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Im now testing a build with zero piledriver and 3x tar fire and 4x gem palm and have been just destroying most of the fair decks right now. The only one playing tarmogoyf is tempo and Death and Taxes hates to see a vial on the other side of the board as much as anyone.
The removal also helps ensure lackey will connect…which is always good.
Hello everybody,
lately, while testing on Cockatrice, I've lost several times to a deck playing LoTV (or RIP) + Helm of Obedience combo. This deck also featured Sensei + Counterballance and Energy Field (plus Terminus, Mishra's Factory...), which always locked me up just right a turn before I could kill him. I tried to side in CoTV (@2 to stop Energy Field etc), Wear//Tear etc, but no proper results so far. Couldn't figure out a good strategy how to play against this kind of deck.
Have you figured out a strategy how to beat this deck? If so, I'd very much appreciate if you would share it here, thanks :-)
I believe its UW control, I really like this control and think it is the best control deck in legacy nowadays. Fortunately, very few people bring it to championship, since control is usualy bad in legacy lately. But we have a good chance if they dont find their combo pieces, usually I put some pressure on the table, but keep some fuel in hand, so if they terminus, you can rebuild fast. REB is a good SB card too, bur Wear//tear should be enough, usually a Wear//Tear at their RiP is enough to give you time to win.Quote:
Originally Posted by prateta
But there is a long time I dont face this match.
Cya.
Against Countertop, doesn't Wear//Tear lose to CB with the Top on top? Or does the split card thing make it harder to counter.Quote:
Originally Posted by max_goblin
Well, "Tear" does, but "Wear AND Tear" doesn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Potdindy
When you decide to cast both halves they fuse into one spell with CMC 3. You should target SDT and RIP in this case.
Shoot, that makes the card so much better, wow. Didn't realize that. I think that warrants dropping G spash entirely unless ppl like Tin-street hooligan.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoboLord
First, I want to thank all that have kept this board up and going, it is a great place to get info and ideas for my little green guys.
I have a Legacy tournament coming up this weekend for a Candelabra, and they are having a pre-tourny tourny tomorrow night. Should I play my normal goblins list, try some new changes, or play an entirely different list to keep those who would meta against me off of my true deck?
My normal list is:
4x Goblin Warchief
4x Goblin Matron
4x Goblin Ringleader
4x Goblin Lackey
4x Goblin Piledriver
4x Mogg War Marshal
4x Gempalm Incinerator
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1x Goblin Chieftain
4x Aether Vial
1x Tarfire
4x Plateau
4x Cavern of Souls
4 Mountain
3x Arid Mesa
3x Scalding Tarn
2x Rishadan Port
2x Wasteland
SB
4x Rest in Peace
3X Thorn of Amethyst
4x Wear/Tear
1x Goblin Sharpshooter
1x Tarfire
1x Tuktuk Scrapper
1x Stingscourger
Wow, didn't know that... this is the main the reason why I lost so many games against this deck, because he always put his Sensei back on top -> counter and there was nothing I could do about it, since I didn't know it's possible to change CMC of the card by fusing it together. Should've thought about it, I hate when I play my cards wrong. Thank you VERY much! This changes everything :-D (at least in this matchup, Wear//Tear is even better now).Quote:
Originally Posted by GoboLord
Went 4-0 again with my mono red Winstigator List.
I beat elves 2-0, delver 2-1, pox 2-0, and a white list with morphed lifelink angel 2-1
The key was the speed, 4 tarfires, 3 pyros, 2 chrome moxes, 3 instigators, 4 lackeys, 1 skirk prospector, which gave me time to play into 2 piledrivers, 3 MWM, 2 stingscourgers, 3 Gempalms, 2 warchiefs, 3 Chieftains, 4 Matrons, 4 Ringleaders, 1 Krenko, 1 SGC. 4 caverns, 4 wastelands, 11 mountains.
61 cards as 1 for luck which i know is technically incorrect!
Also SB of 4 pyroblasts/REB essential, and 4 chalices, 3 thorns, 1 tin street, 1 tinkerer, 2 boartusk Liege ( as e.plague common in my meta )
So I don't play vials or ports, and i have more success playing aggro with removal for lackey effects and ringleaders for card advantage. I would consider a sharpshooter in my SB for a boartusk if the meta was different.
This list is explosive and effective for me. It has many answers in the SB and does well against a wide field of decks.
