Went 5-4 into nothing at scg providence. Started 4-0 then it went downhill.I don't think I could have controlled how it all went down. My last round opponent was a total dick. Will post list and report later.
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Went 5-4 into nothing at scg providence. Started 4-0 then it went downhill.I don't think I could have controlled how it all went down. My last round opponent was a total dick. Will post list and report later.
Bummer, dude. Sorry to hear it.Quote:
Originally Posted by goblinsplayer
It's fine. I don't mind losing anyways. The worst thing is that my last round opponent was a douche. Had lots of fun though. I'm glad I had gone 4-0 and I will leave it at that. Thanks though.Quote:
Originally Posted by jrw1985
Sorry for being so persitent, but I'd like some reaction those parts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoboLord
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Originally Posted by GoboLord
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoboLord
I'd stop around here. Haven't played against SI, but against Belcher/other combo, I'd stop here. Just topdeck something sweet, and try to kill them by T4.Quote:
Round 2 Christian with Spanish Inquisition
G2: I knew I had to take mulligan to Chalice of the Void OR to Turn 1 Cabal Therapy. SO there we go.
Draw 7: Turn 1 Lackey, no hatecards. Mulligan.
Draw 6: No lands, no Chalice. Bye-bye.
Draw 5: T1 Lackey again, but no hatecards. Mulligan
Attacking is probably right. What do you acomplish by not attacking? Save a Lackey (he'd kill Chieftain either way)? Would that have helped you that much to win the game? Now, what if he doesn't have it? Well, then you put yourself in a very good position to finish the game.Quote:
Round 4Markus with Punishing Maverick
G1: Markus has pretty strong raw with Death Rite Shaman, Mother of Runes, Grove of Burnwillows, Punishing Fire AND Life from the Loam (for recurring Groves). On turn 2 I attacked with Lackey and Chieftain into an untapped Deathrite Shaman, while markus had 2 lands untapped. I knew I could be screwed pretty badly by Punishing Fire (@Chieftain) there, but I think it was correct to take the risk. Well, Markus had Punishing Fire, which pretty much ended the game for me.
I’d like hear some reactions on that situation!
Tested that list a lot yeasterday against Canadian, pre and post sb, with +1Mox, +1 Tarfire, +1Weirdings, +1Kiki, +1 Scrapper, -1Piledriver. SB Had 3 Squads.Quote:
houghts:
* I’m positive that 68/75 cards are just right in the decklist. The spots that I’m sure about are those:
Gotta say, was really disapointed there. Mox make splashing really hard. The mana doesn't work as well as Rg or Rw, because you want to cast multiple B spells during games, and fighting Stifle + Wasteland was really, really tough. And that's unfortunate, because Instigator + Weirdings sound really sweet...
Thanks for the reply. I have a few questions.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScatmanX
(1) What exactly did you bring in/out against Canadian?
(2) What exactly where you dissapointed about?
(3) Fighting through Stifle should not be tough if you are talking about the manafixing. I'd play 0 fetchlands if I had the ful playset of Badlands. What exactly was your issue with the manafixing there?
(4) In don't quite get that sentence: "The mana doesn't work as well as Rg or Rw, because you want to cast multiple B spells during games," Would you like to explain yourself?
°+3 Perish, +3 Squad, +1M<ox, -1 Tuktuk, -1 Kiki,-1 Piledriver -4 Instigator. Now that you've asked, maybe CotV can be really good along with Mox...Quote:
Originally Posted by GoboLord
° Was disapointed about not winning.Guess SB plan was not optimal.
°I wouldn't. At least around here, since there is much more Wasteland than Stifle, and searching for basics the first 2-3 turns can make the game way easier for you. It's not that Stifle doesn't hit anything else from us... (in that sense, Mox Version might be better against Stifle than others. Well, imprinting a B card on Mox was an issue in more than a game too...)
°My W splash is only for combo (no Waste) and Wear/Tear, which you usually only cast 1 per game (same with Angel), then it is ok getting your W source Wasted. You don't need it that much anymore. On the B splash, I had Weirding, Squad AND Perish, so I wanted B fairly the whole game, otherwise could topdeck an uncastable card. Granted, you play of playing 8 duals might help mitigate this problem, but I don't like that concept that much.
Hope it helped clear out my ponters, either we agree this time or not.
Anyhow, how do you SB against Canadian here? It change on the play or on the Draw?
First of all thank you for making things clearer. I think I got you wrong on the mana-fixing thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScatmanX
My boarding plan vs. classic, RUG Canadian Thresh would be
+1 Chrome Mox, + 4 Chalice
-1 Stingscourger, -1 Tuktuk Scrapper, -1 Krenko, -2 Warchief
That would be my plan if I'm on the play.
