All B/R update speculation.

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Originally Posted by Zilla

Brainstorm is fun to play with, and not any more unfun to play against than any other card. I think that's a significant difference between the two cards.

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Brainstorm severely lacks counterplay to be a fun card.

What are your options? The realistic options are playing blue and counters or playing REB/Pyroblast (and no, stuff like Guttural Response does not cut it). Chalice or Thalia/Wingmare might already be too slow (call me when they make a good version of Spirit of the Labyrinth; Chains is in the same boat; Trinisphere puts even more restrictions on your deck and doesn't even stop 100%).

They would need to print more maindeckable hate at instant speed that costs 1 mana max. Then we could talk about fun.

The comparison of Brainstorm to Survival is not a strong one at all. Survival is as Zilla characterized it. It makes you durdle a lot without quite the guarantee of victory that ever should prompt a scoop from across the table. Brainstorm actually is much less of a sure thing and takes much less time to resolve. But it is a matter of degree and not category. This makes me wonder if there is an inverse rule in there somewhere which dictates that the more funa dn durdly a card is for the controller of it, the less fun it is for the opponent.

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Originally Posted by Dice_Box

And what of the people who think playing Survival is fun? If that's the line in the sand now, what about their wishes? If one subjective claim is good for one card, why is it not good for all?

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What I'm saying is that your comparison wasn't apt because Survival is fun for one party and distinctly unfun for the other. The same is not true of Brainstorm.

Furthermore, it can easily be argued that if you want to have fun playing Brainstorm, you can slot it into virtually any deck. The same is very clearly not true for Survival.

Note that I'm not suggesting Brainstorm's ubiquity is a good or bad thing for the health of the format - only that it's not objectively unfun to play with or against.

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Originally Posted by Finn

The comparison of Brainstorm to Survival is not a strong one at all.

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But if "Fun" is the measure of the day, how does one rule out any potential comparison?

Edit:
Being forced to effectively take it or be made to build ways to hate it out is not fun. Watching someone Brainstorm back a Terminus is not fun. Watching someone dig themselves out of moronic opening hands with a card is not fun, watching someone hide cards from discard is not fun. Brainstorm is about as much fun to me as you claim Survival is to you.

I think the graph posted by User Nielsie shows a little more than just "how busted brainstorm is." Link: http://https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7diBsK_VJ0cQlBrNms2NG45am8/view?pli=1

I believe it shows the shift to the busted khans spells. Ponder jumped around 20% (September 2014) when TC was a thing and hasn't fallen because DTT is essentially the same thing. Brainstorm jumped as well, obviously, but not as much but when the percentage of decks playing it is so high it's harder to jump an equal amount. Anyways, if you look at the graph pre khans, BS was fairly stable netting only a few percentage points over a year and a half. I'm unsure about data prior to this graph but I'm sure it's quite similar to pre khans.

An interesting note is BS rising is almost a direct link to the number of blue decks rising BUT the number of ponders rising is a rising of homogeneity in blue decks.

Obviously BS at 55-65% is "unhealthy" to some but banning DTT would most likely drop BS to these levels once again. I assume this is good news to most. However, I believe there would be an even greater effect in decreasing the amount of Ponders run which would increase the diversity of decks (at least in the color blue).

In conclusion, DTT needs a ban and I think WOTC will actually ban it soon for the health of the format.

Solidbass, that was a damn good post. Thanks for the perspective.

I shed no tears at TC getting banned and i wont' miss DTT either, but really are either of those cards actually better or more powerful than brainstorm?

It honestly feels like one of those, ban everything till necro is good, then keep banning everything except necro to keep it in check, sort of situations to me.

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Originally Posted by solidbass

I think the graph posted by User Nielsie shows a little more than just "how busted brainstorm is." Link: http://https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7diBsK_VJ0cQlBrNms2NG45am8/view?pli=1

I believe it shows the shift to the busted khans spells. Ponder jumped around 20% (September 2014) when TC was a thing and hasn't fallen because DTT is essentially the same thing. Brainstorm jumped as well, obviously, but not as much but when the percentage of decks playing it is so high it's harder to jump an equal amount. Anyways, if you look at the graph pre khans, BS was fairly stable netting only a few percentage points over a year and a half. I'm unsure about data prior to this graph but I'm sure it's quite similar to pre khans.

