Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
I don't know about you guys, but in my experience I used to go more often to the "8 mana => BW => IT => EtW" route to get 2 extra goblins than to get AN. It all depends on the type of deck you are facing (speed, removal, blockers), but the IT on the sideboard sounds to me like a response to a slower field, where you can make a 12/14 goblins combo out to win in a 2 turn clock.
If my field was faster I would play IT main so that I had more chance to AN with 7 mana and win on the spot (with some risk of "fizzling" of course).
Also, maybe I was just wrong in my assumption that those 2 extra goblins in those games were worth having the 4th IT on the SB. Still, it has worked well for me and I haven't had problems getting tutors to combo off with 1 less in the MD. For a slower meta, sounds like a good move to me.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ThiefSlayer
I don't know about you guys, but in my experience I used to go more often to the "8 mana => BW => IT => EtW" route to get 2 extra goblins than to get AN. It all depends on the type of deck you are facing (speed, removal, blockers), but the IT on the sideboard sounds to me like a response to a slower field, where you can make a 12/14 goblins combo out to win in a 2 turn clock.
If my field was faster I would play IT main so that I had more chance to AN with 7 mana and win on the spot (with some risk of "fizzling" of course).
Also, maybe I was just wrong in my assumption that those 2 extra goblins in those games were worth having the 4th IT on the SB. Still, it has worked well for me and I haven't had problems getting tutors to combo off with 1 less in the MD. For a slower meta, sounds like a good move to me.
If my life drops fast, I'm also used to take the 8-mana exit via IT->BW->EtW if the natural chain or PIF doesn't cut it. I'm not convinced, I want to run a 4cc card Main (Ad Nauseam!) and cut an Infernal (less 7-mana AN) to just have the option to generate two extra Goblins via Wish (hellbent given in this scenario). For me the price is too high.
I agree on your Observation about the Connection of SB Infernal and slow metagame. The question I dare to ask is how you would sort stuff like Wasteland/Pierce/Hymn? Are those "fast" cards/strategies to threaten your gameplan?
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lemnear
If my life drops fast, I'm also used to take the 8-mana exit via IT->BW->EtW if the natural chain or PIF doesn't cut it. I'm not convinced, I want to run a 4cc card Main (Ad Nauseam!) and cut an Infernal (less 7-mana AN) to just have the option to generate two extra Goblins via Wish (hellbent given in this scenario). For me the price is too high.
I agree on your Observation about the Connection of SB Infernal and slow metagame. The question I dare to ask is how you would sort stuff like Wasteland/Pierce/Hymn? Are those "fast" cards/strategies to threaten your gameplan?
The difference is you don't always have Infernal Tutor to start with. Your list is also not built to maximize Empty the Warrens since you fail to run Chrome Mox, for everyone else's list, the Empty can come down sooner which makes it more effective against these fast strategies.
We're already beginning to solve the Wasteland issue by running a pair of basics, Pierce is rarely more than a two of in most lists and Hymn is difficult for any storm list. But half of the beauty of Chrome Mox is winning before they can cast their difficult spells. I'd like to note that Shardless BUG and Deathblade are making tremendous swings back into the metagame - these are slow decks.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bryant Cook
The difference is you don't always have Infernal Tutor to start with. Your list is also not built to maximize Empty the Warrens since you fail to run Chrome Mox, for everyone else's list, the Empty can come down sooner which makes it more effective against these fast strategies.
We're already beginning to solve the Wasteland issue by running a pair of basics, Pierce is rarely more than a two of in most lists and Hymn is difficult for any storm list. But half of the beauty of Chrome Mox is winning before they can cast their difficult spells. I'd like to note that Shardless BUG and Deathblade are making tremendous swings back into the metagame - these are slow decks.
I agree on my list not maximizing EtW. It's a fact.
I still have a headache over Rodrigos match against Canadian, my friend. He was choked twice on red mana and the Basics did nothing to swing the game in his favor. I feared we would see this Happening.
