[Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

Hey All,

It has been awhile since my last post. I played BUG Delver at locals this week to a 3-1 finish. I went (2-0) against Lands, (2-0) against Infect, (0-2) against Pyroblade, and (2-1) in the BUG Delver pseudo mirror. I tweaked the maindeck from previous configurations to be better equipped to deal with the rise in Baneslayer Angels in my local meta. Here is the list that I ran.

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Spell Pierce
1 Spell Snare
1 Disfigure
4 Daze
1 Sylvan Library
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Dismember
4 Force of Will
3 Treasure Cruise
3 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
4 Wasteland

Sideboard
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
2 Flusterstorm
1 Disfigure
1 Dread of Night
1 Null Rod
2 Golgari Charm
1 Engineered Plague
1 Krosan Grip
1 Dismember
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Vendilion Clique

I don't remember the 60th card.... I will add it next time that I am home. Dismember over performed. I was able to kill Tarmogoyfs and Quirion Dryads in the pseudo-mirror. It was also great against the infect deck giving not only a way to kill guys but also a way to reduce incoming poison counters. I had played three UWR Stoneblade decks the previous week and found myself facing a number of Baneslayers... so the reason this card was included wasn't even faced. Dismember is probably a bit slow versus UR Delver but it has plenty of match ups where it is great. I decided for Dread of Night in the board as there were 2 Death and taxes decks in the field of 15 players. I really was hoping to get a better feel for the Spell Snare... but unfortunately I only saw it once or twice over the course of the event. Once it was pitched to a FoW and the other time it was not needed to win the game... although it may have helped it the game was to continue. I will probably tweak the list a little bit but it felt pretty good in the current meta game.

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Originally Posted by Sturtzilla

I don't remember the 60th card.... I will add it next time that I am home.

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19th land perhaps? That makes the most sense (to me at least :wink:).

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Originally Posted by Asthereal

19th land perhaps? That makes the most sense (to me at least :wink:).

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Yeah, 18 lands with 4 wastes is tough if you're trying to cast Abrupt Decay on turn 2. That's why BUG Control plays 20 lands even with nothing costing more than 3 in the list and 8 cantrips.

I am pretty sure that it was 18 land and that it was the values listed above. I keep thinking that it might have been a 4th Treasure Cruise even though I know I don't like that last copy.

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Originally Posted by Sturtzilla

I am pretty sure that it was 18 land and that it was the values listed above. I keep thinking that it might have been a 4th Treasure Cruise even though I know I don't like that last copy.

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If you're sure about the 18 lands and don't like the 4th Cruise, it was probably a creature or a removal spell.
Or maybe you cheated and played 59 cards? :tongue::eek::eyebrow:

I know I cut the 1-of TNN this week and the deck for sure counted out to 60 cards. I am thinking it was either an extra counterspell or a test piece of removal. Figuring out the 60th card isn't super important. I think the take away here is that Dismember felt really good to have access to. Again if you are facing a lot of Burn and UR Delver it probably isn't the best. But in Tarmogoyf mirrors and decks that have big threats like Baneslayer it has a ton of value over our normal removal.

Heh only 6 people showed up last night so there were only 3 rounds. The Meta here is kind of not normal on a global scale.

The decks in the room last night were: Pox, Mono White Stax, Mono Black Reanimator Depths, Death and Taxes, Metalworker, and BUG Delver (Yours Truly)

I played against Pox, Mono White Stax, and the Reanimator deck.

Round 1 was Daniel on Reanimator Depths. I keep a bit of a shady hand, but I have double force of will and a wasteland. I never really manage to get much going, as more lands never see the light of day, and he eventually, after trying to T1 Ritual -> Entomb, T2 Ritual Entomb me, he gets both a Hexmage and a depths out, and then plays stage, making my wasteland slightly less relevant. I Die to a 20/20. In game 2, I draw a bit better, and have a for sure plan to stop the reanimation shenanigans with a turn 1 deathrite shaman, but I'm soon punished as I never find a wasteland and a 20/20 kills me again. Oh well. I made a huge mistake in not bringing in VClique from the board. Game 2 I got him down to 5, and managed to stave off his 20/20 for a good few turns, but of course, all the land from game 1 decided to show up and say "sorry" and eventually marit lage used me like a golf tee.