Looks sharp to me. But i would change one thing -1thaila +1krenko mob bos he is soooooo asome and game winning!Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOnlyNahlej
Also i like pyrokenisis in the side board
You should give lighting crafter a try its funtions a a rescue for a valuble ceature
And if you champion a ringleadr to it your oppo thinks twice before removing it
Its scare the s**** out of most of my oppo.s.
Plus i like the bolt its carries for the last dammage or spot removal
And if you run out of gas bolt its self and the ring leader comes in to play.
What was your technique in the Elves match? Is your main deck pyro card Pyrokinesis? It seems like that would help.Quote:
Originally Posted by orcanmail
I'm on a similar list. But against Elves I've only gotten there via SB cards.
Another question, what are your thoughts regarding MWM in an aggressive list? I have opted to keep 4 Piledrivers.
Although hands without vial or lackey are not optimal I've come to the realization that other, sometimes slower hands can be keepable. This all may sound obvious but I've mulled myself to death with this deck, many times my mull to five will consist of ringleaderx2 a couple land and a matron. So whats my point you ask? Recently I've been keeping hands that may be a tad slower yet contain some mix of warchief and/or war marshall. Sometimes a hand with lackey or vial is sub-par to a slower more threat dense hand that can just out creature our opponents. I cant stress enough that learning to mulligan correctly with this deck is of an ut-most importance when a large portion of our deck is made up of unusually high mana costing creatures.
Ps. Does anyone else find it more gratifying beating someone with goblins compared to other decks, I love this deck.
I played RB Instigator at my local shop last night.
Just a simple report as I know GoboLord likes to have both the good and the bad for completeness.
Goblins (34)
4x Goblin Lackey
4x Warren Instigator
3x Goblin Piledriver
4x Goblin Chieftain
4x Goblin Matron
4x Goblin Ringleader
1x Krenko, Mob Boss
1x Siege-Gang Commander
1x Stingscourger
1x Tuktuk Scrapper
2x Tarfire
2x Warren Weirding
3x Gempalm Incinerator
Other (4)
4x AEther Vial
Land (22)
4x Badlands
1x Auntie's Hovel
4x Fetchland
4x Cavern of Souls
3x Mountain
4x Wasteland
2x Chrome Mox
Sideboard
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Chalice of the Void
2x Earwig Squad
3x Perish
1x Tuktuk Scrapper
1x Chrome Mox
Rd1: 2-0 vs UW Countertop Miracles.
G1: He stalled me with Ensnaring Bridge, but I had a swarm and a Matron for Tuktuk.
I didn't see many of his cards but my guess was Miracles.
Sideboarding OUT: 3x Gempalm, 2x Tarfire, 1x Warren Weirding, 1x Stingscourger;IN: 3x Therapy, 2x Earwig, 1x Tuktuk, 1x MoxG2: The game ended with all four Ringleaders swinging in for the win. I'd prowled in Earwig earlier taking both copies of Entreat and a Jace, and my hand was full of goblins in case of Terminus.
Rd2: 0-2 vs Death & Taxes
G1: mull to 5. Get owned.
G2: mull to 5. Get owned.
SB: can't remember exactly but I took out 2x Piledrivers.
Rd3: 1-2 vs Pox (mono-black LD Nether Void version)
G1: He gains complete control and I find myself with no land, no creatures, and no hand. I scoop to save time.
SB: my sideboard is terrible for this matchup. I took out most removal, bringing in 1x Tuktuk, 2x Earwig, 1x Mox, 3x Therapy.G2: Multiple Vials plus Warren Instigator, 2x Chieftain, and a massive storm of goblins result in me swinging for 18 even with Engineered Plague out.
G3: his early Cursed Scrolls with Engineered Plague, and Pithing Needles on Vial and Krenko, prevent me from establishing any board presence.
Finished: 1-2 in rounds, 3-4 in games.
SGC hasn't hit the board once in 15 games, including practice games. That means either it's not needed, or I should be Matroning for it instead of something else.
The D&T round was vs my friend. We played about 8 games on the day, of which I won just one. The other 7 were nightmare blowouts in his favor. He was able to consistently deal with my early threats, establish a superior board (usually with equipment), put Revoker on my Vial or Gempalm, and Port my lands. This matchup was a complete nightmare. Pyrokinesis and additional, cheap artifact destruction were sorely missed. I'd appreciate any tips.
I don't have any tips, but there are cards available in RB that are very effective against D&T.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sockosensei
Goblin Sharpshooter
Pyrokinesis
Electrickery
Dread of Night
The last may be too narrow/specific. Pyrokinesis is not the most optimal card in a Winstigator build, so Electrickery would be an in-between solution. Sharpshooter should do quite well too, but I personally don't like this guy.
