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Does Confusion in the Ranks trigger off of a Show and Tell?
Of course, Confusion in the Ranks requires you to have a creature in play to make the swap. It would be funny to sneak in an Emrakul, switch with Confusion, and then sneak in a Grisel to take back Emrakul.
Gilded Drake or Ensnaring Bridge are probably both better options.
Regarding Counterbalance, REB/PB are strong. Your best bet is to keep it off the board (not to state the obvious).
I'd definitely up the land by 1-2. I played the deck a number of times with 18 lands and got mana screwed a lot. I would definitely cut a price from the board as 3 should be enough as some decks try to play around it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ertai87
If you're having problems with sneak/show, that may be the fact that red blasts are not in your sideboard. I'd definitely go with at least two red blast or maybe even a Flusterstorm. With 4 pierces main and incoming red blasts in your board, both your countertop and sneak mathup should improve. I'd cut the confusions completely, although I havent tested it, I think 2 gilded drake in the board will do.
My sideboard that I've had a lot of success with is:
2 Smash to smithereens
3 sulfuric vortex
2 red elemental blast
4 submerge
3 surgical extraction
1 Gilded drake
You have forked bolt in main and only 3 chain lightnings. Since forked bolt can kind of deal with lingering souls, I'd cut sulfur elementals completely. I'd up your chain lightning to 4 as UR is a clock deck and I'd rather chain lightning to the face then try to fork bolt critters. Sulfuric vortex single-handedly dominates all Control matchups especially Miracle since your creatures are not gonna get there when plow, paths, and snapcasters come in.
Congrats on your finishes. What were your matchups at the GPT at HairyT and what's your general gameplan against RuG?
I'm posting from my iPod, so you might have to forgive me some errors. Anyway:
@Water_Wizard: It most certainly does trigger. I was thinking of Bridge, but Bridge only makes me not lose; it doesnt make me win, particularly against a Showed Griselbrand. It's also difficult to cast, although, I suppose, it's easier than Confusion, so maybe I'll try it. I don't like a spell-based solution to Sneak/Show due to the fact that they pack DI countermagic, and particularly Red Blasts that can only hit Show (I find Sneak is the more difficult side to beat) and can be redirected by Misdirection. I'll probably try testing Bridges though.
As for Countertop, you're going to have to do a bit of work to convince me that a 1-mana spell is what you want to do to break a countertop lock. I suppose the counterspell side of it is fine, though.
@Sunday: I agree with you that Chain Lightning is probably more effective than Forked Bolt much of the time, but when Forked Bolt is good it's simply amazing. It's invaluable against Maverick, not awful vs Stoneblade, and reasonable in the mirror and pseudo-mirror (RUG). Against Sneak/Show and Countertop, it's certainly awful, but it's so good so much of the time.
The Confusions will be coming out. Confusion is my favourite card in Magic, so I was excited to play it, but I probably gave it a bit too much lenience when it turned out to be just bad. I came here seeking opinions on what to play instead.
At the GPT, my matches were:
Rd 1: Bant Maverick, UD (0-0-1)
Rd 2: Doomsday, won in Extra Turn 5 (1-0-1)
Rd 3: BW Stoneforge (2-0-1)
Rd 4: RUG Zoo (3-0-1)
Rd 5: RUG Delver, ID (3-0-2)
Quarters: Bant Maverick (different player from Rd 1)
Semis: Dredge
Finals: RUG Delver (same player as Rd 5).
At Detroit:
Rd 1: Elves. Opp made T16 (0-1)
Rd 2: Enchantress. Opp got a game loss in game 2 after losing game 1 (1-1)
Rd 3: Reanimator (2-1)
Rd 4: MUD (3-1)
Rd 5: Goblins (4-1)
Rd 6: Sneak/Show (4-2)
Rd 7: Miracle Control (4-3)
Rd 8: Food Chain (5-3)
It's probably worthy of note that I'm pretty sure my Rd 3 and Rd 5 opponents misplayed themselves into a loss, rather than me winning based on play sequencing or whatever (I suppose play skill counts for something, but it's worth noting so that we don't skew our results).
As you can see, I haven't played a heck of a lot against RUG. When I do, though, my plan is to cast as many Prices as I can while trying not to die to their Goyfs. I generally put myself into Abyss mode around turn 5-6 and win around turn 8-9 off of a critical mass of burn. Other times, I flip a Delver and just get to ignore whatever they're doing, since I can bolt their Delvers and race the rest of their game plan.
