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It depends on the match-ups:Quote:
Originally Posted by Togores
Combo (S&T/Reanimator) - Side out both Basics, you're not looking for Stability and Mox is better for faster kills.
Control (Miracles) - Side out all three Chrome Mox, Empty, Swamp and a Ponder. (Bayou, 3 Decay, 2 Swarm)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
You are correct. I've actually been having some success with Chains of Vapor to bounce them, might stick to that over the Pyroclasms.
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So tournament ended and I yoloed with the basic land list.
Ender top 4 of the 50 ppl event loosing to lands.
Report and so will follow later or tomorrow.
Posted my report here on the report part but also copy here so there can be a direct way of looking for it.
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...900#post863900
Hello today I reached the top 4 of the monthly legacy league of Madrid (Spain) featuring 50 players with TES (The EPIC Storm!!!1!1!!!), despite having played lately ANT much more I wanted to give it a try again and I thought it was a good metacall due to the more hatebears and so decks that were rising on my meta. Tes is a turn 2 deck while and is a turn 3 deck, that matters when you want to fight chalice and hatebears. Also with the banning of Treasure Cruise DRS would come back and Past in flames does not like this one mana planeswalker.
of friday I went to a 30 people event with tes featuring no basics and won. And in the beginning I wanted to play ANT in the league because usually there are more control decks and ANT is more able to fight a longer game because of the 2 senseis divining top I play maindeck. But after wining with tes I just wanted to YOLO and went to play the new version with a few basics also anticipating the comeback of wasteland. And I was on the steak because I also won yesterday the monthly vintage league with Monastery Mentor remora deck (Its just overpowered the guy in vintage), so making it in the weekend 3 eternal tournaments a win would be really awesome over 9000.
This was the list I sleeved in and went to shuffle like a boss:
4 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Bloodstained Mire
2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
1 Island
1 Swamp
3 Chrome Mox
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Dark Ritual
4 Rite of Flame
3 Infernal Tutor
4 Burning Wish
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Duress
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Empty the Warrens
Sideboard
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Xantid Swarm
1 Void Snare
1 Bayou
2 Pyroclasm
1 Infernal Tutor
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Past in Flames
1 Massacre
I like the massacre to have something to wish for with burning that costs no mana when thalia comes down and the rest is more or less usual. So lets start!
Round 1 miracles
Game one he keeps sensei and counterbalance and I therapy sensei and duress the counterbalance just to win that turn.
I side in xantid because I know he is not a bix expert of the deck and maybe he board out all the spot removal.
+3 xantid
+3 decay
+1 bayou
-1 empty
-3 mox
-2 ponder
- 1 island (because post board I have 4 islands and also s 4 swamps and making duress then ritual is great)
Game two I have a mediocre hand of:
2 Burnign wish
Bayou
Gitaxian
2 decay
Xantid
SHOULD i HAVE MULLIGAN THIS ON THE DRAW?
May be my hand was bad but I had greed land for decay, and I was on the draw. He plays a land and passes.I draw a therapy and gitaxian him seeing this:
Volcanic
Jace
Counterbalance
Tundra
Flooded
Scalding
Not a really a good hand… With the Gitaxian I draw duress, so thats party. Therapy counterbalance because It could get bad if i don't draw mana for decay soon and pass. He plays a land and passes. I draw something thats not good and duress him, he found a brainstorm and lets jace the second on top showing me only lands. So I pass he plays a land and passes. I draw another blank and pass, jace comes down. Until two turns later and two jace brainstorm and a top I get to find a second land. While this I had played a xantid that got forced and then another that got bounced. Some turns latter Im dead.
Game three we get to moment where we I draw and have:
2 lands in play
And in hand:
LED
Infernal
Ad nauseam
Dark ritual
Therapy
He says stop and Vendilions me with one mana left, so I think he might be desperate and does the bad players Vendilion because he feels not safe. And here is the point, I really don't care what he takes but for me the best one is the dark ritual and the worst is the led because without ritual i can fire of nauseam and with led I can't also not fire it. Taking the led is a huge mistake due to me drawing any mana source is win. There is some justice in life and draw a petal. I evaluate the situation and get to the result he has nothing. And my game is not going any better after he untaps and start attacking. So I YOLO and Nauseam, he lets it resolve and I win. After this he show me a counterspell in hand But that Vendilion costed him the game.
