[Primer] Nic Fit

Interesting how the BUG lists cut green sun and don't even run 4 explorer. I really liked having a Planeswalker that I could Green Sun for in Nissa, Vastwood Seer. How has it been for everyone else? I like that I can play a land to transform her and then in response to a removal spell fetch to trigger her again. Seems like it could be a massive blowout.

I put together this list for my weekly. It was pretty sweet.

4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Sakura Tribe Elder
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Renegade Rallier
1 Eternal Witness
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1 Giant Solifuge
2 Siege Rhino
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 SwagTUSK
1 Woodland Bellower

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Nissa, Vital Force (holy shit why is this card only like $4)
1 Garruk Relentless
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Painful Truths
3 Swords to Plowshares (I don't care that they gain life over PTE. I never want to PTE a deathrite on turn 1)

like 10 Fetches,
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
2 Savannah
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
(Will cut a couple fetches for towers whenever I get them)

SB kind of random stuff
2 To the Slaughter
2 Lost Legacy
2 Carpet of Flowers
2 Pithing Needle
2 Stony Silence
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Painful truths
2 Plow Under (I just want to cast this fucking card so bad, might buy 2 more and 3 more EWitness and Play Plow Under Nic Fit)

Went 2-2 beating Miracles and some awful BUG Power artifact deck and lost to Food Chain and Miracles but man I had a blast. I really like Giant Solifuge as a hasty threat that can generally kill off a jace off of a green sun and they really can only terminus it ensuring that the next time you draw a Green Sun it can come right back. Card is super sick. For real.

What do you guys think about that new Croc? Four mana for a 5/4 haste that can kill our Explorer when it comes into play. It could theoretically serve as a Rhino in a straight G/B list. Probably not good enough despite the synergy I suppose.

I enjoy playing a copy of Nissa in my gsz-less list, she is powerful in part for the reason you describe, though I only have the one tutor: traverse.


I think this deck is likely made most powerful by trying to simultaneously minimize the dependence on veteran explorers while maximizing the power of them, this means playing a somewhat smaller than traditional nic fit deck. This in turn lead me to cut a veteran explorer, as I often don't need to trigger it to win, but trigggering it usually does lead to a win.

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Originally Posted by Purple Blood

What do you guys think about that new Croc? Four mana for a 5/4 haste that can kill our Explorer when it comes into play. It could theoretically serve as a Rhino in a straight G/B list. Probably not good enough despite the synergy I suppose.

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I think he's really sweet. Getting a haste guy that can be found with green sun is awesome. I also like the synergy like described with Explorer of him. That was also my first thought when I saw it in the spoiler. Is there any other way to abuse putting -1 -1 stuff on our dudes outside of rebuying Undying guys?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Purple Blood

What do you guys think about that new Croc? Four mana for a 5/4 haste that can kill our Explorer when it comes into play. It could theoretically serve as a Rhino in a straight G/B list. Probably not good enough despite the synergy I suppose.

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Well, @4 mana (or 5, if you GSZ for it) you probably won't be killing off an Explorer with it. It's more likely that you either turn the Croc itself into a 4/3 or dump the counter on a creature you don't want to attack with anyways. DRS comes to mind. Or Qasali Pridemage/Tireless Tracker/Scavenging Ooze.

When unopposed it's a faster clock than Rhino (it does 20 damage in the time Rhino does 15), but when facing blockers Rhino quickly becomes better.

I could see it as maybe a 1-off in a Rhino slot. Vs. Miracles it can be a pretty good Jace killer as long as they don't have removal for a turn, so there's that too.

Edit: If you have to turn your Croc into a 4/3, it's still a slightly better clock than Rhino (16 damage in the time Rhino does 15), but in that case I'd try to GSZ for Rhino.

I'm happy that people started to adopt the solifuge tech, although I still think it is a sideboard card. With gsz we effectively have 5 copies and with 2T we can recur it indefinitely if it gets blocked by a surprise snapcaster. The spider comes in even against random decks like storm show and tell and burn, when I basically cut all the big guns from the deck.

Regarding the croc, the card is hilarious. For shits and giggles I will brew a 8 rhino 8 crocs deck that aims to power out giant monster asap. No walkers no utility creatures, only 8 rhinocrocs and painful truths to reload.
The croc passes the deed test which is a bonus.

Josh,

How was Rallier? How about having no Tops?