Sideboard was something like this:

-4 Daze
+1 Grafdigger's Cage
+1 Surgical Extraction
+1 Spell Pierce
+1 Disfigure

Round 2 was versus Aaron, who was playing Mono White stax, because "There is only so much fun to be had in a room of Magic, and I want to take as much of it as possible". I quickly 2-0 him, as his deck doesn't seem to respond very well to an angry Tarmogoyf. Game 2 was actually vendilion clique that dealt the last point, even after he Helmed me and got to steal a clique from me. Abrupt Decay did a lot of work =P

+1 Krosan Grip
+1 Thoughtsieze
+2 Vendilion Clique
+1 Null Rod

-4 Daze
-1 Spell Pierce

Round 3 was vs. Sheldon who was playing Pox. Game 1 was completely won off Treasure Cruise, of which I delved 3 of them, paying a total of 3 mana. This card is the nut. I was able to get a stable land base, and start deploying multiple threats, while keeping his locked down. Game 2 went in a similar vein, and we both had a good laugh when he forgot that Tarmogoyf says all graveyards, and therefore his leyline was more of an annoyance than anything else.

+2 Spell Pierce
+2 Vendilion Clique
+1 Krosan Grip
+1 Null Rod

-2 Thoughtsieze
-4 Daze

2-1 for the night

Overall I came in 4th, which, due to how this store's prizing works, got me $10 in store credit. Damn you, Marit Lage.... *shakes fist angerly*

Just wanted to bring up this cute tech:

http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=15554&iddeck=115705

Essentially, it's taking a BUG Delver list and making these primary changes:
-4 Delver of Secrets
-4 Daze
+4 Putrid Leech
+4 Stubborn Denial

There are advantages and disadvantages to this approach. Leech is not Blue to fuel FoW, and also can't be deployed as quickly as Delver. However, it is *always* a 2/2, and pumping it to 4/4 is almost always an option. While it lacks evasion, I suppose it makes up for it by being consistently large -- in fact, large enough to survive Bolt.format, maindeck Pyroblasts, and battles with 3/X critters. Also, without Delver the deck doesn't need to run nearly as many Instant/Sorceries, and you can see the end result in choosing to run 3 planeswalkers, 2 TNN and a Sylvan Library. In a vacuum, this deck is probably capable of racing to 20 damage much faster than typical stock Delver lists.

Stubborn Denial is interesting. Daze is at its best when it's backing up a turn 1 Deathrite Shaman or if you are tapping out for [whatever], but as long as you have 1 open mana SD is practically the same (minus not hitting creatures), and is frequently a hard-counter thanks to the deck running 8 'ferocious' creatures. There are some corner cases where bouncing back lands to your hands is actually an advantage of Daze (e.g. against something like Sinkhole, or shuffling away extra lands in the midgame with Bstorm + fetch), but in general I could see having a 'Counterspell' being a huge trump in certain matchups. It's also nice if you lack any early-turn plays but still want to counter your opponent's [non-creature spell] -- unlike Daze, you're not set back a land drop.

Overall I think this is a better option for a format like Modern where Daze isn't even available. However I thought it was worth mentioning since it shows there is still room for innovation in Legacy.

Stubborn Denial doesn't stop TNN or SFM or Eidolon of the Great Revel. I'd never pull Daze for it. It might be a good 2-of in a 10 to 12 counter list with a slower game plan and no need to tap out early.

So with Cruise's banning, is it time to go back to the Bayou/Hymn to Tourach/Liliana of the Veil lists?

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Originally Posted by Grand Superior

So with Cruise's banning, is it time to go back to the Bayou/Hymn to Tourach/Liliana of the Veil lists?

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Yep... naturally that's the first line of testing.

Tombstalker or DTT? Or both? Maybe a 2/1 split

With Tombstalker or DTT you're looking at UU or BB, and if you plan on playing Hymns and Lily I'm not sure I like DTT as much as Tombstalker sine we'll be running likely 2 Bayous and less Trops.

My upcoming testing will be with 12 creatures (pre-TC I was running 14 like many lists) and trying to get some more toys in the deck in place of my previous 2 Tombstalkers. I did enjoy running 2 Disfigure and 1 Spell Pierce MB when Cruise was legal, so might start there. I won't be disappointed if I end up back to my "old" list :)

Dig Through Time seems better in other style of decks, e.g. UW(r) Miracles, OmniTell. I think RUG also might end up adopting 1-2 copies since they typically want to hold up Blue mana on their opponent's turns.