An interesting note is BS rising is almost a direct link to the number of blue decks rising BUT the number of ponders rising is a rising of homogeneity in blue decks.

Obviously BS at 55-65% is "unhealthy" to some but banning DTT would most likely drop BS to these levels once again. I assume this is good news to most. However, I believe there would be an even greater effect in decreasing the amount of Ponders run which would increase the diversity of decks (at least in the color blue).

In conclusion, DTT needs a ban and I think WOTC will actually ban it soon for the health of the format.

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DTT has to be banned. That goes without saying. It's more broken than TC.

While there would be a drop in BS and Ponder usage, I doubt the drop would be big. The Khans Delve spells made many people realize how good Ponder as the second premium cantrip really is, just like Young Pyromancer suddenly became a thing after being the red headed stepchild for so long.

Banning DTT alone is basically the Survival problematic of banning Vengevine instead of the enabler - it only takes one retarded blue-related print and blue is back in full force.

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Originally Posted by Barook

...just like Young Pyromancer suddenly became a thing after being the red headed stepchild for so long.

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I see what you did there. :wink:

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Originally Posted by nedleeds

It's pretty unfun to not be playing Brainstorm and watching your opponents keep of Land, Land, Land, Land, Glistner Elf, Brainstorm, Daze turn into a turn 3 kill. While you mulligan to 6 and get stuck with what you drew. Makes you wonder why any deck not playing Chalice on 1 would ever not play Brainstorm.

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So pissed last night playing Grixis Control vs. Grixis Delver. I didn't see a Brainstorm in either game, and all I drew were lands when my opponent was able to stabilize and cantrip for more. It's great on my side of the board, but it felt like he was hitting every opening hand and topdeck while I was struggling to keep up. Maybe I should have mulliganed better? Who knows, but one Brainstorm would have put me back into the game for sure.

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Originally Posted by solidbass

I think the graph posted by User Nielsie shows a little more than just "how busted brainstorm is." Link: http://https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7diBsK_VJ0cQlBrNms2NG45am8/view?pli=1

I believe it shows the shift to the busted khans spells. Ponder jumped around 20% (September 2014) when TC was a thing and hasn't fallen because DTT is essentially the same thing. Brainstorm jumped as well, obviously, but not as much but when the percentage of decks playing it is so high it's harder to jump an equal amount. Anyways, if you look at the graph pre khans, BS was fairly stable netting only a few percentage points over a year and a half. I'm unsure about data prior to this graph but I'm sure it's quite similar to pre khans.

An interesting note is BS rising is almost a direct link to the number of blue decks rising BUT the number of ponders rising is a rising of homogeneity in blue decks.

Obviously BS at 55-65% is "unhealthy" to some but banning DTT would most likely drop BS to these levels once again. I assume this is good news to most. However, I believe there would be an even greater effect in decreasing the amount of Ponders run which would increase the diversity of decks (at least in the color blue).

In conclusion, DTT needs a ban and I think WOTC will actually ban it soon for the health of the format.

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Not to mention how a silly card like Preordain became Legacy playable, and we see the trend spread into Modern with $10-15 Serum Visions. I'd have liked to see Preordain numbers on that graph as well.

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Originally Posted by jrsthethird

Not to mention how a silly card like Preordain became Legacy playable, and we see the trend spread into Modern with $10-15 Serum Visions. I'd have liked to see Preordain numbers on that graph as well.

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If we go by this, Preordain is at ~13%. Hardly relevant. Gitaxian Probe in the wake of the Delve spells would be more interesting, but I guess that's another case of making a good card popular. Free information is quite powerful.

Thaks Finn, I really appreciate it.

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Originally Posted by Barook

DTT has to be banned. That goes without saying. It's more broken than TC.

While there would be a drop in BS and Ponder usage, I doubt the drop would be big. The Khans Delve spells made many people realize how good Ponder as the second premium cantrip really is, just like Young Pyromancer suddenly became a thing after being the red headed stepchild for so long.

Banning DTT alone is basically the Survival problematic of banning Vengevine instead of the enabler - it only takes one retarded blue-related print and blue is back in full force.

