[Deck] 12 Post

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Originally Posted by k_omega

A friend of mine plays BUG post on MTGO and seems to like it. I don't know his list, but I'd be interested in seeing yours.

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I'm glad to hear that BUG post is still alive and kicking.

Here is my list that I call villainous post:

28 lands
4 cloudpost
4 glimmerpost
4 vesuva
1 thespian's stage
1 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
1 karakas
2 tropical island
1 bayou
1 forest
1 island
1 tabernacle
1 bojuka bog
1 maze
1 glacial chasm
1 eye of ugin
3 fetches

32 spells
4 crop rotation
4 force of will
4 villainous wealth
3 eldrazi (player's choice)
1 leovold
1 candelabra
4 brainstorm
4 ponder
2 pithing needle (debating having a 1/1 split with spyglass)
2 exploration (flex slots)
2 spell pierce
1 walking ballista

Sideboard
1 notion thief
1 massacre
2 krosan grip
4 assassin's trophy
1 flusterstorm
1 swamp
2 courser of kruphix
3 stifle

I believe using the counters and controls will enable us to answer combo and other archetypes more easily while building to our late game finisher and villainous wealth can be used as Force fodder while we build up.

This is a first draft of an idea to see if it is doable.

It's not clear to me how this is supposed to work. It seems extraordinarily optimistic to me to think you will ever be able to cast UBG spells in a deck that ideally wants to play entirely colourless-producing lands, and honestly I'm not sure I can imagine when Villainous Wealth is going to be better than just playing your own cards. If you are ever able to cast VW with a reasonable X value, you could just be casting Primeval Titan/Ugin/Emrakul/etc. It's certainly a cool and fun card but it seems awful in 12post to me.

@k_omega:

I ran a couple of leagues with your list, both 3-2. I really, really like it (although I still haven’t gotten the chance to use From Beyond yet). I absolutely love the 1-of TKS in the board.

I was a bit skeptical about Great Distortion over Butcher of Truth, but he’s exceeding my expectations. I do really miss the reshuffle trigger though; not being able to tutor for him again when he gets countered is sad. Still, he definitely pulls his weight.

I’m not 100% on Promised End. I’ll play with her some more, but she’s been underwhelming in most of the matches where I’ve cast her.

I’m only running 2x Surgicals so it’s only 74 of your 75. I have them in paper, but I’m not ready to spend $30 for one online yet, so I’m trying to come up with an alternative. I ran a Spatial Contortion in its place for the leagues, but it doesn’t seem great in the meta right now. I’m torn between: 3rd Ratchet Bomb, 2nd TKS, Forcefield, Oblivion Stone, 4th Grip, or Sylvan Library. Thoughts?


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Originally Posted by TheBoozeCube

@k_omega:

I ran a couple of leagues with your list, both 3-2. I really, really like it (although I still haven’t gotten the chance to use From Beyond yet). I absolutely love the 1-of TKS in the board.

I was a bit skeptical about Great Distortion over Butcher of Truth, but he’s exceeding my expectations. I do really miss the reshuffle trigger though; not being able to tutor for him again when he gets countered is sad. Still, he definitely pulls his weight.

I’m not 100% on Promised End. I’ll play with her some more, but she’s been underwhelming in most of the matches where I’ve cast her.

I’m only running 2x Surgicals so it’s only 74 of your 75. I have them in paper, but I’m not ready to spend $30 for one online yet, so I’m trying to come up with an alternative. I ran a Spatial Contortion in its place for the leagues, but it doesn’t seem great in the meta right now. I’m torn between: 3rd Ratchet Bomb, 2nd TKS, Forcefield, Oblivion Stone, 4th Grip, or Sylvan Library. Thoughts?

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I used to play Butcher of Truth when I started with one of your lists and was skeptical of Great Distortion as well. I'm not going back unless there's a Painter resurgence, which would be the only thing that makes me actively want a second shuffle effect. The counterspell effect on Great Distortion gives you some ways to win troublesome matchups that you don't have otherwise. I like having access to unique effects like that because they can win games that you would otherwise have lost, as opposed to winning more quickly in a game you would have eventually won anyway. I've stayed with Promised End for the same reason though I have also found it underwhelming even compared to how good it was earlier this year, particularly against blue control decks. The key feature is that Promised End can actually get cards out of the opponent's hand which no other big Eldrazi can do. It also gives you some angles to deal with TNN. I could see replacing it with a Butcher of Truth, but that substitution will cost you games against StP decks and I suspect it would be a net detriment.