Countertop is won by an early aggressive creature, backed up by countermagic (conveniently the strengths of our deck), I actually side in my sulfur elementals and sulfiric vortex'es which are quite hard for them to counter/top cause of the cmc 3 (and splic second so only a blind counterbalance trigger can counter it (I think)).Quote:
Originally Posted by Ertai87
Mana starve em with spellpierces so they can't use their top is always effective to.
www.roxiecards.comQuote:
Originally Posted by Water_Wizard
Is discussion of splashes allowed in this thread? If so, I think this deck looks AMAZING:
http://thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.ph...6&iddeck=62943
It makes use of all the most efficient spells and creatures in the format, with blazing speed. What do you guys think?
Take a look at this thread: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...u-x-Blue-SlighQuote:
Originally Posted by Mirrislegend
my newest
4 delver of secrets
4 goblin guide
4 vexing devil
3 grim lavamancer
4 brainstorm
3 ponder
3 spell pierce
3 daze
3 price of progress
4 lightning Bolt
4 chain lightning
4 rift bolt
3 Volcanic Island
3 Mountain
1 Island
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
1 Misty Rainforest
17 land and 0 force make up for the card disadvantage of Vexing Devil. 43 live cards leaves your deck with alot of gas, so Devil fits right at home in the "fow"less build, which can't make the card advantage back with snapcaster. When you have 12 Bolts to target their life total, and 3 prices as "finishers", you can and almost always should chuck burn at their face nonstop, which makes the 4 damage for 1 all the more impressive. The drawbacks of the Devil become lesser and lesser with increased burn density. By trimming the land count all the way to 17, we can pack 7 cantrips to great success, play all 1 drop creatures and spells, and lessen the stress of Daze on the curve of the deck. Pierce and Daze give you a chance game 1 against combo, and I'll likely play 4x Force SB. Consistency is what this deck should be founded on, imo. Thunderous Wrath and Fireblast just haven't been reliable enough for me. Cheers!
I like your idea; but for my meta I do need FOW still, bigtime; as Combo is too prevalent to allow them a Turn1-3 kill as I try to burn them out. I need a lrager Control and I am still running 17 blue to make of fule for the FoW's I have and need.
Cheers
This list looks quite bad. A few things:Quote:
Originally Posted by troopatroop
1) Devil looks good, but actually does nothing. Against white decks, they can simply Plow it (or Mom-block it, which is worse). Against Black control (BUG), they have a bunch of removal for it. The mirror has removal for it as well. The only time it does anything is against combo, and even there it doesn't do much.
2) Rift Bolt over Forked Bolt? Not all the burn in the deck needs to go to the face. I'd play Shard Volley before Rift Bolt, first of all, due to the mana cost (the numbers in the upper-right; spending a turn sometimes matters), but Forked Bolt is actually the nuts against Maverick and the mirror, as well as random decks like Merfolk (if they don't have a Lord) and sometimes a value play against Dredge.
3) You're playing 6 piece countermagic against combo, 3 of which often don't even do anything? So against a deck that is already faster than you, you're, what, going to leave an Island untapped every turn of the game to try to not get comboed out? What if you have 2 Dazes in hand and only 1 Island in play (because they play Wasteland)? You only play 1 Island (Volcanics don't count) which makes you very weak in this vein to Wasteland, and then you further weaken yourself by relying on that Island very hard to beat combo. That seems very bad.
Good arguments aside, I like this. Been wanting to build a "One Drop Blue Zoo" for quite some time. I'm all for using Vexing Devil like this. Let 'em use removal on it, more Delver hits to the face are always good.Quote:
Originally Posted by troopatroop
Devil is actually a really good card, I just don't think he fits into this deck. In burn for example, he's absolutely amazing. All of the things you mentioned above can be done to a Delver or Goblin, and everyone loves playing 4 of them. That said, no way I'd trade Snapcaster mage for him and Grim Lavamancer can be a game changer against majority of the popular aggro decks right now. I can't cut him either and there's simply no room for 4 more creatures to go into here IMO. Really tough, but anyone who's played Devil know's most of the time it's 4 to the face for R (again, more relevant in Burn).Quote:
Originally Posted by Ertai87
:eyebrow:Quote:
2) Rift Bolt over Forked Bolt? Not all the burn in the deck needs to go to the face. I'd play Shard Volley before Rift Bolt, first of all, due to the mana cost (the numbers in the upper-right; spending a turn sometimes matters), but Forked Bolt is actually the nuts against Maverick and the mirror, as well as random decks like Merfolk (if they don't have a Lord) and sometimes a value play against Dredge.
