Re: [DTB] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Qweerios
-3 Birthing Pods. Playing less than 4 Pods in a non-blue Pod deck seems wrong.
Pod isn't always amazing and the deck does run 4 gsz.
Quote:
-0 Murderous Redcap. This card was probably my #1 Pod target even in a Rector-Pod deck. It has so much removal potential and Pod potential in general. It kills 2 toughness creatures upon arival, 1 toughness creatures upon departure (block or pod), grants up to 2 Pod bodies for 5drops, removes loyalty counters from PWs, and much more. Even without Recurring Nightmare I highly recommend this card.
Agreed.
Quote:
Do Pod decks really need a 6drop in general? Isn't Thrun + Equipments enough to take on most games without having access to any 6drops? I would personally take Sigarda over Grave Titan as a finisher on the top of my curve.
6-drops help
Nic fit needs to be threat dense with how much we tend to rely on topdecking
Re: [DTB] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Qweerios
I like your Junk Pod list. It is reminiscent of the one I posted a few months back before TNN was released and shares the same core cards (4 GSZ and 4 Decay). It was a successful (not tier 1 though) and very rewarding deck to play. The main change here is that you changed the Rector package (Rector, Deed, Recurring Nightmare) for a SFM package. SFM was something I was contemplating for never got around to it because I would have to let go of the Rector package. It trades late game late debilitating interactions for a lower curve and gives the deck much needed life gain via Jitte and Skull. Here are the things that caught my attention:
-3 Birthing Pods. Playing less than 4 Pods in a non-blue Pod deck seems wrong.
-0 Wall of Blossoms and 4 SFM. Playing 4 SFM with 2 equipments and without Brainstorm generally means that the 2nd or 3rd SFM won't be able to fetch anything. You also have no good Pod bodies to GSZ for at 2 when you wish to Pod into a 3drop. You can do it with Teeg and Ooze but you will forfeit a free draw and lose a silver bullet in the process. Wall of Blossoms is definitely a good card all around for Pod because it is still one of the best 2drop Pod bodies availlable. I think a 3/1 split of SFM/WoB would augment your flexibility and consistency.
-4 Deathrites. Like you, I played both 3 and 4 copies of DRS and they are great t1 plays. Issues arise when I get more than 1 DRS and cannot convert them into anything else because I lack a Pod or have better things to do with my Pod than to pod into a 2drop. It is very difficult to make use of a single DRS at times and activating 2 DRS every turn is extremely rare because a single DRS will generally eat 1 land per turn in a GY and we will then struggle to find the mana to ping for 2 every turn when lands are depleted. I believe 3 DRS is the right number for a Pod deck with 4 GSZ for Arbor and 4 Explorers. The 4th copy is redundant and eats up space.
-0 Murderous Redcap. This card was probably my #1 Pod target even in a Rector-Pod deck. It has so much removal potential and Pod potential in general. It kills 2 toughness creatures upon arival, 1 toughness creatures upon departure (block or pod), grants up to 2 Pod bodies for 5drops, removes loyalty counters from PWs, and much more. Even without Recurring Nightmare I highly recommend this card.
-1 Wickerbough Elder. I never liked this card in Pod or any Nic Fit deck for several reasons. The first is that artifact/enchantment removal is already well represented with 4 Decays, 4 GSZ, 3-4 Pods and 1 Harmonic Sliver. The second is that it is a virtual 5drop because you have to pay additional mana for its effect. At 5 mana, Acidic Slime is much better because it has Deathtouch and can destroy lands.
-0 Restoration Angel. This card is extremely good in any Pod deck in general for several reasons as well. I used to play it religiously in a Rector Pod list, but your version seems an even better fit for it given SFM. A 3/4, Flying, Flash body is a powerful tool in legacy and much needed in this deck. It blocks Delvers and Cliques, cannot be Bolted or Decayed, and carries equipments like a champ. Its flickering ability is great when coupled with virtually all of the Pod creatures as it triggers CiP abilities, leave play abilities, resets Persist/Undying, and saves creatures from targeted removal! Combine her with a Thragtusk or a Titan and you've pretty much clogged the board with value.
Questions and concerns:
How is Gaea's Cradle faring? I think it is an interesting addition but I don't know if the opportunity cost is worth it.
Is Volrath's Stronghold necessary? I know how good it is and how minimal of an investment it appears to be. However, Pod tends tend to only want creatures and lands.