If you're limited to the options you listed I would go with the Library unless a) there is a lot of combo in which case do a second TKS, or b) there are a lot of hate artifacts/enchantments in which case do a fourth Grip. Honestly, though, I would rather have another piece of graveyard interaction so I would go with Relic of Progenitus for the redraw and to mess with Snapcasters and Loams.

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Originally Posted by k_omega

I used to play Butcher of Truth when I started with one of your lists and was skeptical of Great Distortion as well. I'm not going back unless there's a Painter resurgence, which would be the only thing that makes me actively want a second shuffle effect. The counterspell effect on Great Distortion gives you some ways to win troublesome matchups that you don't have otherwise. I like having access to unique effects like that because they can win games that you would otherwise have lost, as opposed to winning more quickly in a game you would have eventually won anyway. I've stayed with Promised End for the same reason though I have also found it underwhelming even compared to how good it was earlier this year, particularly against blue control decks. The key feature is that Promised End can actually get cards out of the opponent's hand which no other big Eldrazi can do. It also gives you some angles to deal with TNN. I could see replacing it with a Butcher of Truth, but that substitution will cost you games against StP decks and I suspect it would be a net detriment.

If you're limited to the options you listed I would go with the Library unless a) there is a lot of combo in which case do a second TKS, or b) there are a lot of hate artifacts/enchantments in which case do a fourth Grip. Honestly, though, I would rather have another piece of graveyard interaction so I would go with Relic of Progenitus for the redraw and to mess with Snapcasters and Loams.

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It’s funny, I actually noticed that exact point about Promised End while playing against Burn earlier today. Used her with Chasm in play to Smash to Smithereens their own Ensnaring Bridge, find out that they had a Price in hand, which told me I needed to Eye into TKS before letting Chasm die. The best part was that they alt-casted both Fireblasts that they were holding in response to Emrakul’s, targeting me despite Chasm, just so that I couldn’t make them burn themselves. So you could say I’m warming up to her…

What do you think about a maindeck TKS? I find myself boarding it in for so many matchups. And what would you cut from the main to make room?


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Originally Posted by TheBoozeCube

It’s funny, I actually noticed that exact point about Promised End while playing against Burn earlier today. Used her with Chasm in play to Smash to Smithereens their own Ensnaring Bridge, find out that they had a Price in hand, which told me I needed to Eye into TKS before letting Chasm die. The best part was that they alt-casted both Fireblasts that they were holding in response to Emrakul’s, targeting me despite Chasm, just so that I couldn’t make them burn themselves. So you could say I’m warming up to her…

What do you think about a maindeck TKS? I find myself boarding it in for so many matchups. And what would you cut from the main to make room?


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Main deck TKS is amazing, I currently am on 4 main deck. It not only puts a body on the field early, but the hand disruption can be very vital to the beginning of a match depending on your opponent. I would highly recommend it. Even later in the game it can still hold its value. Although stopping an early threat is fun. T1 tomb, chalice on 1. T2 temple, TKS is a great way to start the vast majority of games.

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Originally Posted by bomberman32

Main deck TKS is amazing, I currently am on 4 main deck. It not only puts a body on the field early, but the hand disruption can be very vital to the beginning of a match depending on your opponent. I would highly recommend it. Even later in the game it can still hold its value. Although stopping an early threat is fun. T1 tomb, chalice on 1. T2 temple, TKS is a great way to start the vast majority of games.

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I’m on C/g, so a lot of that doesn’t apply. I’m looking at it more as a 1-of Eye target. Especially for things like baiting/exiling a FoW to clear the way for a board wipe, swiping a Price while I’m behind a Chasm, a body I can tutor for and block with at 9, etc.


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Originally Posted by TheBoozeCube

It’s funny, I actually noticed that exact point about Promised End while playing against Burn earlier today. Used her with Chasm in play to Smash to Smithereens their own Ensnaring Bridge, find out that they had a Price in hand, which told me I needed to Eye into TKS before letting Chasm die. The best part was that they alt-casted both Fireblasts that they were holding in response to Emrakul’s, targeting me despite Chasm, just so that I couldn’t make them burn themselves. So you could say I’m warming up to her…

What do you think about a maindeck TKS? I find myself boarding it in for so many matchups. And what would you cut from the main to make room?

