[DTB] Blade Control

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Originally Posted by KasumiFox

Also I dont feel right taking that SoFF out of MD.. In a meta filled with combos, you are not getting anything with your mystics having just batterskull and jitte on G1. =s

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I think that Batterskull VS SoFF is about the same verses combo, but SoFF VS Jitte favors Jitte in just about any MU involving creature combat.


I'm finding it difficult to find the correct numbers of discard vs countermagic. The versatility of discard is great and I don't know that we can do without some, but there are many times when discard just becomes dead and the tempo advantage from countermagic is more beneficial.

(Also, I'd rather not see Show and Tell banned. It certainly isn't dominating the fair decks and I don't see any reason to pull the trigger yet.)

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Originally Posted by Dzra

I think that Batterskull VS SoFF is about the same verses combo, but SoFF VS Jitte favors Jitte in just about any MU involving creature combat.


I'm finding it difficult to find the correct numbers of discard vs countermagic. The versatility of discard is great and I don't know that we can do without some, but there are many times when discard just becomes dead and the tempo advantage from countermagic is more beneficial.

(Also, I'd rather not see Show and Tell banned. It certainly isn't dominating the fair decks and I don't see any reason to pull the trigger yet.)

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I dont see the triggered effect from SoFF less effective than lifelink against any combo, actually. Discarding AND untapping is almost a timewalk.. letting you discard or play threats and keep your mana open to counterspell after.
Most combos doesnt either have issues against lifegain, tho.. TES can still ad nauseam to X+ storms anyway

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Originally Posted by KasumiFox

I dont see the triggered effect from SoFF less effective than lifelink against any combo, actually. Discarding AND untapping is almost a timewalk.. letting you discard or play threats and keep your mana open to counterspell after.
Most combos doesnt either have issues against lifegain, tho.. TES can still ad nauseam to X+ storms anyway

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I don't think that Batterskull is better than SoFF against combo. I just don't think that SoFF is so much better that I'd run it over Jitte. Our combo MUs tend to be pretty good anyways.

What is everyone's opinion on Judge's Familiar? I get that it's the same as cursecatcher, and we were never interested in that, but is the flying relevant when it can wear a sword? I legitimately don't know what to think about this card.

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Originally Posted by learntolove6

What is everyone's opinion on Judge's Familiar? I get that it's the same as cursecatcher, and we were never interested in that, but is the flying relevant when it can wear a sword? I legitimately don't know what to think about this card.

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Seems like a better fit in Death & Taxes or UW Tempo than it does in here.

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Originally Posted by learntolove6

What is everyone's opinion on Judge's Familiar? I get that it's the same as cursecatcher, and we were never interested in that, but is the flying relevant when it can wear a sword? I legitimately don't know what to think about this card.

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i kind of like the card's flavor. however cursecatcher's ability flows with merfolk's mana denial plan and blade doesn't have that..

Yeah, it seems just shy of playable. A slightly better Cursecatcher still probably isn't good enough.

On a different note... how bad is Dryad Militant going to be for us? It seems like the perfect card for Maverick against almost every other deck in the format.

The question is what are they going to remove from the deck to make space for it if any. Still we can always board in more removal and take out Snapcasters post board if they start boarding these guys in to invalidate flashbacked Swords.

They are talking about Dryad in the Dredge thread as well.

Snapcaster is still a 2/1 for 2 that trades with the dryad if it attacks. It seems mediocre against blade decks, unless you run the Intuition>3 Lingering souls plan. Even then that seems pretty marginal.

If they are running multiples of them, I think blade control just doesn't care.

You should only be running 3 Snapcasters anyways. And Lingering Souls in the Sideboard. At least you get 2 Spirit you can equip a Jitte with. Its just a 2/1 they have to waste a body on and they won't have more than 2 in the sideboard. I don't think its going to have an impact at all.

hello guys,

it's been a long time since i read in this thread, and i am very tempted to build this deck myself
the last comment on lingering souls made me wonder why it should be in the sideboard and not maindeck, when its such a good card that should help in the aggro- and control-matchup

as well i would love to know about the good and the bad matchups of this deck, if someone could list them for me, i would really appreciate it

thanks

For me, Lingering Souls has been a SB card at best. It forces you to tap out and doesn't offer the versatility of Clique. I disagree with Snapcaster being a 3-of though. It is fairly crucial in aggro MUs.

Also, I've liked Restoration Angel in the several times I've gotten to test her.

