I used to play pox pre-Liliana and I tried putting 3 contamination and 2 bitterblossom for the lock piece. With Nether spirit, Mishra's factory (with crucible) and bitterblossom, this will lock their lands to black. I'll try to redo the deck again.
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I used to play pox pre-Liliana and I tried putting 3 contamination and 2 bitterblossom for the lock piece. With Nether spirit, Mishra's factory (with crucible) and bitterblossom, this will lock their lands to black. I'll try to redo the deck again.
It seems to me that Darkblast and Bloodghast work together best in a Loam build, whilst Cursed Scroll and Haunted Plate Mail are best in mono black. Nether Spirit should be run in all Pox builds, no excuse. I haven't used Tombstalkers as much as some of you, but they seem more a fit for mono black.
Darkblast kill all toughness one and two creatures. Just cast it at upkeep, dredge, and cast it again.
This is why it is rarely countered by rug players; what would be the point? Thus it work well as Delver killer.
You need to save for some Bayous Hardcore! Loaming into Darkblast and Bloodghast is calling your name. Just watch out for all that gravehate. Or do you find that just because you only splash dredge/GY that it isn't enough for them to bring hate? I find that foes bring in thier hate against me no matter how much or how little GY I am actually using. They fear it that much in Pox. And rightly so.
I disagree. Nether Spirit used to be a necessity, but I think the advent of Deathrite Shaman has made it 'viable' at best. Traditionally, one or two Spirits wouldn't merit an opponent bringing in hate, but with so many decks having access to incidental graveyard hate (pre-board, no less), Nether Spirit loses its built-in evasion. The card has always been weaker to Swords to Plowshares than Mishra's Factory anyway, and I wouldn't run it outside of Loam Pox, personally. It's still good, but it is nowhere near an auto-inclusion.Quote:
Originally Posted by beez
Darkblast also strikes me as odd. The card has its merits, but we are the Cursed Scroll deck, and Scroll shares a synergy with other cards in the deck (Smallpox, Liliana) that Darkblast doesn't (outside of a couple graveyard cards). I think the less we rely on the graveyard, the better. All I run is 2 Crucible of Worlds, and I'm delighted when my opponent dilutes his/her deck by bringing in garbage like Rest in Peace.
Blasphemy! lol.
shawn riggin ran a list without em' and he made a good finish..i, too was surprised at first but it made sense when i realized that his reason for its un-inclusion were the ensnaring bridges..still, i probably won't run a mono-black list without it..but thats a personal preference..
Yesterday I put together a more conservative deck for the local tourney.
(No Gitaxian probes!)
This doesn't mean there were no news, of course. I had added Phyrexian Arena and Barren Moor. At first I planned use the Moors as cantrips 5-8 in a Gitaxian probe deck, but now they they just are an upgrade.
Randomness affected the results too much for me to write a report, but I made a few observations:
The arena is sick in grinding games. It helped me beat zoo and punishing jund.
Against the later I went up to 25 life points with an arena in play! :cool:
Decks that splash black have more 1cc spot discard than me, which gives them an edge. I have several options to rectify this.
Losing tempo due to lack of lands is bad. I will run a minimum of 23 black mana sources. Barren Moor will help here in mid game.
4 Nihilith
4 Bloodghast
3 Tombstalker
2 Phyrexian Arena
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Smallpox
3 Pox
3 Darkblast
4 The Rack
4 Barren Moor
2 Dakmor Salvage
17 Swamp
This build feel stable enough to tweak. It has room for another 2-3 cards. Two Thoughtseize perhaps?
i think your build "justifies" the inclusion of arena more than the traditional LD version because you have a higher threat density..the LD build usually runs about 7 minimum win conditions maindeck, i've even seen list that ran only 6, the rest of the deck is devoted to disrupt or lock your opponent out of the game(nether void, trinisphere)..i believe phyrexian arena will most likely kill the LD pox pilot even before he can get the most out of the card advantage..
just be careful though, you're running 3 big poxes, that can sometimes make your life go dangerously low..and you've no way of getting rid of your arena once it becomes to painful while on play..you should consider this more since you're also thinking of maindecking 2 thoughtseizes..
i feel dark rituals can really help this deck for more explosiveness..don't worry too much about them being dead draws in the mid or late game..you have a high threat density and a low land count, i'm very sure threats will come..
The "Best" decks don't have catch 22s. If we want Pox to attempt to come close, the MORE unconditional cards we run the better. Nether Spirit & Liliana and Cursed Scroll are so strong in this deck archetype specifically because they don't really need help from other cards. Individually, these cards are good, but all 3 together in the same deck? Overpowered.Quote:
Originally Posted by zenitramleirdag
I had Phyrexian Arena for a while a long time ago, however getting killed by it didn't justify the extra cards. We are not a DRAW Card Advantage deck, we are a virtual card advantage deck. By running threats that kill the opponents removal, Pox gains an edge and by using Pox FX so that your enemy is losing tempo instead of us [discard Nether spirit? land with Crucible? Load up Cursed Scroll Etc.] we get more virtual advantage.
Dark Rituals are auto includes. The original reason I've read for including them is just that Pox doesn't have much to work with in the 1-2 mana range and vs. fast draw decks, we NEED the explosiveness to shut them down game one. Might as well let that combo deck WORK for its win game one instead of giving them a bye. Dark Rit, Inquisition, Hymn to Tourach? I've run Storm combo before and it does NOT want to lose 3 cards on the draw. Fast aggro decks don't want to be hit by Innocent Blood + Hymn on turn 1. And nothing causes a cringe more than Liliana turn one and they let her resolve... :laugh: If the enemy deck doesn't murder you in the first 3 turns, then sideboard them out and throw away the card disadvantage.
