Either that or players haven't properly tested it. I don't think it is actually that amazing. It's fine. Nothing earth shattering
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Either that or players haven't properly tested it. I don't think it is actually that amazing. It's fine. Nothing earth shattering
Yes, I got 10th. Hurrah! Thank you all. I played 12-2-1 without any byes, and missed top 8 on tie breakers.
5-0-1 on day 2. I could have chosen a more aggressive line versus Death and Taxes and spared myself of the draw. I think that the deck is good. As for the side board Venser, I played in one trial on site and lost 0-2 to Jund Depths the first round. Some people at the tournament said that they expected a lot of it at the GP, and I didn't really think that I could win that match up. I have been shifting between Ætherling and Notion Thief in the last side board slot. Neither of them are essential, so that seemed like the natural cut for Venser. As for my worst match ups, I faced Elves on day 1, winning 2-0. I faced them again on day two, winning 2-1. I eventually also faced the dreaded Jund Depths later on day 2, winning 2-0. I used Pod to get Acidic Slime forcing him to combo in my main phase so that I could Sower of Temptation the token, winning.
I will try to compose a list of all of the match-ups shortly. I have been borderline sick all weekend, so a tournament report may take a few days.
Awesome job!Quote:
Originally Posted by Svknoe
Sick. Venser actually does seem like a fairly reasonable answer to Lage. Never thought of that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Svknoe
Svknoe congrats on the finish!
Only question is why no Exarchs? (and I personally would run Deadeye somewhere maybe over Venser)
I updated my BUG Control list based on some testing and theorycrafting, mainly adding a second Deed to the main (possibly may even go up to 3) and a Scavenging Ooze. These replaced Glen-Elendra and Top respectively.
Damia continues to be sweet, although borderline on cutting her for Deadeye or Aetherling
Exarch might be playable. I have not tried it. I seems very bad to draw it without a pod, though. I am reluctant to play too many creatures that are outright bad by themselves.
First of all @SVKnoe congratulations on the great finish. I played several versions of Nic Fit and never really liked the POD versions. But looking at your list I am getting very excited about it and will start testing with it again. How usefull was the extra Glen Elendra in the sideboard and how effective where the pilferers.
Anything you would change after such a great result?
Compared to other nic fit decks is it hard to play?
I am looking forward to you report so get well soon ;-)
The extra Glen Elendra is Very useful. Glen Elendra is good against combo and is one of out primary trumps against miracles. If you can stop the next two entreats or terminus, you are in great shape. Watch out for swords, counter, persist trigger, terminus in response. I don't know if combo is capable of dealing with a supported, active archmage. I think that the Pilferers are needed for the storm and show and tell match ups. I am looking to find a way to fit in the fourth Deathrite. It seems like a mistake to not play 4. GSZ and the fourth Explorer are the only cards of similar function that it is possible to cut. I want Explorer early, but I generally don't like drawing 2. Wood Elves is the worst card in the deck. It isn't very bad, but some good three drop could certainly replace it. It's functionality is sometimes needed, but it is still a little bit on the weak side.
Pod opens up a tremendous amount of lines of play. Almost all board states are solvable. The board often looks very bad, but it can be fixed with the correct line. Because you have so many options I think it is more difficult to play than the other Nic Fit decks. The other decks that I have played in tournaments is some Rector and mostly Scapeshift. I have tested some Punishing Fit as well.
My match ups were:
Day 1: BUG Delver, Reanimator, Miracles (loss), Jund, Elves, Death and Taxes, BUG Delver, TNN Bant (loss) and one deck I can't recall
Day 2: Death and Taxes (draw), Elves, UWR Delver, Jund Depths, Sneak and Show, Merfolk
Quote:
Originally Posted by Svknoe
Very nice, I see you beat a wide swath of decks over the weekend. How important was golgari charm for beating elves/DnT?
We've been testing out Fleshbag Marauder as a 3 drop over here and it's been decent. It's another way to kill true name nemesis and another sacrifice outlet for veteran explorer, which is pretty cool. I've also briefly tried out 4 deathrites and 3 veteran explorers because of what you said (drawing 2 is not great). It worked alright, though I only tried it for a four round tournament.
I'd love to see your Sideboard Strategy. Is there one coming by chance?Quote:
Originally Posted by Svknoe
I sided it in against those decks. I think that I got an easy 2 for 1 with with it once. Death and Taxes seems very favorable regardless. I did not draw it against Elves, and somehow won regardless. I can't imagine it not being good. Deathrite and Nettle are a little annoying. I think that it is also fine versus TNN decks. Those are generally favourable too, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by GtF
I have not tried Fleshbag Marauder. It seems interesting. I have one main concern. If it is your only creature while you have a Pod, you are not getting anywhere. I want all of my creatures to both be good with Pod and be fine without it. It is a fairly common scenario that I have a Pod, but no creatures. If I draw a creature, I will most likely win. Fleshbag Marauder is quite horrible to draw then. It may still be the best card for the slot. I'll try it out.
