Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
exallium
Thanks for the report!
Questions: How was swan song? Idk if I'd just rather another BEB or something along those lines. Also, why RIP over Containment Priest? Priest would help greatly improve your S&S matchup
To answer your questions:
1) Swan Song wasn't terrible actually. It was really nice to have a 1 mana "Counterspell" against the decks I brought it in for. When I casted it though, it was really strong. There was a time when I Swan Song'd a spell and then was a little nervous that I might die to the 2/2 because it was a matchup where I boarded out all of my removal except Jace and Supreme Verdict. But I was able to rip an entreat to put the game away before I lost too much life from the 2/2 bird.
2) RIP over Containment Priest? There were a couple of reasons for this. Number 1) I copied a list that had a lot of interesting card choices that I wanted to experiment with and try out. Number 2) I didn't find it unreasonable to play 2 Rest in Peace 1 Relic of Progenitus when I'm not playing Snapcaster Mage in the list. So for a deck where I'd want Graveyard Hate, it was an easy swap of -3 Dig Through Time +2 Rest in Peace +1 Relic of Progenitus. I also didn't expect to play 3 rounds against Sneak and Show either so in the future, I'm sure I'll be making some changes to the decklist and future sideboard plans will likely include Containment Priest as this last tournament has me wondering if it was a mistake not running any at all.
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Einherjer
Great read Ein! It was great to meet all of you at NJ, and I should be seeing you all again in Lille!
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hrothgar
Containment Priest - great card vs Sneak and Show, Aether Vial based decks, Reanimator.
Imho Stoneforge plan vs S&S is not a great plan...
I agree that the Stoneforge Plan isn't great against Sneak and Show. But if I recall correctly, my sideboard plan vs Sneak and Show was
-3 Terminus, -4 Swords to Plowshares, -3 Dig Through Time
+1 Vendilion Clique +1 Flusterstorm + 1 Wear//Tear +1 Swan Song +1 Blue Elemental Blast +1 Red Elemental Blast +1 Pyroblast
So this above is what I'd replace the 4 Swords to Plowshares and the 3 Terminus with. And then I got to thinking about how my Game 1's were going and I didn't interact with them enough to really fill my Graveyard all that well for casting Dig Through Time, so I thought why not just board out the 3 Dig Through Times and bring in the 2 Stoneforge Mystics and 1 Batterskull? Against Sneak and Show it's important to have a clock against them and Stoneforge Mystic could do that fairly easily. So even though I don't think it's the best plan against them overall, based on the fact that I didn't want Dig Through Time in my deck post board and I didn't really have anything else to bring in, having a cheap threat against them that could be cast early did not seem unreasonable.
Also I decided to go with the Stoneforge Mystic plan in my board again because I copied that list, but also because I knew there would be quite a few people playing Burn, and I really wanted something that would gain me a bunch of life against burn to supplement getting a CounterTop lock online against them.
I've also been having a really hard time against Death and Taxes with both the Ponder build and the Dig Through Time build of Miracles. And even though I didn't play against Death and Taxes in this tournament, I wanted to see if Stoneforge Mystic/Batterskull would help improve that matchup any. But I didn't get to find out yet. As for playing Stoneforge Mystic package in the future? That's hard to say whether I will or won't. But it came in handy to pull out a game 2 win for me against Sneak and Show allowing me to get to game 3 and win the matchup. So it was worth it for this particular tournament.
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
exallium
Great read Ein! It was great to meet all of you at NJ, and I should be seeing you all again in Lille!
So basically, nothing different as far as the list is concerned. What changes to the decklist would you consider if Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time get banned in Legacy? What decks do you think would re-emerge in that scenario that Miracles would have to consider for it's card choices?
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Einherjer
lesson learned: "statistical Delver loss."
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
drocker23
So basically, nothing different as far as the list is concerned. What changes to the decklist would you consider if Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time get banned in Legacy? What decks do you think would re-emerge in that scenario that Miracles would have to consider for it's card choices?
