[Deck] GW/x Maverick

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stuhl

How did you grow him so fast? Ok, getting the clues is a quick process as you play a land/fetch land every turn. But for growing him 9/8 you have to pop 6 clues = 12 mana. In my eyes that's a rather slow process and not very impressive as he anyways dies to every removal spell. I mean, we want do play stuff in our turn, don't we? So, if you play something on your turn, you may have 1-2 mana left open. That's about 1 clue every turn. Of course, in a late game scenario you can pop more clues but in my eyes, there is better stuff that does not die to a Lightning Bolt for late game applications. In a way we want to close the game and not durdle around with card and clues, so stuff like Sigarda/DD combo seems to have more impact on games as Tracker.

---

This was in the mid game against nic fit so they had already ramped me with some basics. I had pithing needle on deed and gaea's cradle out with a few creatures. The turn I dropped tracker my hand didn't have anything relevant so I played a fetch and popped 2 clues. This grew tracker and drew me something like an abrupt decay and another fetch. So the next turn I drew, played the fetch and drew another 2 cards. I believe at that point I drew a Garruk and dropped him and I was able to swing with tracker which was now bigger than his rhino. The next turn I had another fetch so I drew 2 cards again and that's when he was 9/8. Yea if he had the swords or path he would have died but the same can be said about Knight of the Reliquary and that is one of the best cards in our deck.

Him and I were both in a top deck war and Tracker even over 2 turns of not being answered drew me 4 cards. Yes that is spending 4 mana each turn. But when the cards you are drawing are lands or aren't relevant and you need to go further to dig for something better I rather have sunk my mana into the clues and grow my creature.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Luthiereisfun

This was in the mid game against nic fit so they had already ramped me with some basics. I had pithing needle on deed and gaea's cradle out with a few creatures. The turn I dropped tracker my hand didn't have anything relevant so I played a fetch and popped 2 clues. This grew tracker and drew me something like an abrupt decay and another fetch. So the next turn I drew, played the fetch and drew another 2 cards. I believe at that point I drew a Garruk and dropped him and I was able to swing with tracker which was now bigger than his rhino. The next turn I had another fetch so I drew 2 cards again and that's when he was 9/8. Yea if he had the swords or path he would have died but the same can be said about Knight of the Reliquary and that is one of the best cards in our deck.

Him and I were both in a top deck war and Tracker even over 2 turns of not being answered drew me 4 cards. Yes that is spending 4 mana each turn. But when the cards you are drawing are lands or aren't relevant and you need to go further to dig for something better I rather have sunk my mana into the clues and grow my creature.

---

I've been quite pleased with tracker lately. He's been really solid, especially when you have cradle. Plenty of extra mana to use.

I've been playing a red version of maverick and have had middling amounts of success. Any worth it green Sun targets? The best side board options are probably like Red Blasts, Elextrickery, and Ancient Grudge, but I sometimes find myself struggling against other fair decks. Best way to fight Elves too? I was thinking like Hushwing Griff maybe. Artifacts and Enchantments are pretty vulnerable and Gryff shuts off their Visionary, rec sage, and Craterhoof

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Megadeus

I've been quite pleased with tracker lately. He's been really solid, especially when you have cradle. Plenty of extra mana to use.

I've been playing a red version of maverick and have had middling amounts of success. Any worth it green Sun targets? The best side board options are probably like Red Blasts, Elextrickery, and Ancient Grudge, but I sometimes find myself struggling against other fair decks. Best way to fight Elves too? I was thinking like Hushwing Griff maybe. Artifacts and Enchantments are pretty vulnerable and Gryff shuts off their Visionary, rec sage, and Craterhoof

---

I've been playing Abzan Deathblade for a while and just thought about Tireless Tracker. Maverick seems like a better shell for him so I'm glad to see that it's being tested. Do you mind sharing your list?