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Originally Posted by rubblekill

Regarding the croc, the card is hilarious. For shits and giggles I will brew a 8 rhino 8 crocs deck that aims to power out giant monster asap. No walkers no utility creatures, only 8 rhinocrocs and painful truths to reload.
The croc passes the deed test which is a bonus.

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That's pretty epic.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sdematt

Josh,

How was Rallier? How about having no Tops?

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He lives!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sdematt

Josh,

How was Rallier? How about having no Tops?

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Rallier was pretty mediocre. This deck isn't quite as hellbent it seems on murdering opposing deathrites so he shuts off rallier easily. He's like a big Wood Elves most matches probably because he's just getting a fetch most of the time. Probably a cut, I just have a love affair with the card. No tops was generally fine? I went for more raw card advantage with truths and such rather than durdle with tops. I rarely was empty handed. It was limited testing though so maybe top is worth it. Not gonna lie, some of the stuff in my list is there because I thought it would be fun though more than good.

Here's a terrible Croc fit list I came up with last night for fun

4 Veteran Explorer
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Strangleroot Geist
3 Crocodile of the Crossing
2 Dreg Mangler
1 Giant Solifuge
3 Geralf's Messenger

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Nissa, Vital Force
3 Fatal Push
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Unearth

I think I'd rather squeeze in Saskia then play the Croc. Still I'm Pondering on a 4c list in those Colors but i am not yet sure what exact direction to take it.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G935F met Tapatalk

There's also these guys:

Channeler Initiate
1G
Creature - Human Druid, Rare
When Channeler Initiate enters the battlefield, put three -1/-1 counters on target creature you control.
T, Remove a -1/-1 counter from Channeler Initiate: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.
3/4

Exemplar of Strength
1G
Creature - Human Warrior, Uncommon
When Exemplar of Strength enters the battlefield, put three -1/-1 counters on target creature you control.
Whenever Exemplar of Strength attacks, remove a -1/-1 counter from it. If you do, you gain 1 life.
4/4

If you explorer into those you basically have a goyf and a bunch of mana when you untap. They seem like shit topdecks though.

What about this thing?

Rhona's Monument
3
Legendary Artifact, Uncommon
Green creature spells you cast cost 1 less to cast.
Whenever you cast a creature spell, target creature you control gets +2/+2 and gains trample until end of turn.

Reduces costs on a bunch of our guys and makes our late explorers into mini-Giant Growths (plus trample to push damage through)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by maharis

There's also these guys:

Channeler Initiate
1G
Creature - Human Druid, Rare
When Channeler Initiate enters the battlefield, put three -1/-1 counters on target creature you control.
T, Remove a -1/-1 counter from Channeler Initiate: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.
3/4

Exemplar of Strength
1G
Creature - Human Warrior, Uncommon
When Exemplar of Strength enters the battlefield, put three -1/-1 counters on target creature you control.
Whenever Exemplar of Strength attacks, remove a -1/-1 counter from it. If you do, you gain 1 life.
4/4

If you explorer into those you basically have a goyf and a bunch of mana when you untap. They seem like shit topdecks though.

What about this thing?

Rhona's Monument
3
Legendary Artifact, Uncommon
Green creature spells you cast cost 1 less to cast.
Whenever you cast a creature spell, target creature you control gets +2/+2 and gains trample until end of turn.

Reduces costs on a bunch of our guys and makes our late explorers into mini-Giant Growths (plus trample to push damage through)

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I could see Rhonas monument maybe in the aggressive rhino builds. It pushes the deck into a more aggressive role which I know some people think is not where Nic Fit wants to be.

I think it could warrant testing.

I am not sure how relevant the +2/+2 would be. It could help close out games faster which I feel like is something Rhino builds struggle with sometimes. If you durdle too much it can sometimes prepare other decks to deal with your threats once you start to land them.

Channeler Initiate is probably worth keeping an eye on with an eye towards that archaic Sakura-Tribe Elder slot. Steve is likely still better, but Channeler is a weird enough card that it's going to be hard to effectively evaluate it without trying to use it.

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

Channeler Initiate is probably worth keeping an eye on with an eye towards that archaic Sakura-Tribe Elder slot. Steve is likely still better, but Channeler is a weird enough card that it's going to be hard to effectively evaluate it without trying to use it.

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And here I was thinking "man I wish that Croc was slightly smaller with lower cost." :laugh:

I really like the design of this guy in general. A mana dork that becomes a useful body later in the game. Not that relevant for Legacy but its pretty sweet in limited.

