[Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

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Originally Posted by Final Fortune

I honestly don't think MD Force of Will is worth it over Chancellor of the Annex, the card is not saving the game vs combo by itself and is losing time vs Deathrite Shaman which is enemy #1. I find my deepest runs with the deck are usually the ones where i grind thru all of the Deathrite decks, win the coin flip vs Eldrazi Leylines and Miracles doesnt even draw RIP more than Force of Will ever being clutch..

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Your point of vue is no sence because we don't choose between Force and CoA. And even if we have to choose Chancellor is better vs Shaman (but we still have street wraith and phantasmagorian to counter him) and FOW is better against combo and can make us win.

But Force is needed for the game 2.

And if we can have both in main deck there is no interest to put them on side.
I played a game where i FOW turn 1 in game 1 a deathrite shaman and i win cause after he can't stop me.

Guys, why every one play only contagion and not sickening shoal ?

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Originally Posted by Echelon

Seems like you changed your mind quite a bit since the last time this came up (see page 18 of the thread). Back in april you said pretty much the exact opposite.

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The meta has changed since then, combo has fallen to the wayside and aggro has risen to the top as one of the main stays of the format so the need to be fast is less important. As it stands the combo is more for decks that you can't otherwise interact with, like RG lands etc. which is rather narrow so I'm not really sure whether it belongs in the MD or SB over Pharoah or whatever else.

I think I mentioned dropping the combo recently tho? All ive done is shuffle around my FoWless 75 recently.

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Originally Posted by Xenio

Your point of vue is no sence because we don't choose between Force and CoA. And even if we have to choose Chancellor is better vs Shaman (but we still have street wraith and phantasmagorian to counter him) and FOW is better against combo and can make us win.

But Force is needed for the game 2.

And if we can have both in main deck there is no interest to put them on side.
I played a game where i FOW turn 1 in game 1 a deathrite shaman and i win cause after he can't stop me.

Guys, why every one play only contagion and not sickening shoal ?

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You aren't winning games vs combo playing just FoW, I play Storm as much if not more than Dredge and unless they go AI blind you have little chance of winning game 1 and have to fight uphill game 2. The best set up vs combo doesn't even use FoW over Mindbreak Trap, Unmask, COTV, Leyline of Sanctity etc where you can cut the chaff blue reanimation targets for more answers.

Yeah if you are running both FoW and Chancellor then you arent running something else.

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Originally Posted by Xenio

Guys, why every one play only contagion and not sickening shoal ?

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Simple. You bring it in vs. Containment Priest/DRS. Those have 2 toughness. Contagion gives you the opportunity to kill 2 x/1's with just 1 card from time to time. That's something the Shoal'll never do.

@Final Fortune

There's a few points I'd like to make about main deck FoW. First, I will not refute that it certainly can dilute your deck; a lower threat density and omission of Shell certainly can lead to some clunky looking Dredges at times. You very occasionally will whiff on chaining Dredges (eg. Have dumped hand off Phantas, need to keep going by hitting another Dredger but whiff) but I think these problems can be minimised by mulliganing when necessary and playing conservatively and smartly. Shell, as much as I'd like to find room for him, is still a very low-impact cards, even when you actually use him for Dredging.

What Force does aid considerably is save us against combo game 1. Compared to other combo decks we are slow, our fundamental turn being 3 while others can go off on turn 2. However, when we have Force we give ourself enough defence to buy that one extra turn to hit Therapies, shred the opponent's hand and then go off - or just clock them with our creatures. I know this isn't perfect, as opposing disruption can hurt us, but it is certainly better than relying on just our discard, which is only one axis of attack and can be imperfect. I'll agree that Storm still can be hard game 1, but we have much more of a fighting chance with discard, countermagic and a permanent based lock piece (Chancellor) and the matchups against Show and Tell feels much easier now.

I think you're also underestimating the strength of FoW as just a general utility spell too - not just as defence against combo. I have Forced countless spells, from Terminus that's ready to ruin us to just random things like Tarmogoyf. Having this flexibility in a deck once considered as incredibly linear in its plan of attack is something to be impressed by.