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Games like that are exactly why I put TKS in the sideboard and one of the many reasons I've stayed with Promised End. I view TKS as a tool for specific matchups rather than a general-purpose beater, but I could see putting one or maybe two in the main. In the Divining Top era I played G/W Titan builds and really liked having exactly 2 TKS maindeck. I would cut the From Beyond so that you're not tapping out for 4-drops too often, and because there's no reason to dilute the deck's core for TKS. I think From Beyond does a better job of addressing the deck's general weaknesses though, so I would rather keep it in the main and bring in TKS as needed.

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Originally Posted by cdnza

It's not clear to me how this is supposed to work. It seems extraordinarily optimistic to me to think you will ever be able to cast UBG spells in a deck that ideally wants to play entirely colourless-producing lands, and honestly I'm not sure I can imagine when Villainous Wealth is going to be better than just playing your own cards. If you are ever able to cast VW with a reasonable X value, you could just be casting Primeval Titan/Ugin/Emrakul/etc. It's certainly a cool and fun card but it seems awful in 12post to me.

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Yeah it seems like such a strange list, S&T -> Prime Time is a very good plan B and gives you the potential to "race" against combo decks so I have no idea why you wouldn't play it. Imo the reason to be BUG is decay/deluge and if you're playing 3 colors you can't really afford to play cards like candle, maze and actual cards that have a BUG casting cost.

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Originally Posted by k_omega

Games like that are exactly why I put TKS in the sideboard and one of the many reasons I've stayed with Promised End. I view TKS as a tool for specific matchups rather than a general-purpose beater, but I could see putting one or maybe two in the main. In the Divining Top era I played G/W Titan builds and really liked having exactly 2 TKS maindeck. I would cut the From Beyond so that you're not tapping out for 4-drops too often, and because there's no reason to dilute the deck's core for TKS. I think From Beyond does a better job of addressing the deck's general weaknesses though, so I would rather keep it in the main and bring in TKS as needed.

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I wasn’t thinking of maindeck TKS as a general beater but rather for the quasi-Thoughtseize effect. But I wouldn’t want to cut From Beyond for it. I’m really digging FB even though I haven’t had many opportunities to use it yet. I especially like that it’s a single card that gives you both a threat you can easily play through a Blood Moon and a way to generate colorless mana through one. There’s a fair bit of Blood Moon Stompy/Big Red in my local meta, so I had been running a Wastes in the board to be able to counter Fiery Confluence and Spatial Contortion their Magus. Can’t land tutor directly for From Beyond, but the added general utility seems worth it.

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Originally Posted by TheBoozeCube

I wasn’t thinking of maindeck TKS as a general beater but rather for the quasi-Thoughtseize effect. But I wouldn’t want to cut From Beyond for it. I’m really digging FB even though I haven’t had many opportunities to use it yet. I especially like that it’s a single card that gives you both a threat you can easily play through a Blood Moon and a way to generate colorless mana through one. There’s a fair bit of Blood Moon Stompy/Big Red in my local meta, so I had been running a Wastes in the board to be able to counter Fiery Confluence and Spatial Contortion their Magus. Can’t land tutor directly for From Beyond, but the added general utility seems worth it.

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I would have suggested cutting a Warping Wail since TKS is also good against combo, but I knew how much you like 4x Wails. I agree with keeping From Beyond if at all possible.

Hey everybody. I’m on today’s episode of Leaving a Legacy, talking all about C/G Post (despite the incorrect title as Eldrazi Post [emoji2955]). You can find it here: https://www.hipstersofthecoast.com/2...-eldrazi-post/


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I Just listened to the podcast on the drive into work. Really makes me wish I bought candelabras number 3 and 4 back in the day. Especiall Since it’s the version that’s putting up the best results. I really miss playing 12post...and the discussions surrounding it. I assume a GW variant is no longer viable, despite picking up a sweet new GoR Card.

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Originally Posted by maCHOOga

I Just listened to the podcast on the drive into work. Really makes me wish I bought candelabras number 3 and 4 back in the day. Especiall Since it’s the version that’s putting up the best results. I really miss playing 12post...and the discussions surrounding it. I assume a GW variant is no longer viable, despite picking up a sweet new GoR Card.

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You can at least play C/G on MTGO. It’s practically a budget deck!

I have no idea whether G/W is viable or not. I would think it has a more difficult time against Grixis Control because it’s more at the mercy of the topdeck, but it does have access to sick sideboard cards. I’d have to imagine that Leyline and RIP are particularly good at the moment.