2-1
1-0 total
Round 2 Maverik
He usually like to play GW decks like zoo or maverik But i'm much more sure when I look at his lifepad. His life go to 21, 22, 23 and his opponents to 19, 17, 11, 5. So this seems a few hits, a few swords and a big reliquary hitting two times for 6.
ALWAYS CHANGE THE PAPER OF YOUR SCORE PADS, I HAVE KNOW WHAT SO MANY OPPONENTS PLAY JUST LOOKING AT THE LIFE…
So I keep a hand that makes 10 tokens turn one on the play and get there easy.
-3 duress
+2 pyroclasm
+1 infernal
Game two was weird because he starts with bojuka on me. I prove him seeing a thalia, a tegg, 2 moms, knight and a fetch. that quite a good hand. And mine is kinda slow. He plays the mother next turn and I therapy thalia. having pyroclasm in hand. He doesn't have a second land.. He obviously draws a canopy and plays tegg. I have to wait. Now I have a problem. I ponder and see the burning I was missing in my full mana hand but the other 2 cards are blanks, and I can't answer the mon + tegg so and will die. So I shuffle and draw a blank. He plays the knight attacks for two and passes. I draw blank and he attacked with his tegg and knight for 5. I'm at 10 now, then he plays the second mom. On my turn I draw blank and Pyroclasm him, He ask is its too all creatures and bins all 3… HE DIDN'T USE HIS ONE MOM TO GIVE PROTECTION TO THE TEGG If I would have know that the game would have been fast over. I draw 3 more turns no business and loose.
Game 3
My hand is:
underground
Dark ritual
infernal
rite of flame
brainstorm
island
misty
I know he plays discard so I have a turn 2 win, So I just play underground and pass, If he wasteland me I just time walk me into more cards if not I win.
He also plays the seize and I cast brainstorm drawing infernal, chrome, led. I put island under led so any card he takes I win next turn. he tries to time walk my hellbent taking the mox that would have imprinted the second infernal and I draw led and nauseam with 1 red mana floating and thats game.
2-1
2-0 total
Round 3
I know he plays merfolks and he know i'm on storm, He says that please don't make him 1.000.000 tokens first turn. So I write on my lifepad:
PLAN 1: 1000000 goblins
PLAN 2: DONT LOSE
My hand of 7 has only petal as mana and my hand of 6 has no mana. So I go down to 5 of burning, land and 3 duress. Not really good but he also mulled to 6. He starts with vial, I duress, see phantasmal, nemesis a lord and a land. Then he plays the lord. I get to empty the warrens for 10 and therapy from him 2 phantasmal. But his lord, the nemesis and a mura get to kill all my tokens being him at 8 lifes when I keep 5 tokens, I need 2 more mana to make a tendrils but I never get to them and die to his alpha strike of 15 lethals.
I side:
+3 xantid
+ bayou
-1 swamp
-2 mox
-1 ponder
I play a fast xantid but have no win, while this he beating me down and has a dead swansong in hand, he is quite happy that i'm at seven life so he got rid of nauseam. I'm one mana short to past in flames loop him, so I smile and say that he should have now be so happy, my nauseam is good enough. I xantid and go for nauseam at 7 LIFE with no mana but also no landrop. So a few cards like led, burning, petal land and ritual later I go to two life and win against his angry face of wtf you lucksack.
Now I reboard because of his chalice and also because he starts.
