck, non control deck. It's best MU are the ones where elf adopt the control mode, such as against BUG variants or D&T (well, any plan works against simili-byes). you prevent them from attacking via block/bounce, make more CA than them, win. The longer the games go, the more likely it would end in your favor.
Versus lands, our problem is that they are better at controlling us (P Fire plus Wastelands plus tabernacle) and better as a combo deck (ie. they are more consistent at putting a flying 20/20 on the table by T3) through the disrupt exchange that can take place.
If you already play crop rotation, karakas and wasteland are quite good in this MU and do have broader applications if you want to play fringe cards. However, I strongly believe that if you want to address the MU, the SB card you want to up the count of is needle, which has broad application.
my sb is a bit different...but based on what you presented:Quote:
Originally Posted by AznSeal
-2 heritage
-2 nettle (these numbers are based on 3 heritage/2 birchlore...basically keep 1 heritage post-board)
-1 glimpse
-1 hoof
-1 cavern
+1 needle
+1 elderscale/ruric/scooze (most lands lists cant beat resolved elder)
+1 prog/wrp
+2 surgical
+1-2 decay (don't wanna overload on them, but they still help vs chalice and sphere)
edit: btw, shaman of the pack is a great tool vs lands as well, getting around chasm lock ;)