Any thoughts on the new uncounterable wrath? It's pretty color-intensive, but not horribly so. No regen clause either.

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attac...0&d=1346904113

INteresting!

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Originally Posted by Dzra

Any thoughts on the new uncounterable wrath? It's pretty color-intensive, but not horribly so. No regen clause either.

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attac...0&d=1346904113

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It is an uncounterable Day of Judgment. It is a bit more mana intensive, but isn't that worth it, since it can't be countered? Additionally these are the colors of this deck. Furthermore, how many threats are there realistically that regenerate?

in what matchups does lingering souls perform the best and, aside of combo, in what matchups is it better to side it out / leave it in the sideboard

sorry for the nooby question :P

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Originally Posted by Sturtzilla

It is an uncounterable Day of Judgment. It is a bit more mana intensive, but isn't that worth it, since it can't be countered? Additionally these are the colors of this deck. Furthermore, how many threats are there realistically that regenerate?

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They forgot to write on the card, loves being pitched to Fow :)

Isn't Terminus just better?

The match up's where you need a wrath of god, you don't need to deal with Counters as well.

The exception being Merfolk, but that seems narrow.

You'd also want it against RUG.

The thing is, you couldn't afford to play real Wrath because of soft counters in Merfolk and RUG. Now you can, and that should improve on other matches where you don't even need the uncounterability. And Terminus still can be FoWed.

I like that it kills Griselbrands no matter how many dozen cards they draw with it.

And yes: it is relevant against every deck playing creatures and counters (in no particular order: Merfolk, RUG, Bant, UWTempo, Madness, S&T, Team America, hell even Miracles Control with their Angel tokens, the list goes on).

I'm willing to go there and consider, it might be even better than Terminus.

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Originally Posted by Guy I Don't Know

They forgot to write on the card, loves being pitched to Fow :)

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Sure does. I would like to see Terminus do that!

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Originally Posted by that0neguy

The match up's where you need a wrath of god, you don't need to deal with Counters as well.

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This is factually untrue. There are plenty of Aggro/Control and Tempo decks in Legacy. See the quote below.

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Originally Posted by klaus

And yes: it is relevant against every deck playing creatures and counters (in no particular order: Merfolk, RUG, Bant, UWTempo, Madness, S&T, Team America, hell even Miracles Control with their Angel tokens, the list goes on).

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I would also like to mention that Terminus really isn't the best in some match-ups. On a few occasions playing RUG I was Terminus-ed 3-4 times in single game. You just have to counter opponents' win cons (which generally aren't as many), while fetching and shuffling my creatures off the bottom of my deck. I guess what I am saying, is that this spell actually answers (kills) creatures, while Terminus generates temporary board advantage which can be regained over time. I, myself, find it kind of funny to think of Terminus as a tempo card, but it doesn't permanently answer anything. This new spell can (barring reanimation effects). So it probably comes down to your particular meta.

Terminus not putting cards into the graveyard can also be relevant. A couple things that come to mind right away are Dredge and Sam Black Zombies.

I'd rather play Supreme Verdict against some decks, including Goblins and Maverick. Goblins can get a Goblin Matron and get their Goblin Ringleader back, this allowing them to 'retieve' those dead goblins. Same thing goes with Maverick, except they run Green sun's Zenith instead.

Decks like RUG, BUG and UW aggro control can generally be dealt with by 1:1ing threats. Often times a wrath might just be a 1:1 for 4 mana against them, that seems awful. Also, it assumes that you can get to 4 (including WW) mana through wastelands/stifles in time.

How long has it been since we have had to deal with Madness? Hasn't that deck pretty much been dead since Goyf was printed?

SnT decks are also probably just faster than a 4 mana wrath can come down. You might kill GB no matter how many cards they draw, but they are probably going to have 9-16 cards in hand to jam another one into play. Terminus + top also answers Emrakul at instant speed if he is Sneak attacked into play, or "hard cast" off Omniscience.

Entreat the Angels seems like the best argument for it to me, outside of Merfolk, but unless you only plan on playing against Miracles, I think Terminus outshines this card in the general metagame.

I guess it was untrue to say that you do not need to deal with counters, but I do think that the card is pretty bad compared to Terminus in most match ups. 4 mana is just too expensive against most decks, and the uncounterable clause doesn't seem like it would come up that frequently.