My list right now isn't greatly tuned. Probably should be punishing but:

4 Noble Hierarch
3 Qasali Pridemage
4 Mother of Runes
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Granger Guildmage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Titania, Priestess of Argoth/Sigarda, Host of Herons/Huntnaster of the Fells

4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawas Jitte
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
4 Green Sun's Zenith

1 Ajani Vengeant/Xenagos, The Reveler

4 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Savannah
2 Taiga
1 Plateau
4 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Rouges Passage
2 Forest
1 Plains

SB:
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Pyroblast
2 Banishing Light
2 Vryns Wingmare
2 Kor Firewalker
1 Life From the Loam
1 Pithing Needle
2 Electrickery
1 Hunt master of the Fells

SB varies night to night. Main is my slight over reaction to my over reaction to beat combo which cost me a match or two over the weekend.

Here's a quick tournament report from a list I've been running and have had success from based off of Thunderpork's.

Also I will preface this by saying I have played tons of Maverick lists running a more stock or "normal" shell so already know that playing new Gideon and not a full playset of Mother of Runes or Thalia seems like blasphemy.

List:

Creatures
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Mother of Runes
1 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Tireless Tracker
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 The Gitrog Monster

Instant/Sorcery
4 Green Sun Zenith
3 Swords To Plowshares
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Life From the Loam

Enchantment
2 Sylvan Library

Planeswalkers
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar

Lands (22)
4 windswept heath
3 verdant catacombs
2 savannah
2 bayou
1 scrubland
2 forest
2 plains
3 wasteland
1 horizon canopy
1 karakas
1 gaea's cradle

Sideboard
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Thoughtseize
1 Choke
1 Armageddon
1 Pithing Needle
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Tormods Crypt

Report:

Round 1 vs Tezzerator (2-0)
G1: I am able to ramp into a turn 2 Knight of The Reliquary. Wasteland, Abrupt Decay and naturally drawing into a Gaddock Teeg is enough disruption to keep him from doing anything big while I beat with Knight and take it home.

G2: He plays chalices of the voids on 1 and 2 after I play a turn 1 Deathrite Shaman. Deathrite Shaman gives me the turn 2 Knight of The Reliquary followed up by turn 3 Gideon. Gideon and Knight are able to start smashing in for the win.

Round 2 vs Reanimator (2-0)
G1: I am lucky and the hand I kept was Dearthrite with Thalia backup. He doesn't have a 'nut' hand so my creatures can begin to clock him while he tries to deal with Deathrite.

G2: I have a turn 1 Tormods crypt and he doesn't have the nuts again. The Crypt and 2 swords to plowshares are enough throughout the game for me to eventually find Garruk and clock him before he can set up another re-animation spell.

Round 3 vs. Death and Taxes (2-0)
G1: We're both setting up our board states and trading 1 for 1. He grows a board with Serra Avenger, Mother of Runes, and Mirran Crusader among other things and he is too ahead on life to try and race. I had some creatures that at that point were outmatched and a sylvan library. With Library I am able to dig and find the Toxic Deluge and pay 3 life bringing me from 4 to 1. At that point I had a Knight that he swords. I draw more Knights and Tireless Tracker and he draws smaller creatures. At this point I am able to beat in with pretty big creatures and race him for the win.

G2:This match was very grindy. I am able to flip a garruk relentless on turn 3 by fighting his turn 2 stoneforge mystic. Garruk flips which had me feeling safe until he dropped mirran crusader and jitte. On my turn I use garruk to tutor for qasali pridemage and blow up jitte. Mirran Crusader begins to be trouble until I find spot removal for it. This game was similar to Game 1 where he is able to bring me down to 2 life but at that point I have already been able to swing it around with our bigger threats.

Round 4 vs U/R Delver (2-1)
G1: I mull to 5 and don't really have any gas. He steamrolls me with swiftspear and stormchaser.

G2:This game is grindy and he brings me down to 2 life. An active Deathrite with Scryb is able to bring me back to 6 life. I cast Gitrog which is able to draw me cards and bring in the beats/race for the win.

G3: He has a land light hand and I am able to resolve a Thalia with wasteland backup. Thalia and a Qasali Pridemage are able to bring in beats while he struggle to find a second land.

All in all I am having a lot of fun with this deck. The Death and Taxes player told me that he wasn't expecting the Toxic Deluge and I don't think many people do which is nice. I find that most people don't have a problem clogging up game 1 against us so it catches people on surprise. I also like it as a "catch up" card where if a deck gets a nut start on the draw and we can't keep up, it's a way for us to reset the game and start to take over with our bigger threats.