Do you need 4 Forests and 3 Swamps? 8 basic lands is a lot for any Nic Fit deck and a healthy dose of basic lands tend to hover around 5-7. It seems to me like additional fetches would give you more color availability and you could definitely do without the 3rd Swamp and the 4th Forest (even the 3rd).
Why non-green fetches (Marsh Flats)? Green is your primary color and green fetches can grab Dryad Arbor to start Pod chains.
Do Pod decks really need a 6drop in general? Isn't Thrun + Equipments enough to take on most games without having access to any 6drops? I would personally take Sigarda over Grave Titan as a finisher on the top of my curve.
Thanks for your response and you are right in a lot of points. I didnt like any of my CMC2 on GSZ so I just took them out (wall of blossoms, strangleroot geist, etc) so finally I put my SFM package. I made some changes today before the tournament.
1. I like Pod but drawing them in multiples early game is not good, plus 4 gsz you can fetch almost everything.
2. Doing a GSZ for Wall of blossoms was pretty lame for me... 1G 0/4 random draw vs 1G opposing goyf? no thxs... 1W 1/2 Bskull draw seems better.
3. DRS is godlike and helps for the curve (i had to go up to 7-8 fetchs for them)
4. Murderous Redcap just dont make the cut for me... i had 1 in sb though.
5. You are right, i talked to a friend and took out some of my silver bullets for some bombs... put Linvala instead of Wickerbough
6. I used to play Resto angel (2 copies) and I put them back today... they are just so very good, and flying is also a valuable thing with equipments... being cmc4 is good against decay also and out of bolt range...
Answers:
1. Not being able to fetch gaea cradle anytime I want was bad... it was very random and clogged some initial hands.
2. Volrath's Stronghold is good enough to ensure your top decks... but it is not necessary... just helpful
3. Today I played 3 forest 3 swamp 1 plains and 7 fetchs to feed DRS.
4. I took out marsh flats... not being able to fetch dryad was my main reason.
5. Again, you make your point... Grave titan is great... it must be for 6 mana... but leaving my curve to 5 seems good and I love sigarda as a beater... today I took some games with resto angel equipped... and I would be happy to trade resto for sigarda...
My final list is:
Pod Rock
Lands [21]
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
1 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Forest
3 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Dryad Arbor
Creatures [23]
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Restoration Angel
1 Shriekmaw
1 Thragtusk
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
Spells [17]
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Birthing Pod
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Sb:
4 Natural Order
1 Progenitus
1 Ruric
4 Thoughtseize
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Redcap Morderous
1 Orzhov Pontiff
Re: [DTB] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Re: [DTB] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Re: Dark Depths. I agree here. That card was printed to kill nic fit. Sure, you can play a karakas or StP in your decks but they will only buy you a turn or two since those decks are normaly playing loam, wastelands and crucible (oh and if you destroy curcible they got academy ruins)
Re: [DTB] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
In the stage depths match up, getting active scavenging ooze seems to be the key.
Re: [DTB] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Megadeus
In the stage depths match up, getting active scavenging ooze seems to be the key.
I play 2 Pithing Needle in my current Sideboard.
My Maindeck Defense is 1 Deathrite, 1 Ooze, 1 Pulse and 3 Lilianas. The Sorcery-Speed Solutions only work if you get a lifegain online (Thragtusk, Huntmaster etc.), so they can't "Oneshot" you with EoT Token and Attack.
Sideboard Support contains one more Deathrite, 2 Needles and 2 Extractions. Needles helped a lot to avoid the EoT-Attack-Kill. Extraction, Ooze and Deathrite can fight the loam plan, which is the common way (besides Crop Rotation) to get the Lands Combo in Play.
With Needles it is still a hard matchup but you get a opportunity to fight back. Without Needles you can only pray to catch them off-guard if they use loam and you get Ooze online.
Re: [DTB] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MD.Ghost
I play 2 Pithing Needle in my current Sideboard.
My Maindeck Defense is 1 Deathrite, 1 Ooze, 1 Pulse and 3 Lilianas. The Sorcery-Speed Solutions only work if you get a lifegain online (Thragtusk, Huntmaster etc.), so they can't "Oneshot" you with EoT Token and Attack.
Sideboard Support contains one more Deathrite, 2 Needles and 2 Extractions. Needles helped a lot to avoid the EoT-Attack-Kill. Extraction, Ooze and Deathrite can fight the loam plan, which is the common way (besides Crop Rotation) to get the Lands Combo in Play.
With Needles it is still a hard matchup but you get a opportunity to fight back. Without Needles you can only pray to catch them off-guard if they use loam and you get Ooze online.