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So I did a little research myself on the ponder increases per year and staring in 2011 to 2015 it went: 26.3% at 3.2 copies, 42.2% at 3.4 copies in 2012, 45.8% at 3.3 copies in 2013, 49.8% at 3.4 copies in 2014 and 64.4% at 3.6 copies in 2015. My source is mtgtop8.
So the first jump was due to Delver being printed and then it only rose a few percentage points for a year afterwards. The next significant jump was the printing of the busted delve spells.
These findings are quite interesting, I think, because if Ponder is being used a canary in the coal mine for homogeneity of decks it would suggest that Delver actually stifled diversity among blue decks more so than either TC or DTT...I won't draw any conclusions from this but it's at least something to think about.

Also, Ponder was released in 2007 and people understood the power of it very quickly, at least, they would have understood it much sooner than than the release of the khans spells. I sincerely believe that Ponder use would decrease in large numbers if DTT was banned. It is possible Ponder will not decrease that much but we have no hard evidence suggesting it would NOT go down significantly besides conjecture.

I think, for WOTC, banning DTT is the easiest thing for them to do. Just how TC was easy for them. Both of them have a measurable and easy to see effect on the format.

http://i.imgur.com/gD1lBiL.jpg

Doesn't relate to when sets drop but it shows the trend of top played cards from each year and how they trended.

Wow, that chart is pretty revealing. Both in terms of Brainstorm domination and in the incredible fall of non-blue strategies (even Wasteland is down dramatically, to say nothing of anything GWx related).

Poor Maverick, the fairest of them all :(

To be fair, decks like Jund/Shardless BUG becoming the midrange decks of choice has a lot to do with that.

Out of interest, what's the spread on Punishing Fire, Glistener Elf, GSZ, Wirewood Symbiote, Aether Vial and Progenitus?

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Originally Posted by Barook

They would need to print more maindeckable hate at instant speed that costs 1 mana max. Then we could talk about fun.

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They did. And it was the least fun time I can remember playing.
Can be run main in any deck, even non-blue. (And it was.)
Can be cast turn 1 on the draw. (And it was.)
Can even be used to fight itself, should the format get overran with it. (And it was, on both counts.)
Costs 1 mana, max. Was frequently cast for zero mana.
Instant speed.

Remember a card that was printed that fits all that criteria?

Mental Misstep

And look what happened there.


Disclaimer: I vote neither for nor against a brainstorm ban. I'd miss it, but I wouldn't even remotely consider selling out of Magic if it were. DTT is another animal entirely. Compare Dig Through Time to this: Ancestral Memories.

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Originally Posted by Dice_Box

Out of interest, what's the spread on Punishing Fire, Glistener Elf, GSZ, Wirewood Symbiote, Aether Vial and Progenitus?

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http://i.imgur.com/bYlheL6.jpg

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Originally Posted by DarthVicious

They did. And it was the least fun time I can remember playing.
Can be run main in any deck, even non-blue. (And it was.)
Can be cast turn 1 on the draw. (And it was.)
Can even be used to fight itself, should the format get overran with it. (And it was, on both counts.)
Costs 1 mana, max. Was frequently cast for zero mana.
Instant speed.

Remember a card that was printed that fits all that criteria?

Mental Misstep

And look what happened there.

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Oh yeah, I forgot to add the obvious "symmetrical" hate. Otherwise we would get another Misstep that gets abused by blue decks.

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Originally Posted by phonics

Doesn't relate to when sets drop but it shows the trend of top played cards from each year and how they trended.

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Poor Savannah, it's a pity to be the one.

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Originally Posted by DarthVicious

Compare Dig Through Time to this: Ancestral Memories.

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Guay's art is much more beautiful, though.

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Originally Posted by Barook

If we go by this, Preordain is at ~13%. Hardly relevant. Gitaxian Probe in the wake of the Delve spells would be more interesting, but I guess that's another case of making a good card popular. Free information is quite powerful.

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Indeed Preordain isn't even in my data because it never broke into the top20 cards of TCDecks. Probe on the other hand: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7d...ew?usp=sharing

BTW, DTT has passed TC's peak usage

Edit:
cards that got into the top20 since TCDecks data start (jan 2013):
Brainstorm
Force of Will
Wasteland
Ponder
Tarmogoyf
Polluted Delta
Abrupt Decay
Deathrite Shaman
Thoughtseize
Misty Rainforest
Verdant Catacombs
Lightning Bolt
Daze
Underground Sea
Spell Pierce
Swords to Plowshares
Flooded Strand
Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Hymn to Tourach
Tropical Island
Scalding Tarn
Volcanic Island
Surgical Extraction
Lotus Petal
Delver of Secrets
Stoneforge Mystic
True-Name Nemesis
Tundra
Liliana of the Veil
Gitaxian Probe
Treasure Cruise
Pyroblast
Dig Through Time
Flusterstorm
Cabal Therapy

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Originally Posted by DarthVicious

Disclaimer: I vote neither for nor against a brainstorm ban. I'd miss it, but I wouldn't even remotely consider selling out of Magic if it were. DTT is another animal entirely. Compare Dig Through Time to this: Ancestral Memories.