I use to just run a basic forest and a basic plains but have upped both by 2. Mana dorks are a great way to fight through other loam/wasteland, price of progress and blood moon effects (all things that I have struggled against with this deck) but they just aren't as stable for me as the basics have been. With Knight finding wasteland never felt like a problem and I never drew a basic wishing it was Wasteland. With life from the loam we can also keep replaying wastelands, so I am also not worried about not having enough.

Garruk is a planeswalker that seems to have earned a spot in Maverick if you want to play a planeswalker and Gideon acts as the "second garruk that I can play if I have garruk on the battlefield." I think making free 2/2's and being able to survive sweepers is already great when we're trying to grind out other decks. His +1 is also great against decks that don't have swords and the -4 is something I'll take over an ultimate that I would probably rarely cast anyway.

Gitrog Monster and Tireless Tracker have been great for me. They both come down at different stages of the game, they both draw me cards and they both have/get big bodies that can attack for big chunks of life. The CA they provide has been really good for me too and I have never had that "Why did I think it was ever a good idea to play this card!" moment (A moment I have had many times before while trying out/testing new/fringe cards).


I am really happy with where the list is at but I would love to hear others thoughts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Luthiereisfun

Here's a quick tournament report from a list I've been running and have had success from based off of Thunderpork's.

Also I will preface this by saying I have played tons of Maverick lists running a more stock or "normal" shell so already know that playing new Gideon and not a full playset of Mother of Runes or Thalia seems like blasphemy.

List:

Creatures
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Mother of Runes
1 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Tireless Tracker
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 The Gitrog Monster

Instant/Sorcery
4 Green Sun Zenith
3 Swords To Plowshares
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Life From the Loam

Enchantment
2 Sylvan Library

Planeswalkers
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar

Lands (22)
4 windswept heath
3 verdant catacombs
2 savannah
2 bayou
1 scrubland
2 forest
2 plains
3 wasteland
1 horizon canopy
1 karakas
1 gaea's cradle

Sideboard
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Thoughtseize
1 Choke
1 Armageddon
1 Pithing Needle
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Tormods Crypt

---

Well, I'm in general more a fan of the "traditional" lists, playing 4 MoR and 4 Wastelands. Playing 3 Thalia is legit, though, as these days more decks aren't that impressed by her. I played Garruk recently and was not super impressed. Now I play just a Decay in his spot as in most situations I wished he was just a blank removal spell.

Why are you playing 3 Canonists in your SB? Are you that fearful of combo decks? Imo Maverick has a "super" combo MU anyways (exluding fringe T0/T1 combo decks), playing Thalia and Teeg MB. I'd rather go -1 Canonist, +1 Thoughtseize as it has more applications.

The Toxic Deluge is super strange. I tend to lose against this card frequently. It kills everything, except KotR. I play Zealous persecution in my SB against Elves/DnT and stuff. There aren't that many swarm decks these days and we anyway swarm the board, too.

Well, Tracker and Gitrog are awesome creatures, but I'm still not on the train. The thing about Gitrog is, that he has no trample or whatsoever and thus does not help to win the game in stalled situations but rather gain lots of cards. Yet, I think in a creature heavy deck, drawing lots of cards isn't as strong as it is in a deck with access to blue and countermagic. In the Tracker spot I play a Courser of Kruphix which has somehow similar applications without paying 2 mana each turn. The life gain sometimes is relevant and with Mirri's Guile/Library he goes nuts.

Again, I'm really confident with DD combo, again. It feels good to have a "GG button". It's all about when going for it and when not. But at least playing one of the two lands makes your opponent shiver.

Question about the Shardless BUG matchup:

If you're running 2 Stoneforge Mystics and 2 Equips (lets say Jitte and Sophie), does it make sense to cut Mystics post-board? Tutoring Equips just seems to turn on discard early in the game, and making them uncounterable isn't relevant post-board. Ideally I want the Equips to roll of the top of my library in the mid to late game when I have 4-5 mana available. Both are good in the matchup, but neither seems like such a linchpin that I want "more copies" in the form of SFM, considering the games often go long enough that naturally drawing them is reasonable. I'm also usually bringing in some creatures like the Rec. Sage and the 2nd Ooze, so the number of bodies I have to carry equipment is roughly the same.