Team America is an aggressive deck that typically wants to tap out on its own turns, particularly if you are playing a version that runs Hymn to Tourach and Liliana. Sylvan Library is probably the better card for that slot in BUG. Maybe 1 copy of DTT could work its way in.

I am curious as to whether Tasigur, the Golden Fang might be worth considering in Tombstalker slot(s). While lacking evasion and 1 point of power, he's a lot easier to cast and has an ability that could occasionally help out in niche scenarios.

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Originally Posted by wcm8

Dig Through Time seems better in other style of decks, e.g. UW(r) Miracles, OmniTell. I think RUG also might end up adopting 1-2 copies since they typically want to hold up Blue mana on their opponent's turns.

Team America is an aggressive deck that typically wants to tap out on its own turns, particularly if you are playing a version that runs Hymn to Tourach and Liliana. Sylvan Library is probably the better card for that slot in BUG. Maybe 1 copy of DTT could work its way in.

I am curious as to whether Tasigur, the Golden Fang might be worth considering in Tombstalker slot(s). While lacking evasion and 1 point of power, he's a lot easier to cast and has an ability that could occasionally help out in niche scenarios.

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I'm going to test 2 Dig alongside 1 Sylvan and see how it goes. Tasigur, the Golden Fang seems interesting, but I'm not sure I want to be screwing around with mini-Fact or Fiction instead of killing my opponent. As a sideboard card against Miracles he seems great, though.

In any case, looks like we're the best deck again!

Curious, you going with the Hymn suite and Liliana, in addition to 1/2 DTT?

I wonder if we're going to see Wasteland become more prevalent, and if so, double cc spells make me slightly reserved unless it's BB. Lemme know how your play-testing goes.

Finally, Tarmogoyf can grow +1 with a Lily in the bin :) He seemed to be stuck on a 4/5 for the past few months...

Definitely Hymn and Liliana. I've never been a fan of the Stifle builds, even against Cruise.

Wow, with Treasure Cruise banning, that should make BUG a threat once a again, huge move in our favor.

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Originally Posted by btm10

Definitely Hymn and Liliana. I've never been a fan of the Stifle builds, even against Cruise.

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Versus Thoughtseize I where I was going, to help reduce the number of double color spells (i.e. BB, UU). I think TS would be faster to fuel the bin for DTT, but I just don't see the future as a race to DTT as we're used to seeing the race to Cruise.

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Originally Posted by Fallacy

Versus Thoughtseize I where I was going, to help reduce the number of double color spells (i.e. BB, UU). I think TS would be faster to fuel the bin for DTT, but I just don't see the future as a race to DTT as we're used to seeing the race to Cruise.

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Yeah, I agree with this. Dig plays really well with our pre-Cruise game plan of forcing a topdeck war with us ahead or at parity, and then winning said topdeck war with bombs like Sylvan Library, Liliana, and Tarmogoyf, re-invigorating the Delver + protection plan with our opponent out of resources, or just keeping everyone hellbent and grinding them out with DRS. Dig slots perfectly into those plans.

As for Thoughtseize, I'm guessing we just default back to the original Hymn plan being stronger, but I could be wrong. Testing will tell.

Cruise hit mana denial even harder than discard in BUG Delver I think. With most decks just packed with cheap cantrips and Treasure Cruises it was incorrect to expect wastelands and stifles to take someone off of mana for the majority of the game. I think both of those cards went way down in value. Now with Cruise gone again, I'll be going BACK to my stifle BUG lists that I was really loving.

I'm considering getting my 3rd Underground Sea to play BUG Delver. How important is the fourth US to the Hymn/Liliana build of the deck?

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Originally Posted by edahl

I'm considering getting my 3rd Underground Sea to play BUG Delver. How important is the fourth US to the Hymn/Liliana build of the deck?

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In this build I always played 4 UGsea, 2 Bayou, and 1 Trop, next to 4 Wasteland and 9 fetches and had great success (20 land 7 duals). I think most would agree that is classic Team America. More fetches and less duals (19 land with 6 duals) was more important during the Cruise-era in my opinion, but I don't think you'd notice so long as you keep 3(or 4) UG sea, 2 Bayou, and 1 Trop with the Lily/Hymn build.