I'll admit in some metagames that FoW may not be necessary. In a metagames dominated by fair decks, FoW is unnecessary most of the time - just maximising on redundancy is probably better to ensure our engine doesn't randomly fizzle on us. But I still do think it is a necessity post-board, not only as a blanket answer against hate (except Leyline, obviously) but also as combo hate. The fact that we have sideboard slots with overlapping purposes frees up slots for other matchups. We don't have to run narrow cards like Mindbreak which is only strong against a certain subset.

I do think Chancellor should be a staple of all lists going forward though, FoW or not. The card keeps impressing me, not only as a way to steal back the play, delay Deathrite, etc. but also as a DR target that can ruin so many decks.

@Xenio
Contagion is typically better because we only care about small utility creatures (DRS) and it can occasionally tag multiple creatures. You can also spread counters on your own things for Bridge triggers. Shoal is only great for killing big things, which we overall don't care about much.

Also, someone recently conversed with me about Noxious Revival as Surgical defence. We have Wraith for our Dredgers, but not Narco and friends. It's seems a bit narrow and I'm quite skeptical, but I was wondering if anyone had given it a go. It also doubles as graveyard hate in our Faerie/Surgical slots.

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Originally Posted by Echelon

Simple. You bring it in vs. Containment Priest/DRS. Those have 2 toughness. Contagion gives you the opportunity to kill 2 x/1's with just 1 card from time to time. That's something the Shoal'll never do.

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Sure, but killing 2 cards never happen. Shaman and limon get 2 in endurance and for priest if she's dead it's win so the other creature don't matter.
It 's cool vs Infect but he can pump a beast to save her when a sickenning shoal could kill the infect creature.
As more as I use contagion, i start thinking sickenning shoal is better cause i never target 2 creatures.

Noxious reveal is nearly always useless but can save from some hate.
Sadly this card is only usefull in hand like Street wraith, gitaxianne prob, Force. Had other can make the dredge useless (like i dredge 5 get only useless card : street wraith, force, chancellor, dread return, prized amalgame). So i think that if you want to have noxious, you have to remove other "usefull in hand" card.

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Originally Posted by Xenio

Sure, but killing 2 cards never happen. Shaman and limon get 2 in endurance and for priest if she's dead it's win so the other creature don't matter.
It 's cool vs Infect but he can pump a beast to save her when a sickenning shoal could kill the infect creature.
As more as I use contagion, i start thinking sickenning shoal is better cause i never target 2 creatures.

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Depends. Shoal + Therapy is strictly worse. Shoal + Nether Shadow/Golgari Thug is still slightly worse. It's only better w/ Stinkweed Imp & up. Besides, Infect can just as easily Vines of Vastwood their creature to blank Shoal + Phantasmagorian. Or, you know, Invigorate, Invigorate into Berserk. Or FoW it. Or just let their creature die. Can't imagine they'd really care. They lose 1 card vs. your 2 cards and any Bridges you may have in your GY. Seems like a fair trade from their point of view.

My mainboard is identical so ChemicalBurns' one despite of the 3rd Chancellor over the 3rd Nether Shadow.

My sideboard looks like this:

3 contagion
3 Vengeful Pharaoh
4 disruption shoal
1 chancellor of the Annex
1 Ashen Rider
3 Faerie macabre

I want to give it a run on Sunday.

What do you think of Ashen Rider? He might improve the Lands and SnT matchup imo.

Also i sometimes dont know how to sideboard.

For example vs DnT i probably want Vengeful Pharaoh, Disrupting shoal and maybe even contagion. How do you fit these in? Do you cut Chancellor in this MU?

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Originally Posted by Snowfire

What do you think of Ashen Rider? He might improve the Lands and SnT matchup imo.

Also i sometimes dont know how to sideboard.

For example vs DnT i probably want Vengeful Pharaoh, Disrupting shoal and maybe even contagion. How do you fit these in? Do you cut Chancellor in this MU?

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The biggest problem you face vs. Lands is Bojuka Bog + Wasteland + Life From the Loam, Rider doesn't help you there.

As for D&T - they have very little in the way of card selection. You can always opt to try and outrun them if they whiff on hate w/ their opening hand.