Anyways, I'd probably go with Forked Bolt too - though I've been experimenting with Fire/Ice and I "kinda" like it. Serves the same function as Forked Bolt but gives me the option to tap a big critter if needed. I need to play with it more but I think Forked Bolt might be better. You're right though, both are better than Rift Bolt.
I'm not sure I completely understood this... but I THINK you mean to say Daze is bad here? :p Which, I mostly agree with lol. I don't run Daze (like, at all) but I always include 3 FoW as I think it's absolutely necessary against combo. I'm not sure you are giving Spell Pierce enough credit though. Yes, you will want to tap out a lot playing this deck but at worst it's pitched to a FoW and at best it completely saves you against a LOT of decks you will play against regularly the times you DONT tap out. I personally love Spell Pierce, it's ridiculous, but FoW will always have a place in my heart especially since I was playing with them since they've been released. :)Quote:
3) You're playing 6 piece countermagic against combo, 3 of which often don't even do anything? So against a deck that is already faster than you, you're, what, going to leave an Island untapped every turn of the game to try to not get comboed out? What if you have 2 Dazes in hand and only 1 Island in play (because they play Wasteland)? You only play 1 Island (Volcanics don't count) which makes you very weak in this vein to Wasteland, and then you further weaken yourself by relying on that Island very hard to beat combo. That seems very bad.
Here's my deck for reference, I'd love to hear people's opinions and comments. Im still playing with the last card, which is currently the 4th Lavamancer but meh... it needs to be something else and I don't know what :mad: I always find it hard to put a 1 of in there, been switching it for a Daze, a 4th Arid Mesa and a even a Thunderous Wrath. Still a work in progress I guess /shrug
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Goblin Guide
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
4 Spell Pierce
3 Force of Will
2 Daze
2 price of progress
4 lightning Bolt
4 chain lightning
3 Volcanic Island
3 Island
2 Mountain
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Arid Mesa
The thing is, Delver can't (easily) be blocked and traded with, while Goblin Guide still deals 2 damage even if they immediately bolt him much of the time (many people will play around a postcombat threat and won't bolt the Guide immediately). Devil actually does stone nothing if you just drop him and he gets removed.Quote:
Originally Posted by RhoxWarMonk
Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying, assuming what you mean by "here" is "in the combo matchup". Daze is good against decks where the tempo matters (such as Maverick, RUG, etc), but is very very bad against combo. The list quoted plays no Force, making it weak to combo, plays only 6 piece countermagic (personally, I play 9) making it even weaker, and furthermore 3 of those pieces are Daze, makes me think that list actually cannot beat a combo deck ever.Quote:
I'm not sure I completely understood this... but I THINK you mean to say Daze is bad here?
I'm speaking specifically in the context of the combo matchup. In the combo matchup, you want to tap out on turn 1 to play a threat, perhaps on turn 2 to flip your Delver (off a brainstorm) and play another threat (or maybe just leave up 1 mana), and even sometimes on turn 3 (if you miss your 3rd land drop). Then they combo out on turn 3 and you die. They can usually even combo out on turn 3 with counter backup, or with 2 extra mana to pay for a Pierce, so you really need double countermagic to stop them much of the time. Spell Pierce is good, but the double-Pierce draw is not what you want to be relying on against combo.Quote:
I'm not sure you are giving Spell Pierce enough credit though. Yes, you will want to tap out a lot playing this deck but at worst it's pitched to a FoW and at best it completely saves you against a LOT of decks you will play against regularly the times you DONT tap out. I personally love Spell Pierce, it's ridiculous, but FoW will always have a place in my heart especially since I was playing with them since they've been released. :)
If we are talking about combo I fully agree. Not much to be said, only packing 6 counters with no forces will not get you far. Tho I don't know his meta and maybe combo isn't played much, dunno. Either way we agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ertai87
But lets talk about devil. In your first post you mentioned how it can be removed very easily but what I was trying to say is any creature that doesn't have scroud will have the same issue... I mean, tarmogoyf can be sworded, or snuffed out too. Definitely doesn't make it a bad card... Devil is usually 4 dmg for r, and the few times he has been able to stick I can usually protect him with my daze and pierces. I guess I should be asking how much play testing you have done with this card? Most who dislike vexing devil simply theorycraft and never actually played him. Not saying that's the case, genuinely asking :)
In my experience playing against Devil he's one of the scariest things to see my opponent drop. It's pretty brutal to see the other side of the table go: Turn 1 Goblin guide, turn 2 Swing again, devil -> devil.Quote:
Originally Posted by RhoxWarMonk
I think it's accurate to say that most people who dislike him are simply theorycrafting. They feel that they end up losing potential damage because late-game you could have drawn a burn instead of him, but that's patently untrue. I would never replace a burn with Vexing Devil, I'd be replacing a creature with him, which makes it fundamentally impossible to draw it instead of a burn spell--either way that draw would have been a creature, Vexing Devil is generally superior to all other options.
