[Deck] bUrg Tempo

3 Trops are playable if you want to support heavy spells with GG like Thrun,Troll Ascetic or Natural Order etc.
Currently i like to have 8 fetchlands because it turns up ******** quickly and you alwaly get the right colour combination instead of topdecking 2 or 3 of the same dual.

Thrun was originally a funslot,a friend of mine had it in the sideboard for a time and it looked pretty solid against all controldecks and Jund of course.
TNN is also debatable but i'm not a fan of boarding in both TNN and Golgari Charm versus true-blade decks.




- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -

1 dismember 1 counterspell is fine if your metagame is full of miracle,Mud,sneakshow and nic fit.
But otherwise i would run 2 dismember,it depends on your local meta.
You are living in Hannover right?
Aren't there many Team America Players around?

Sneakshow: This Matchup is quite easy,i crushed sneakshow in the last round of swiss in the top16 with 2:0 and did not have a single pierce.
The matchup is preboard with snares around 50:50, postboard really favourable.
I still play 2 Pyroblasts 2 Fluster and 1 clique in my sb.
Also,if library resolves it's almost gg.
It is important to realize and decide which role you play with your opening seven,the pure aggro,aggro control or hard control.


- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -

Thanks, the Meta switches really hard from month to month as the player base fluctuates between 35-60.

I just think that CS can handle TNN whereas Dismember cannot. That is why I am a fan of CS right now. The split between Dismember and CS is perhaps right now. Do you agree that CS is better versus TNN blade.decs and Patriot?

With 7 MD removal however you can reduce the number of Fire Covenants to one - which you already did. With CA Fire Covenant is perhaps still a 2-off.

I like your Artifact Mutation secret tech. It is gg versus Batterskull.

You have to think like this:

If both Counterspell and Dismember were in your Sideboard,would you board one in of them against UWR Delver or UW Blade ?
If you never board in Counterspell against both decks,it won't be the time right now to put it in the main 60.The same for all other slots in your deck.


Artifact Mutation is one of my favourite cuties and it is fantastic,with only 1 decay i have to push the artifact hate since Bladedecks are getting more popular in berlin.
So,postboard i have 4 artifact hate (with flashback) i don't want to have more of them against any deck out there.
Therefore i have to give up my 1-off graveyardhate slot in my 15,but if we look at the graveyard-based decks,there are just these:

1 Led-dredge
2 Reanimator,Tin Fins
4 Pif Ant
3 Manaless Dredge

1-3 can be handled with raw counterpower+deathrite.
Only 4 is only beatable with shaman or other permanents to hate the grave.But let's be honest, against Manaless Dredge i take a mull until i have shaman in my opening hand.



- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -

You are right about grave hate. That is why I always opt to play Nihil Spellbomb as it wins the mirror match and is a cantrip. Really groundbreaking versus Nimble Mongoose. You can cut one Submerge from your list for a Nihil spellbomb. With 3 Submerge, 2 Dismembers, 1 Decay and 3 Snares you overload your Goyf removals. It is nice to have something that hits ALL Mongeese of the opponent.The nice plus is that Nihil Spellbomb is a grave hate and good in other matchups. But the mirror match is the reason I use that card.

If you want a card that is good versus midrange decks try Carsten's new sweetheart Ashiok. It is better castable than Thrun and is also good in the mirror.

Do you have arkward moments with your mana base when you need R for Bolts, G for Mongoose and B for Shaman and just cannot have 3 lands in play? How do you fetch normally and do you try to stay at 2 lands and have only R when you want to cast Bolt?

No the other way round :D

I designed my main 60 to operate with 2 lands,Tropical Island and Volcanic Island.
Every single Spell except 1 Decay can be cast with these two,dismember also with wasteland.
So i usually fetch for tropical first and drop a creature,then fetch for volcanic and start dominating the board until my opponent dies.
I fetch underground sea only if i have my decay in hand or if i have shaman online and have enough manasources to cast spells and(!) to vortex my opponent.During Turn 1-3 shaman is supposed to support the denial-screw plan by using his manaability to cast stifle,bolt,snare and brainstorm.

Until october i had the normal land configuration with taiga and 7 fetch.
The problem was the mirrormatch, just one opposing wasteland took out my usea and i was cut of blue...