I do understand that Hardcore is going for a budget style Pox but I think it's a mistake to make it into an aggro deck. Just run more threats that aren't traditional creatures. The Rack, Cursed Scroll, Ankh of Mishra, Chimeric Idol, and my favorite big hitter, Phyrexian Totem would fare better in a deck with multiple Pox fx then one with creatures. That and top decking a Dark Ritual makes the Totems quite fierce vs. an empty board state.
Here's my list:
1 Urborg
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra’s Factory
1 Mutavault
2 Dakmor Salvage
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
10 Swamp
Total: 25
Creatures
1 Nether Spirit
Total: 1
Spells
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Smallpox
1 Nether Void
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Cursed Scroll
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Haunted Plate Mail
2 Sensei’s Divining Top
4 Innocent Blood
4 Dark Ritual
4 Sinkhole
Total: 34
Sideboard:
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Spinning Darkness
3 Pithing Needle
2 Engineered Plague
For what it's worth, I split Top 4 at the GPT 2 weeks ago (it later became a non-GPT because of technical difficulties *cry*). Here is a VERY barebones description of what happened due to my lack of note taking:
Round 1 Merfolk - went to 3. Pretty straightforward. Game 1 I kept a 1 black mana hand and just never drew into more in time. Games 2 and 3 I didn't and I won.
Round 2 Show & Tell - also went to 3. G3 Turn 2 he casts Show & Tell - I had sided in Ensnaring Bridge - muahaha. I have never lost to S&T with this deck.
Round 3 - Elves. Also pretty straightforward. Engineered P was pretty key in game 3.
Round 4 - ID
Round 5 - ID
Top 8
Rematch vs. Elves.
Game 1 he went to GSZ Baloth - I had made him discard it earlier haha.
Game 2 - AMAZING. T1 Tabernacle, T2 Engineered. Pretty much sealed it.
i agree with a lot of things about the above post..i mainly only addressed those things assuming that hardcore insists on running his aggressive version of the deck..
i personally, wouldn't go that route if i were to take pox on a tourney..and if i were to suggest my way, i would probably change about half of its contents..
@OmniStrata - Phyrexian Totem is strong. One of those cards that almost makes the cut but not quite. But great for budget and heavy on Big Pox decks.
That list is very similar to my mono-black list. Except I cant swing the Tabernacle. I like having two tops and two Crucibles. I am experimenting with Mox Diamond instead of Ritual. Sylvan Library for Top and Loam for Crucibles, but still not sure if the green splash is just 6 of one and half-dozen of another yet though. Nevertheless that mono black build is very strong. How does your sideboard work out though? It is a bit different than mine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teluin
Pox
1 Nether Spirit
1 Haunted Plate Mail
2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Cursed Scroll
1 Pox
4 Smallpox
4 Lilliana Of The Veil
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Inquisition Of Kozeliek
4 Innocent Blood
4 Sinkhole
4 Dark Ritual
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
10 Swamp
1 Verdant Catacomb
1 Cabal Pit
3 ratchet bomb
1 pithing Needle
3 Extripate
1 Leyline of the Void
3 trinisphere
3 Engineered Plague
Teluin's Sideboard looks like it's from the old school, though I think 6 GY hate might be too much. I've found 4 Leylines and 1 Surgical to be enough. Split second I've found in Extirpate can't compete with free spell. ^_^ Ensnaring Bridge... Ah, a solid lock piece for Aggro. Looking back, my build only runs 2 Nether spirits and I could just Cursed Scroll my foes to death. An old Mono-B I built a while ago was based on Ensnaring Bridge, the Rack, and Necrogen Mists. :laugh:
Oh oops, I didn't update my sideboard. Those 2 Spinning Darkness should be Trinisphere. I don't consider the Surgical's graveyard hate. They are more like extra land/creature removal for decks that rely on 1 or 2 4-ofs to win. Just against S&T decks alone, I've used it on Emrakrul and S&T. Delver decks do NOT like if you use it on their land.
beez - The sideboard's pretty good. Trinisphere is great against burn and Delver decks especially. Pithing Needle is key against planeswalkers and Sneak Attack, which is very relevant since we can't remove an enchantment except via Liliana's ultimate. Unless you don't play mono-black of course, but I do not like the splash builds. I used to have Ratchet Bombs in my SB, and I might go back to that if Painter decks continue to stick around. Also considering 1 MB Damnation. As for Mox Diamond, I wouldn't do it - Ritual all day long. If I were you, I'd run 2 Dakmor Salvage over 1 Swamp/1 Verdant Catacomb. It works great with Smallpox and can help with Top.
Omni - I would only bother with 1 Nether Spirit, unless you have a card like Spinning Darkness in the main (which I wouldn't do... this deck has a ton of removal as is) to remove 1 of the extra spirits if that ever became necessary. Scroll also works as creature removal too of course.
Oh, and I mentioned it briefly but has anyone used Damnation at all? I find if I ever fall behind on taking out their creatures, things can suck big time. A big sweeper in a deck like this can really bring things back to the start - only less cards in hand, which is what we want.
I love Damnation, but it can be hard to get to 4 mana without having to pitch it. Then again I could hide it with Top like I do with HPM, but the less of that sort of thing I have to do the better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teluin
Ratchet Bombs are for Chalice and other permanent that are hard to get rid of but have a big effect, as well as some creature and token sweeping. Perhaps I could consider going back to a 2-2 split with Needle. Do hate Jaces and Countertops.