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Ancestral Memories is unplayable junk, though. It's like comparing Tarmogoyf to Grizzly Bears. Being better, even a lot better, than a profoundly mediocre card doesn't say anything at all about whether you're broken or not.

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Originally Posted by Lord Seth

Ancestral Memories is unplayable junk, though. It's like comparing Tarmogoyf to Grizzly Bears. Being better, even a lot better, than a profoundly mediocre card doesn't say anything at all about whether you're broken or not.

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Reducing the cost of something by :3: and spontaneously making it an instant is a pretty huge jump. In current Legacy, Wrath of God is unplayable junk. WOTC (in their infinite wisdom) reduced its cost by :2::w: and made it castable during your opponent's turn. The card went from unplayable junk to format-oppressing absurdity.

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Originally Posted by Admiral_Arzar

Reducing the cost of something by :3: and spontaneously making it an instant is a pretty huge jump. In current Legacy, Wrath of God is unplayable junk. WOTC (in their infinite wisdom) reduced its cost by :2::w: and made it castable during your opponent's turn. The card went from unplayable junk to format-oppressing absurdity.

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Hallowed Burial, not Wrath.

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Originally Posted by Admiral_Arzar

In current Legacy, Hallowed Burial is unplayable junk. WOTC (in their infinite wisdom) reduced its cost by :3::w: and made it castable during your opponent's turn. The card went from unplayable junk to format-oppressing absurdity.

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Fixed. :smile:
Your point remains just as valid.


Edit: Nath'd :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Zombie

Hallowed Burial, not Wrath.

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Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew

Fixed. :smile:
Your point remains just as valid.


Edit: Nath'd :rolleyes:

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Yeah I know. I used WOG as an example because we all know Burial has never seen Legacy play (WOG has) and because the mana gap wouldn't have been the right number :tongue:.

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Originally Posted by Admiral_Arzar

Reducing the cost of something by :3: and spontaneously making it an instant is a pretty huge jump. In current Legacy, Wrath of God is unplayable junk. WOTC (in their infinite wisdom) reduced its cost by :2::w: and made it castable during your opponent's turn. The card went from unplayable junk to format-oppressing absurdity.

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Wrong. Wrath of God was not unplayable junk before Terminus, and in fact saw a reasonable amount of play in Legacy. And it still sees some play in Modern and would see a fair amount of Standard play if it were reprinted. Ancestral Memories was terrible in Legacy back then, and would see little (probably zero) play in Modern and Standard if legal.

Also, the applicable card here is Hallowed Burial, not Wrath of God, and there's a bigger mana gap between Hallowed Burial and Terminus than there is between Ancestral Memories and Dig Through Time. So this analogy of yours doesn't really work.

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Originally Posted by Admiral_Arzar

Yeah I know. I used WOG as an example because we all know Burial has never seen Legacy play (WOG has) and because the mana gap wouldn't have been the right number :tongue:.

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So, by your own admission, your comparison was faulty. Heck, you even admit right here that Wrath of God was not, as you just previously claimed, unplayable junk in Legacy!

Even if someone wants to claim that the difference between Wrath of God and Hallowed Burial's function is small enough that we should count Wrath of God as the point of comparison, it's still a small upgrade to Terminus, whereas Dig Through Time is a small downgrade from Ancestral Memories (cards go to the bottom of the library rather than graveyard). But again, even if you disregard all that, you're comparing a card that was decent in Legacy (Wrath of God) to a card that was awful in Legacy (Ancestral Memories).

A history lesson in absurdity.

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Originally Posted by nedleeds

Let's look at the inception of split legacy, by Brainstorm deck I actually mean a deck with 4 Brainstorms here.