It's all about playstyle i know.
For me this deck is Canadian ******** with a little black touch.
Even my Sideboard is RUG except of the most important cards Fire Cov and golgari Charm.


- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sawatarix

No the other way round :D

I designed my main 60 to operate with 2 lands,Tropical Island and Volcanic Island.
Every single Spell except 1 Decay can be cast with these two,dismember also with wasteland.
So i usually fetch for tropical first and drop a creature,then fetch for volcanic and start dominating the board until my opponent dies.
I fetch underground sea only if i have my decay in hand or if i have shaman online and have enough manasources to cast spells and(!) to vortex my opponent.During Turn 1-3 shaman is supposed to support the denial-screw plan by using his manaability to cast stifle,bolt,snare and brainstorm.

Until october i had the normal land configuration with taiga and 7 fetch.
The problem was the mirrormatch, just one opposing wasteland took out my usea and i was cut of blue...

It's all about playstyle i know.
For me this deck is Canadian ******** with a little black touch.
Even my Sideboard is RUG except of the most important cards Fire Cov and golgari Charm.


- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -

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Ok my playstyle is always to fetch usea and taiga first. But I agree that Taiga makes you lose more versus Stifle decks than you win with it. With only one Decay as the silver bullet and reset button if something goes wrong the taiga is not needed that much. But is the clock sufficient enough if you only Vortrex late game?


But the discussion has convinced me enough that I will try a modified version of your list. I also dropped Carsten a line to read these discussions and comment on it.

Usually you don't use deathrite shamans -2 ability before turn 4.

I am very satisfied with my current build,the deck is very elegant,fluent and i don't get colourblocked that often.

Ashiok is an interesting card,i have tested it a bit with lurch and other friends here in berlin who play ashiok in their Team America Sideboard to combat the mirror.
So the games turn out like this example: You and your opponent grind until no player has cards in hand and between 3-5 permanents in play.
Then you cast ashiok,protect it with your creatures and keep stalling until your board has an overload on creatures to swarm your opponent to death.That's how i used ashiok.
It sounds very powerful and in deed it is,but only in the lategame.
So an ashiok in your opening 7 is very bad,you have to shuffle it away with brainstorm i guess.
The same goes for Thrun,Jace,Garruk and Natural Order by the way ;)
This Deck is so fluent,that you can afford to have 1 clunky but powerful spell in your 60 postboard.



- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sawatarix

Usually you don't use deathrite shamans -2 ability before turn 4.

I am very satisfied with my current build,the deck is very elegant,fluent and i don't get colourblocked that often.

Ashiok is an interesting card,i have tested it a bit with lurch and other friends here in berlin who play ashiok in their Team America Sideboard to combat the mirror.
So the games turn out like this example: You and your opponent grind until no player has cards in hand and between 3-5 permanents in play.
Then you cast ashiok,protect it with your creatures and keep stalling until your board has an overload on creatures to swarm your opponent to death.That's how i used ashiok.
It sounds very powerful and in deed it is,but only in the lategame.
So an ashiok in your opening 7 is very bad,you have to shuffle it away with brainstorm i guess.
The same goes for Thrun,Jace,Garruk and Natural Order by the way ;)
This Deck is so fluent,that you can afford to have 1 clunky but powerful spell in your 60 postboard.



- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -

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My experience with Ashiok is the same.

I would not change your main deck, just the sideboard in one slot.

I am also liking to board clique versus the mirror as it kills mongoose and Delver, so 2/3 of the creature base. Goyf is no problem with your Dismembers etc..Do you board out Library versus the mirror? Carsten and I tend to do so but I think one late game bomb in the 60s is good. He also would board out the Dismembers where I would not do that as the more Goyf outs the better.

To come back to the topic of finding a card that is great versus Jund, Blade and Mirror and Patriot: Only a hard to remove creature comes to my mind and that is Reanimate now.

Ashiok only helps to win grindy games but you want to win in the mirror and versus blade decks before that phase. Just having more Mongeese helps versus Blade, the mirror and Jund.

So I would play reanimate instead of GSZ or Thrun (which can only be played if you have 3 Trops on your list).