If I'm on the draw and he plays a list with 8+ green creatures it would be
+3 Perish
-1 Stingscourger, -1 Tuktuk Scrapper, -1 Krenko
I don't think I would be boarding Chalice on the draw. AND I would not bring in Chalice AND Perish at the same time, for goblin-count issues. Plus, I'm not sure about whether to board out Warchief or Instigator in first scenario, probably one of each if I'm not sure. What I'm absolutely sure of is that we want to be the aggro-deck in this MU. And I'm also quite sure that whether you aqre on the play or on the draw matters a lot more in this MU than in most others. This deck (or rather this archetype) has always given me headaches.
SI's chance of killing you on turn 1 if you don't interact is 30-60% depending on whether it's the quicker Pact build or the slower robot build (0/6 walls and Cabal Therapy), against which Lackey is unlikely to connect without assistance.Quote:
I'd stop around here. Haven't played against SI, but against Belcher/other combo, I'd stop here. Just topdeck something sweet, and try to kill them by T4.Quote:
Round 2 Christian with Spanish Inquisition
G2: I knew I had to take mulligan to Chalice of the Void OR to Turn 1 Cabal Therapy. SO there we go.
Draw 7: Turn 1 Lackey, no hatecards. Mulligan.
Draw 6: No lands, no Chalice. Bye-bye.
Draw 5: T1 Lackey again, but no hatecards. Mulligan
If you give them 1-2 more turns without interacting it's very very rough and even our beloved Lackey, SGC, Piledriver draw will likely be too slow. Mulling further for hate was probably the right move, though it reaches a point where you're better off relying on Jedi Mind Tricks:wink:
SI does occasionally self-destruct since it pays life to draw 16 cards. It can also mull to 4 and kill you on T1. As an SI player, I was embarrassed to hear the deck lost vs your mull to 1. The fact that your opponent went for it early on your mull to 1 vs no pressure tells me he was either overconfident, inexperienced, eager to have to match be over, or most likely, just joking around.
Last point, Belcher's usually the 3rd option for SI behind Tendrils and goblin tokens.
@Gobolord
I think I'm in full support of what you did, that is the mulligan into oblivion. in a match up like Belcher or Spanish Inquisition very few cards in our 75 become relevant. I think it is of the utmost of importance to mulligan until you find the relevant cards and run with them.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoboLord
This may be an Appeal to Coincidence, but I too have a memory of Mulling to 1, though against Belcher. He won the Die roll and based on his face he didn't like his keep, I took that to mean a turn 2 or 3 "Belch". I mulled until I found Chalice of the Void, drew a fetch on my first turn, and a mountain on my second, a Piledriver on my third. I won that game.
As for your attack into his Deathrite Shaman so long as you didn't read him having it I support this line. Be aggressive, and jam that attack. If he doesn't have it he is in a worse position than before. If he has it then you are losing Chieftain to burn anyway. Lackey is irrelevant at this point in the game. I'm not saying he can't work, just didn't appear to have much chance to continue being relevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoboLord
Your missing main board slots for me would look a bit like the following for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoboLord
1 Fetch
1 Tarfire
2 Rakdos Charm
It may be simply because I love Rakdos Charm or simply because I love Shatter, there is something about main board grave and artifact hate that I love. I also enjoy the option of turn 2 hitting with Lackey, at End of Turn if need be.
Whenever I don't know what I want my spare sideboard slots to be I either add Pithing Needle or [card]Mindbreak Trap[/card]. I'm never sad to see either in my board. It is just more insurance against the unknown and combo, the only two things to fear. If you do try out the Rakdos Charms be sure to run a Single Tuktuk scrapper sideboard.
[edit]Typos[/edit]
Still don't think going to 1 is the right call. How many turns does a tipica mull to 1 takes to kill our opponent. What if we don't draw lands? What if we don't draw Lackey/Vial/Piledriver? We'd wait until we draw 3 lands to make our first attack? How many cards has the opponent drawn by then?Quote:
Originally Posted by Olaf Forkbeard
Stopping at a 5 card hand with a 4 turn clock is imo better than going to 1 and hoping to kill your opponent T9, if lucky. That's 5+ live draws you give him, so even if he faces disruption, he'd have way more time to build up again.
Another thing is that you also get to draw cards on your mull to 5. So get some topdeck skils!
All in all, Sockosensei was right. The opponent must've missplayed here. I too have mulliganed to 4 and beaten Belcher with Mindbreak Trap. The deal is that he was under no pressure what-so-ever, so he could've easily played 2 spells per turn, and Belched me on his T3. Guess I'm glad there are so many bad combo players out there afterall.
