Ruby Storm

Haven't had time to play. Only 2 leagues in the last 2 months. If you want to 5-0 it usually means 5-10 leagues.

I don't think led implies you should modify the deck to fit infernal tutor. It's very clunky without cantrips and the appeal of this deck is so you don't have to the same crap as every other storm deck. (cantrips, discard and a 3+ color mana base) I don't care about cost, I own lots of fbb blue duals. I don't particularly like getting hosed by wasteland and stifle.

Is this deck the best storm deck? Depends on your matchup.

I didn't play led for a while, eventually when I caved in and sleeved them up, the deck improved. This was the same with Gitaxian Probe and running a non-zero amount of empty maindeck. Im still on the fence about guttersnipe as I never want to see this card in multiples vs many matchups.

ANT TES tinfins and Doomsday rely on discard and cantrips. (reanimator is just discard, but at least it is unique.)

I'd argue that turbo depths fits the bill here too as a fast combo deck that relies on discard for interaction.

This is one of the few combo decks that can interact without discard by brute force.

This is a past in flames deck, and I think it utilizes it the best. All of your spells cost the same color mana or the cost is 2 life. Also running multiple means you can cast for value. (ant obviously can't because of ad nauseam, although I have seen some builds with 2 (still 2 less)

I have played all the combo decks you've listed, as well as others you haven't.

Being able to play competitively without discard or cantrips and not losing to 1-2 counters is the appeal of the deck for me.

However there is some other reasons :

Maindeck outs to cards like Thalia and Thorn of resistance

Having better game 1 vs chalice decks

Having a more stable manabase and the ability to run sol lands.

Has a chance to steal games with empty the warrens.

Can deal with lots of mass discard via pif and to a lesser extent, Reforge and AoI.

I've played ANT / TES (love them both for different reasons), Have played an unhealthy amount of Tin Fins, Have also Belched from time to time...

Biggest appeal (for me) to Ruby Storm instead of all of the above:

Ruby Storm is a mono-coloured engine sporting a wishboard full of answers to most situations and bombs to wreck the field. It has enough redundancy to outsmart blue decks, outrun tax effects and beat other combos. It plays differently than other storm decks and will take time to learn... be ready to lose lots at first. You should play pragmatically, mull aggressively and always force your opponent to play your game – not theirs.


I'm gonna echo Rob's words here: let's focus on moving Ruby Storm up the ranks as opposed to building a subpar version of it. Also: please read through the thread before contributing! We know it is a lot of content to go through but, well worth everyone's time. To make it easier for newcomers, we'll be expanding on the current primer very soon :smile:

Sorry to stamp in here, I've been running a budget list for just over 6 months for FNMs working and tinkering with the list to at least keep it viable for kids in the meta. While running Act on Impulse, it has always been pretty weak for me. I don't consider HUF to be better draw spell or combo initializer, I consider it a better continuation card. I run a full set of all 4 rituals making Past in Flames much better overall. I know most of you guys don't consider this style of list to be possible, but it works for me. I regularly T4 20-26 person FNM events with this list with multiple Tier 1-3 shells getting played around me.

3 Ancient Tomb
8 Mountain

4 Manamorphose

4 Lotus Petal
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Gitaxian Probe

4 Burning Wish
4 Desperate Ritual
3 Empty the Warrens
1 Gamble
2 Hazoret's Undying Fury
3 Past in Flames
4 Pyretic Ritual
4 Rite of Flames
4 Seething Song
4 Simian Spirit Guide


SB
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Goblin War Strike
1 Grapeshot
1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
1 Insult // Injury
1 Meltdown
1 Past in Flames
1 Pyroclasm
1 Reforge the Soul
1 Shattering Spree
4 Floating SB cards


Thank you for your time

Did browbeat ever get tested as an engine? Likely the opponent will just take the 5, but thats fewer storm count needed worst case scenario for a grapeshot or tendrils. Or if it gets flashed back enough could wind up drawing cards with a real low life total on the other side of the table.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Watcher487

Sorry to stamp in here, I've been running a budget list for just over 6 months for FNMs working and tinkering with the list to at least keep it viable for kids in the meta. While running Act on Impulse, it has always been pretty weak for me. I don't consider HUF to be better draw spell or combo initializer, I consider it a better continuation card. I run a full set of all 4 rituals making Past in Flames much better overall. I know most of you guys don't consider this style of list to be possible, but it works for me. I regularly T4 20-26 person FNM events with this list with multiple Tier 1-3 shells getting played around me.