Yeah, Discard+counter(+hatebears) is coming back, even if not that powerful as S&T does post-DTT. I have still memories of Golgari Charms/Zealous Persecution/Toxic Deluge/etc. out of those decks Sideboards (and mainboards in case of Shardless and Deluge) to not consider an early EtW an Auto-win in at least 2 of the 3 games. Their clock however is so slow that sometimes even turn 3 EtWs can get the distance if you pick appart their hand.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
We've been talking a lot about Cabal Ritual, I like this card a lot and have been running 2 main since pre NJ. The card can be situationally weak, often its +b, +1 storm (a mediocre rite), but it's a card that lets you come from behind and set up sweet ad nauseums. Plus you can cast it while already holding priority to infernal, still hold and crack LED to get threshold to trigger. This also makes getting 9+ mana for BW->IF->AN a lot easier.
The fact it dodges chalice on 1 or a counterbalance on 1 is insanely helpful in some game 1s.
Also, if they're not familiar with your deck or the differences between TES and ANT, showing Cabal Ritual g1 often attracts irrelevant graveyard hate post board. I love nothing more than my opponent gleefully tapping out for a RIP turn 2.
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Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lemnear
I still have a headache over Rodrigos match against Canadian, my friend. He was choked twice on red mana and the Basics did nothing to swing the game in his favor. I feared we would see this Happening.
We're also under the assumption that he played perfectly and didn't color screw himself by unnecessarily searching for lands he couldn't afford to get. I read his report, he made some questionable keeps and misplays. I can't be convinced by one other person who's shown poor examples that basics are bad. I've run them in three events now on top of testing and they've been great.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lemnear
Yeah, Discard+counter(+hatebears) is coming back, even if not that powerful as S&T does post-DTT. I have still memories of Golgari Charms/Zealous Persecution/Toxic Deluge/etc. out of those decks Sideboards (and mainboards in case of Shardless and Deluge) to not consider an early EtW an Auto-win in at least 2 of the 3 games. Their clock however is so slow that sometimes even turn 3 EtWs can get the distance if you pick appart their hand.
Sure, if you're playing against black decks feel free to side out Empty. Otherwise, accept the fact that they have 1-2 answers and use your discard wisely.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
redhamjack
We've been talking a lot about Cabal Ritual, I like this card a lot and have been running 2 main since pre NJ. The card can be situationally weak, often its +b, +1 storm (a mediocre rite), but it's a card that lets you come from behind and set up sweet ad nauseums. Plus you can cast it while already holding priority to infernal, still hold and crack LED to get threshold to trigger. This also makes getting 9+ mana for BW->IF->AN a lot easier.
The fact it dodges chalice on 1 or a counterbalance on 1 is insanely helpful in some game 1s.
Also, if they're not familiar with your deck or the differences between TES and ANT, showing Cabal Ritual g1 often attracts irrelevant graveyard hate post board. I love nothing more than my opponent gleefully tapping out for a RIP turn 2.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You consider your opponent a defenseless goldfish here. Coming back "from behind" with Ad Nauseam after your opponent "poked" you with Tarmogoyf for turns? Casting BW->IT->AN against Wasteland/Hymn/Pierce/Daze? You argue with CR manaburst at the same time you hint at dead 'yard-hate, which does not make sense because RIP (people being it in regardless to cut RoFs and PIF) renders CR into a 2cc RoF (how bad are 2cc initial cost!).
CR+AN is only a valid combination against slow and reactionary decks, because the manaboost makes up for spend discard to overcome defense with enough time to setup T.hold and nothing attacking your life total. This is a small market ;)
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Ok, asume you fetch for island or for Swamp or even for Both!, if the RUG opp. destroyes the rest of lands, how are you supposed to win the match up by just having a lonely Island or Swamp? - remember you play 13 lands not 15 as ANT!
When facing to RUG or Team America, having a basic is not what made me won those match ups, the real issue is having A Flexible Land - lets say CoB, Gemstone or even U.Sea.