Here is the decklist I am working on and testing for a local 1k and SCG Oakland with the intention of playing it at the SCG Invitational in Las Vegas:
1 Drops
4 Goblin Lackey
4 AEther Vial
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Drops
1 Goblin Piledriver
1 Stingscourger
1 Mogg War Marshal
3 Warren Instigator
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Gempalm Incinerator
3 Drops
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Chieftain
1 Blood Moon
4 Drops
2 Tuktuk Scrapper
4 Goblin Ringleader
5 Drops
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
Land
5 Mountain
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
2 Rishadan Port
2 Plateau
1 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
Side Board
SB: 1 Pyrokinesis
SB: 1 Sudden Demise
SB: 1 Pyroblast (Pending, Could be anything)
SB: 3 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 1 Blood Moon
SB: 1 Goblin Sharpshooter
SB: 1 Raging River
SB: 2 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 1 Goblin Settler
SB: 1 Anarchy
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
I would appreciate any feedbeck on the list. Thanks
Hey,Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblueduck
don't have much to say about the list. Looks weird too me playing Thalia + Instigator, but might be good. I'd suggest only Tarfire over Bolt, and dropping Blood Moons, since they haven't really been playing well (at leats for me)
Raging River is a card that stands out on the list. Someone commented on it here a while back, but never got to my attention. Re-reading it tough, it sounds really cool. If the opponent has only 1 dude out, he would not be able to block, right? That sounds cool. Would probably like to test it as a 2-3 of. Probably replacing Blood Moons?
Tell us how it goes.
I wouldn't doubt it, but I did offer up valid reasons for its inclusion (and remember that I've also adjusted many of the slots to mold to its being in the deck, so it's not just the Mirror Entity that should be discussed.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Avatara
First of all: you call "adjusting slots"; I would call it a "regular" goblin decklist. While I can see that your reson to run cards as Tuktuk Scrapper in the MD is Mirror Entity, it is in fact quite common to have Tuktuk Scrapper in the MD for other reasons. So, to me it does not seem like your adjustments are "customized" to Mirror Entity.Quote:
Originally Posted by superspaceshooter
Second, even if you ran decklist that was highly customized to take 100% advantage of MEntitiy, I still think that the card doesn't do enough for the deck, for several reasons. To make good use of it you should be dumping 3+ mana into it's activated ability and that is something you usually won't do more than once a game. If you like the pumping thing I'd suggest to run more Goblin Chieftains (or at least compare MEntity to Chieftain whenever you draw/tutor it during your testing sessions to see which card you like more).
That's true. I actually forgot to include Chieftain in my list, as I was building it on the fly rather than tuning it for several days like I usually do.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoboLord
It is a typically Goblin list, but again, there are other slots that I've altered because of Mirror Entity's presence, such as 4 Mogg-War Marshal and the 24th land.
I haven't tested this, just was offering it up for others to try. :)
I have to ask about this - in what matchaps you would like to side in goblin settler?Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblueduck
IRT: On the early game, keeping Ringleaders in hand until one naturally draws more lands:
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoblinSettler
Okay, that makes sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScatmanX
I need to think better about these sort of things before posting my first thoughts about them, :laugh: .
Quick tourney report! Went 0-2 drop at my LGS big monthly. I was playing MonoRed Gobbos and could not have been less prepared for the field. I was gunning for midrange and the players were all packing combo.
The List
4 Vial
4 Lackey
1 Stingscourger
2 piledriver
3 MWM
2 Tarfire
3 Gempalm
2 Tuktuk Scrapper
4 Warchief
3 Chieftain
4 Matron
4 Ringleader
2 Krenko
2 Chrome Mox
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
4 Cavern of souls
8 Mountain
SB
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Mindbreak Trap
3 Relic of rogenitus
1 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Sudden Demise
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
2 Blood Moon
Round 1 Big Red
G1 I lose the roll. He leads with Mountain, go. I have Vial and Lackey in hand, so I lead with Vial since I read him as being on Burn and figure I'll get further with T1 Vial then Lackey. Then he gets T2 Sneak Attack. Ah. T2 I tick up vial and play a 2nd land. T3 he kills me. G2 I sided in Chalice and MbT. I lead with Lackey and connected into Warchief and won shortly thereafter. G3 he goes T1 Crystal Veins, Lotus Petal > Seething Song > Sneak Attack + SSG >> Grisselbrand + Worldspine Wurm, gg. I haven't been t1'd in a long while, and never by a deck that wasn't killing with Storm. Wasn't even upset about that one.
R2 Painter Servant
G1 Again, I lose the roll. Again, my opponent leads with Mountain, go. huh. I have Lackey, Lackey, Matron, Matron, Gempalm, Cavern, and Chrome Mox. I draw a Port. I cast Lackey off Cavern, then decide if I'm up against Burn then having a 2nd Lackey will be of benefit T1. So I play the Mox, remove a Matron, then cast the 2nd Lackey. He can't handle all that Lackey pressure and loses shortly thereafter. G2 and G3 he just combos me out with Painter + Grindstone. I have no needles nor quick artifact removal to deal with it all. Blech.
Anywho, there were a bunch of combo decks at the LGS today. I really should have been rocking some Thalias and a Rw list. Wear // Tear would have been excellent. Karakas would have done work. I could have had a chance under those circumstances. Next time, I guess.
Rough. Anyways, if everyone was packing combo, the white splash would not have made too much of a difference. It's still a bad matchup. The combo decks you played do not really mind Thalia or anything in the white splash. Although wear//tear would have been good against painter.