Would have been nice if you could spread the counters over multiple creatures. That way you'd have the flexibility of deciding if you want some more ramp/color fixing or just a bigger body in addition to to killing off an Explorer. Even then 3 mana GSZ that nets you two lands and a 3/4 ain't too shabby.

With all these -1/-1 counter effect I'm sure there are going to be a number of cards that might play well with this deck. Looking forward to more spoilers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by maharis

...
Rhona's Monument
3
Legendary Artifact, Uncommon
Green creature spells you cast cost 1 less to cast.
Whenever you cast a creature spell, target creature you control gets +2/+2 and gains trample until end of turn.

Reduces costs on a bunch of our guys and makes our late explorers into mini-Giant Growths (plus trample to push damage through)

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I'm not sold on any of them. The Monument benefits green creatures (yes), but also provides a perk for casting them (meh). If you GSZ, this thing does not trigger. And the card itself does nothing on the table, yet costs 3 mana. The other problem with Monument is that it's legendary -- so you couldn't even stack a few of them on the table. The only upside of this card is the potential for a topdeck creature to generate "value" but I'd actually rather have something else in the deck entirely. I can't help but think even Garruk 1.0 or Garruk flipmaster is better for 1 additional mana.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by maharis

Channeler Initiate
1G
Creature - Human Druid, Rare
When Channeler Initiate enters the battlefield, put three -1/-1 counters on target creature you control.
T, Remove a -1/-1 counter from Channeler Initiate: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.
3/4

Exemplar of Strength
1G
Creature - Human Warrior, Uncommon
When Exemplar of Strength enters the battlefield, put three -1/-1 counters on target creature you control.
Whenever Exemplar of Strength attacks, remove a -1/-1 counter from it. If you do, you gain 1 life.
4/4

If you explorer into those you basically have a goyf and a bunch of mana when you untap. They seem like shit topdecks though.

What about this thing?

Rhona's Monument
3
Legendary Artifact, Uncommon
Green creature spells you cast cost 1 less to cast.
Whenever you cast a creature spell, target creature you control gets +2/+2 and gains trample until end of turn.

Reduces costs on a bunch of our guys and makes our late explorers into mini-Giant Growths (plus trample to push damage through)

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Initiate is too slow/weak. A two mana manadork needs to make mana on the turn you cast it. This is why Lotus Cobra doesn't work, if you use a land drop on T2, it provides no benefit until T3. Steve sort of gets around this because it provides a land. If you want this to provide board presence you're looking at a turn to play it, 3 turns to tap it, then a turn to attack. 5 turns is much, much too long to get any real benefit.

Exemplar is a 2 mana 1/1 that doesn't do anything extra.

The monument is interesting, but I would still say no. If we were interested in that type of effect we could have it less narrow, and for a lower mana cost, by using Emerald Medallion.

I think Croc is most playable, and even then it's not good. I think the mana dork guy is not that great. If you could use it to kill off explorer plus put some counters on him to keep him as a mana dork for a turn or two maybe.

Also new cycling ORing seems sweet in Nyx Fit. Cycle it and then get it back later with starfield. Love it.

Hello Ulysse95, I was the guy that also played Sneak Fit this Eternal Weekend at BOM. I played it three days straight and my results were dissapointing. This is why you really made my day yesterday when my mate Chatto pointed out your post to me here and I read you went 5-0 on the Trial! Congratulations! It’s great to hear Sneak Fit is capable of beating the best of the Legacy decks and your write up was a good read.

Like said, my results were mediocre. This has to do with a lot of things, but mostly because I am unexperienced with the deck, I've only played Stompy decks before: Big Red, Soldier Stompy and Dragon Stompy. This resulted in 3 (!) draws on day 1 at the Trial with no breaks between the rounds, which was very exhausting. This is why I also didn’t make notes of my games (something I try to do most of the time).