Thoughts?

I've been putting some thought and playing into my list from last autumn during the last month, and I want to ventilate a couple of ideas. Also commenting on other discussions in this thread.

On the subject of Dark Depths and the 5 CMC slot, I like Titania a lot in Maverick. Just like Dark Depths she lets you put 20-ish power onto the board during the same turn, potentially. But unlike Depths she is not a dead draw by herself, a topdecked Titania is usually very powerful. I also like being able to go t1 Deathrite, t2 Kotr, t3 fetch Cradle and GSZ for Titania. There is also the occasional Karakas + Cradle into Wasteland + 5/3 every turn-lock. Titania is like a Depths + Stage combo in one slot with built in card advantage. And she's really good at producing 5/3 blockers for Eldrazi creatures (not that I can claim to have played the matchup extensivelly). I'm not convinced the Depths Stage combo is needed currently, I'd rather focus on spending extra slots on cards that are good vs Miracles right now.

In an attempt to improve the Miracles matchup, being the most played deck locally, I've tried (also based on Thunderporks suggestions) playing 2 Garruks and in addition to that 2 Sylvans in the main and an Elspeth and Bitterblossom in the sideboard. My current idea/approach is to keep playing 2 Sylvans in the main deck, they are good vs anything, and improve the Miracles matchup by playing 2 maindeck Bitterblossoms. To make up for the life loss I'll play 2 Umezawa's Jitte; I like Sword of L&S but it is often a bit dull in practice while Jitte is usually a game winning card. I think playing 2 Jitte in the main deck will help in some tough matchups (Grixis Delver, Eldrazi) and also play well with the potential life loss from 2 Sylvan, 2 Bitterblossom. Whether the 2 Bitterblossoms will do enough for the Miracles matchup to compensate for the loss of 1 Sword of L&S remains to be seen. Some nice and obvious interactions from this duo of cards that I want to mention are equipping Jitte and attacking with a Faerie Rogue token and after combat equipping it on the the just produced token. Also Bitterblossoms producing chump blockers helps protect Garruk (I'm always worried about playing planeswalkers without solid flying defenses). I could see an Ensnaring Bridge in the Enlightened Tutor sideboard with the same purpose as the Moat in Gorzgen's list from last page, with Bridge allowing attacks from flying Faerie Rogue tokens from Bitterblossom or massive buildup of tokens from Garruk/Elspeth.

I've been playing 3 Mothers and 3 Thalia for more than a year now, and whenever I try to improve the midrange matchups I pull out another Mother. So I'm currently on this build.

I've been playing 3-1 in a couple of local weekly tournaments and 2-2 in one (drawing a total of 5 lands over 2 games is bad, and it was even a game vs Miracles), also top 8ed a local 30-40-ish tournament with this list going 4-2 in the swiss rounds with losses being 1-2 to Belcher and Storm, losing in the semifinals against Miracles (in a probably close to 2 hour game where he was down to 1 life in the deciding game) even with all the Miracles tech I was playing: 2 maindecked Sylvan Library, 3 Abrupt Decay, 2 Garruk Relentless and sideboarded 1 Bitterblossom, 1 Elspeth Knight Errant, 2 Choke.

Main deck: 61 cards
Equipments and white creatures:
2 Mother of Runes
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Sword of Fire & Ice
2 Umezawa's Jitte

Green creature-package:
4 GSZ
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Tireless Tracker
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth

Removal:
3 Swords to Plowshares:
3 Abrupt Decay

Other:
2 Sylvan Library
1 Garruk Relentless
2 Bitterblossom

Lands:
1 Karakas
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Gaea's Cradle
4 Wasteland
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Savannah
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Forest
1 Plains