GP Philly 2005 (38%)

3 Brainstorm decks, Brainstorm makes a 12 card appearance.

GP Lille 2006 (50%)

4 Brainstorm decks, 16 card appearance.

GP Columbus 2007 (63%)

5 Brainstorm fueled decks (including 3 flash combo decks, 3 was enough to get Flash banned) 20 appearances.

GP Chicago 2009 (50%)

4 Brainstorm decks, 16 out of 32.

GP Madrid 2010 (63%)

5 Brainstorm decks, Entomb is legal as well, 20 appearances.

GP Columbus 2010 (63%)

5 Brainstorm decks, now we're getting warm.

GP Providence 2011 (75%) heating up!

6 Brainstorm decks at GP Mental Misstep

follow this trend and it's 28/32 at Paris, 32/32 Kyoto and so on.

... also of note 7 of 8 on Mental Misstep was sufficient to get that POS banned ... and then it's all downhill, there's a double DNT / Merfolk top 8 but it's pretty much been a Brainstorm orgy since.

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Originally Posted by Lord Seth

Also, the applicable card here is Hallowed Burial, not Wrath of God, and there's a bigger mana gap between Hallowed Burial and Terminus than there is between Ancestral Memories and Dig Through Time. So this analogy of yours doesn't really work.

Even if someone wants to claim that the difference between Wrath of God and Hallowed Burial's function is small enough that we should count Wrath of God as the point of comparison, it's still a small upgrade to Terminus, whereas Dig Through Time is a small downgrade from Ancestral Memories (cards go to the bottom of the library rather than graveyard). But again, even if you disregard all that, you're comparing a card that was decent in Legacy (Wrath of God) to a card that was awful in Legacy (Ancestral Memories).

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Two people already pointed that out. My point was not to draw an analogy between the playability of Ancestral Memories and Wrath of God (if that wasn't obvious, apparently it wasn't) but to provide a real-world example of the difference removing 3 (or 4, if using Burial) mana from the cost of something makes. Also, claiming WOG has a better effect than Burial is dubious in a format with Delve, Deathrite Shaman, and all kinds of other graveyard shenanigans.

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Originally Posted by Admiral_Arzar

Wrath of God is unplayable junk. WOTC (in their infinite wisdom) reduced its cost by :2::w: and made it castable during your opponent's turn. The card went from unplayable junk to format-oppressing absurdity.

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Terminus sees pay in just one Legacy deck which sits at about 11.5% of the meta. How is that Format-oppressing?

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Originally Posted by Crimhead

Terminus sees pay in just one Legacy deck which sits at about 11.5% of the meta. How is that Format-oppressing?

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The question on Terminus is not so much how much play it sees, but what is not able to be played because of it. I do feel 1 mana for a wrath effect at instant speed is not something that should be welcome in the format, but then again, that my view. This topic I feel is kind for secondary to others in Legacy.

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Originally Posted by Dice_Box

The question on Terminus is not so much how much play it sees...
...I do feel 1 mana for a wrath effect at instant speed is not something that should be welcome in the format

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How much play it sees is determined by the fact that one must jump through hoops to cast it for 1cc. That's why it only sees play in one deck! A card:

Shallow Burial :w:
Instant
Put all creatures on the bottom of their owners' libraries

probably would be format oppressive, and would be run in all kinds of decks which don't have room for SDT.

It seems like this cards being judged by it's theoretical power (a theory which ignores the limitations of the card) despite the fact that these limitations are in practice what keeps the card in check. Not a very reasonable stance.

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Originally Posted by Dice_Box

The question on Terminus is...
...what is not able to be played because of it.

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You can't blame a decks failure on s a single card - not if that card is only run a single deck with a solid but reason performance. Maybe Miracles was the last straw for most aggro decks, but let's not blame the nail and ignore the coffin!

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Originally Posted by Crimhead

Terminus sees pay in just one Legacy deck which sits at about 11.5% of the meta. How is that Format-oppressing?

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If the effect of one-mana instant speed Wraths that are played in the best deck in the format isn't already obvious to you, you're beyond help.

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Originally Posted by Dice_Box

The question on Terminus is not so much how much play it sees, but what is not able to be played because of it. I do feel 1 mana for a wrath effect at instant speed is not something that should be welcome in the format, but then again, that my view. This topic I feel is kind for secondary to others in Legacy.

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Yup.

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Originally Posted by Crimhead

You can't blame a decks failure on s a single card - not if that card is only run a single deck with a solid but reason performance. Maybe Miracles was the last straw for most aggro decks, but let's not blame the nail and ignore the coffin!