+3 xantid
+3 decay
+1 bayou
-1 swamp
-1 mox
-2 ponder
-2 therapy
-1 empty (I saw jitte and I always get raced)
He keeps and plays vial on one, passes and then says like: oh, wait, Hmm ok yes your turn… This seems like a chalice… I drop a xantid and 2 leds and a petal and pass. He curses himself and says that now he will be have to play the chalice on one… he plays a cursecatcher and a silvergill and attacks then plays a second silvergill. I also attack with xantid and then cast infernal into nauseam paying into his cursecatcher. I stop on 8 life so that with his 2 silvergill he would need 2 lords and a land to win, which he didn't has for sure, he also has a jitte with 2 counters. So next turn I have to do impossible to win. I start with a xantid hit (he has 2 cards in hand and I assume no counters so he is trying to win the jitte life route) and then decay on the chalice. Now I have to play a brainstorm and draw a ritual and get rewarded. Now my hand is:
therapy
2 burning
2 dark ritual
1 rite of flame
with one infernal and one dark ritual in grave and 2 lands and a mox in play.
I go like:
dark ritual BBB 3 (decay 1 and Brainstorm 2)
dark ritual BBBBB 4
Rite of flame RR BBBBB 5
Burning for past in flames R BBBB 6 and a land untaped
Tap land R BBBBBB 6
Cabal therapy myself on burning R BBBBB 7
Past in flames B 8
dark ritual BBBBBBB 11
infernal for led BBBBB 12 (I had to get hellbender)
Led for red BBBBB RRR 13
Burning wish for tendrils 15 (Also that why I had to discard with therapy so it has flashback)
GG
My opponent has a cage in hand but having to play the chalice on one stopped that.
2-1
3-0 total
Round 4 Canadian
Game one he is just beating with a mungo and I destroy his hand, he is hellbent and I can go fo next turn while I have now 15 lifes. I have a duress to be sure he can't draw a counter and I'm able to go of post duress. He draws a wasteland and gets rid of my volcanic (he already destroyed the other before) So I draw no red source I need to combo and pass. He draws bolts me and his mungo now gets threshold and I go to 8 after his swing. Still no red source pass. He attack me to 5 and passes. Still no red so I pass. He swings making me go 2 and show me a fresh top decked bolt.
Side nothing Muahahhaha
Game two I smell he has Vendilion and I make a cool brainstorm into an nauseam play so that he can't Vendilion me. I'm at 16 lifes when the vendilion comes and I just fetched for a volcanic to go off vs his wasteland, So I have island, swamp, mox on black and he wastelands my volcanic. I have to play the other volcanic because nauseam let me on 4 lifes so I can stand a Vendilion hit and win. Brainstorm to try to find card and have the top card setted up. He Vendilions my empty WTF? instead of the burning wish and I have to go of next turn with duress backup to his already no counter hand. Seems good right? He top decks wasteland kills my red I need to go of and I'm dead…
0-2 he wasted my happiness
3-1 total
Go make a break to eat and come back latter.
Some cool spanish food later…
Round 5 UWR Stoneforge control THE MOST FUCKIN ROUND FOR ME
Game one is quite simple, I know he has 2 dig, fow and pierce, sfm, explosives with 4 lands. I duress his fow and then therapy him, he makes pierce I don't pay. I YOLO again on the dig because my hand Is not really good and after resolving one and him having more chances to win is easy. I just go all in with infernal. He digs and if he find pierce or fow i'm dead. I get really fucking lucky and win BAM HEADSHOT
I side like this:
+3 decay
+1 bayou
-1 swamp
-2 mox
-1 empty
He plays a mage, I decay, He plays a vendilion I decay,He plays another mage and another Vendlion and when I get too see his hand he has 2 fow a pierce and My hand has no discard almost no tutor because of the Vendilion and Im on 11 lifes. I'm dead 3 turns after.
Now I reside like this
+2 decay
+2 pyroclasm
+1 bayou
-1 island (I always needed more black)
-2 mox
-1 empty
-1 ponder
I should have sided the tendrils in games where long and I was able to get 8 cards strong hand to just natural storm him.
So games 3 is ONE OF THE BEST JEDI MIND TRICKS I HAVE DONE.
This game is really long where i have in one moment a hand of 3 infernal to when I draw a discard just copy it. I have already used 1 burning (for infernal) and other 2 get countered, My opponent has a cage. I have killed with 2 pyroclasm 2 mages and the game is draw go. He has a mage on therapy, karakas and Vendlion and at one point with 2 fow 8 mana and a sword in hand. I'm at 3 lifes so I die next turn. After draw he plays the Vendlion he bounced with karakas in his turn. And sees:
2 infernal tutor
3 dark ritual
2 led
1 mox
1 rite of flame
I have a petal and 3 lands in play.