The list I ran day 1:

4 Veteran Explorers
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Inferno Titan
1 Primeval Titan
1 Thragtusk
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Fierce Empath
1 Sidisi, Undead Vizier
1 Eternal Witness

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun’s Zenith
4 Sneak Attack
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Sensei’s Divining Top

1 Nissa, Vital Force
1 Garruk, Relentless

4 Wooded Foothills
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Bayou
2 Badlands
1 Taiga
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
2 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath’s Stronghold

SB
2 Carpet of Flowers
2 To the Slaughter
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Thoughtseize
2 Golgari Charm
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Nissa, Vital Force
1 Obstinate Baloth

This is what I faced (for what I can remember, I wrote it down here):

Day 1 Friday Trial

Round 1 – Grixis Delver 1-1
Game 1 was a beatdown of 2 Gurmag Anglers. I could cast Thragtusk while I am on 1 life trading of with 1 Angler. A deathtouch Wolf token of Garruk could kill off the other but couldn’t block a Delver that finished me.
Game 2 was very fast because I managed to activate a hasty Verdant’s Stronghold – Prime Time lockdown while having a Sneak Attack in play. Good times!
Game 3 was difficult: Sneak Attack got countered, Pernicious Deed activated once but he managed to exile all copies from my deck (and hand!) with 2 Surgicals on Sneak and Deed. We couldn’t kill eachother fast enough and ended in a draw.

Round 2 – U/B Death Shadow 1-1
Don’t remember much of our plays and like said, I didn’t have time to make notes.
Game 1 I was very surprised to see a modern deck in Legacy, and Death’s Shadow proved very good, I had no answers.
Game 2 was very close but Scavenging Ooze and Obstinate Baloth helped me to stay in life and go to G3, but again, no time left to finish. Again a draw.

Round 3 – Miracles 1-1
Miracles is what I hoped to see and I did. Forgot much of the action because the games were loooong.
Game 1 I hit twice with Cabal Therapy and his hand wasn’t good anymore. I closed out with Sneaking in Emmy.
Game 2 he won but I can’t recall anything. I think it were 3 Angel tokens. The only thing I remember is one of my To the Slaughters takes out a Vendilion Clique and a Jace. I began to be getting real hungry and needed a break, but didn’t get one as we ran into time G3.

Round 4 – Eldrazi Stompy 1-2
Game 1 I believe I had a Sneak Attack real fast, Zenithing for 4 into Fierce Empath for the win as he damaged himself with Ancient Tombs.
Game 2 I believe he had the Pithing Needle real fast set on Sneak and he just was faster.
Game 3 was close but he managed to win fast with trampling Reality Smasher. Ouch.
I feel Sneak Fit has a game against Eldrazi, but I just didn't have it.

Round 5 – Turbo Depths 2-0
This wasn’t really a win because my opponent conceded after turn 3 to join the 15:00 Trial in time,
Finishing 1-1-3 in the end.

Day 2 Main Event

Deck-changes:

-1 Eternal Witness
+1 Nissa Vital Force to the main from SB
Because I felt I was going to face Miracles Day 2 even more and Eternal Witness proved to be not that useful and very slow day 1.

+1 Maelstrom Pulse to the sideboard
Because it did NOT feel good loosing to Eldrazi and having no answers. Needing more answers to Pithing Needle as well.

Again, I did not make notes of my games. I was a bit nervous and needed all the time between rounds to eat, drink and stay relaxed/focussed. This is what I remember:

Round 1 – Shardless BUG 1-1
Game 1 started of good. He plays Ancestral Visions and cascades, but he didn’t counter my Sneak Attack and my Emmy attacks. He makes a play mistake by not blocking with his Baleful Strix and concedes instead of saccing 6 other permanents and just block to stay in the game.
Game 2 was grindy but he managed to cast Liliana, discard, take out a creature and cast the other Liliana. In the end Jace keeps me under control. I didn’t give up but I should’ve surrendered to go to G3 faster and try to win, because now G3 was only 5 rounds and again, resulting in a draw. This begins to be annoying, all those draws!

Round 2 – Aluren 1-1 ?
Game 1 started of just like Round 1, putting him on Shardless. With only 3 cards left in hand including a Cabal Therapy, I play it naming Hymn to Tourach, fearing I would lose my wincon (don’t remember my actual hand/boardstate, but I was well on my way winning, so I thought). But then he reveals the Aluren combo and next turn he goes of while at 7 life!
G2 was better, I had the Sneak out, he didn’t expect that to happen. I think I remember I had the Verdant Stronghold – Primeval Titan loop again, taking him down with 10+ lands in play.
G3 I really could not remember, I even forgot how it ended but I believe he beat me down to 3 life and yet again, I believe I go into a draw.

Round 3 – Cloudpost MUD 2-0
Game 1 he mulls to 5, playing Cloudpost, go. I Cabal Therapy naming Metalworker and I miss. He plays some Posts, gets some life, but no real action. I resolve a turn 4 Inferno Titan and he scoops.
G2 he mulls again but resolves a quick Steel Hellkite, taking me down to 7 life. I SDT into To the Slaughter saving my ass. After that I believe I cast Sneak Attack and find an Emmy of Top.