I'm used to win RUG or T.A. match ups with uniquely 1 land (rest are destroyed) and sure that the land that makes me win is generally U. Sea or Gemstone.
if the plan is to stabilize with 1 or 2 basics and next win, the game route is quite different - it is more the ANT route.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pelikanudo
Ok, asume you fetch for island or for Swamp or even for Both!, if the RUG opp. destroyes the rest of lands, how are you supposed to win the match up by just having a lonely Island or Swamp? - remember you play 13 lands not 15 as ANT!
When facing to RUG or Team America, having a basic is not what made me won those match ups, the real issue is having A Flexible Land - lets say CoB, Gemstone or even U.Sea.
I'm used to win RUG or T.A. match ups with uniquely 1 land (rest are destroyed) and sure that the land that makes me win is generally U. Sea or Gemstone.
if the plan is to stabilize with 1 or 2 basics and next win, the game route is quite different - it is more the ANT route.
Meh. The plan is obviously to fetch/drop a Volcanic the turn you need the red mana to combo and with Swamp + Volcanic you an cast all spells in your Maindeck if you have to operate on two lands. You don't mindlessly fetch both Basics just for the sake of being Wasteland-proof and struggle to get the Volcanic into play against Stifle and the odds to find one or a fetch with about 4/13 lands already drawn out of your library at that point.
My issue is that the Basic Island has such low value in TES unlike in ANT which often runs Preordain, as you gain barely anything by just chaining cantrips like a Champ, so I don't see why I should include a stable foundation for "just" plowing through my Library.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lemnear
Meh. The plan is obviously to fetch/drop a Volcanic the turn you need the red mana to combo and with Swamp + Volcanic you an cast all spells in your Maindeck if you have to operate on two lands. You don't mindlessly fetch both Basics just for the sake of being Wasteland-proof and struggle to get the Volcanic into play against Stifle and the odds to find one or a fetch with about 4/13 lands already drawn out of your library at that point.
My issue is that the Basic Island has such low value in TES unlike in ANT which often runs Preordain, as you gain barely anything by just chaining cantrips like a Champ, so I don't see why I should include a stable foundation for "just" plowing through my Library.
Well that's exact the point:
for that scenario you fetch First for nonbasic (which will be likely destroyed...), you'll never want to fetch first for Swamp OR Island... and of course if that fetch is your unique land in hand.
Also playing so many fetches you also are in a por position against Stifle, I play 4.
I think you and me at least agree.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pelikanudo
Well that's exact the point:
for that scenario you fetch First for nonbasic (which will be likely destroyed...), you'll never want to fetch first for Swamp OR Island... and of course if that fetch is your unique land in hand.
Also playing so many fetches you also are in a por position against Stifle, I play 4.
I think you and me at least agree.
You fetch for Swamp first, cast Discard, untap, fetch Volcanic, combo ... at least under ideal circumstances. If you have to cantrip for 1-2 turns according to your hand, you get the Island and fix your combo mana with Moxen/Petals/Land#2. that's the whole fundamental idea behind the Basics. I have no clue why you claim that you never want to fetch them first. That's their whole fucking purpose.
Playing less Fetches and ergo less shuffle effects for Ponder/Brainstorm and also less card-/mana-selection just because of Stifle is no adequate response. You should not battle Stifle by making your deck worse but by reducing the impact it has on the game development. I don't want to see a fetch stifled or a dual wasted and then find myself having to play the Rest off my cantrips/discard off a depleting Gemstone Mine which your opponent can basically sit out in grindy games, so I fear we do not agree on how to build a manabase.
My only topic is the Island, because it does not do enough for my taste to fuel the combo.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Firstly, I've said this before and i'll reiterate - I'd rather have access to a virtual 7 Infernal Tutor than 4. To me, that's the main reason to have it in the sideboard. In many situations, Burning Wish can be a poor draw - in those cases, or when you have multiple copies of Burning Wish, being able to convert those into an Infernal Tutor is invaluable. Being able to play around Surgical Extraction more easily, generate additional goblins, create loops for storm count easier... these are just bonuses.
Secondly, I think people exaggerate the difficultly of hitting 9 mana in TES. Admittedly, the possibility of a Spell Pierce heavy meta-game does change the equation somewhat, but even in that scenario, the important thing is that no one is making you take that line if you think/know they have one.