So he says I keep and he is sure its impossible to lose. like 20 players are looking at us and I give a smile and say so its over. I go straight to try to win this impossible game.
I have to say my opponent is a good player but has not played in the past years much and I had this in mind SO MAY BE I CAN JEDY HIM.
With all security of myself I go rite of flame, he says ok, I play 1 dark ritual ask if it resolves 3 times and it does. second dark ritual also resolves (Here i don't ask) One led, he thinks and also resolves, second also resolves. no my hand is:
2 infernal
1 mox
1 dark ritual
and a huge ton of mana.
I go really sure of myself Infernal tutor and say In response dark ritual!!!!
He shortcuts and starts asking himself why im doing this weird thing while I still have 2 cards in hand. Ask for the mana in pool and also asks for storm (if I search tendrils its lethal) he gets nervous and says, fuck I misplayed how could I have been so dumb. Seems like my shortcut plan worked. He end up hardcasting the fow and I just cast the other infernal and he concedes.
YUHU!!!! my plan worked, that he thought of my sure of going of moves and the weird infernal into ritual (not to dodge Vendlion) made him think far to much and ended misplaying. He thought that now I could just before infernal resolves crack led and because its mana ability he could not counter and was dead. I knew may be that he does not play much lately and my form of playing really sure of myself and so could make this happens (already happened another time where I played a infernal into a snare and responded with cabal to snare so he let all resolve and my only card in hand was lethal tendrils while he had lethal next turn and a fow in hand and after casting cabal I had no mana in pool and was dead. people make weird decisions when you cast a ritual in response to a business). His friends naming my opponent bad and the people watching doesn't believing he misplayed so and me playing so great.
Note: I never said another thing thats misrepresenting information, like explaining wrong something or so. I just played my cards and asked for responses and so.
2-1
4-1 totoal
Round 6 Junk pox
ID
I ended 6th of the swiss
Top 8 UWbg Stoneforge with DRS lingering and decays
Hes starts playing with island go and I have a really strong hand:
2 led
1 gitaxian
1 delta
1 undergound
1 dark ritual
1 brainstorm
1 rite of flame
I play gitaxian and see this:
Counterspell
Batterskull
Polluted
flooded
Jitte
Sword to plowshares
Not a good hand what to say and to his bad hand I just TOP DECK and infernal and he is dead.
I side:
+ 2 pyroclasm
+ 2 decay
+1 bayou
+1 tendrils
-1 island
-3 chrome
-1 ponder
-1 empty
game two he plays island go, I play ponder he says ok, turn 2 I play another ponder, he says ok again and after making the 3rd landrop I go for a therapy having a duress in hand and the kill on top of my deck for next turn. He says ok. So if he thought 0 seconds on my ponders before that eliminates fluster and pierce, he would have at least thought of it a second. He also thought 0 second on the therapy its because he assumes me naming fow and he doesn't have it. So the only choice is counterspell. And obviously I hit YEAHHH!!!!! and he keeped another bad hand of this remaining:
Swords to plowshares
Stoneforge
Batterskull
Mashflat
Next turn he goes land stone into fire and ice, (that eliminates snapcaster for my equation) I duress he drew a land and make a 17 life to 4 life ad nauseam that ends in burning crack led, infernal, infernal into tendrils GG
Another nice game played^^
So top 4 Im really near of making the 3 in a row win weekend.
top 4 Lands
game one I know my opponent has more or less no options so I keep a hand on the draw of:
2 led
1 burning
1 infernal
1 gitaxian
2 dark ritual
SHOULD i HAVE MULLIGAN THIS ON THE DRAW?
He starts land gamble and on my turn I draw a 3rd led play the gitaxian and see lots of nothing draw a petal and he is dead just making infernal for burning and tendrils.