3 Ancient Tomb
8 Mountain

4 Manamorphose

4 Lotus Petal
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Gitaxian Probe

4 Burning Wish
4 Desperate Ritual
3 Empty the Warrens
1 Gamble
2 Hazoret's Undying Fury
3 Past in Flames
4 Pyretic Ritual
4 Rite of Flames
4 Seething Song
4 Simian Spirit Guide


SB
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Goblin War Strike
1 Grapeshot
1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
1 Insult // Injury
1 Meltdown
1 Past in Flames
1 Pyroclasm
1 Reforge the Soul
1 Shattering Spree
4 Floating SB cards


Thank you for your time

---

I find it hard to take this in when you say you've been running this deck for 6 months when I invented it in July. Anyway, no act on impulse is wrong. (objectively)

I'd have to see some results outside of fnm. I even do fine playing in local weekly with random brews vs good players.

If you wish to throw it out go ahead and contact a Mod. But yes, I have been running that list (minus the Furies) for just about 6 months now. I've tested Harness the Storm, Monastery Swiftspear and Faithless Looting just to name a few cards. I do not like Act on Impulse, this is probably more due to the fact that I only run 4 Medallion effects in the deck and as you have said it's 'busted' when you have multiple medallion effects out. Like I've said earlier if you don't like it then contact a Mod.

Thank you for your time.

it's possible, but very difficult to believe. where were you the last 3 months? also your build comes across as one of the earlier belcher style variants we were playing when the first lists were constructed.

anyway, want to move away from these budget builds.

if metagame is weak to empty, then a build like this is fine (as belcher is as well).
if metagame can handle goblins, then this is more of a glass cannon shell with only 11 lands. (even including the SSG and LP). the lowest i had with testing was 14 lands + 4 ssg and lp.

it just wasn't good enough unless if you planned on making goblins most games.

if that's my goal then i'd rather play belcher.

would like to get some data from you since you're posting anyway. what ya got?



also, act on impulse is a tier 1 card when it only costs 1R. (it is busted at R, but i would argue it's almost as unfair for 1R). the main reason here is when you have a rock out, the initial cost is lower, and seething song and manamorphose allow for dumb things when they are revealed.


Re: Ruby Storm
Did browbeat ever get tested as an engine? Likely the opponent will just take the 5, but thats fewer storm count needed worst case scenario for a grapeshot or tendrils. Or if it gets flashed back enough could wind up drawing cards with a real low life total on the other side of the table

I always think about trying browbeat, but since this deck doesn't really have a clock or even lightning bolts to back it up it's almost always going to deal 5 damage. if you really want to draw 3 cards then bedlam reveler is probably the next best after act on impulse. after that the best recommendation is just wait for another card to come out that has a similar function or play something like tormenting voice.

* you could try another build with guttersnipe and browbeat. maybe the first one would get 5 life, but subsequent ones would maybe draw cards. i'd say test it, but would really need to see it work to get on board.

I'm not sold on a 'grindy' red storm list with Bedlam Reveler, Browbeat, Guttersnipe. I think it could be an option to design the sideboard around but I have to think that BW > Tendrils/Warrens/Grapeshot has to be the best line for the deck.

I'm sold on Guttersnipe...for the sideboard. I actually like the Scab-Clan/Guttersnipe grind plan post-board when opponent's take out removal. It makes the deck much less reliant on Past in Flames, so it makes grave hate worse against us. Its hard to squeeze even more non-Wish cards into the board but I think it would have to take the Defense Grid/Pyroblast slots. Pyroblast has been marginally good for me, a way to break through and resolve a key spell like Past in Flames. With maindeck Overmaster I think I can drop the Pyroblasts for the Guttersnipes. Snipe is great, but maindeck doesn't seem worth it in my metagame with all of the fair blue decks packing a significant amount of removal.