I also disagree with the premise that the meta-game is now a 'fast' one. If anything, it's slower with UR Delvers decline and BUG's resurgence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lemnear
My issue is that the Basic Island has such low value in TES unlike in ANT which often runs Preordain, as you gain barely anything by just chaining cantrips like a Champ, so I don't see why I should include a stable foundation for "just" plowing through my Library.
On a different topic, while I agree with Lemnear that we don't benefit from cantrips as much as ANT, which in turn reduces the value of basics, I think not being down a land or two by your combo turn is still desirable and goes a long way to successfully playing through soft counterspells like Spell Pierce.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lemnear
If my life drops fast, I'm also used to take the 8-mana exit via IT->BW->EtW if the natural chain or PIF doesn't cut it. I'm not convinced, I want to run a 4cc card Main (Ad Nauseam!) and cut an Infernal (less 7-mana AN) to just have the option to generate two extra Goblins via Wish (hellbent given in this scenario). For me the price is too high.
I agree on your Observation about the Connection of SB Infernal and slow metagame. The question I dare to ask is how you would sort stuff like Wasteland/Pierce/Hymn? Are those "fast" cards/strategies to threaten your gameplan?
And that's the problem about my experience, my meta is not very reliable as the field isn't that diversified. Hymn just teared me apart everytime I played against it, and as I started storming about 2 months ago, I haven't had a lot of experience against wasteland decks, and Spell Pierce is really bad to play against. Against spell pierce decks, usually the IT on the SB is useless, as it probably is for the other 2 examples you gave.
The problem about that exit via IT->BW-> EtW is that if you get BW in hand you can only BW-> EtW with 2 mana left (if you are still going for the EtW route anyway), which lowers your possibility of storm count. 2 extra goblins make a lot of difference as (not counting sweepers) 10 goblins against 2 blocking creatures is really risky, while 12 goblins is almost G_G if the opponent doesn't draw extra blockers. While doing a low-count EtW, those 2 goblins make a lot of difference, and in my meta I'm going more the goblin route than I've ever heard of someone doing (most games, actually). I really don't know if that's a good idea to put IT on the SB in a meta where EtW isn't that good of an option.
The 4cc card main has been very kind to me, as it enables rare T1 goblin combos without tutor (7/60 chance to get it in the initial hand), and you can also IT for it and BW->IT for it (in this third situation, the 4cc card main only enables you 1 extra storm count, as you could just BW-> EtW). I'm very used to have good results in the EtW path here, but I admit that I lack of knowledge of more diversified metas to give you more useful comments about big tournaments discussion.
The regional legacy circuit around here starts on february, where there are about 80 different people playing it, with about 40 people playing in each event. Meanwhile, I can only talk about experiences in a non-diversified meta where EtW really rocks, so I guess I will just read your hints about this marvelous deck and when I get a chance to test it in the wild I'll come back!
By the way, thank you guys for all the insights you've been giving! The deepness of your thoughts has been essential for my improvement as not only a storm player, but a better magic overall player!
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lemnear
You fetch for Swamp first, cast Discard, untap, fetch Volcanic, combo ... at least under ideal circumstances.
Yes ideal circumstances - I play 12 lands so I don't expect to have many lands in hand I would hate if my lonely land is an Island and same applicable for Swamp.
If you have to cantrip for 1-2 turns according to your hand, you get the Island and fix your combo mana with Moxen/Petals/Land#2. that's the whole fundamental idea behind the Basics. I have no clue why you claim that you never want to fetch them first. That's their whole fucking purpose.
Well with Moxen/Petals/Land#2, Land #2 is supposed to be in your hand or to be drawn?
Playing less Fetches and ergo less shuffle effects for Ponder/Brainstorm and also less card-/mana-selection just because of Stifle is no adequate response. You should not battle Stifle by making your deck worse but by reducing the impact it has on the game development. I don't want to see a fetch stifled or a dual wasted and then find myself having to play the Rest off my cantrips/discard off a depleting Gemstone Mine which your opponent can basically sit out in grindy games, so I fear we do not agree on how to build a manabase.