I side:
-4 therapy
+3 decay
+1 bayou
(im pretty sure thats not the best configuration was what I thought)
Game 2 my hand is ok but not great and he makes turn 1 gamble for sphere of resistance and I don't hit it. Turn 2 sphere. turn 4 marit lage and I was able to make turn he hit for lethal Ad nauseam eot untap decay and win.
Game 3 Im on the play and this is my hand:
2 led
1 volcanic
1 fetch
1 swamp
1 gitaxian
1 rite of flame
SHOULD i HAVE MULLIGAN THIS ON THE PLAY?
I was not sure of this, I was missing business but starting I think any of this cards get me to play more magic and win more or less:
4 brainstorm
4 ponder
3 gitaxian
3 infernal
4 burning
3 duress
I think starting and having 2 draws for sure to find any of this plus that my hand was strong and had mana also to play the decay game was not so bad but I want opinions.
I gitaxian and draw island, he has wasteland, thorn of amethyst, sphere of resistance, exploration, tabernacle, punishing, bojuka, play delta and 2 leds. He starts bojuka exile my gitaxian and I draw a petal u,u play it and pass.
He plays sphere, then thorn and so. I end up making infernal for nauseam resolving it going to 6 lifes. burning for void snare, and decay. He wastelands a bit, I get to destroy a sphere and win the race vs his lonely punishing and a grove. But him having a second punishing fire in hand makes him win one turn before and its impossible for me to get rid of both spheres and i'm dead.
So top 4 only T_T no 3 wins in the weekend (I'm sad…) I get some prize money and later go to but it with my GF eating pasta and pizza in a cool restaurant.
On the deck:
Its really cool and its all foil, german FBB and what's not one or the other is japanese or even foil japanese. Pimp makes me happy.
But on the list:
-Basics are ok was never really, really bad but also never the best. It's a good plan to follow.
-I only won one game with empty the other game I did it I lost the race vs merfolks and never ever did it more. Also sided it out a lot. Its nice to have but if I never get to use it…
- I would have liked to wish one time for thoughtseize but ended not mattering but would have never liked to have the sb discard.
-Apart from the round vs canadian where Wasteland REALLY killed me I never got wasted and hurted.
-The void snare in the side is cool, but always when I wished for it I was dead anyway (also happened in other events)
-2 Pyroclasm where great
- If this stoneforge dig deck gets more played, using a second tendrils SB to main it is not the worst plan (there were like 6 in the 50 players).
- I never used massacre, but Its nice to have and out that cost only the burning wish mana for hatebears.
- There is more chalice, spheres and so every day I was thinkin on may be one of this card could be ok to just have more options that doesn't care about the +1 mana of spheres or chalice on one.
Hurkil recall
Chain of vapor
Meltdown
Thanks for reading and giving opinions and feedback, keep Storming.
@Pelicanudo: Look I topped with TES instead of and there you have it.
Played this deck in a multi-format invitational tournament.
Three rounds of Legacy for me (lost the quarters):
R1: UG Infect 2-1 (lost game 2 because he had a Fluster, I was digging for discard but he killed me turn 3)
R2: Jund 2-0 (good matchup, though perhaps I was a tad lucky game 2)
QF: OmniTell 0-2 (game 1 I keep a hand I perhaps should have mulled, he has permission / game 2 I play terribly and just give it away...)
List:
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Probe
4 Wish
3 Infernal
1 Ad Naus
4 LED
4 Petal
2 CMox
4 Dark Rit
4 Rite
2 Cabal Rit
4 Duress
3 Therapy
2 Gemstone Mine
2 Sea
2 Volcanic
1 Bayou
3 Delta
3 Misty
Side:
1 Tendrils
1 Empty
1 Past in Flames
1 Infernal
1 Void Snare
1 Therapy
1 Massacre
2 Chain of Vapor
3 Xantid Swarm
3 Abrupt Decay /15
Main deck feels really good like this. Ad Nauseam is super strong.
Main disadvantage of the list is me, the pilot, failing miserably in the QF...
Not sure whether TES was a good choice in the meta after the banning of Cruise though.
I was lucky not to encounter the many Miracles and BUG/RUG Delver decks there.
How do you guys see the meta post banning of Cruise? Which type of TES list should have the best chance, if TES is our choice at all?