I understand the general utility of Force of Will, but I don't think it's enough to deal with combo in and of itself game 1 and I know it's not the best post-board configuration vs combo game 2. While cards like Mindbreak Trap and Unmask might be more linear, it's not as if the SB can be utilized in any other more meaningful way than hating out one of the deck's natural predators. Why I think 4 MD Chancellor of the Void is "necessary" is that the meta you should be playing Manaless Dredge in would be Miracles, Deathrite Shaman.dec, Eldrazi, D&T etc. where Storm and Reanimator are hard pressed to compete, so there's no reason to play MD Force of Will over a more efficient counter to Deathrite Shaman.

I just don't think cutting down on consistency is ever a good idea in the long run with a deck that is literally Time Walked by the mulligan. Obviously we are all going to play whatever we want, but I think a lot of people here are getting tunnel vision from FoW.

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Originally Posted by Final Fortune

Obviously we are all going to play whatever we want, but I think a lot of people here are getting tunnel vision from FoW.

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Seconded!

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Originally Posted by Final Fortune

Why I think 4 MD Chancellor of the Void is "necessary" is that the meta you should be playing Manaless Dredge in would be Miracles, Deathrite Shaman.dec, Eldrazi, D&T etc. where Storm and Reanimator are hard pressed to compete, so there's no reason to play MD Force of Will over a more efficient counter to Deathrite Shaman.

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I think I understand why our opinions on Force diverge so much. It's really a matter of perspective of how we perceive the deck.

I feel that you, and I'm sure many others (though correct me if I'm wrong) see Manaless as purely a "metagame deck" that can only shine in grindy, midrangey, controlly metagames with a lack of combo and a bountiful amounts of Deathrite Shamans - if this isn't the case, just play another deck.

And this is true to some extent, as Manaless will always shine brightest in metagames low on graveyard hate, and indeed I'm not going to be piloting it in a field of Leylines etc. However, when I build my list, I suppose I aim for overall raw power and ability to interact with a much wider field, taking into account that I will likely play against combo and unexpected things. And hence, we come to main deck Force of Will. I suppose Force of Will in the main pushes the deck's power level for a more general field upwards, but reduces its strength against a more narrow metagame that you've been targeting Fortune - while also adding potential inconsistencies in the deck too. Power vs. Consistency, the usual trade-off within much deck design, is at the forefront of this decision.

With Prized Amalgam's printing, adding Force to elevate the deck above its previous niche status as a "metagame deck", and into a deck that can be strong in a more open metagame, seemed like a consideration; and aiming to do this is what I have been, and will be doing, as I tune my list going forward. However, while doing so, I'll be deeply considering your words above. Maybe it is just better to let Manaless be a monster of unprepared metagames and not dilute the deck. Or maybe both pathways are equally valid - Rollan's Top 8 with FoW Manaless at BoM Paris seems to indicate that the deck can take down more open metagames. In the end, let's just keep testing and move forward from there.

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Originally Posted by ChemicalBurns

Or maybe both pathways are equally valid - Rollan's Top 8 with FoW Manaless at BoM Paris seems to indicate that the deck can take down more open metagames. In the end, let's just keep testing and move forward from there.

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Do we have any idea what his MUs were..? A little bit of luck goes a long way with this deck.

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Originally Posted by Echelon

Do we have any idea what his MUs were..? A little bit of luck goes a long way with this deck.

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He post a report on Legacy france : http://www.legacy-france.org/index.p...pic=12478&st=0
But it's in french.

This is a sum up on his event :

Round 1 : VS 4C Stoneblade
Game 1 : Swords and spell pierce use but nothing can stop the zombies
Game 2 : RIP T2, counter by force. And slowly kill by zombies

Round 2 : VS Eldrazi
Game 1 : 2 Warping Mail on Ichorid, nothing more from the opponent.
Game 2 : Vengeful Pharaoh kill 2 smasher, 3 Ichoride creat to more pressure for Eldrazi.

Round 3 : VS Grixis Delver
Game 1 : Chancellor + FOW make the enemy slower, a late DRS come but Dread return on wirlpool into FLayer into Golgary close the game.
Game 2 : Double chancellor but delver hurt a lot, and take the game.
Game 3 : Enemy got Delver but not shaman, he can't run faster than dredge this time.