Marit Lage is indestructible so Pulse won't work at all.
Everything else is correct.
Re: [DTB] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MD.Ghost
My Maindeck Defense is 1 Deathrite, 1 Ooze, 1 Pulse and 3 Lilianas.
The pulse doesn't work because the token is indestructible.
Re: [DTB] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Qweerios
I really think 4 drs is the correct number. I would play at least 21 lands as minimum... i finally cut the volraths stronghold, but phyrexian tower is just a must have.
I dont feel comfortable playing wall of blossoms... is so underpower compared to others cmc2 (bob, goyf, etc), my deck list plays teeg and ooze to gsz... both of those cards wins against the matches i want them, if not, i will be happy to trade them with pod. May be some deeds on your 75? Also, thrun is great against miracles
Re: [DTB] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Stages Depths is hard to manage when they go off with Living Wish/Crop Rotation for Hex Mage/Stage/Depths. There is only little interactions to be had there and it all occurs so fast. I don't think this matchup is worth trying to improve since it is so obscure and difficult. Compare it to 12 Post if you will.
@Kentrell,
During several games I couldn't use more than a single DRS' mana producing ability and had more pressing things to do than pay mana to ping my opponent. When you draw 2 you just hope your opponent removes him so you can get a bit of value out of your cards...
Wall of Blossoms is one of my most sought after GSZ and Pod targets when building a chain. You don't always want equipments, casting your equipments the following turns isn't always the optimal play, and Jittes/Batterskulls aren't always the most relevant things in every matchup. I favor Blossom over SFM in a lot of tempo matchups as well when I know my opponent is holding removal, then there is simply no value in drawing a Jitte or a BSkull when you are being pressured by a creature that Blossoms can block.
Re: [DTB] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
I decided to try cutting rector. I'm replacing it with a diabolic intent which is useful in all matchups (gets SB cards like thalia or thoughtseize g2-g3). Rector was my go-to card in order to start recurring nightmare insanity against fair decks but without a pod its hard to get going. Intent for recurring nightmare seems like it could work. Considering that this deck is built to crush all fair matchups, would it make sense to include thalia or the new spirit maindeck? Right now I'm testing 3 thalia main and 3 spirit sb. I'm also considering another Teeg in the sb to to bring in vs combo and to help in the miracles matchup. I'm also going to test pithing needle. Here's my list so far:
3 deathrite shaman
4 veteran explorer
1 gaddock teeg
2 wall of blossoms
1 strangleroot geist
3 thalia, guardian of thraben
1 scavenging ooze
1 boneshredder
1 kitchen finks
1 eternal witness
1 harmonic sliver
1 thrun the last troll
1 restoration angel
1 murderous redcap
1 thragtusk
1 shriekmaw
1 sigarda, host of herons
4 green sun's zenith
4 cabal therapy
4 birthing pod
1 diabolic intent
1 recurring nightmare
lands (21)
1 dryad arbor
3 bayou
1 savannah
1 scrubland
1 plains
2 swamp
4 forest
3 windswept heath
1 misty rainforest
4 verdant catacombs
sideboard:
3 thoughtseize
2 surgical extraction
3 abrupt decay
1 pernicious deed
1 orzhov pontif
1 fleshbag marauder
3 spirit of the labyrinth
1 Gaddock Teeg
Re: [DTB] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
I don't like multiple copies of thalia because we can't get value off of it by sacing it to pod or looping it with nightmare and it doesn't immediately win the game in certain matchups like Teeg or Canonist do. Though it's probably worth testing. I really like Spirit, it hurts almost every deck we struggle with at the moment.
Rector is really weird, because when you don't have a sac outlet she feels very underwhelming, but in the right moments she can be exactly what you need. I'm having a hard time evaluating her.
Re: [DTB] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Pod doesn't really beat all fair decks. The assumption that Nic Fit is good against midrange is pretty much based on 4 copies of Deed, and Pod plays none. Thalia is a step in the wrong direction as it is usually as good against us as it is against our opponents. Lab Spirit is sweet but falls under the category of 2 CMC Silver bullets that cannot be GSZ'ed...
Re: [DTB] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Spirit can be rectored out.
Re: [DTB] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Courser of Kruphix 1GG
Enchantment Creature - Centaur (R)
Play with the top card of your library revealed.
You may play the top card of your library if it's a land card.
Whenever a land ETB under your control, gain 1 life.
2/4
I like the guy...
What do you think ?