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Originally Posted by TheBoozeCube

Hey everybody. I’m on today’s episode of Leaving a Legacy, talking all about C/G Post (despite the incorrect title as Eldrazi Post [emoji2955]). You can find it here: https://www.hipstersofthecoast.com/2...-eldrazi-post/

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That was a good podcast. Thanks for the shout-outs.

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Originally Posted by maCHOOga

I Just listened to the podcast on the drive into work. Really makes me wish I bought candelabras number 3 and 4 back in the day. Especiall Since it’s the version that’s putting up the best results. I really miss playing 12post...and the discussions surrounding it. I assume a GW variant is no longer viable, despite picking up a sweet new GoR Card.

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I got some Mirri's Guile's a few days ago to see if they could be a Top replacement for GW builds. The plan is to swap 4 Tops from an old list for 3 Guile + 1 Sylvan Library and see how it goes. StP seems good against all the Anglers and Death's Shadows.

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Originally Posted by k_omega

That was a good podcast. Thanks for the shout-outs.



I got some Mirri's Guile's a few days ago to see if they could be a Top replacement for GW builds. The plan is to swap 4 Tops from an old list for 3 Guile + 1 Sylvan Library and see how it goes. StP seems good against all the Anglers and Death's Shadows.

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I’ve tested extensively with mirri’s guile after sdt ban. It’s solid when cast t1 but it’s a bad top deck later when you need action. Ponder is strictly better at being a top “replacement.” However, 4 GW there isn’t much choice besides library/mirri. GW as in a maverick spash (gsz+toolbox)? In that case tracker can draw lots of cards + titania for cuteness;) i even tried natural order for more tutor effects instead of runing mirri...

I've been working on a Mono Blue list that I think has some potential. I'm going to dump it here if anyone is interested.

1 Academy Ruins
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Cloudpost
1 Eye of Ugin
4 Glimmerpost
6 Island
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
2 Tolaria West
4 Vesuva
4 Preordain
3 Candelabra of Tawnos
4 Expedition Map
2 Pithing Needle
2 Cyclonic Rift
2 Talisman of Dominance
4 Trinket Mage
1 Crucible of Worlds
4 Fact or Fiction
4 Force of Will
1 Mindslaver
1 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Walking Ballista
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

SIDEBOARD
3 Flusterstorm
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Dismember
1 Karakas
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
3 Karn, Scion of Urza
1 Walking Ballista

So far Preordain has actually outperformed my expectations. No Brainstorm since I'm not running fetches. Trinket Mage does a lot of work, and can even get you Ballista in addition to the variety of graveyard hate out of the board. Recurring Mindslaver is obviously a wincon, and a lot of fair decks can't beat recurred Wurmcoil either. The blue count is a bit low, but the bigger problem I've dealt with so far is not being able to refill my hand. I was looking at Prophet of Distortion and Kefnet the Mindful but I'm guessing neither is good enough.

Lastly, I'm cribbing some of your lists for my stream next Saturday. I won't link it again until the day of (you can find it on the previous page). If anyone else has any silly brews they want me to try, feel free to send them my way. Hope to see you next week! :)

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Originally Posted by Zotmaster

I've been working on a Mono Blue list that I think has some potential. I'm going to dump it here if anyone is interested.

1 Academy Ruins
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Cloudpost
1 Eye of Ugin
4 Glimmerpost
6 Island
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
2 Tolaria West
4 Vesuva
4 Preordain
3 Candelabra of Tawnos
4 Expedition Map
2 Pithing Needle
2 Cyclonic Rift
2 Talisman of Dominance
4 Trinket Mage
1 Crucible of Worlds
4 Fact or Fiction
4 Force of Will
1 Mindslaver
1 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Walking Ballista
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

SIDEBOARD
3 Flusterstorm
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Dismember
1 Karakas
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
3 Karn, Scion of Urza
1 Walking Ballista

So far Preordain has actually outperformed my expectations. No Brainstorm since I'm not running fetches. Trinket Mage does a lot of work, and can even get you Ballista in addition to the variety of graveyard hate out of the board. Recurring Mindslaver is obviously a wincon, and a lot of fair decks can't beat recurred Wurmcoil either. The blue count is a bit low, but the bigger problem I've dealt with so far is not being able to refill my hand. I was looking at Prophet of Distortion and Kefnet the Mindful but I'm guessing neither is good enough.