Round 4 : VS Elfe
Game 1 : Combo battle, dredge take game 1.
Game 2 : DRS is a pain
Game 3 : No combo for the elf and no DRS, so easy game

Round 5 : BUG elf Opposition
Game 1 : Some miss play form the manaless deck make the game more equal (DRS when a shaman untap is here) but elf run out of mana and dredge win.
Game 2 : Thorn of Amethiste is a pain in the ass sometimes
Game 3 : Double DRS :frown:

Round 6 : VS Elf
Game 1 : Dredge combo faster
Game 2 : Contagion kill lyanowar and dryad arbor. Behemoth get force. (Force op)

Round 7 : VS Sneak and show
Game 1 : Show and tell played Griselbrand in a side, Chancellor in the other. Chancelor is boring for the opponent =) Dredge kill T4.
Game 2 : Showand tell who fizzle (don't kill on the turn). Flayer kill him.

Round 8 : VS Eldrazi
Game 1 : Only aggro from Eldrazi Dredge kill with Flayer
Game 2 : Leyline of the void
Game 3 : Leyline of the void

Round 9 : VS 4C delver
Game 1 : Only delver, so no problem
Game 2 : Same

So 7-2 only loosing against Eldrazi and BUG elf opposition.

A sick lose on quarter final.

If you want to see the exact report go to the link, i try to give the more important information (i never say the chancellor T0 but he have them in some of the game)
Depending on the game, the in was always Contagion or Vengeful Pharaoh and sometimes the blu shoal and out 1 Phantasmagorian, 1 Brige from below, 1-3 Neither shadow

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Originally Posted by Xenio

He post a report on Legacy france : http://www.legacy-france.org/index.p...pic=12478&st=0
But it's in french.

This is a sum up on his event :

Round 1 : VS 4C Stoneblade
Game 1 : Swords and spell pierce use but nothing can stop the zombies
Game 2 : RIP T2, counter by force. And slowly kill by zombies

Round 2 : VS Eldrazi
Game 1 : 2 Warping Mail on Ichorid, nothing more from the opponent.
Game 2 : Vengeful Pharaoh kill 2 smasher, 3 Ichoride creat to more pressure for Eldrazi.

Round 3 : VS Grixis Delver
Game 1 : Chancellor + FOW make the enemy slower, a late DRS come but Dread return on wirlpool into FLayer into Golgary close the game.
Game 2 : Double chancellor but delver hurt a lot, and take the game.
Game 3 : Enemy got Delver but not shaman, he can't run faster than dredge this time.

Round 4 : VS Elfe
Game 1 : Combo battle, dredge take game 1.
Game 2 : DRS is a pain
Game 3 : No combo for the elf and no DRS, so easy game

Round 5 : BUG elf Opposition
Game 1 : Some miss play form the manaless deck make the game more equal (DRS when a shaman untap is here) but elf run out of mana and dredge win.
Game 2 : Thorn of Amethiste is a pain in the ass sometimes
Game 3 : Double DRS :frown:

Round 6 : VS Elf
Game 1 : Dredge combo faster
Game 2 : Contagion kill lyanowar and dryad arbor. Behemoth get force. (Force op)

Round 7 : VS Sneak and show
Game 1 : Show and tell played Griselbrand in a side, Chancellor in the other. Chancelor is boring for the opponent =) Dredge kill T4.
Game 2 : Showand tell who fizzle (don't kill on the turn). Flayer kill him.

Round 8 : VS Eldrazi
Game 1 : Only aggro from Eldrazi Dredge kill with Flayer
Game 2 : Leyline of the void
Game 3 : Leyline of the void

Round 9 : VS 4C delver
Game 1 : Only delver, so no problem
Game 2 : Same

So 7-2 only loosing against Eldrazi and BUG elf opposition.

A sick lose on quarter final.

If you want to see the exact report go to the link, i try to give the more important information (i never say the chancellor T0 but he have them in some of the game)
Depending on the game, the in was always Contagion or Vengeful Pharaoh and sometimes the blu shoal and out 1 Phantasmagorian, 1 Brige from below, 1-3 Neither shadow

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Thank you Xenio! Pretty interesting stuff, certainly a lot of fairness in the room (which means that g1 FoW wasn't entirely necessary), though seems like the blanket utility of FoW was also useful enough - it it looked strong post-board. Would love to see Rollan make some comments on The Source, since judging from the French Legacy forum there's a lot interesting points he's made, though Google Translate is kind of garbling the information for me. >_<

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Originally Posted by ChemicalBurns

I think I understand why our opinions on Force diverge so much. It's really a matter of perspective of how we perceive the deck.