We are basically back to Team America/Miraclea/Blade/S&T metagame like it was in September of last year except that some people durdle with more fringe decks until the dust settles. DRS, Hymn and Wasteland are back on the screen and those are all you should care about. Aside from S&T variants the metagame got slower and I feel prepared. The SB will possibly see a bigger changeQuote:
Originally Posted by Asthereal
Edit: I spoiler it here - Surgicals left the SB
Edit 2: have to read that report later, Rodrigo.
Hi everyone!
I followed this topic for a long time,and i played ANT for one year with good results.
Last week I decided to give a chance to TES in a small tournament (30 ppl),ending undefeated with a cabal ritual list with 2 sb Carpet.
IMHO cabal ritual wasn't very good,and i missed the main deck empty a couple of time.
In the next tournament I think I'll play this list:
4 Dark Ritual
4 Rite of Flame
4 Burning Wish
3 Infernal Tutor
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
1 Ad Nauseam
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
3 Duress
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Polluted Delta
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Chrome Mox
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Bayou
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 3 Abrupt Decay
SB: 3 Xantid Swarm
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Void Snare
SB: 1 Infernal Tutor
SB: 1 Pyroclasm
SB: 2 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 1 Massacre
But i have some questions for you:
Are basic lands so good?I don't want to color screw every game
Am I the only one who likes carpet of flowers?(especially in a non-basic manabase)
In a generic field is better to run 1 massacre or 1 grapeshot?
Thans to everyone who responds and sorry if my english is bad...:tongue:
@Carpet:
The deck is 40% mana anyways, so reserving SB slots for acceleration is nothing I consider an efficient use of space. Most Tempo list opperate on 1-2 lands, so the gain of Carpet is marginal and once Mirqcles Fetches up 2-3 Islands you have to bother with Clique and Counterbalance instead of mana.
@Massacre/Grapeshot
Grapeshot is really resource-hungry and can't economically deal with Thalia or Canonist, not to talk about Mother of Runes protecting either. It only really shines vs. Gaddock Teeg (and if boarded: versus Meddling Mage), while Massacre can wipe whole boards and take also Delver, SFM and TNNs with it once your opponent controls a Plains. These days I'm fine with boarding Decays against hatebears (Meddling. Mage in particular) and deal with the Rest via Massacre
I agree on Carpet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
If I were to run Grapeshot it would be over Pyroclasm number two, not Massacre. Grapeshot doubles as a secondary win-condition. I dislike the Abrupt Decay plan to deal with Meddling Mage as against UWr Stoneblade/Delver they pack Wasteland against our sole green source. I understand we can sit on fetch lands, but that isn't always an option.
So are 3 Infernal main + 1 side nowadays the standard? I suppose it has the advantage that you can win via Ad Nauseam if you have Wish plus 9 mana total (or if you can afford to wait another turn), which you would not be able to do otherwise. Though on the other hand, 4 Tutors main give you a higher chance to draw your most explosive Ad Nauseam combo hands. I've noticed that 4 Tutors main were pretty common pre-Cruise-ban, and now it seems like many people have moved away from it. Is there a particular reason for it?
I'm still pretty new to this deck and trying to understand it better.
The 4th Infernal in the SB became a thing (pre-TC Printing, Summer 2014) after we had to cut Dim.Ret. as a SB engine because of moving away from Silence (spring 2014), but wanted a wishable SB engine other than PIF. The habit to move an Infernal into the SB for slower games 2 & 3, gave Bryant the idea to make a virtue out of necessity and basically "preboard" (how I'm used to call it) the 4th Infernal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Izor
Because that 9 mana is a heavy burden and the "Wish->IT, pass the turn" is pretty revealing and risky, the gameplan was supported by the addition of Cabal Rituals for quite some time which got cut again recently as a result of being kinda slow and hurting the ANs.
Now, with the predictable return of S&T, Wasteland and Spell Pierce, I'm unsure if the plan is still valid. It's also to question, if a MB EtW, but 3 Infernals to pop out T1 Goblins for 6 mana only, is a logic conclusion. The 4 MB IT and the SB TC took too long to establish and had only about a month in the light before the ban and the Infernal moving back into the SB.