Lastly, I'm cribbing some of your lists for my stream next Saturday. I won't link it again until the day of (you can find it on the previous page). If anyone else has any silly brews they want me to try, feel free to send them my way. Hope to see you next week! :)

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Cool list. A few thoughts:

1) What does Oboro do here? I’m assuming it has a specific function, but I can’t figure it out.

2) What about a 1-of Steel Hellkite and Haven of the Spirit Dragon? You can recur Hellkite with either Haven or Ruins, and Haven lets you recur Ugin too, especially since you’re running Crucible already.

3) If you’re having problems filling your hand, what about either Staff of Nin, Coercive Portal, or The Immortal Sun? All are one-sided Howling Mines. Staff adds removal and a clock, Portal is cheap, and Immortal Sun buffs your Trinket Mages and turns off Jace & Lilly.

4) 4x Force of Will seems pretty ambitious, especially main.

5) What about a green splash for Ancient Stirrings with all that artifact stuff you have going on?

6) Bojuka Bog seems underwhelming in the main, since you’ve only got Map to find it and can’t use it at instant speed. Maybe maindeck Crypt instead?

7) Might be too cute, but what about Riptide Laboratory to rebuy your Trinket Mages?


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Originally Posted by TheBoozeCube

1) What does Oboro do here? I’m assuming it has a specific function, but I can’t figure it out.

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Oboro allows you to access a second blue mana even if it's your only blue source, so you can hard-cast Force, cantrip and then cast Trinket Mage, tutor with Tolaria West, and so on. While it's vulnerable to land hate, it also fights all of the same land hate to a degree.

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2) What about a 1-of Steel Hellkite and Haven of the Spirit Dragon? You can recur Hellkite with either Haven or Ruins, and Haven lets you recur Ugin too, especially since you’re running Crucible already.

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Hellkite is perfectly fine and is one of a number of cards I considered at the top of the curve. A second Wurmcoil or even a Sundering Titan would be valid as well. You could even run a 1-of Treasure Mage. Haven is probably worse since it doesn't get back nearly as many things as Academy Ruins does.

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3) If you’re having problems filling your hand, what about either Staff of Nin, Coercive Portal, or The Immortal Sun? All are one-sided Howling Mines. Staff adds removal and a clock, Portal is cheap, and Immortal Sun buffs your Trinket Mages and turns off Jace & Lilly.

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As is, everything at 6 mana and up can win the game by itself. Especially without extra rocks like Grim Monolith or Thran Dynamo to help turbo it out, Staff of Nin feels inadequate. Immortal Sun turns off Ugin and small Karn as wincons. Speaking of which, running small Karn main (who can also win a game by himself) is also an option.

There were three reasons I considered Kefnet and Prophet: they're both cheaper, they both block (albeit situationally with Kefnet), and their abilities are both repeatable. Another card I'm considering is Thirst for Knowledge, which also ups the blue count a bit.

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4) 4x Force of Will seems pretty ambitious, especially main.

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I need a bigger sample size, but so far I've been able to cast Force once when I've needed to. Running it is a nod to the fact that the deck needs early game protection since it doesn't run Crop Rotation.

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5) What about a green splash for Ancient Stirrings with all that artifact stuff you have going on?

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I wanted to make a straight mono-blue list, but more than that, it would drastically change the composition of the deck. At that point, you'd want fetches, which means you'd probably want duals, and you'd probably want Brainstorm, and you'd probably want fewer colored cards, and so on. There are some old UG lists that have run it, but those decks play differently as well.

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6) Bojuka Bog seems underwhelming in the main, since you’ve only got Map to find it and can’t use it at instant speed. Maybe maindeck Crypt instead?

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Tolaria West gets it too. It's a little weaker, but the presence of maindeck countermagic mitigates that a little bit. Tolaria West works as a nigh-uncounterable Map in addition to all the other things it does. I was thinking about moving either Crypt or Cage into the main. Not sure yet.

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7) Might be too cute, but what about Riptide Laboratory to rebuy your Trinket Mages?

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Probably is. I'd probably also want to run Glen Elendra Archmage, perhaps Venser, Shaper Savant, if not both. Even so, I'd probably rather tutor for Academy Ruins or another Locus than get it.

Not sure how Oboro lets you hardcast Force :tongue:

I have always loved that card since Kami block though. Let us know how the list does in your tests and please also join the 12post discord!