I feel that you, and I'm sure many others (though correct me if I'm wrong) see Manaless as purely a "metagame deck" that can only shine in grindy, midrangey, controlly metagames with a lack of combo and a bountiful amounts of Deathrite Shamans - if this isn't the case, just play another deck.

And this is true to some extent, as Manaless will always shine brightest in metagames low on graveyard hate, and indeed I'm not going to be piloting it in a field of Leylines etc. However, when I build my list, I suppose I aim for overall raw power and ability to interact with a much wider field, taking into account that I will likely play against combo and unexpected things. And hence, we come to main deck Force of Will. I suppose Force of Will in the main pushes the deck's power level for a more general field upwards, but reduces its strength against a more narrow metagame that you've been targeting Fortune - while also adding potential inconsistencies in the deck too. Power vs. Consistency, the usual trade-off within much deck design, is at the forefront of this decision.

With Prized Amalgam's printing, adding Force to elevate the deck above its previous niche status as a "metagame deck", and into a deck that can be strong in a more open metagame, seemed like a consideration; and aiming to do this is what I have been, and will be doing, as I tune my list going forward. However, while doing so, I'll be deeply considering your words above. Maybe it is just better to let Manaless be a monster of unprepared metagames and not dilute the deck. Or maybe both pathways are equally valid - Rollan's Top 8 with FoW Manaless at BoM Paris seems to indicate that the deck can take down more open metagames. In the end, let's just keep testing and move forward from there.

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I was one of the guys who originally came up with MD Force of Will, I say this so you know I've been on both sides of the argument. The thing that I think a lot of people over look is that spells in general decrease the consistency of the deck, because you are losing creature density for Nether Spirit activations, which decreases Prized Amalgram activations, which delays Dread Return etc. It's the main reason I have never liked Gitaxian Probe, and you start to realize a lot of questionable cards are attached to FoW.

I am not saying FoW is bad or that Fow builds can't win, I'm just saying it isn't necessarily the end all be all for the archetype and a lot of us who have played the deck since inception mainly keep doing so because of its consistency and as a meta breaker.

TLDR keep playing FoW, not because its best but because it lets those of us who aren't bluff ;)

Just got back home from Eternal Weekend. Played the following list.


4 Ichorid
4 Narcomoeba
4 Prized Amalgam
3 Nether Shadow
4 Bridge from Below
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Golgari Thug
2 Shambling Shell
4 Phantasmagorian
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Force of Will
4 Street Wraith
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Dread Return
1 Flayer of the Hatebound
2 Whirlpool Rider

Sideboard
3 Disrupting Shoal
3 Faerie Macabre
3 Vengeful Pharaoh
3 Contagion
3 Leyline of Sanctity

Here's my abbreviated report

Round 1 vs Belcher
Game 1: He goes to combo on turn 1 but I have FoW.
Game 2: I keep a semi-fast hand with Phantasmagorian, Grave-troll, Street Wraith, a FoW and some other non blue cards. He goes to kill me on turn 1. I have to cycle street wraith in response to him casting Charbelcher to find a blue card. I did.
W 2-0. Overall Record 1-0 (2-0 in games)

Round 2 vs Abzan
Game 1: He starts on turn 1 Deathrite Shaman. His turn 2 he goes to remove my Grave-Troll but I have Street Wraith. He eats a few Ichorids over the next few turns but I'm able to combo him out.
Game 2: He mulligans to 3 to try and find Leyline of the Void. Doesn't find it. He "time walks" me for a few turns with a Thoughtseize and Inquisition of Kozilek but after those run out, I beat him down with an Ichorid and some zombies.
W 2-0. Overall Record 2-0 (4-0 in games)