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Originally Posted by Fallacy

In this build I always played 4 UGsea, 2 Bayou, and 1 Trop, next to 4 Wasteland and 9 fetches and had great success (20 land 7 duals). I think most would agree that is classic Team America. More fetches and less duals (19 land with 6 duals) was more important during the Cruise-era in my opinion, but I don't think you'd notice so long as you keep 3(or 4) UG sea, 2 Bayou, and 1 Trop with the Lily/Hymn build.

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I prefer a 19 Land, 8 Fetch 3/2/2 Sea/Trop/Bayou split + 4 Wasetland for versions requiring a larger black commitment, but that's totally a playstyle/personal preference thing.

EDIT:

This is the build I'm going to start testing from:

Creatures (12)

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Delver of Secrets

Draw/Manipulation (11)
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
1 Dig Through Time
1 Sylvan Library

Disruption (18)

4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Spell Pierce

Land (19)

4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Polluted Delta
4 Wasteland
2 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
3 Underground Sea

Thanks for the help :) I'll stick to 3 US for now then (or 2 and a Watery Grave).

For starters, I think I'm going to play something like this, which was a combination of my pre-TC deck and TC deck:

4 DRS
4 Delver
4 Goyf

4 Ponder
4 Hymn to Tourach (considering 3-2 split between Hymns and Thoughtsieze)

4 Brainstorm
2 Disfigure (1 could be a flex card TBD)
1 Spell Pierce (possible flex card TBD, can always pitch to FoW)
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Daze
4 FoW

2 Liliana of the Veil

2 Bayou
1 Trop
4 UG Sea
8 Fetches
4 Wasteland

Sideboard:
2 Disfigure
2 Flusterstorm
2 GD Cage
2 Spell Pierce
2 Golgari Charm
1 Null Rod
1 K Grip
1 Liliana of the Veil
2 V Clique

A few things I'm looking to test:
-Split Hymn and Thoughtseize 3-2, or just run 4 Hymn?
-1 Tombstalker? 2 Tombstalkers?
-Does 1 DTT fit in here? Perhaps not if trying to get 1-2 Tombstalkers in the mix.
-Need to make room for 1 Sylvan Library in the SB
-Maelstrom Pulse in SB, maybe against Miracles and other annoying cards like Jace
-Creeping Tarpit becomes more viable as a 1-of

A few observations thus far:
-19 land seemed correct previously and will try again
-Decent anti-combo / Storm with access to countermagic and V Clique
-Decent removal package against Maverick and Elves with 4 Abrupt Decay, 2 Golgari Charm, 4 Disfigures, 3 Liliana's
-Miracles MU looks OK, could use another K Grip, a Creeping Tar Pit, or Maelstrom Pulse though

Open for feedback.

I would stay away from DTT, gonna be hard to cast, but might be a good 1 of to pitch to FOW. If you don't use Tombstalker, you might want to try 2-3 Bobs.

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Originally Posted by Fallacy

A few things I'm looking to test:
-Split Hymn and Thoughtseize 3-2, or just run 4 Hymn?

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This is reasonable to test as there are some decks against which specificity with your discard is important. I think that spending more than 4 slots on Hymn/Thoughtseize is probably wrong because of how bad it is if the game goes long, so a 3-1 split might be better. At least that's my intuition. You might want to try Dismember or Dimir Charm in at least one of the Disfigure slots, too. My own gut feeling is that you don't want to spend more than 1 MD slot on something that's dead against combo and Miracles and mostly dead against things like Jund, UWx Blade and Shardless. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Baneslayers that have sprung up in Blade and Miracles SBs stay, so Dismember might be the best call. It's a flex slot though, and there are a lot of options to test there.

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-1 Tombstalker? 2 Tombstalkers?
-Does 1 DTT fit in here? Perhaps not if trying to get 1-2 Tombstalkers in the mix.

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I've never been impressed with Tombstalker in this deck. He's huge and evasive, but he also isn't castable until turn 4 at the earliest, and he's awful in the face of Jace, which is one of the only cards that matters against Miracles and is straight-up gamebreaking against Shardless. I'd like at least 1 Dig, possibly 2, but I'll see how testing goes. TNN is usually better all-around as a 13th threat than Tombstalker, especially in the face of Rest in Peace or Scavenging Ooze.