With that being said, be asured, that it's totally fine to dismiss the option of the SB Infernal as your standard Layout. I ground this on the fact that not only the 4th Infernal is a traditional slot for sideboarding actual solutions to matchups, but also for the explosiveness you mentioned. Game 1s you often win on the back of the decks explosiveness and your opponent inability to answer your decks general gameplan or finishers, so I personally see no reason to include clunky 9-mana-playlines for those games (postboard games remain the same with both MB Layouts anyways). My most common Wish-target for quick game 1s is EtW and for slower games there is PIF or the natural chain ending with Wish->ToA.
@lemnear-Bryant:
Thanks for your reply!So now how are your sideboards composed?And do you side in the 4th Infernal tutor against alle the non-miracles,non-stoneblade decks?
Also thank you for all your work in this thread,and for your patience!
There is a SB guide in the opening post that should answer your question from Bryant's point of view. As I personally run no Moxen but the 4th Infernal main, my boarding in Detail is a bit different, but the idea behind remains the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arguru
I'm sure you can figure out the patterns behind the boarding (of cards of a particular category to move out/in) with the help of the guide. (Example: against counterbalance you can cut "speed" in Form of Moxen for "permanent removal" in Form of Decays)
Edit: you're welcome
Hi folks,
This is my current list:
//Card Draw and Selection (12)
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
//Tutors (7)
4 Burning Wish
3 Infernal Tutor
//Targets (2)
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Empty the Warrens
//Disruption (7)
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Duress
//Ritual Mana (8)
4 Dark Ritual
4 Rite of Flame
//Artifact Mana (11)
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
3 Chrome Mox
//Land (13)
2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
1 Island
1 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Misty Rainforest
//Sideboard (15)
1 Bayou
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Xantid Swarm
2 Pyroclasm
1 Massacre
1 Void Snare
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Past in Flames
1 Infernal Tutor
Notes
I think Carpet of Flowers is trash. Every time I convince myself to test it again, I'm disappointed.
While I still stand behind my comment above on Carpet of Flowers - I admit I would like to have a little more powerful mana production to fight the rise of soft-counterspells I expect now that 'traditional' Delver is back. The only option to accomplish this that I can see, is finding room for the 2 Cabal Ritual again. This also works well with the sideboard Infernal Tutor and the fact that I expect a reduction in graveyard hate now that Treasure Cruise is gone. I'm fine with cutting the 3rd Chrome Mox for this, but I don't want to cut a discard spell (or anything else) for the other.
I'm on the fence about the basics, but I'm going to play with them a little longer before coming to a conclusion. I don't find Wasteland that much of an issue with so many initial mana sources (especially since we have more fetches now), so the basics seem unnecessary. That said, the cost of playing them is basically just 1 sideboard slot, as I think people value red too highly in this deck anyway - we actually use it very little, so the -1 red source I don't feel is much of a detriment. I don't think it's a big deal either way.
Your thoughts are appreciated!
For reference, freeing up this slot by using duals instead of basics would allow the moving of a discard spell to the sideboard for Burning Wish for another main-deck slot. While I think outright cutting a discard spell to 6 is unacceptable, I feel this is ok and would give enough room to make the Cabal Ritual change I mentioned above. Here's a list of how this would look:Quote:
Originally Posted by vercadium
//Card Draw and Selection (12)
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
//Tutors (7)
4 Burning Wish
3 Infernal Tutor
//Targets (2)
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Empty the Warrens
//Disruption (6)
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Duress
//Ritual Mana (10)
4 Dark Ritual
4 Rite of Flame
2 Cabal Ritual
//Artifact Mana (10)
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
2 Chrome Mox
//Land (13)
2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
1 Bayou
3 Polluted Delta
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Misty Rainforest
//Sideboard (15)
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Xantid Swarm
2 Pyroclasm
1 Massacre
1 Void Snare
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Past in Flames
1 Infernal Tutor
@Togores
First of all:
Congratulations man!
it seems that you are luckier than me when facing miracles... as said, it seems that every miracles player makes somehow misplays vs TES...