SB (sorted with the slots I'm less convinced of at the top of the list):
1 Trinisphere (mostly because of the synergy with the two Chokes)
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Elspeth, Knight Errant
1 Cataclysm (Kills Jaces, good synergy with KotR and Titania and also with Thalia vs combo decks)
1 Pithing Needle
1 Scavenging Ooze (usually playing in the maindeck but making some unconventional changes just to get more Miracles relevant cards in the maindeck)
2 Choke
1 Aura Shards [a single card taking out dozens of cards vs some popular decks such as Shardless, Food Chain, Death & Taxes and anything with Stoneforge Mystic in it; then there are fringe matchups where it's even better - Stax-anything, Enchantress, Tezzeret, MUD]
1 Engineered Plague
1 Enlightened Tutor (changing the second Canonist for a tutor makes the rest of the sideboard better)
1 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Thoughtseize

I'm toying with the idea of adding a Lightning Greaves to the sideboard. Having KotR's hasting in for damage seems really strong vs Planeswalkers and for speeding up the clock (in other matchups just Wasting the opponent when Knight comes down.). I think it's a cheap way, and tutorable with the Mystics, to put a lot of pressure on Miracles. It puts extra pressure on Miracles to find Terminus, and with the haste you may not need more than one creature in play at the time. A hexproof Deathrite with haste can be very good in some matchups, as can hexproof Ooze be. Other nice features are virtually playing Deathrites for free and having produced tokens from Garruk/Bitterblossom attack with haste. I could see myself trying a Lightning Greaves over one of the Mothers in the current list.

Tracker has continously drawn me a lot of cards. I really like him vs Miracles where you force them into a 3 for 1 trade, or better. But I need more testing to say for sure.

Also I keep changing Gaddock and Ooze between maindeck and sideboard. Gaddock is mostly valuable for the Storm matchup, I feel, and Ooze is valuable in basically every matchup (cheap, lifegaining large monster).

All comments welcome!

@Seraphix:
I would probably leave the Mystics in and try to not play them until I have Cradle in play [or at worst at least play the equipment during the same turn]. Leaving Mystic out seems bad since the equipments are really valuable in this matchup

I wanted to give some input on my experience thus far with Tireless Tracker and Dark Depths as this has been a big chat so far the past two pages.

Tireless Tracker

The best part of Tireless Tracker is that you can zenith for him cheaply. Many games I've won because I'd zenith for a tracker, play a fetchland and keep it untapped in cast he casts a removal spell. Oftentimes, even if they kill it at end of turn, you've already gotten a 3-1 trade with the 1:1 trade with a +2 potential cards on top of it. The few times I got to grow it was just gravy.

I had played Courser of Kruphix prior to Tireless Tracker as well. The main gain with Courser was that it had four toughness and life gain. I would say that they both "drew" about the same number of cards usually (1-2 before dying) with Tracker dying a lot more easily than Courser while also being slower than Courser. I've really liked the side use of Tracker as a maindeck "fatty" in case of grave hate.

Dark Depths

The best part of Dark Depths combo is that Thespian Stage is super powerful the more you play with it. I've locked out Eldrazi with double Maze of Ith while stabilizing, I've maintained my clock against Miracles by copying a Dryad Arbor that they were plowing, I've even copied a Horizon Canopy at eot turn, sacced my original canopy, then sacced my canopy copy in my main phase to get an extra draw step when flooding. The only real dead card is Dark Depths, which isn't even that dead with a Tireless Tracker in play. The biggest boon you get with Dark Depths is that, unlike Cradle, it wins you games you should have lost. The number of games I've won on an empty board because I naturally top deck the second combo piece is staggering. Cradle is much more powerful than the Dark Depths combo if you still have a full board, while Dark Depths is much better when you only have a Knight of the Reliquary out. I've won many matchups just resolving a Knight of the Reliquary, keeping it back for blocking for two turns as I set up the combo, and win with only 1 creature in play, no cards in hand, and facing next turn lethal.

So the real question you have to ask is not about which card is better, the real question you should have is *why* are you playing the trump card in that slot at all? What game states are you regularly pushed into/play into? What trump card best maximizes your chance to win assuming your habits/opponents regularly puts you in the types of positions you normally end up in?