I'm not sure about reanimate>gsz.
Imagine you play against blade and your opening hand is

Reanimate
Misty Rainforest
Wasteland
Daze
Tropical Island
Force of Will
Ponder

And now the same opening 7 with GSZ instead.
Which hand applies preasure?
Right the second one.
The problem with reanimate is,that it requires a creature in any graveyard,hopefully a powerful one.
You don't want to (for example) bolt their stoneforge and reanimate that squire for 2 lifeloss.
So reanimate is maybe great in the mid/lategame when there are some good creatures already in grave and if your opponent has no active deathriteshamans.
But in the same Mid/Lategame you an also tap 3 or even 4 Mana for a more powerful spell,like Ashiok or Thrun or GsZ for Goose,Shaman,(Goyf)



- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -

So I went to Hanau.

For the trial on Sunday, I brought the list that I posted - and frequently played the weeks leading to the event. I only had limited time as my wife and I had guests in the evening - so I only played 5 rounds of Swiss. The loss of my 4:1 drop result was to UWR Delver - which included two Mulligans to four due to Taiga as the only non-Wasteland in my opening hands.

Sawatarix' rant for the past few pages had been going on between him and me (offline of course) for a few days already - and the discussion had me convinced after my mulliganing experience Sunday. I ultimately brought sawatarix' list (with Sylvan Library and no Taiga), except that I exchanged the second Dismember and third Spell Snare for two Spell Pierce, and the Sideboard was slightly different (including 2 Cages for Elves and (Manaless) Dredge, which I frequently saw on Sunday).

The list ran extra smoothly - no possible manascrew whatsoever. However, I went 2:2 drop in the main event, with losses to Nic Fit and Pox...

The event was really cool however. I met a lot of friends and traded a lot of pimp stuff for my deck...if anyone cares I'll also post some pics after my beautiful DRS arrive ;)

Learnings:
+ We (Team Berlin) will have to test the two alternative lists until GP Paris. For me, the most distinguishing feature of the "Berlin-bUrg list" is the non-screw manabase. While I am under the impression that Wasteland decks are currently out of favor, I think this is a bomb feature. In fact, I am not sure how important the second Decay is currently. When people start realizing how good Miracles is currently, this opinion on my part may change...
+ Sylvan Library is pure dope in bUrg. Will not leave home without it anymore. Even the (admittedly absurd) BUG Landstill matchup becomes quite good with it.
+ 3 Submerge is at least 1 too many in a metagame with an abundance of combo and UWx decks. Ashiok will make a return to my sideboard (seriously).
+ Counterspell is an interesting suggestion. In the Taiga-manabase, Counterspell felt way too clunky for me, as you typically fetch Usea first, and then Taiga - so you could only have it live from turn 3 if you did not adjust your fetching behavior. In the Berlin list with only blue duals, Counterspell may be outstanding
+ I love teching bUrg. The deck has a very fresh feel to it everytime I play!
- I almost feel sorry for ANT/TES players - the matchup feels like a bye to me
- Pox is a bitch
- So is Nic Fit :laugh:

Pox was the main reason to put a singleton compost in the sideboard i remember.
But honestly, if you reach 3:0:0 in a tournament some archetypes will dissapear,pox is one of them.
So i would not focus the sideboard on these decks even if they sometimes crushes us.

Sylvan Library is kind of Compost against each deck by the way.

The only thing i miss sadly is the fast clock we know from RUG.
If we get ahead on board or screw our opponent with rug, a tarmogoyf could close the game within 3-4 turns if not faster.
This fast clock is absent in German ********, we have to control the board for more turns.
It feels like RUG is the aggro-(control) archetype and german ***** is the control-(aggro) archetype.



Also an interesting way to reach the goal:
A friend of mine played against UWR Delver last week in the finals of a local tournament in vienna.
postboard he played with only 4 Nimble Mongoose,1 Green Sun's Zenith and 1 Thrun and boardet out all other creatures to negate his opponents entire removal spells.
He told me,that it felt like playing Miracles (Entreat the Angels is Thrun or Nimble Mongoose here :D )
Obviously he won by trolling his opponent in such a way,he was kinda traumatised afterwards ;D


- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -

@lurch: Well you had bad luck as you played versus the worst matchups in Hanau (Pox and NicFit). It is unbelievable that you played versus both of these fringe decks :D

@Thrun: I testet him during 20 games versus RUG Delver yesterday and 14 times I wished it was a Nihil Spellbomb to shrink the opposing Mongeese. It is either not castable or comes to late or only stalls the board where Nihil costs only cc1 and makes an Mongoose army to 2-3 miserable 1-1 tokens.