[Edit]
To say that you would use it against Goblins/Mav assumes that you will get to the 4 mana through wastelands. The fact that the goblins shuffle back in only matters if it was a 1 of. But you have probably just generated a huge ammount of card advantage so even if they do go find it again, you can always just answer it 1:1 with a swords or something. resolving a wrath against a deck like goblins probably just 4+:1ed them.

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Originally Posted by that0neguy

How long has it been since we have had to deal with Madness? Hasn't that deck pretty much been dead since Goyf was printed?

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Or perhaps the banning of Survival of the Fittest.

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Originally Posted by that0neguy

I guess it was untrue to say that you do not need to deal with counters, but I do think that the card is pretty bad compared to Terminus in most match ups. 4 mana is just too expensive against most decks, and the uncounterable clause doesn't seem like it would come up that frequently.

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I think it comes down to what your meta is comprised of. If there are a lot of tempo decks, especially ones that play Stifle then Supreme Verdict might edge out Terminus. Otherwise Terminus is likely better.

Saying four mana is too much, is outlandish. This is a deck that can operate of basics and generally leave fetchlands unused until a Stifle-happy opponent is tapped out. We also play Jace, the Mind Sculptor and an assortment of other cards at four (usually out of the board). Hell sometimes it is right to hardcast a Batterskull at five. So while I see where your logic is coming from in that you don't want to pay four for a sweeper, it is still is likely better in some scenarios than a Terminus. I think it warrants testing. I can see it as a maindeck and/or a sideboard card pending deck distribution in a given meta.

There are 2 problems.

Even if you are up against stifle, you assume that they overextend into it. If the tempo player just plays 1 delver/goose/goyf at a time, 4 mana removal spells seem terrible.

Then you assume that you can get to 4 mana in a relavent time frame against wasteland (and possibly even stifle.)

It seems really mediocre against tempo to me.

I feel like there's better things to be doing than wrathing a RUG player. I'm perfectly happy 1-for-1ing them and occasionally catching them with an EE. Terminus is fine here, but I still think it's unnecessary and I'd rather have EE.

Sure there's the random Bant deck, but Merfolk is the main MU I can think of where being uncounterable is actually very relevant. Wrath effects are great here and being able to run it into a Daze, Cursecatcher, or Spell Pierce is really powerful.

There are a couple times though when the cannot regen is relevant, Thrun and Ezuri. Thrun is sometimes a SB card for Maverick, already a tough MU. Elves is generally MDing some number of Ezuri.

Between Wrath of God and Supreme Verdict, I think it depends whether you want to hedge against Elves or Merfolk.

(I'm somewhat undecided about where I stand with Terminus. We are a slow enough deck that RUG and GSZ decks like Maverick can probably recover to some degree.)

I've been playing EsperBlade for a few months with good success at my local store. It's been fun and offers great angles of attack against most everything. I'm looking to take the deck to SCG LA this weekend, and I wanted to get a few opinions. Here's what I'm running

4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Snapcaster Mage
1 Clique

2 Engineered Explosives
1 Batterskull
1 Jitte

4 Brainstorm
3 Spell Pierce
1 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares

2 Ponder
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Duress (plan to swap for thoughtseize)
1 Lingering Souls

2 Jace, TMS

2 Island
2 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
3 Underground Sea
2 Tundra
1 Scrubland
1 Academy Ruins
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Karakas

SB
2 Lingering Souls
2 Flusterstorm
2 Disenchant
1 Spell Pierce
1 Perish
1 Wrath of God
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Darkblast
1 Jace, TMS
3 Surgical Extraction

I had 3 lingering souls main for a while, but cut them for extra countermagic, and Jitte has been obviously weaker.

In anticipation of a combo heavy SCG La metagame, I wanted to make the following changes.

-1 Lingering Souls
-1 Snapcaster Mage
-1 Jitte (move to SB)
+1 Sword of Feast and Famine
+2 Geist of Saint Traft

-1 Spell Pierce (will replace 1 disenchant in SB)
-1 Glacial Fortress
-1 Plains
+3 Wasteland

Against the various Sneak and Show/OmniShow decks, I sometimes have trouble closing out the game. Geist seems like a good clock. I like Jitte better in the main, but without soul tokens, it's more difficult to get Jitte counters, hence SoFaF. I'm concerned that these changes will leave me a little too soft against RUG delver and Maverick. What do you think?

I'm less sure about the wasteland addition. A 1 of Dustbowl seems more conventional, but I wanted to try wasteland because it's faster and increases the lifespan of Spell Pierce against decks which rely heavily on City of Traitors and Ancient Tomb. Furthermore, I'm more comfortable with 23 lands. Thoughts?