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-Need to make room for 1 Sylvan Library in the SB
-Maelstrom Pulse in SB, maybe against Miracles and other annoying cards like Jace

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I'd probably cut the SB Liliana for the Library, and the Flusterstorms and maybe one Vendilion Clique for a Pithing Needle, the Maelstrom Pulse, and if you cut a Clique the third Spell Pierce, or...

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-Creeping Tarpit becomes more viable as a 1-of
A few observations thus far:
-Miracles MU looks OK, could use another K Grip, a Creeping Tar Pit, or Maelstrom Pulse though

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a piece of Miracles-specific hate if that 's what you're in the market for. Zur's Weirding is insane against Miracles by itself, and dramatically amplifies the value of your discard against them. The second SB Clique slot is also the place I'd be looking to insert a Tar Pit if that's something you're interested in. All that being said, Clique, 2 Pierce, Pulse, Library, and Grip are all great general-purpose SB cards that come in against a variety of matchups, but the third Liliana, second Clique, and Tarpit are really only good against Miracles and other extremely grindy matchups like Shardless, and I'm not a big fan of overboarding for already favorable matchups.

Spell Snare is probably going to make a comeback at this point. There are too many 2cc bombs in the best lists at this point. So Thoughtseize over Hymn may still be a good play. BUG only has 9 2cc's that can be countered in most lists anyway. Maybe it's ok to just take the 1-for-1 trades on the Hymns and live with them.

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Originally Posted by FoolofaTook

Spell Snare is probably going to make a comeback at this point. There are too many 2cc bombs in the best lists at this point. So Thoughtseize over Hymn may still be a good play. BUG only has 9 2cc's that can be countered in most lists anyway. Maybe it's ok to just take the 1-for-1 trades on the Hymns and live with them.

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You can test it, but I don't see why people would be running more Snares than they were pre-Cruise. If anything, we'll see fewer 2 CMC must-counters than before because there's retrenchment from both Reanimator and UWr decks because they're both soft to BGx decks.

I've missed about a month and a half of playing due to illness, holidays, birth of a child, etc, but it looks like this week I can get back on the horse.

One reason I like a 3/2 split of Hymn and Seize is that a first turn Seize, second turn Hymn, with Daze can be real devestating versus most opponents.

I'll try the split and see how I like it.

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Originally Posted by btm10

You can test it, but I don't see why people would be running more Snares than they were pre-Cruise. If anything, we'll see fewer 2 CMC must-counters than before because there's retrenchment from both Reanimator and UWr decks because they're both soft to BGx decks.

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I don't know that BUG should be running Spell Snare but I think lists facing BUG should be running a couple of copies. Having Abrupt Decay as a catch-all manages things that many lists just can't manage well. It doesn't resolve the problem of how best to defend against a wide range of 2cc threats but Spell Pierce catches enough of them that you can live with the overflow.

Spell Snare is not a good enough reason to justify cutting Hymn. If they happen to counter Hymn, it's a 1-for-1 exchange -- same as if you were to Thoughtseize their Spell Snare, except you're also losing 2 life.

While I do expect cards like Jace and Ancestral Visions to make a comeback in the absence of Treasure Cruise, I think the 2-for-1 power of Hymn is better in this deck than targeted discard. Those sort of cards tend to work much better in UB(x) combo decks, or midrange decks with Snapcaster. For TA, only in a combo-heavy metagame would I want to run a 3/2 split in the main 60.

I am definitely thinking that Dark Confidant could reappear in creature slots 13-14, as I expect UW(r) Miracles to become (more) popular.

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Originally Posted by H

I've missed about a month and a half of playing due to illness, holidays, birth of a child, etc, but it looks like this week I can get back on the horse.

One reason I like a 3/2 split of Hymn and Seize is that a first turn Seize, second turn Hymn, with Daze can be real devestating versus most opponents.

I'll try the split and see how I like it.

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Congrats on the kid, and definitely post your results. I'm a little skeptical about five MD discard spells given that they just get pitched to Liliana in the late game most of the time, but we'll see.