@GSZ: Having 5 Mongeese or 4 Shamans when needed feels huge. The card is great. Especially it is another grave hate versus grave decks. I feel that GSZ is superior to Thrun versus control and tempo.

@Kai's list: I tested the list and must say, although only the removal suite (and therefore the mana base) is a little different from the stock list, his list is better. It is more fluid. The sideboard needs a bit of change when you take his list (more artifact removal, less Fire Covenants). I have now changed the official/stock list more towards the one of Kai. It is an honor for me that we have such a good list now. Thanks. The primer and sideboard guide has been updated. Really every second sentence has been rewritten. Just visit it :)

@Power level of bUrg:

And anyone still wondering why bUrg is great in this meta, should look at the sideboard plan versus Patriot:


//Patriot:
//OTP: - 2 Force - 2 Daze - 4 Delver -1 Snare+ 2 REB + 2 Golgari Charm + 1 Loam + 1 Clique + 1 Artifact Mutation + 1 Grudge + 1 GSZ
//OTD:-4 Daze -4 Delver -1 Force + 2 REB + 2 Golgari Charm + 1 Loam + 1 Clique + 1 Artifact Mutation + 1 Grudge + 1 GSZ

We control the opponent and crush him. Every single threat (Stoneforge/Nemesis/Delver) can be answered with plenty of cards. And after the opponent has crumbled we ride with our 5 Mongeese to the victory.

Another popular TNN deck are Esper Blade decks. Sideboarding is a dream there, too:

//Blade with Nemesis:
//OtP:-2 Daze-2 Force-2 Dismember-1 Stifle- 1 Snare+ 1 Ancient Grudge + 2 REB + 2 Golgari Charm + 1 Clique + 1 Artifact Mutation+ 1 GSZ
//OtD:-4 Daze-1 Force-2 Dismember-1 Stifle+ 1 Ancient Grudge + 2 Golgari Charm + 2 REB + 1 Clique + 1 GSZ + 1 Artifact Mutation

//Death Blade with Nemesis:
//OtP: -2 Force - 2 Daze - 1 Stifle - 1 Snare-1 Dismember+ 1 Ancient Grudge+ 1 REB+ 2 Golgari Charm + 1 Clique+ 1 GSZ + 1 Artifact Mutation
//OtD: -4 Daze - 2 Stifle - 1 Force - 1 Dismember+ 1 Ancient Grudge+ 2 Golgari Charm+ 1 REB + 1 Fire + 1 Clique+ 1 GSZ + 1 Artifact Mutation

Landing an Artifact Mutation on Batterskull was game in 9 of 10 cases during testings by the way.

I'm not saying that you should board out all creatures but mongeese against blade decks.
It is a possibility which works but is far away from ideal,although i tested it against grixis delver (4geese,1gsz,1thrun) und won all 6 postboardgames)
You still win some games just by crushing deathbladed manabase and than ride a insect into victory with removalprotection.
Or even double Delver get you there very quickly.



- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -

Well I do not board out Delvers versus Blade decks (see above). These decks are slow sometimes and a Delver often gets you there.


I board out 4 creatures versus Patriot as you can see and board in 2, that makes 10 creatures post-board (Library counted). That is decent. Hoping for Delver to survive versus 4 Swords and 4 Bolts is a bit to optimistic. I think taking the control route is great versus Patriot. How would you board? There are 10-11 excellent cards to board in. That is why you have to cut some creatures. Patriot only runs 10 creatures. That is why the boarding plan is fine. If I would not have like 10-11 great cards in that MU I would leave Delvers in. In the past it was advised to board Delvera out in the RUG mirrors to have the opponent virtual card disadvantage. Versus Patriot and there light creature suite that is even more true.

I used to sideboard slightly different than you suggested.
It really depends on who plays first.
If i'm on the play 4 delvers are excellent because our opponent is automatically in the defense role and many of our cards gets better to support this aggroplan,like dazes and wastelands (to timewalk).
To be ahead on the damage race is quite important in the delver mirror,it also forbids our opponent to attack or forces him to chump with his creatures which can also be an advantage for us.