Round 3 vs Grixis Delver
Game 1: Another turn 1 Deathrite Shaman for my Stinkweed Imp but again I have Street Wraith. He doesn't have anything else going on and it's pretty elementary for me to win.
Game 2: I keep an opening hand that beats Deathrite Shaman but I lose to Grafdiggers Cage.
Game 3: I adjust my sideboarding to have a few more outs to Cage. I mulligan to 6 and reluctantly keep a hand that can't beat Cage but does still beat Deathrite Shaman. He has Cage.
L 1-2. Overall Record 2-1 (5-2 in games)

Round 4 vs UR Delver
Game 1: My opponent mulligans to 5 and is never really in this game. He bolts me a bit but can't interact with my horde of undead.
Game 2: My opening 7 includes 0 dredgers, 3 Narcomoeba's, and 0 probes/street wraiths for redraws. My 6 is not much better with 0 dredgers, 2 Narcomoeba's, and 1 Gitaxian probe. I never draw a dredger. I die pretty quickly
Game 3: Things play out normally with him bolting me early and playing a Delver but after a few turns he dies to dudes.
W 2-1. Overall Record 3-1 (7-3 in games)

Round 5 vs UR Delver
Game 1: My opponent mulligans to 6 and does nothing but play some lands. His life total goes from 20 to 16 to 0.
Game 2: He comes out of the gates early with a Delver that doesn't flip and 2 Monastery Swiftspears. Game state is those 3 creatures in play for him. I'm at 6 life with a zombie and Prized Amalgam. 2 Bridges in the yard. I sacrifice the amalgam to cabal therapy him and name Force of Will, miss but see a chain lightning. I only have a single dread return as my only other sacrifice outlet and no Whirlpool Rider to get with it. I do have Flayer. Can't let the delver flip or I die. I sac the 3 zombies to dread return the Flayer hitting my opponent for 4. EoT, 2 Prized Amaglams come back. I place the flayer triggers on the stack targeting the Delver of Secrets and my own Flayer. This lets the Flayer die getting me 2 zombies to block his swiftspears, undying triggers bringing back flayer to dome my opponent for 5, then finally the first flayer trigger resolves killing my opponent's Delver. My opponent still has the out of ripping a bolt spell to kill me but misses.
W 2-0. Overall Record 4-1 (9-3 in games)

Round 6 vs Miracles
Game 1: Game plays according to script and I slowly grind him out making sure to not over commit too many Ichorid's into Terminus.
Game 2: He tries to Surgical Extraction an early Grave-Troll but I have the Street Wraith. He does manage to Snapcaster back the extraction on my Bridges. This game goes long and as I'm trying to close it out, he lands an Izzet Staticaster to keep 3 Ichorids in check and only take damage from a Narcomoeba. This goes on for 2 turns. I see a dredge that puts 2 more Narcomoebas in play to increase the clock. I have a Dread Return that I can cash in these narcos to put a large Grave Troll in play and force a block from the staticaster but decide against it to play around Swords to Plowshares and Jace, TMS. On my opponents next turn he staticasters my Narcos and slams Containment Priest.
Game 3: He slams an early Mentor and goes to race. I'm at 11. He attacks me with 5 2/2 monks and a Snapcaster mage. I have 5 zombies and a tapped amalgam in play. I block 3 monks with 3 zombies to leave me with 3 guaranteed dudes in play to try and combo him out on my next turn. He Brainstorms into another Brainstorm and StP to kill me.
L 1-2. Overall Record 4-2 (10-5 in games)

Round 7 vs Miracles
Game 1: Nothing fancy here. Just good, old fashioned zombie beat down.
Game 2: Things go pretty well with my opponent pondering and brainstorming to find stuff to interact with me. There comes a point where he has 2 cards in hand and I know one is good because he kept it on top with a ponder and just drew it. He's tapped out so I narrow it down to naming cards i can't beat. Rest in Peace vs. Containment Priest. I go for the creature and snipe it from his hand. He then miracles an Entreat the Angels for 3 to my board of a single zombie. My dredge hits a Whirlpool Rider which allows me to combo kill him.
W 2-0. Overall Record 5-2 (12-5 in games)