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I am not about to, I understand the overall issues for decks like Golbins, I played it for years. That said, we are talking single card might see play in one deck, but that one deck has been top dog for years. Having to face it twice in a GP with anything that folds to instant speed wrath more or less knocks that deck out of the format. The exception being only to my knowledge Elves, that could win only be sometimes being faster.

Also, its not like you have to jump though that many hoops to run it, I mean its not like SDT is not a card that does anything useful like let you get massive virtual card advantage. I mean, when was the last time you Thoughsiezed a deck with a top on the table and felt like you had really achieved something?

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Originally Posted by Dice_Box

Also, its not like you have to jump though that many hoops to run it, I mean its not like SDT is not a card that does anything useful like let you get massive virtual card advantage.

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Enough hoops that most decks can't run it. Stoneblade would probably like a 1cc Hallowed Burial - at least in the board. Ditto for D&T. Control Lands (with a white splash) might get a boost. None of these decks can run Terminus because the "hoops" needed to give it consistency are not in their game plan. SDT is good, but it's not viable for every control deck.

Merfolk seems to be making a comeback - if this continues we won't really have the argument that Aggro is non-existent. Personally I'm very happy to see it back.

I get that people miss Goblins and Zoo - I'd like to see them back. But not at the cost of banning out the only stack-based control deck in the format (which is nowhere near the ~20% of the meta like it had been for a while).

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Originally Posted by Dice_Box

The question on Terminus is not so much how much play it sees, but what is not able to be played because of it.

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What decks does Terminus keep out of the format that couldn't also be explained by other factors as well, Zoo saw a decline in play with the printing of Stoneforge Mystic, and by the time Terminus was printed, was hardly a deck, Maverick was simply outdated by Jund and Shardless BUG, and Elves continued to see play up until recent months, in fact the deck as we know it debuted several months after terminus was printed.

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Originally Posted by Admiral_Arzar

Two people already pointed that out. My point was not to draw an analogy between the playability of Ancestral Memories and Wrath of God (if that wasn't obvious, apparently it wasn't) but to provide a real-world example of the difference removing 3 (or 4, if using Burial) mana from the cost of something makes.

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But again, you're referring to a card that was very Legacy playable getting reduced by 3 (or 4) versus a card that wasn't playable anywhere getting its cost reduced by 3.

I actually do favor a Dig Through Time ban, but trying to demonstrate its power by comparing it to Ancestral Memories is pretty silly.

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Also, claiming WOG has a better effect than Burial is dubious in a format with Delve, Deathrite Shaman, and all kinds of other graveyard shenanigans.

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Actually, I was claiming the exact opposite, that Hallowed Burial was a little better. That said, my phrasing was confusing, so I can understand misunderstanding me.

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Originally Posted by Lord_Mcdonalds

What decks does Terminus keep out of the format that couldn't also be explained by other factors as well, Zoo saw a decline in play with the printing of Stoneforge Mystic, and by the time Terminus was printed, was hardly a deck, Maverick was simply outdated by Jund and Shardless BUG, and Elves continued to see play up until recent months, in fact the deck as we know it debuted several months after terminus was printed.

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Mostly Goblins, I think. That deck was on the decline too I think, but was still a solid tier 2 deck or better before AVR. Maybe Affinity? That deck was never quite tier one either. Burn sucks against Miracles, but that's more about the Counter-Top than the Terminus.

I cant remember the exact chronology of Merfolk's decline - but I these days with 4x Chalice main, Forces, Vial, and a very fast clock, I can only imagine a solid MU vs Miracles.

Funny thingis that considering the raw pwoer of DTT and the amount of time that it spent in format, you may easily extrapoleteit to 95% satration if only you'll give it enought time and learn the players to use it. That's quite the contryry to BS that needed 18 years to make an impact and that's nowehere near to be the most hated card ever.
At least BS alows lots of different decks (from Storm through elver.de or w/e), shame's that it chokeholds the control department, as there's nothin better than Miracles in control bracket and you'd need to be idiot to play any other confrol thne Miracles.
Maybe soameday there's something new...

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Originally Posted by Bed Decks Palyer

Funny thingis that considering the raw pwoer of DTT and the amount of time that it spent in format, you may easily extrapoleteit to 95% satration if only you'll give it enought time and learn the players to use it.

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You might have made similar extrapolation when DRS was this old in the format. But it would have been a very silly and highly illogical!