As an example: I like how Dark Depths Combo allows Knight to be lethal even with a turn two rest in peace. I like that the Dark Depths combo does not need any creatures in play for you to kill people with it. This is because my metagame has lots of grave hate and lots of toxic deluges/sweepers. I don't like that wasteland stops the combo dead. I don't like that Karakas stops the combo dead. And I don't like how dead Dark Depths is by itself--and no, the one time I've made a 20/20 manually does not count as "its not always dead" because that was a fluke.

What board states does your deck get into? What helps those board states? Does your deck usually need help when it gets to those board states? It is incorrect to assume that one is either better or worse that the other.

Newer maverick player here. I was very intrigued by the punishing fire version. So what's the meta where you want to play finishing fire over the more traditional GWb versions of the deck? Also is there a list where you would play Thalia with punishing fire or is that too greedy?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TMagpie

...The main gain with Courser was that it had four toughness and life gain....

---

Well, you forgot another very important issue: The "Lantern" effect. Playing with your top card revealed gives you a lot of library manipulation with a KotR/fetch lands. You can shuffle away cards you definitely don't need which is huge in a creature deck in which you just draw random cards usually.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TMagpie

So the real question you have to ask is not about which card is better, the real question you should have is *why* are you playing the trump card in that slot at all? What game states are you regularly pushed into/play into? What trump card best maximizes your chance to win assuming your habits/opponents regularly puts you in the types of positions you normally end up in?

---

Thant's correct. I, personally, often find myself in stalled board states in which the board is crowded on the ground and no attacks are worth it on either side. That happens regularly against Merfolk, Elves, Eldrazi, Nic Fit. These are also the MUs in which Scryb Ranger is at its best with an equipment in the air. Playing against TNN also is not funny, except you can win one turn earlier with a 20/20 flying token. It's all about evasion.

Of course, DD is a dead card on its own, but... There will always be cards like this. You can not build a tool box deck without accepting some "dead draws". It's like the Dryad Arbor in your opening hand problem. You don't want this, but you have to accept it (and, concerning one offs, it's unlikely of course). So, I'm not scared of a dead top deck if it happens 1 time in 500 games. In general, I don't often get into classic top deck games these days. And, if you just land DD in the middle of the game, your opponents are always scared that you could just topdeck the other part. Whenever I play DD from my hand without even being close to assemble the combo it gets Wastelanded if possible. In a lot of cases this results in a tempo advantage for me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rek315

Newer maverick player here. I was very intrigued by the punishing fire version. So what's the meta where you want to play finishing fire over the more traditional GWb versions of the deck? Also is there a list where you would play Thalia with punishing fire or is that too greedy?

---

Well, in a PF list you definitely can not play Thalia, I'd say. It is very clunky. That's also the reason why I don't like PF versions. For me Thalia is somewhat a core of a Maverick deck. PF lists are definitely weaker against combo decks but stronger against stuff like elves. I don't know how it is with Delver decks, probably it's somewhat even but PFire is definitely pretty useless against Miracles, the deck you want/need to beat :P. Here Thalia shines even if it's just in the early game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stuhl

...


Well, in a PF list you definitely can not play Thalia, I'd say. It is very clunky. That's also the reason why I don't like PF versions. For me Thalia is somewhat a core of a Maverick deck. PF lists are definitely weaker against combo decks but stronger against stuff like elves. I don't know how it is with Delver decks, probably it's somewhat even but PFire is definitely pretty useless against Miracles, the deck you want/need to beat :P. Here Thalia shines even if it's just in the early game.

---

You can still play Thalia in a list with Punishing Fire. There are very few matchups where you want both to be in your deck post-board. You just choose which one to play main and switch it out for the other in the appropriate matchups.

I think Punishing Fire is far from useless against Miracles. It provides an angle of attack that's harder for them to interact with than our typical gameplan, which plays right into Plow-Snap-Plow and Terminus. It pressures Jace, their life total, and kills all their creatures. I've won countless games against Miracles after having my board decimated by doing the last few points of damage with Fire. Its very bad against Counter-Top floating a 2, but even then can be useful as a test spell to try and resolve something through the lock.