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Originally Posted by FoolofaTook

I don't know that BUG should be running Spell Snare but I think lists facing BUG should be running a couple of copies. Having Abrupt Decay as a catch-all manages things that many lists just can't manage well. It doesn't resolve the problem of how best to defend against a wide range of 2cc threats but Spell Pierce catches enough of them that you can live with the overflow.

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I didn't think that you were suggesting Snare for TA, but my point still stands - with the possible exception of a 1-of from RUG, I don't expect people to run many Snares. The card is just too narrow. In any case, wcm8 is right.

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Originally Posted by btm10

Congtats on the kid, and definitely post your results. I'm a little skeptical about five MD discard spells given that they just get pitched to Liliana in the late game most of the time, but we'll see.



I didn't think that you were suggesting Snare for TA, but my point still stands - with the possible exceprion of a 1-of from RUG, I don't expect people to run many Snares. The card is just too narrow. In any case, wcm8 is right.

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Thanks, been a bit of an adventure. Well, I think I have tried 5 before, I really want to hit them with something on turns 1-2, at least to see what they were, or are, working with.

Right now, I threw together a list, it is pretty much stock, but I am trying the 3/2 Hymn/TS split and a 1-of DtT and Tombstalker. It's basically what I played before the delve spells came out, just with a DtT added in.

If Dig doesn't seem that good, I'd be happy to play Confidant, but I don't think I want both.

Hey Sourcers. Pretty excited that TC got the banhammer; now I can continue to Hymn and Waste my opponents with gusto. Here is the list I expect to run for the SCG PIQ this Sunday in DC. I expect the field to include a lot of Miracles, Elves, Death and Taxes, RUG, Sneak and Show, and Shardless BUG. Any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks.

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Dark Confidant
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
1 Sylvan Library
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Hymn to Tourach
1 Dimir Charm
3 Force of Will
3 Daze
1 Spell Pierce
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
9 Fetches
4 Wasteland

Board:
3 Disfigure
2 Golgari Charm
1 Force of Will
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Envelop
1 Spell Pierce
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Null Rod
1 Pithing Needle
1 Grafdigger's Cage

Looks pretty good. To keep our tapout play style I would add a 4th Daze to the main. I'm not keen on the Toxic Deluge in the SB since you already have 3 Disfigures and 2 Golgari Charm. Envelop, eh. The second Jace is fun, but I'm not sure how necessary. A Kgrip or Flusterstorm would be two more diverse cards in the SB, that's my personal pref.

So, I threw together a sideboard last night, not knowing what my local meta has been looking like. I know the usual suspects will be there, which means at least one Lands deck. How do you feel about boarding versus that in general? I think I will be packing a Surgical Extraction, since it can be useful versus Reanimator as well. Possibly one more card? Did anyone ever like Winter Orb in testing? I saw it in a few lists and it seems interesting, since it can come in versus Miracles as well.

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Originally Posted by H

So, I threw together a sideboard last night, not knowing what my local meta has been looking like. I know the usual suspects will be there, which means at least one Lands deck. How do you feel about boarding versus that in general? I think I will be packing a Surgical Extraction, since it can be useful versus Reanimator as well. Possibly one more card? Did anyone ever like Winter Orb in testing? I saw it in a few lists and it seems interesting, since it can come in versus Miracles as well.

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I've always liked Extirpate/Surgical against Lands; they're like 5th Deathrites that can't be killed with Punishing Fire. I tend to over-board for graveyard matchups, so I've been on 2 Cage and 1 Surgical, but that might be overkill. Winter Orb is fantastic against Miracles, but honestly I haven't tested it against Lands. It could be really good.

Has anyone considered Dead Weight over disfigure?

The sorcery speed is lame; but the fact it basically "kills" Serra Avenger, is an Enchant for Goyf, can win Goyf stalls at no risk, and similar; makes it seem pretty Ok. In a discard build (tap out) I could see it being roughly as effective as Difigure but being dead less often.

Even attaching it to Griselbrand gives you a good chance of your Goyf being able to just attack through (assuming an artifact, walker, enchant, or tribal has made it to the grave.)

I get that it doesn't flip delver, but if it's a 2-of or something anyway I don't consider that a strong argument. Sorcery vs. instant doesn't seem important enough in this deck either. It just seems like it'd be a dead card a lot less often and Goyf pumps are always welcome in my book.