Finally, I've been unimpressed with Ponder. I usually don't have mana to cast it during the early turns (SFM, Discard, Spell Pierce, and Brainstorm take precedence). I see it as more of a mid to late game play useful for digging for a threat. I fully admit that I could be playing it wrong. What do you think of 2x Baleful Strix in the ponder slots?

The strix pitches to Force, blocks profitably, and digs (admittedly worst than ponder). It might be too durdley, but it seems good as an infiniblocker when combined with Ruins.

Thanks in advance for your consideration.

I like the idea of Baleful Strix, especially with Academy Ruins and Restoration Angel. Might be worth testing.

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Originally Posted by Dzra

I like the idea of Baleful Strix, especially with Academy Ruins and Restoration Angel. Might be worth testing.

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Finally someone who sees the potential!

List I have been brewing for local meta that has a bit of everything but storm combo.

Main:

1 Academy Ruins
4 Flooded Strand
2 Island
1 Karakas
1 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
4 Tundra
3 Underground Sea

4 Brainstorm
2 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Lingering Souls
3 Spell Pierce

2 Engineered Explosives
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Batterskull
4 Snapcaster Mage


Side:
3 Surgical Extractions
1 Spell Pierce
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
2 Disenchant
3 Relic of Progenitus
1 Lingering Souls
3 Oblivion Rings
1 Engineered Explosives

What have been people's thoughts on Dust Bowl? On paper it definitely seems like where we want to be... good for long grinds and requires less space than Wastelands. I'm still hesitant though. Sometimes LD is needed now and that's where I really miss Wasteland.

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Originally Posted by Dzra

What have been people's thoughts on Dust Bowl? On paper it definitely seems like where we want to be... good for long grinds and requires less space than Wastelands. I'm still hesitant though. Sometimes LD is needed now and that's where I really miss Wasteland.

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I'm working on a new list.. thinking about 2 wastelands and 1 dust bowl. I rly dont wanna lose a game cuz I cant destroy a single maze in time =s

Dust Bowl does a fine job for me. With esper I find the Mana denial route is game we don't want to play. We can ALWAYS find something to do with our Mana. Stoneblade is much weaker when it misses a land drop and we want to reach 5 Mana. It doesn't make sense to remove lands for wastelands.

I can understand using a wasteland in place of ponder.
I think uw with wastelands could work.

If we can't beat the maze, then we chump block with our germ, gain life and go to the Jace strategy.

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Originally Posted by KasumiFox

I'm working on a new list.. thinking about 2 wastelands and 1 dust bowl. I rly dont wanna lose a game cuz I cant destroy a single maze in time =s

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That seems like a whole lot of slots you're putting into colorless lands. I'm more worried about getting Wastelanded myself than being able to destroy Mazes. That said, I still think it's important to have at least 1-2 ways to stop Maze.

Do none of you guys think Volrath's Stronghold makes the cut? I find it really makes my opponent's think twice about attacking into a Snapcaster Mage.

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Originally Posted by Final Fortune

Do none of you guys think Volrath's Stronghold makes the cut? I find it really makes my opponent's think twice about attacking into a Snapcaster Mage.

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If I was looking for all the value, I'd go for Riptide over Stronghold. I'm trying to minimize colorless lands though.

At the moment I play Academy Ruins as my Utility-Land of choice. Twice. Cause I play 2 EE Mainboard and 1-2 more in the Sideboard. Cant see me playing any Utility-Lands besides Ruins+Karakas though...

Greetings

let's talk splash colors for the sb.

black for discard effects or red for REB?

i've been RED for months, but i want to try something new. does anyone have an argument for sb discard?

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Originally Posted by learntolove6

let's talk splash colors for the sb.

black for discard effects or red for REB?

i've been RED for months, but i want to try something new. does anyone have an argument for sb discard?

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I don't know about SB discard but MD discard is awesome, MD Thought Seize with SB Spell Pierce is my go to combination and I think the SB options in black are better than the SB options in red, namely Perish. Unless you're playing MD Lightning Bolts or Grim Lavamancers I don't think REB is worth splashing for, with Flusterstorm as an option, you need more out of your splash than another situational counterspell.

Have you guys seen Detention Sphere yet? I think it may replace our Engineered Explosives, it's way more cost efficient vs. Tarmogoyf and Counterbalance fwiw ... and pitches to FoW!

EE > Sphere because it hits Mongeese.