As said, believe it or not, Gemstone saved my ass as unique Land vs several Tempo Archetypes, the only thing I can explain is the following:
How the game vs these archetypes varies, but mainly is:
- I ponder or Discard
- Opp destroyes land
- I play land and Discard or Ponder
- Opp. can or not destroys my land
My main goal is to have a land and that this land produces most of the colors I use to going on doing my stuff: ToPonder, Discarding or Comboing
I hope my thinkings are clear.
nothing happens if we don't agree
My only topic is the Island, because it does not do enough for my taste to fuel the combo.
Well Island is the worst thing you can see in a TES build, I could compare it to when I tested a single Grim Tutor main....
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
vercadium
Firstly, I've said this before and i'll reiterate - I'd rather have access to a virtual 7 Infernal Tutor than 4. To me, that's the main reason to have it in the sideboard. In many situations, Burning Wish can be a poor draw - in those cases, or when you have multiple copies of Burning Wish, being able to convert those into an Infernal Tutor is invaluable. Being able to play around Surgical Extraction more easily, generate additional goblins, create loops for storm count easier... these are just bonuses.
How does it help you to convert two Wishes into a Wish and an Infernal? You still need the LED for hellbent if AN is your goal not to talk about exposing yourself to discard if you pass the turn here. The SB Infernal just does not solve the double Wish scenario. I don't know, why you care about a fringe card like Surgical, but not about all the returning Tempo options. I think we should.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
vercadium
Secondly, I think people exaggerate the difficultly of hitting 9 mana in TES. Admittedly, the possibility of a Spell Pierce heavy meta-game does change the equation somewhat, but even in that scenario, the important thing is that no one is making you take that line if you think/know they have one.
Pierce/Wasteland/Thoughtseize/Hymn/etc. change the Dynamic completely. Just think about how many of your RoF / DR / LEDs you need to find before the mentioned cards wreck your 9-mana plan. If you follow that line of thought and have stuff like Pierce or Daze in the back of your head, you'll head for a casual EtW anyways in those game 1's (and possibly also for the whole match). Ergo, if I have serious doubts about executing the plan either caused by opposing disruption or my decks inability to gather 9 mana quickly I see no reason to weaken my game 1 burst.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
vercadium
I also disagree with the premise that the meta-game is now a 'fast' one. If anything, it's slower with UR Delvers decline and BUG's resurgence.
When I'm talking about "fast" I don't have the pure damage dealing capacity in mind but the crucial turn our opponent is able to cast a gamebreaker and/or cut us off of certain crucial playlines. This CAN be pure damage in terms of AN, but in my books also stuff like Hymn, Thalia or Counterbalance fall into this category. You can't durdle game 1 against Miracles, hope Hymn isn't devastating or that you can break out from Thalia and that's why I want the maximum of flexible burst-enablers maindeck. (I know that by running EtW main the total number remains constant but it's not quite flexible aside the cmc issue I have in my build ;D)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
vercadium
On a different topic, while I agree with Lemnear that we don't benefit from cantrips as much as ANT, which in turn reduces the value of basics, I think not being down a land or two by your combo turn is still desirable and goes a long way to successfully playing through soft counterspells like Spell Pierce.
We talk here about a generic mana for your combo turn first and foremost in case of the basic Island, which basically also potentially limits your general color access throughout the game which is exceptional annoying if you needlessly play around Wasteland with it because of fear. For generic mana to play around softcounters I neither like the Island nor the Moxen. It's not that your opponents can't shuffle Wastelands away or can't use them to cast Tarmogoyfs, so you don't actually create cardadvantage
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lemnear
Meh. The plan is obviously to fetch/drop a Volcanic the turn you need the red mana to combo and with Swamp + Volcanic you an cast all spells in your Maindeck if you have to operate on two lands. You don't mindlessly fetch both Basics just for the sake of being Wasteland-proof and struggle to get the Volcanic into play against Stifle and the odds to find one or a fetch with about 4/13 lands already drawn out of your library at that point.