I'm starting to think about mainboarding sulfuric vortex.
I'm finding it more and more needed to have that life gain stoppage.
took out price of progress though.
Here's my deck
3 Mountains
2 Island
4 Volcanic Island
3 Flooded Strand
2 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Grim Lavamancer
3 Spell Pierce
3 Ponder
4 Goblin Guide
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Sulfuric Vortex
2 Reforge the Soul
2 Thunderous Wrath
3 empty slots of lol I dunno. Guess I can put in Price of Progress or Snap.
I can't play without snapcaster, he's just been too good for me and believe me I was a pretty big skeptic of him. Most common play is Snap->Bolt which is usually very good but you can use him for things like brainstorm as well.
How do you find your land count? I've seen a lot of people running 18 and I wonder if you get mana hosed very often. Im only playing with one more but I find it's much more consistent (though I admit, I only played with 18 very briefly).
I didn't like the miracle cards personally, because they are dead in your hand without a brainstorm. Also, even when I had a brainstorm it felt "clunky" because it forced me to use that card in the next few turns where maybe I didn't want to. It just didn't fit my playstyle I guess but I know lots of people have been playing with TW especially and really liking it.
I play Vortex in the side but it's such a good/underrated card I can understand wanting to MD it depending on your meta. I cringe a little at the CC but it's no worse than a snapcaster+target, long as you make your turn 3 land drop your fine (also why I was curious about the land count).
If your looking for cards you add, you could also try Daze as well. I've been playing with it off and on and I like it. Allows me to tap out while still having a counter. The only downside is people start to play around it but that gives you one extra turn in most cases to do something. Personally I think 2-3 is the right number, but I play more counters than most people I'm sure. My deck has changed from the above list.... I should go edit it :tongue:
hi guys
but what u think idea of play this deck,
without any counter only aggro
like this?
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...1&iddeck=61054
Hi !Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacemindbreak
That's my first intervention on this site and I'm not fluent in english so I apologize for my poor language :D
I usually play Burn and wonder if a U splash is really efficient.
Concerning the list I quoted, my comments would be:
1°) 19 lands seems to be necessary in that type of build. And I would play like +2 mountains -1 island, because 1 island in your open hand is dramatical !
2°) I would play daze instead of FoW: U just want to play counter to "temporize" and take a real PV advantage. Daze is a is good as FoW in the first 2 turns (I think), but it doesn't need to remove one card.
3°) Sulfuric: I'm working on a liste with 2/3 main deck too, that's so powerfull in middle game to continue the work of our blast (even with a empty hand).
3 seems to be too much, but 2 seems great. (with 19 lands !).
4°) Reforge the souls: Outch... I think it's a very, VERY bad idea. Its make opponent draw 7 ! In all U.deck it sounds like a defeat. For dredge, it's an autowin...
I think 3/4 thunerdous would be better.
I personnaly play vexing devil, so much strong in a early game.
U may play lava spike, flame rift or magma jet.
Which creature would you drop? My build plays Delver, Snap, Lavamancer, and Goblin Guide as its only creatures. Snap is basically a burn spell with upside, Lavamancer likewise, Goblin Guide is the most explosive (I might even say "best") card in the deck, and Delver is...well, Delver.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kich867