If they ban TC/DTT we just play the old Ovino list again, which is -2 REB +1 Counterspell +1 Judgment and that's it. It's actually that easy. :)
Greetings
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
I actually really don't like Council's Judgement. I have the one in the board, and I don't ever see wanting it again. It's 3-mana removal at this point. I suppose it's good against BUG Midrange/Control, but it seems really awkward everywhere else.
I also don't expect them to ban both. Maybe Cruise, but not Dig.
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Yeah... i really dont know what to expect of the bannings neither do i know if i want TC or DTT banned. I mean TC is really a stupid card especially when u see people just jamming spell after spell like mental note. so if they were to ban TC people would just change to DTT. consequently the format would become more controlish and one would see less (harmful) aggro.
I dont really like any of the before mentioned cards. Of course wizards tries to sell cards. but those cards are becoming more and more powerful. there must be a limit. I dont really want a one mana draw 5 in 10 years, do I?
However having these cards in the format assures that miracles stays in the format. meaning no ban of top/counterbalance/Brainstorm. So yeah, just whatever.
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
decan
Yeah... i really dont know what to expect of the bannings neither do i know if i want TC or DTT banned. I mean TC is really a stupid card especially when u see people just jamming spell after spell like mental note. so if they were to ban TC people would just change to DTT. consequently the format would become more controlish and one would see less (harmful) aggro.
I dont really like any of the before mentioned cards. Of course wizards tries to sell cards. but those cards are becoming more and more powerful. there must be a limit. I dont really want a one mana draw 5 in 10 years, do I?
However having these cards in the format assures that miracles stays in the format. meaning no ban of top/counterbalance/Brainstorm. So yeah, just whatever.
That's not true. Decks running TC now cannot just switch to DTT. DTT belongs to heavy Blue decks such as High Tide, Show and Tell, and Miracles.
Because of TC, Stifle and Wasteland have been less popular, which is actually Good for Miracles. After you trade 1-for-1 against your opponent and you hope SDT's Card Quality will carry you, but then your opponent just TC to refuel, that's the annoying part.
You misunderstood Wizards. It's Not that new cards are becoming more powerful, it's they design the new cards with little Eternal format testing in mind. In other words, they concern very little.
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Quick question (if this has been answered before, I apologize) - using Philipp's GPNJ list, what does the postboard configuration look like against UWr Stoneblade with Snapcaster, SFM, and TNN as the creatures (assume they are not boarding into CounterTop)?
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
[QUOTE=YamiJoey;861298]I actually really don't like Council's Judgement. I have the one in the board, and I don't ever see wanting it again. It's 3-mana removal at this point. I suppose it's good against BUG Midrange/Control, but it seems really awkward everywhere else.
I have to disagree. I personally lIke having access to vindicate. Especially if treasure cruise gets banned that means people wont be playing young pyromancer anymore and they'll be back on Liliana, stoneforge mystic, and true name nemesis. And I'll take a councils judgment all day every day against those cards.
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
First and foremost: Chances of TC getting banned in the FIRST B&R announcement after printing, is VERY unlikely!
And secondly: Tomas Vlcek (Philip's Miracles companian) advocated for an inclusion of 1 Dig, cutting 1 Jace from the deck. How come this sudden approach? You used to, very much, say DTT was a shitcard for miracles, Philip (exaggeration of course)
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
@Droker: That's the thing; those decks aren't good at the moment, so I just hate the card.
Also, on reflection, I'm cutting Keranos and the sideboard Entreat. -1 Counterspell, +1 Preordane. -1 Judgment, Entreat, Needle, Moon, Staticaster, Keranos, +1 Counterspell, Sudden Shock, 2 BEB, Flusterstorm. That seems to be a significantly better plan. I just need to get some Hydros/BEBs. That makes my total sideboard:
2 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Flusterstorm
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Counterspell
2 Sudden Shock
1 Wear // Tear
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Rest in Peace
2 Vendilion Clique
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
exallium
Great read Ein! It was great to meet all of you at NJ, and I should be seeing you all again in Lille!
Thanks! Yes, it was a blast. Was a pleasure meeting you all. :D
Btw:
If you'd like to see more Legacy content, let SCG know either through Like/comment or here:
https://sales.starcitygames.com/cont....php?emailid=2
Quasim0ff: As soon as I saw Mondays B/R Update I'll answer your question. But I can't really recall calling it a shitcard.