My issue is that the Basic Island has such low value in TES unlike in ANT which often runs Preordain, as you gain barely anything by just chaining cantrips like a Champ, so I don't see why I should include a stable foundation for "just" plowing through my Library.
My biggest issue with basics was the island.
We play 4 blue sources plus island. And we board some cantrips out. And we only have 3 black. Where we may be casting duress and ritual from diferent sources. When playing ir feel to me i had to much blue and low black. More playing against control without wasteland. Where i only need one volc and a bayou plus swamp to play. So i sidded out island for bayou. So i had. 4 black. 4 blue and 2 red sources.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Togores
My biggest issue with basics was the island.
We play 4 blue sources plus island. And we board some cantrips out. And we only have 3 black. Where we may be casting duress and ritual from diferent sources. When playing ir feel to me i had to much blue and low black. More playing against control without wasteland. Where i only need one volc and a bayou plus swamp to play. So i sidded out island for bayou. So i had. 4 black. 4 blue and 2 red sources.
I admit I ever watched my manabase as a two level construct. Level 1 - Get into the game with Cantrips and Discard; Level 2 - Provide enough initial (colored) mana to combo around Daze/Wasteland; so I never really cared about if I run 3 or 4 of the same colored IMS as long as I'm able to grab the one I want.
@Pelikanudo
I suspect the whole issue here isn't really about color, but about not finding the second and third IMS against Wasteland/Daze, could that be? I mean, Bryant can go up to 14 lands postboard against Tempo if he brings in the Bayou with 13 MB lands and by that even support the Basics without totally screwing himself.
For me it's totally off to discuss Basics alongside Gemstones and only 12 lands total (hope we did not) because of the sheer lack of quantity of mana and the reduced cardselection to actually find more IMS'.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
I do like the idea of basics in order to guarantee that my potentially only land doesn't get Wasted. Though, I haven't liked the Island so far. Turn 1 Fetch for Swamp into Discard spell, turn two fetch for Volc and go off with both B ad R available is strong. But turn 1 Fetch for Island into Cantrip is a problematic play because you cannot have two lands in play on turn two that produce RB, which can be crucial. I don't always have the Petal to help me out.
I'll probably test with a Swamp as my only Basic. The Land base I'm thinking of is:
2 Usea
2 Volc
4 Polluted
4 Mire
1 Swamp
SB: 1 Bayou
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
I think you guys are really under selling island. First turn Cantrip into second turn Sea or Volcanic into the appropriate ritual and then Lion's Eye Diamond often suffices, I rarely ever have trouble with my mana as red isn't needed until the combo turn. Here's the thing about the red mana, sometimes it's not needed until post-Ad Nauseam.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Izor
I do like the idea of basics in order to guarantee that my potentially only land doesn't get Wasted. Though, I haven't liked the Island so far. Turn 1 Fetch for Swamp into Discard spell, turn two fetch for Volc and go off with both B ad R available is strong. But turn 1 Fetch for Island into Cantrip is a problematic play because you cannot have two lands in play on turn two that produce RB, which can be crucial. I don't always have the Petal to help me out
When don't do it? It's exactly what I was talking about before: don't fetch the Island if you need to produce BR turn 2 just because you fear that your opponent POTENTIALLY has a Wasteland.
Having an Island or a Swamp instead of a fetch in your opener is where the problem is, not because of wrong fetch-decisions.
Edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bryant Cook
I think you guys are really under selling island. First turn Cantrip into second turn Sea or Volcanic into the appropriate ritual and then Lion's Eye Diamond often suffices, I rarely ever have trouble with my mana as red isn't needed until the combo turn. Here's the thing about the red mana, sometimes it's not needed until post-Ad Nauseam.
Having a combination of RoF/IT or DR/BW in your hand but only Island+x as your initial mana for a turn 1/2/3 combo is awkward. Not necessarily having a Wish/IT and the appropiate acceleration is a problem which ANT has not
Edit 2: this means that if you decide to start with the Island you likely need two more IMS in a reasonable timeframe against opposing disruption like Stifle.