Round 8 vs Storm
Game 1: He makes 12 goblins on turn 1. I am able to put 2 nether shadows in play with a chance (albeit very small) to hit an amazing dredge 6 and hopefully kill him. Didn't get there.
Game 2: I land a Leyline of Sanctity to shut off tendrils. Turn 2 he goes through the motions to make some mana and cast a burning wish and crack LED in response. I have Disrupting Shoal + Narcomoeba for it.
Game 3: I land Leyline again but don't have any countermagic. He makes 12 goblins and gets me down to 6. I have an Amalgam in play and an Ichorid coming back on my upkeep. No bridges in the yard. I have the 3rd dude I need to go off in the form of a second Ichorid stuck in my hand. No Phantasmagorians in the yard either. EoT I cycle a Street Wraith and dredge 6. A Narco or Phantasmagorian probably win me the game (not guaranteed but close). Miss on both. Ichorid comes back in upkeep. Dredge another 6 for my draw. 2x Narco, 2x Bridge, or one of each probably win me the game. I hit bridge but no narco and lose.
L 1-2. Overall Record 5-3 (13-7 in games)

Round 9 vs Belcher
Game 1: He makes 8 goblins on turn 2 which I am able to answer with enough zombies to stop his attacking. A few turns later I combo him out.
Game 2: I muligan to 6 and keep on a reasonably fast hand with Stinkweed, Street Wraith, Narcomoeba, Disrupting Shoal and 2 other cards. He makes 8 goblins on turn 1 casting no 2-mana spells. Due to my mulligan, I can't keep up.
Game 3: He's on the play. I keep with a dredger, a FoW, and some other blue cards in hand. He plays Chrome Mox. Resolves. Imprint Simian Spirit Guide. Chrome Mox. Resolves. Imprint Simian Spirit Guide. Cast Rite of Flame. At this point he has 2 cards left. One has to be either Empty the Warrens or Charbelcher. The other I assume is a mana source. If he has Ritual+Belcher I can counter either so I should let Rite resolve. If he has Ritual + Empty I should let Rite resolve and counter the next ritual. If he has Spirit Guide+Belcher I can counter Belcher so I should let Rite resolve. I let Rite of Flames resolve completely forgetting about and neglecting the last scenario. If he has Spirit Guide+Empty I need to counter this Rite of Flame. He has Spirit Guide + Empty and makes 8 goblins and I don't find enough with my dredges to combo him before he kills me.
L 1-2. Overall Record 5-4 (14-9 in games)

Round 10 vs Chipotle Burrito
Game 1: I crush his Carnitas and vegetables in about 6 minutes.
Game 2: He sides in Chips and Guacamole but I am able to dispatch them too rather quickly

It was great to finally make it out and jam Dredge again. My rust showed but I had a ton of fun and all my opponents were pleasant for the most part. I know I made some mistakes and could have made other plays that would have put me in better positions to win. There were also a couple of times where variance didn't go my way but that is to be expected with a deck like this.

The deck feels insane. Manaless Dredge does not get enough credit for being a "real" deck. I loved the blue package. I don't think I would play this deck without at least FoW in the 75. The verdict is still out on Shoal but I was super glad I had it. I don't have enough reps in with Chancellor of the Annex to say whether or not I prefer it in the list I did play. I sided out Shambling Shell a lot so 2x Chancellor would fit right there making the main deck exactly like ChemicalBurns. I'm just way to scared to not play 14 dredgers even if it may be correct to play 12. It did come up where I only had Shell as a dredger for one turn in game 2 against storm.

Take from this what you will. I had a blast and would run the event back again with the same 75 in a heartbeat.

@Sovelis: Congrats on the result, great report!

I had a 81 people tournament yesterday with the following list:

1 Flayer of the Hatebound
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Golgari Thug
4 Ichorid
4 Narcomoeba
2 Nether Shadow
4 Phantasmagorian
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Street Wraith
4 Bridge from Below
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Dread Return
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Prized Amalgam
3 Chancellor of the Annex
2 Whirlpool Rider
4 Force of Will
SB: 3 Contagion
SB: 3 Faerie Macabre
SB: 4 Disrupting Shoal
SB: 3 Vengeful Pharaoh
SB: 1 Chancellor of the Annex
SB: 1 Ashen Rider

Round 1: Miracles (2-1)

G1 I had him at 7 life when he slammed down a Rest in Peace. I just looked at him asking "mainboard?". Turned out he played a combo package consisting of 4 Rest in Peace, 3 Helm of Obedience and 3 Enlightened Tutor. G2 I was in aggro mode, when he played an Energy Field. Luckily I dredged a Cabal Therapy, hit a Force of Will and killed him. G3 he was sitting on 1 land with RIP and double FoW backup on his hand. I just killed him and couldn't believe I really took down 4 RIP (+3 Enlightened Tutor) mainboard.