Here is my current list:

4x Ruby Medallion
1x Helm of Awakening

4x Rite of Flame
4x Seething Song
4x Lotus Petal
1x Simian Spirit Guide
1x Desperate Ritual

4x Gitaxian Probe
3x Overmaster
4x Act on Impulse
4x Manamorphose

3x Past in Flames
1x Hazoret’s Undying Fury
1x Gamble

4x Burning Wish
3x Empty the Warrens

10x Mountain
4x Crystal Vein

Sidebaord

1x Past in Flames
1x Empty the Warrens
1x Grapeshot
1x Cave-In
1x Tendrils of Agony
1x By Force
1x Reforge the Soul
2x Blood Moon
2x Guttersnipe
2x Scab-Clan Berserker
1x ensnaring bridge
1x Tormod’s Crypt


I'm back on turbo-warrens, its the approach that got me the most wins. I definitely want 5 reducers, have been running 6 and been happy. Five may be too few, not sure. I could always drop an Overmaster/Warrens for another Helm. As noted earlier in the thread, I'm down to 1 Gamble. I also think that if I'm going to keep the 1-of Hazoret's Undying Fury I need to maximize the payoff when it resolves, which is why 4x Act on Impulse and 3x Empty the Warrens are a good move. I miss the days of flipping a Reforge the Soul off of Hazoret's Undying Fury, but Force of Will had dirty things to say about that. Having 14 bomb targets for HUF seems like a good place to start (Warrens, BW, PiF, AoI) Ensnaring Bridge I think may be incorrect in the sideboard, it might be better off as another Tormod's Crypt. Metagame dependant I would say, and I think Sneak/Show is gaining in popularity at the LGS.

I still can't figure out the Desperate Ritual/Simian Spirit Guide ratio. I feel like the rituals that are essential are Seething Song and Rite of Flame. Beyond that I think at least one Desperate Ritual is good, and at least 1 SSG is good for t1 reducers (without sacrificing storm count.) Without Reforge the Soul being so emphasized, I think free mana sources are good but not make-or-break.

I'm going to really dig in and get some testing in on this list, and hit the LGS in a week or so to see how it goes.

I just ordered my playset of browbeats, so ill play around and see what seems to work. I feel like it may take the deck in a bit of a different direction or just be an inefficient version of the same. But I guess that is part of testing.

I suspect, but I'm not positive, you'll find yourself to be an inconsistent burn deck. I think if you want damage to shorten races, play Bolts. Bolt in the middle of a Past in Flames pile is incredibly good, and it kills a few hatebears we worry about (Thalia, Sanctum Prelate, canonist.) I kind of like the concept, because I am moving towards a transformative sideoboard (boarding in Guttersnipe/Berserker) that can play a more resilient game. I wish I could squeeze in 3x each of snipe/berserker, it would really make a significant difference alongside lightning bolts.

Browbeat doesn't see play even in burn decks, where the supplementary damage/draw would make an even better impact in that deck. Act on Impulse is likely better in most cases. If I were investing three mana into a non-draw 'threat' Sulfuric Vortex would be decent, but again, we're going into inconsistent burn territory. If you draw only rituals and browbeat, they take the 5, and you're stuck spinning your wheels having invested mana into a Shrapnel Blast. In that same situation Act on Impulse could draw you into wins, or set you up to draw into wins. The only time browbeat would be superior would be if they were at 5 or less life, which would guarantee the 3 cards.

I may be a little biased in this area, because I'm on the Blood Moon sideboard plan (not sure how many others are.) Blood Moon for 3 mana is infinitely better than Browbeat.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mr. Safety

I suspect, but I'm not positive, you'll find yourself to be an inconsistent burn deck. I think if you want damage to shorten races, play Bolts. Bolt in the middle of a Past in Flames pile is incredibly good, and it kills a few hatebears we worry about (Thalia, Sanctum Prelate, canonist.) I kind of like the concept, because I am moving towards a transformative sideoboard (boarding in Guttersnipe/Berserker) that can play a more resilient game. I wish I could squeeze in 3x each of snipe/berserker, it would really make a significant difference alongside lightning bolts.