Apart from that I would board Chrome Mox #3 (in case you didn't do that) and keep in as many spotremoval as possible. Maybe I have more to say about this MU after the weekend. I do think that it's problematic though. I actually rather want to be paired against storm-combo than against D&T (mostly because I don't like plaiyng against deck where my strategy isn't all that clear to me).
DnT is indeed a trick MU. RW is more suitable for it imo, since Wear/Tear is great, so is Rg with TSH, but you need G to destroy the artifact, which can be problematic. Tuktuk Scrapper is ok, but you have to be sure you can kill Revokers to use your Vial, and that's just another reason why I love Tarfire.
They have only 4 Spot Removal MD, and 1-2 on the SB. They don't usually kill Lackey, but rather block it. That means he stays on the board. So IF you want to keep pushing B splash, Rakdos Charm is a possibility. Destroys artifacts, which is great (crucial actually) and may work as a 'Dark Ritual' to instantly cast Krenko or Ringleader.
If you want to be more specific, there is Virtue's Ruin or Anarchy, but I'd recommend neither.
My plan agains them, with monored is to be the agressor. Try to be fast. They can't mana-denial you so easily early, specially with lots of basic Mountains, and you have cheap removal, and hopefully Mox to speed things up.
On the Rw buil I try to be more controlish. I have more removal, and the only really relevant cards are equipament and an activeMother of Runes. If you have Wear/Tear and O.ring and Tuktuk for equips/Vial/Revoker, and Tarfire/Gempalm/Whatever for Mom, eventually you'll be able to get your CA going, and roll over them.
Guess that the B splash would be more similar to the monored version. Don't really know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sockosensei
If Death and Taxes is big in your meta, just play Dread of Night (I play it as a 3-of in my ANT board nowadays). Ain't nobody got time to lose to Mother of Runes + Thalia. I suppose Engineered Plague is an option as it also deals with True-Name Nemesis. Not sure how much this deck cares about that card though, as I haven't played Goblins in forever.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoboLord
Greetings all.
First of; I registered here just for this thread, planning on restarting my own goblin legacy deck ( it's been partially assembled but lacks some key cards ).
I have a few questions;
When I first spoke to several players, they suggested a card that I seem to miss here; Fling.
It seems like a good card versus moat and other can't attack mechanics.It is however counterable and as such probably a less than adequate choice.
What I also 'miss' here, is a mention of auntie's hovel and other B/R lands ( graven cairns / blood crypt come to mind ) that might be usefull ( rakdos carnarium and other "comes into play tapped"-lands obviously aren't contenders here ).
So, hopefully some of you can help me out here :)
p.s: please ignore or forgive any misspellings, as English isn't my native language ;)
The black splash can offer several tools for the Death and Taxes matchup.
Cabal Therapy can be used to discard equipments fetched with SFM.
Dread of Night fights their white creatures.
So does Virtue's Ruin.
Warren Weirding is good against them, but so is most removal.
Rakdos Charms seems descent.
Engineered Plague could be set on several creature types, propably most often on human though.
I think the black splash can be good for fighting DnT. In fact, if you're really willing to commit to the matchup, I think it is the best splash, because of Dread of Night. Otherwise, I think it's still descent, although it's not as good at fighting equipments, but red already has a lot of artifact destruction available.
On the matchup in general. I think DnT is generally favored, and it's a pretty close matchup. They have a lot of tricks that one should learn how to play around. They are also less dependant on having a vial online. Our card advantage is superior to theirs, so we are very happy to trade 1 for 1.
I wouldn't say D&T is big in the meta--in fact, this is only the second time I've ever faced it at the local shop--so I'm not looking to dedicate sideboard slots specifically to the matchup. But I am happy to know cards that could be strong here while still being useful in other matchups, so thank you. Oh, and I did board in Chrome Mox #3 hoping for that extra touch of speed. I tried to prioritize with the Tarfires, usually on Mom, but then something else would Vial in and equip and I was soon dead.
Other questions:
Is TSH useable in Instigator builds off a single Taiga+Caverns, or is the anti-synergy with Instigator a deal killer? I sure would love to free up that 4-mana slot!
@GoboLord: you once mentioned that if you had a full set of Badlands you would cut fetches entirely. Do you still feel that way? I sure do love having ways to grab basic mountains.
Is anyone else besides GoboLord and me testing Earwig Squad? What do you think?