On the draw however,the hexproof plan works pretty well.
We first focus on his manabase and creatures and then start to deploy hexproofguys.
Sounds powerful an indeed it is !

These playlines are nonetheless not THE Way to go,there are several other ones.It is just one of them and i personally really like it.


- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -

yes it is totally reasonable to use Delvers on the play.

That is why the best boarding - a combination of your and my ideas - is perhaps
that one:

//Patriot:
//OTP: - 2 Force - 2 Daze -1 Snare - 1 Stifle -1 Dismember+ 2 REB + 2 Golgari Charm + 1 Clique + 1 Artifact Mutation + 1 Grudge
//OTD:-4 Daze -4 Delver -1 Force + 2 REB + 2 Golgari Charm + 1 Loam + 1 Clique + 1 Artifact Mutation + 1 Grudge + 1 GSZ

That should work ;)

Hello,

I was a BUG player who wanted to play bolt, and then i found this very useful thread. Thank you for these great primer and reports !

I play this list and i hope i ll give you feedbacks soon (a report ) :


1 [R] Taiga
1 [R] Volcanic Island
2 [R] Tropical Island
2 [R] Underground Sea
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
4 [TE] Wasteland

1 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
3 [RTR] Deathrite Shaman
3 [OD] Nimble Mongoose
4 [ISD] Delver of Secrets/Insectile Aberration

1 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
2 [RTR] Abrupt Decay
2 [DIS] Spell Snare
4 [CMD] Brainstorm
4 [NE] Daze
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [M11] Lightning Bolt
4 [SC] Stifle
2 [NPH] Gitaxian Probe
4 [M12] Ponder

SB: 1 [RAV] Life from the Loam
SB: 1 [IA] Fire Covenant
SB: 1 [C13] True-Name Nemesis
SB: 1 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 1 [DKA] Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 [C13] Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 1 [5E] Krosan grip
SB: 1 [ISD] Ancient Grudge
SB: 2 [NE] Submerge
SB: 2 [4E] Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 [RTR] Golgari Charm
SB: 1 [ZEN] Spell Pierce



A few comments :


As a bug player i adopted the 2 red mana sources. I like having 1 usea + 1 trop + 1 drs in play (when otp).

I d like to play 1 more tarmogoyf but i don t want to cut the probes for it.

Nimble mangoose, as already said is a late game threat. 3 mangeese is maybe better.

I feel like 6 removals MD is enough, especially with 2 spell snares along with them.

The side is quite common. Artifact mutation over Krosan grip ?

Played deck today and have to say it was awesome only loss to Jund. It destroyed TNN decks! Only changes I would make would be side board meta changes.

I have really enjoyed the reading of this whole thread, I am am especially dwelling on the potential issues TNN may cause the Nimble Mongeese.

I have seriously considered how it will be possible to include Tombstalkers, and also how to get them in play fast enough. I think we need to get the "tempo" back into the deck. Tombstalker cares little about TNN, yet we need means to protect him!

Has anyone tried the Tombstalkers in their metas in the bUrg lists? I feel that the probes and pierces are a must if we choose to go Tombstalkers instead of Mongeese.

18 lands

2 [R] Volcanic Island
2 [R] Tropical Island
3 [R] Underground Sea
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
3 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
4 [TE] Wasteland

12 creatures

2 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
4 [RTR] Deathrite Shaman
2 [FS] Tombstalker
4 [ISD] Delver of Secrets/Insectile Aberration

30 spells

2 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
2 [RTR] Abrupt Decay
4 [CMD] Brainstorm
4 [NE] Daze
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [M11] Lightning Bolt
4 [SC] Stifle
2 [NPH] Gitaxian Probe
4 [M12] Ponder

15 SB cards

SB: 1 [RAV] Life from the Loam
SB: 1 [IA] Fire Covenant
SB: 1 [DKA] Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 [C13] Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 1 [APO] Artifact Mutation
SB: 1 [ISD] Ancient Grudge
SB: 2 [NE] Submerge
SB: 2 [4E] Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 [RTR] Golgari Charm
SB: 1 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
SB: 1 [RTR] Pithing Needle
SB: 1 [MMA] Vendilion Clique