Browbeat doesn't see play even in burn decks, where the supplementary damage/draw would make an even better impact in that deck. Act on Impulse is likely better in most cases. If I were investing three mana into a non-draw 'threat' Sulfuric Vortex would be decent, but again, we're going into inconsistent burn territory. If you draw only rituals and browbeat, they take the 5, and you're stuck spinning your wheels having invested mana into a Shrapnel Blast. In that same situation Act on Impulse could draw you into wins, or set you up to draw into wins. The only time browbeat would be superior would be if they were at 5 or less life, which would guarantee the 3 cards.

I may be a little biased in this area, because I'm on the Blood Moon sideboard plan (not sure how many others are.) Blood Moon for 3 mana is infinitely better than Browbeat.

---

I wasn't planning on swapping AoI for the browbeats, these would be in addition to. I don't know what I would take out just yet, but the idea was to have it as a potential additional draw engine OR be used to lower the needed storm count. With rocks and a flashback that's 10 damage (or, less likely, 3 cards + 5 damage) for RR. Or if you come across a second one its almost guaranteed to have at least one draw 3 effect (being effective copies 3 and 4 with PiF). It may be a dead end but it didn't appear to have been tested yet, just talked about, and I can afford to, so I will try. I just think this deck is unique and cool and want to help :)

I feel like Browbeat is just plain bad, regardless of what kind of a deck you're playing it in. I could kinda see it in some very low powered format, but no way in Legacy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ronco

I wasn't planning on swapping AoI for the browbeats, these would be in addition to. I don't know what I would take out just yet, but the idea was to have it as a potential additional draw engine OR be used to lower the needed storm count. With rocks and a flashback that's 10 damage (or, less likely, 3 cards + 5 damage) for RR. Or if you come across a second one its almost guaranteed to have at least one draw 3 effect (being effective copies 3 and 4 with PiF). It may be a dead end but it didn't appear to have been tested yet, just talked about, and I can afford to, so I will try. I just think this deck is unique and cool and want to help :)

---

I think the idea that it becomes better in multiples is valid. Punisher-type mechanics are usually bad but when an effect is stacked up it does become much better. It's in an awkward spot because I don't think you can squeeze in more than 1-2 copies of it without sacrificing another key part of the deck, and having only 1-2 copies won't show up very often, so testing won't be very conclusive. Honestly, go for it. With one medallion it becomes Shrapnel Blast, with two it becomes a miracle-triggered Thunderous Wrath. I think this is how you need to view it, because getting 3 cards is just too risky for any opponent unless they are at 5 or less life. In that sense, it gets better the later in the game it goes off.

I can't help but think that maindeck Guttersnipe would be the way to go if you test out more than 1-2 copies of Browbeat. At that point its more of a Pyromancer's Ascension/Bolt combo deck that doesn't really need storm count to win. Maindeck Grapeshots would also be a likely good move.

In the vein of weird cards to test out, I was thinking of this off-the wall tech: Tangle Wire

It will have little to no effect on us (tapping one land) but with 4x SSG I could see us working around it. It allows us to get a few more draw steps in and halt progress from opponents while we set up. It doesn't do anything against Force of Will, but we don't have anything for that anyways. It will however protect us against stuff like Spell Pierce and the board state becoming overwhelming.

Thoughts?

I wouldn't play Browbeat in this deck even if it was just 5 damage for 2R without giving any options for the opponent. It just doesn't further our plan very much. Burn is the deck most suited to take advantage of the card and doesn't play it either.

Tangle Wire is a fun card but probably not worth it though. Essentially it just slows the game down temporarily. Against aggressive decks it will stop their attacks for one, maybe two turns. Feel free to test it of course, but there's already way too much stuff we'd love to fit on the sideboard.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mr. Safety

I think the idea that it becomes better in multiples is valid. Punisher-type mechanics are usually bad but when an effect is stacked up it does become much better. It's in an awkward spot because I don't think you can squeeze in more than 1-2 copies of it without sacrificing another key part of the deck, and having only 1-2 copies won't show up very often, so testing won't be very conclusive. Honestly, go for it. With one medallion it becomes Shrapnel Blast, with two it becomes a miracle-triggered Thunderous Wrath. I think this is how you need to view it, because getting 3 cards is just too risky for any opponent unless they are at 5 or less life. In that sense, it gets better the later in the game it goes off.