That was my old opinion:
"On Dig Through Time: I didn't test this as much as I tested... like pretty much everything due to not really having enough time. But here's what I found:
Dig Through Time has to replace either Jace, the Mindsculptor, Snapcaster Mage or Ponder. (are you mad?!) In a format that is as sped up as Legacy is right now and with a deck-mechanic (Miracle) that is as clunky as it is I think cutting Ponder for it is madness, while cutting Snapcaster Mage puts you in danger of not being able to react fast enough vs aggressive decks (UR) or Combo. It's important to have a reload-button after you've wasted/used your first Swords on their creatures or Red Elemental Blasts on their Show and Tells. Dig Through Time will find them, you tell me? Show me how you cast it reliably T3 and re-use Swords/REB/Brainstorm.
It also doesn't block.
Cutting Jace for it is alright. It's better than Jace in a fast format. But hold your breath for a second, didn't I just say we need things to survive in a fast metagame? Well, correct: That's why we have 4 Ponder and 3 (I wish I could play the 4th) Snapcaster Mages. They allow us to survive. If we're into the lategame we want something that is amazing, not just a slightly better Snapcaster Mage. We need something that will take over the game and ******* win. Not every opponent will concede. Jace does just that while also adding in the utility to being a good way to delay/beat Batterskull in the Mirror/Stoneblade-matches."
I'll give you my new one on Monday.
Greetings
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
I got to counter a Treasure Cruise with Counterbalance once. Dig Through Time was the 3rd card down lol. It felt good.
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
drocker23
I got to counter a Treasure Cruise with Counterbalance once. Dig Through Time was the 3rd card down lol. It felt good.
Still no reason to run even more cards that brick your starting grip and are redundant later in the game once the card selection of Ponder/SDT/Jace/Fetchlands takes over
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Einherjer
Thanks for your articles Ein, the analysis is very interesting and useful, in particular for players who don't have time to playtest as much as they'd like.
I'm actually surprised to see how well the deck performs in a TC meta, and how little it changed. I guess better facing TC than Shardless with planeswalkers.
I'd also be interested to see the other lists you considered, in particular the one with Thopter Foundry. Are you able to share that? Sorry if you already did...
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dionykos
Thanks for your articles Ein, the analysis is very interesting and useful, in particular for players who don't have time to playtest as much as they'd like.
I'm actually surprised to see how well the deck performs in a TC meta, and how little it changed. I guess better facing TC than Shardless with planeswalkers.
I'd also be interested to see the other lists you considered, in particular the one with Thopter Foundry. Are you able to share that? Sorry if you already did...
Thank you very much! That's very appreciated! And while you're at it, make sure to let SCG know aswell so I can put up more work for you guys!
I don't know if I did publish the list somewhere, but here it is. :)
4 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
4 Island
2 Plains
4 Flooded Strand
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Thopter Foundry
1 Sword of the Meek
1 Batterskull
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Counterbalance
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Terminus
1 Entreat the Angels
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Counterspell
1 Academy Ruins
SB: 1 Batterskull
SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Pyroblast
SB: 3 Vendilion Clique
SB: 3 Flusterstorm
SB: 2 Council's Judgment
SB: 1 Counterspell
SB: 1 Entreat the Angels
Greetings
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Einherjer
I don't know if I did publish the list somewhere, but here it is. :)
4 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
4 Island
2 Plains
4 Flooded Strand
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Thopter Foundry
1 Sword of the Meek
1 Batterskull
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Counterbalance
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Terminus
1 Entreat the Angels
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Counterspell
1 Academy Ruins
SB: 1 Batterskull
SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Pyroblast
SB: 3 Vendilion Clique
SB: 3 Flusterstorm
SB: 2 Council's Judgment
SB: 1 Counterspell
SB: 1 Entreat the Angels
Greetings
what is this list?
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
It's an option miracles has in a meta different from the current one. Go read Ein's article for explanations.
From my phone. I do my best, dammit!