Round 4 – Infect 0-2
My discard didn’t matter, he poisoned me real quick both games. Finally a could have a break.

Round 5 – Miracles 0-1
This was an experienced Miracles player. My focus however went downhill during this match, resulting in some stupid mistakes from my side. Lack of sleep and lack of experience in this matchup took me down in the end.

Round 6 – Eldrazi Stompy 0-2
Like the above, only worse, now making rookie-mistakes I don’t even want to talk about here. Interesting fact: I mulled down to 4 and almost won game 1! Almost, that is..

After this match, me and my friends decided to drop as we are all tired and don’t do that well that day. Lessons learned, moving on.

Day 3 Sunday Trial

Deck-changes:

-1 Sidisi, Undead Vizier
+1 Diabolic Intend
Never cast Sidisi and wanted to try a faster way to kill Vet and search.

-1 Scavenging Ooze to the board
+1 Reclamation Sage from the board
All my games I switched in Rec Sage for the Ooze in fear of Needle. Also better G1 against Miracles.

-1 Nissa Vital Force to the board
+1 additional Fierce Empath
Wanted to have another combo piece cheap enough to Zenith for.

-1 Golgari Charm
Never used this so I left only a 1-of in the board.

Round 1 – Death and Taxes 0-2
Round 2 – Cloudpost Prison 0-2
Round 3 – Dream Halls 0-2
Round 4 – Bye
Round 5 – Aluren 1-2

I was out of luck on Sunday I guess, this time not making big mistakes at all but got blown out instead. But I never lost faith in the deck and love to give it another spin. The deck deserves it and I really feel it makes me become a better player. Besides, I haven’t faced half of the decks that are out there yet.

I will definitely try 2 mainboard Collective Brutality. All 3 days I felt I didn’t have enough MD discard especially against infect.

Ulysse, against what decks do you side in Slaughter Games? Are these not too slow against combo? Do you use them against Miracles as well? I left my copies at home last weekend but now I am undecided. Would love to hear your opinion about that.
Also, don’t we need some untargeted creature removal in Sneak Fit, a la To the Slaughter or Diabolic Edict in the side, just in case Dark Depths happens, or against reanimator?

Another question: How do you feel about Woodland Bellower? Isn't Sidisi or even Diabolic Intend just better overall? Didn't test him yet though.

Many thanks in advance!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Megadeus

I think Croc is most playable, and even then it's not good. I think the mana dork guy is not that great. If you could use it to kill off explorer plus put some counters on him to keep him as a mana dork for a turn or two maybe.

Also new cycling ORing seems sweet in Nyx Fit. Cycle it and then get it back later with starfield. Love it.

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Croc is interesting but slightly too weak I think. It's worth a second and even a third look because just about every green creature with haste is intended to be pushed to constructed playable levels, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's pushed to Legacy playable levels. I don't think it's quite where we want to be though. Surrak, the Hunt Caller has the same 5/4 haste stats but wasn't good enough because it's too hard to maintain board presence. I think the croc is going to run into the same issue, and that the -1/-1 counter is going to be a bigger deal than you think. Reducing it to just a 4/3 changes things significantly, as does reducing the stats of a smaller creature and rendering it unable to attack. Rhino is just much better here, that 3 point ETB is damn close to haste as it is, and a 4/5 trample is just a much better body on the field.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Brael

Croc is interesting but slightly too weak I think. It's worth a second and even a third look because just about every green creature with haste is intended to be pushed to constructed playable levels, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's pushed to Legacy playable levels. I don't think it's quite where we want to be though. Surrak, the Hunt Caller has the same 5/4 haste stats but wasn't good enough because it's too hard to maintain board presence. I think the croc is going to run into the same issue, and that the -1/-1 counter is going to be a bigger deal than you think. Reducing it to just a 4/3 changes things significantly, as does reducing the stats of a smaller creature and rendering it unable to attack. Rhino is just much better here, that 3 point ETB is damn close to haste as it is, and a 4/5 trample is just a much better body on the field.

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Rhino doesn't hit planeswalkers though. Not saying that makes this better than Rhino just pointing out some added use for the Croc.

Of course I have to be brewing an 8 RhinoCroc.dec. That's way too sweet.