I can't help but think that maindeck Guttersnipe would be the way to go if you test out more than 1-2 copies of Browbeat. At that point its more of a Pyromancer's Ascension/Bolt combo deck that doesn't really need storm count to win. Maindeck Grapeshots would also be a likely good move.

In the vein of weird cards to test out, I was thinking of this off-the wall tech: Tangle Wire

It will have little to no effect on us (tapping one land) but with 4x SSG I could see us working around it. It allows us to get a few more draw steps in and halt progress from opponents while we set up. It doesn't do anything against Force of Will, but we don't have anything for that anyways. It will however protect us against stuff like Spell Pierce and the board state becoming overwhelming.

Thoughts?

---

Why would you ever want to play Tangle Wire in a Storm combo deck? If the deck is already lacking in protection, wouldn't it make sense to cast better cards like Xantid Swarm, Defense Grid or Pyroblast against control decks? Storm decks intrinsically don't have issues getting around creatures, because they flood out faster with Goblin tokens or a Tendrils for X. There's no need to bog the deck down with bad cards like Browbeat, Tangle Wire, etc. The best and most efficient way to approach an archetype like this is to play it as straight-forward as possible to keep it competitive.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Michael Keller

Why would you ever want to play Tangle Wire in a Storm combo deck? If the deck is already lacking in protection, wouldn't it make sense to cast better cards like Xantid Swarm, Defense Grid or Pyroblast against control decks? Storm decks intrinsically don't have issues getting around creatures, because they flood out faster with Goblin tokens or a Tendrils for X. There's no need to bog the deck down with bad cards like Browbeat, Tangle Wire, etc. The best and most efficient way to approach an archetype like this is to play it as straight-forward as possible to keep it competitive.

---

Point taken, and I agree. The goal of these past few comments/posts are simply to look outside the box. I've had plenty of games where a lock-piece like Blood Moon does a lot of work; maybe there are other prison elements that can be landed fast that don't affect us but hamstring our opponents. Its probably a distraction from what the deck wants to do, and likely a path that won't work. But if all I wasted was a little discussion time on a thread, that's ok with me.

If you are looking for out-of-the-box ideas, I would have a look at 1x MD/SB Storm Entity, Hellraiser Goblin, Anger, Burst of Speed or Goblin Bushwhacker. I can see some merit in a combat kill with haste as a Plan B / Plan C which dodges Engineered Explosives, Ratchet Bomb and the like. I suppose Anger would work the best in a LED + Gamble list.

Can mistercakes post an updated list? I may want to try this out!

The more i test, the more i feel that 1 reforge md and 1 sb is the right configuration, especially with the proliferation of Leovold everywhere

Been running this for about 2 weeks now, love it. All credit to others in this post.

Land/Mana
10 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Lotus Petal

Reducers
4 Ruby Medallion
2 Helm of Awakening

Rituals
4 Seething Song
4 Rite of Flame
1 Desperate Ritual

Cantrips/Draw
4 Manamorphose
3 Act on Impulse
3 Gitaxian Probe
2 Overmaster
1 Reforge the Soul

Search
4 Burning Wish
1 Gamble

Win Cons
3 Empty the Warrens
2 Guttersnipe
1 Grapeshot

Sideboard

Side
2 Scab-Clan Berserker
2 Defense Grid
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Sulfur Elemental

Wish
1 Past in Flames
1 Goblin War Strike
1 Telemin Performance
1 Grapeshot
1 Empty the Warrens
1 By Force
1 Reforge the Soul
1 Cave-In



I've found that Empty the Warrens is the way to go, and furthermore, Goblin War Strike out of the wishboard is the all-star.

Lots of success, but some fizzling out. I'd like to see this deck grow.