Record: 1-0

Round 2: Junk (0-2)

G1 I had to mull a hand without any dredgers plus 2 Narcos and couldn't race a T3 Batterskull off Stoneforge Mystic. G2 he starts with Deathrite Shaman eating my Ichorids. I had enough dredgers though because of Phantasmagorian. Well Dark Confidant drew him a Rest in Peace I couldn't handle.

Record: 1-1

Round 3: Aluren (2-0)

Daaamn Chancellor is so good vs Aluren, shuts down the whole combo. Chancellor took G1. G2 my opponent had to mull down to 4 cards. I had a fast start with Street Wraith and I think Gitaxian Probe. On my second turn he had 1 land in play and 4 cards on hand. I had a playset of Therapies in my graveyard and enough creatures to cast all of them. I took his whole hand by the second turn (incl. Containment Priest and Scavenging Ooze). Yup, he was kinda sad after that.

Record: 2-1

Round 4: Shardless BUG (2-0)

In G1 he had a T2 Deathrite Shaman (I think Chancellor delayed that for a turn) but I just overpowered him with creatures. Same thing in G2. His life total went from 20 to 16 to 0.

Record: 3-1

Round 5: BURG goodstuff (1-2)

He had 2 Inquisition of Kozilek in the first two turns followed by 2 Deathrite Shamans. I don't remember how, but I won G1. In the two postboard games he just had too damn much hate. 3 Deathrite Shamans and 1 Nihil Spellbomb on G2, 2 Deathrite Shamans and 2 Nihil Spellbombs on G3 plus several Daze each game, which slowed me down pretty well. I could always handle 1-2 Deathrites, but in total it was just too much hate to deal with.

Record: 3-2

Round 6: Eldrazi (0-2)

G1: T1 Mimic --> T2 Smasher --> T3 Thought-Knot Seer
G2: Leyline

Record: 3-3

Round 7: Burn (2-0)

He didn't get what was going on, my whole deck was a mystery to him plus he had bad hands. He mulled to 6 in G1 and to 5 in G2 (couldn't find his Relics). In G1 I beat him down on T3 with 3 Amalgams, 3 Ichorid and 2 Nether Shadow. In G2 I combo killed him.

Record: 4-3

I finished on 21st place out of 81 contestants, which is fine I guess.

_____


My thoughts to the list: Force of Will was completely unneccesary the whole tournament (at least G1). I'm thinking about moving them to the sideboard and adding the 4th Chancellor and more redundancy to the maindeck, but I'm not really sure.

What are your experiences vs Death n Taxes? I dodged all of them yesterday, but there were at least 9/81 DnT players there. I feel like G1 is already hard vs Thalia 1 and Thalia 2 and postboard RIP and Priest make it even harder. How do you sideboard?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Snowfire

My thoughts to the list: Force of Will was completely unneccesary the whole tournament (at least G1). I'm thinking about moving them to the sideboard and adding the 4th Chancellor and more redundancy to the maindeck, but I'm not really sure.

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Maybe Force is not amazing game 1 but it's really good against a lot of combo G1, i think choosing between chancellor and FOW depend on the meta.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Snowfire

What are your experiences vs Death n Taxes? I dodged all of them yesterday, but there were at least 9/81 DnT players there. I feel like G1 is already hard vs Thalia 1 and Thalia 2 and postboard RIP and Priest make it even harder. How do you sideboard?

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Ichoride make you win.
Force is need against RIP, they will fear the spped of your deck so they will often use it T2 on not T3 with a Thalia in the board.
I Side in 3 Vengeful Pharaoh, never side out your creature and remove 1 bridge, 1 phantasmagorian, 1 Dread return (i'm a crazy man with 3 contagion MD). You can remove Flayer and other dread return, combo is nearly useless against D&T with Thalia and Swords.