Yes, as a Jund/Aggro Loam/Jund Depths player, Punishing Fire is far from dead in the Miracles matchup. It's a persistent answer to Jace and can imitate a win condition. It can also machine gun down Angel tokens, and of course acts as a pressure to Mentor.

I mostly keep it in for Jace.

I'm getting ready for the EE4 tournament this Saturday. Has anyone tried running Sylvan Safekeeper MB? It seems really really nuts with the pairing of Titania. It also the GSZ version of MoM. I also don't see Dark Confidant, is there a reason why that is case?
.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thunderknight

I'm getting ready for the EE4 tournament this Saturday. Has anyone tried running Sylvan Safekeeper MB? It seems really really nuts with the pairing of Titania. It also the GSZ version of MoM. I also don't see Dark Confidant, is there a reason why that is case?
.

---

Safekeeper is excellent, I've always enjoyed him.

Confidant just generally isn't needed, and you don't have the slots.

-Matt

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thunderknight

I'm getting ready for the EE4 tournament this Saturday. Has anyone tried running Sylvan Safekeeper MB? It seems really really nuts with the pairing of Titania. It also the GSZ version of MoM. I also don't see Dark Confidant, is there a reason why that is case?
.

---

Sylvan Safekeeper main deck is really strong, u can win many matchups, vs ANT with gaddock or thalia in play, vs miracle with gaddock, vs burn is istant win. good vs D&T since it has only 4 removal
its really a wonderfull piece to zenith for (u can also win vs combo by sacrificing all lands and attacking with KoR, easy 10 damage turn




Dark Confidant is a strong card but : 1- u need always to play it early game and not always u have black mana early game in maverick, first 2 lands maybe wastes-karakas-cradle-forest-plain and not fetches
2- a bad card to draw mid game.

I played with them into maverick, they are really good vs miracle/d&t/control but bad vs other decks, better play more green creatures

This is my deck that I've came up with. I'll most likely run this deck at EE4. I would appericate the feedback

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Thalia, Guardian of Tharben
3 Mother of Rune
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Qasli Pridemage
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Titania, Protector of Agroth
1 Sylvan Safekeeper

4 GSZ
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Abrupt Decays
1 Life from the Loam

1 Garruk Rentless
1 Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sylvan Library

4 Windswepth Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wastelands
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Karakas
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Dryad Abor

SB:
3 Thoughtseize
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Qasli Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Choke
1 Armageddon
1 Pithing Needle
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Engineering Plaque
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Surgical Extraction
1 (insert flex spot here)

My flex spots are the following cards depending on the size of the event, the location of the event, and what's the field looking like.

Sylvan Library (Miracles)
Bojika Bog (dredge)
Sigarda, Host of herons (Shardless)
Tesbo's Web (Lands)
Glissa, The Traitor (Eldarzi)

Hi friend. For E.E you want to be prepared for miracles and lands.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mapson

Hi friend. For E.E you want to be prepared for miracles and lands.

---

I'm leaning towards that to be the case. Maverick has a solid game plan with Miracles (soft lock with Gaddock teeg + MoM or Keeper), keep them off Jace. But my problem is trying to not over-extend the board state. having a Knight or Tireless Tracker will most of the time games.

Oh I forgot to add to the flexspot Hallowed Moonlight (for Storm, Miracles, Lands, DnT, SnS, SnT, Eleves, etc).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thunderknight

I'm leaning towards that to be the case. Maverick has a solid game plan with Miracles (soft lock with Gaddock teeg + MoM or Keeper), keep them off Jace. But my problem is trying to not over-extend the board state. having a Knight or Tireless Tracker will most of the time games.

Oh I forgot to add to the flexspot Hallowed Moonlight (for Storm, Miracles, Lands, DnT, SnS, SnT, Eleves, etc).

---

I feel like Id always want 4 Momma. I may personally hedge on 3/2 DRS/Noble to ensure acceleration against the other DRS deck (dont want to get greased too often).

Id personally play 2 sylvans main and put the garruk in the board.

My board would likely look like :

2 Needle
1 Bog
2 ZP
3 Thoughtseize
1 Teeg
2 Canonist
1 Garruk Relentless
2 Armageddon
1 Sigarda