Re: [DTB] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Qweerios
Pod doesn't really beat all fair decks. The assumption that Nic Fit is good against midrange is pretty much based on 4 copies of Deed, and Pod plays none. Thalia is a step in the wrong direction as it is usually as good against us as it is against our opponents. Lab Spirit is sweet but falls under the category of 2 CMC Silver bullets that cannot be GSZ'ed...
I guess you're right about Thalia. Maybe the Spirit will be more worthwhile but I'm still not sure if it's worth it in the main. After all, 2 stoneforge + 2 equipments could be in its place. However, I am very sure it will improve the show and tell matchup (which is kind of terrible atm) to stop their cantrips early game and to shut off griselbrand. Plus it hits for 3.
In my experience, Pod still does extremely well vs fair/midrange due to pod into rector--> recurring nightmare ---> thragtusk/shriekmaw. It was even more stupid at the time when I played Reveillark/Sun Titan (when deathrite and RiP didn't exist). Adding stoneforge seems to make the matchup even better.
My main concern now is the Miracles matchup. I think we need Thrun and Sigarda in the main. Something I'm extremely considering is a maindeck Taiga with 4 Slaughter Games in the board. Every Jund Nic Fit report I come across always seems to include wins against miracles because of this card...not to mention it helps against combo as well! With Deathrites, Thrun, Sigarda, Abrupt Decay, Gaddock Teeg and Slaughter Games I think we have a chance.
Re: [DTB] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Played last night and went 0-2. Ive lost confidence in the deck tbh. Round 1 vs Esper Blade. He just ran me out of threats. Literally 18 of my 22 creatures were exiled or in the yard. The game went to 5 minutes left in the round and I just conceded. Gave him the match. He STP's twice, snapped it back once, Supreme Verdict twice, and snapped it back once. Again, batterskull got online and I couldnt beat it. They key in the game was when he was at 2 life, I hade Scooze and 2 Pods on board. I pod away my scooze, planning to get into Murderous Redcap range. Unfortunately my only 3 drop left was Fleshbag Maurauder. Then I got the bye, then lost to Jund Depths. I did get Aetherling online in G2 and won the game. G3 he just naturally got into Marit Lage on T3 and I died.
Re: [DTB] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Megadeus
Played last night and went 0-2. Ive lost confidence in the deck tbh. Round 1 vs Esper Blade. He just ran me out of threats. Literally 18 of my 22 creatures were exiled or in the yard. The game went to 5 minutes left in the round and I just conceded. Gave him the match. He STP's twice, snapped it back once, Supreme Verdict twice, and snapped it back once. Again, batterskull got online and I couldnt beat it. They key in the game was when he was at 2 life, I hade Scooze and 2 Pods on board. I pod away my scooze, planning to get into Murderous Redcap range. Unfortunately my only 3 drop left was Fleshbag Maurauder. Then I got the bye, then lost to Jund Depths. I did get Aetherling online in G2 and won the game. G3 he just naturally got into Marit Lage on T3 and I died.
What's your list like? Sounds like in both matchups could've been helped by boarding in Pithing Needles (first for Batterskull, then the second for Thespian's Stage).
Re: [DTB] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Megadeus
Played last night and went 0-2. Ive lost confidence in the deck tbh. Round 1 vs Esper Blade. He just ran me out of threats. Literally 18 of my 22 creatures were exiled or in the yard. The game went to 5 minutes left in the round and I just conceded. Gave him the match. He STP's twice, snapped it back once, Supreme Verdict twice, and snapped it back once. Again, batterskull got online and I couldnt beat it. They key in the game was when he was at 2 life, I hade Scooze and 2 Pods on board. I pod away my scooze, planning to get into Murderous Redcap range. Unfortunately my only 3 drop left was Fleshbag Maurauder. Then I got the bye, then lost to Jund Depths. I did get Aetherling online in G2 and won the game. G3 he just naturally got into Marit Lage on T3 and I died.
Why would you play fleshBAD marauder? Against tnn orzhov pontiff is better.... against show n tell, bone shredder can kill emrakul for the same cmc3.
Also, playing 4 drs gives you control of the gy (snapcaster)
Re: [DTB] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
EpicLevelCommoner
What's your list like? Sounds like in both matchups could've been helped by boarding in Pithing Needles (first for Batterskull, then the second for Thespian's Stage).
The first match up was all one long game. It went forty five minutes. Yeah needle is a card I like a lot. I'm on BUG pod. Orzohv pontiff isn't really an option