Looking at your match up vs Round 5 UWR Stoneforge control, well I can't understand why the hell he countered that I.T. having you more cards in hand... this is what happened right? I'm not advocated to make these kind of plays..., I'd like to know how is the thinking process of this person... maybe you could explain this Togores... you say even it is a good player... sure...
Game two I have a mediocre hand of:
2 Burnign wish
Bayou
Gitaxian
2 decay
Xantid
SHOULD i HAVE MULLIGAN THIS ON THE DRAW?
I personally haven't mulligan, because I have a big Karma, but looks like a mull.
top 4 Lands
game one I know my opponent has more or less no options so I keep a hand on the draw of:
2 led
1 burning
1 infernal
1 gitaxian
2 dark ritual
SHOULD i HAVE MULLIGAN THIS ON THE DRAW?
Absolutly not.
Now after reaching Top with TES, say which deck is funnier TES or ANT.
EDIT: How can you loose to Lands...
I have 2 Goals for this LML: Win a torunament with TES (not Top8) and Top8 with Solidarity, I'll see if this is possible as I don't think I have much spare time to invest in MTG...
EDIT: Vercadium:
I tested Nedles mainly as an option to handle Miracles and this is what I concluded:
Xantid is better vs Miracles and S&T and Reanimator
OR if you plan to play Nedles they are good in a number >2, then 3 or 4.
At least here in the US, there's far more Omni at the moment than Sneak and Show. The fact that Containment Priest exists plus the rest of the Death and Taxes package has really driven away Sneak Attack variants.Quote:
Originally Posted by vercadium
I'm not against you on Carpet.
The extra 'Clasm isn't really for the Swords to Plowshares/Terminus match-ups as Bayou, Decays (3) and Xantids (2-3) are typically enough as we're almost over sideboarding at that point.
I've really liked the basics so far and I agree that there's an over emphasis on the importance of an early red source as we really only use it on the combo turn.
I didn't think Pyroclasm was for the Miracles match-up - I just meant that choosing the 3rd Swarm + X seemed worse than 2 Pithing Needle. But this misunderstanding no longer matters; I'm not gonna lie - I completely forgot about Containment Priest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Cook
While I've seen an uptake in Sneak-Show and Reanimator since the banning, I agree with you that the Priest will probably shut them out fairly quickly once people adapt to this uptake.
This ultimately changes my mind regarding Pithing Needle, as while I still think the card is noticeably better than Xantid Swarm against Miracles, if we don't need to worry about Griselbrand, Xantid Swarm is much better elsewhere. Moreover, 2 Xantid Swarm + 3 Decay + 1 Bayou + 2 Pithing Needle would indeed be far too much against Miracles.
I'll be editing my post/list to match this realisation. The 3rd Xantid Swarm is obviously a given in that case, but I could actually live without the 2nd Pyroclasm, even if it seems to be the best option for now.
As I mentioned, I don't think -1 red source matters, but -1 green source in a 3 Decay/3 Swarm deck could do. I'm about 50/50 at this point and it really comes down to whether I'd rather be less likely to be screwed on green and gain a sideboard slot, or be able to play around Wasteland.
In the last events played with tes i only used in 8 rounds 2 times the md emtpy (one i lost) and in the other 5 rounds event i also only used it once. It got sided out almost ever and was not good.
Im thinking of cutting it and a mox for 2 cabals. Its too much crazyness? I end up wining with nauseam always or pif. Or natural storm.
@pelicanudo
Its was jorge varela the brother of alberto. He is good player but was on standstill long time. At the end of the match he told me that if he let me the ritual resolve i would be able to crack led in response to infernal and because it mana dont give him the chance to respond.
My plan was that the ritual in response gave him a weird idea of why i do a such rare thing. Ritual ritual ritual infenal response ritual. Worked out well as you know. Also my for of playing being sure i would still won and goig for itin this imposible game made all my trick far better.
Cabal Ritual is just so slow. I was really on the fence about the card for a long time, but I know where I stand now, in TES it's hot trash as we're trying to be a fast deck with a card that's inherently sluggish.