I have no written notes for sideboarding. So far I have figured it out match by match. I should probably write something. If I do, I will share it.
In general I sideboard out Finks and all of the bad 4+ drops versus combo. All of the combo hate comes in, with the exception of Pilferers versus reanimator. If they are not combo, I generally side in Deed and Jitte. Slime and Glen Elendra are very match up dependent, and are often sided out for one of those cards. I sometimes shave 1 Explorer, Strix or Cabal Therapy to make space. Versus miracles I side out as many explorers and therapies as I can. 7 in total is usual.
FWIW Fleshbag was extremely hit or miss when I played it. Probably not worth it unfortunately unless your meta is a bunch of Hexproof type men. Its fine vs Tempo. Dead vs Control, and kinda meh vs other normal midrange decks due to a lot of them running mana dorksQuote:
Originally Posted by Svknoe
I also played at GP Paris – first of all, Congrats to Svknoe! Very nice run against a various field.
After my Success with Punishing Fit i trained with Scapeshift (thanks “Ralf “ for a lot of input!) as my GP choice (faster rounds, top deck combo wins, Slaughter Games against Miracle – they did well as I expected). Friday at the hotel room I got crushed 1:11 against a very good ANT player and decided (after a sleepless night..) to go “Back to Basic” and enter the GP with Punishing Fit. I have more experience with this, some real sideboard cards/boarding options and an overall better Combo Matchup (in theory – see above).
Short summary – GP Day 1
R1: Bye
R2: Bye
R3: 2:0 UWR Delver (Removal over Removal)
R4: 2:0 bUrg Tempo (crushed a german “Pro” with his secret "Bitterblossom Tech")
R5: 0:2 Omnitell (lost horrible against his god hands, mulligans never got me enough action here, also lost my spirit here...see above)
R6: 1:2 Dredge (G1 more than enough rounds, but never found deed or zenith/deathrite/ooze; G2 I got some hate; G3 Mull to 5 without good cards)
R7: 0:2 Elves (against Lukas Maurer – 2nd at GP Ghent - lost die roll and G 1 because I can’t activate deed, G2 he glimpsed away with an empty board the turn before I have Golgari Charm+Punishing online)
....dead
R8: 1:1 BUG Pod (really enjoyed this kind of mirror, Pithing Needle was very good here, at G3 I wasn’t focused enough with Punishing Fire to catch the Victory before Timeout)
R9: 2:0 UW Blade (Removal over Removal)
Total: 5-3-1
So reached the 419th place, lost all combo matchups really bad, multiple mulligan and without enough hate (never found a slaughter games, only get it against BUG Fit as i boarded a one off...)
Played the same list at Sunday sideevent:
R1: 0:2 vs Team America (G1 no removal vs Tombstalker+Delver and Explorer+Witness can’t race this…G2 missed the Rakdos Charm Play before he, Wasteland his own Dual to get his Tombstalker, no Lilianas or Livegain Creatures here…)
R2: 1:1 vs UWR Delver (can’t kill him fast enough G3, but Fleshbag was good enough here)
R3: 2:1 vs UB Tezz (10 Planeswalker vs me, hard grind but got him thanks too Deed, Decay and Fire)
R4: 0:2 vs ANT (G1 no interaction, G2 hard grind, he won with 1 life thanks to burning wish)
R5: 2:0 vs Team America (Removal over Removal)
R6: 2:1 vs Team America (a little bit unconcentrated G1, but got him G2+3 as expected)
My List:
//Lands
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Swamp
2 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Taiga
1 Badlands
2 Bayou
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Phyrexian Tower
//Creatures
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Eternal Witness
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Thragtusk
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Primeval Titan
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Fleshbag Marauder
//Rest
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Punishing Fire
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Pernicious Deed
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Thoughtseize
//Sideboard
3 Slaughter Games
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Golgari Charm
2 Pithing Needle
1 Thoughtseize
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Rakdos Charm
Really like the lines of play with Punishing Fit.
Fleshbag Marauder was good enough against the meta (see a lot of tempo and sneak show).
Is there any reason for you to play a fleshbag marauder instead of the 4th liliana?
Enviado de meu Nexus 4 usando Tapatalk
As i said:Quote:
Originally Posted by Nithkar
-useable vs Show & Tell (Sneak Show + Reanimate)
-Spell Pierce proof (UWR often use a playset)
-can' t be hit from needle/revoker
-provides a 3/1 body, which can race delver, tnn, nimble, if you can sac another creature (explorer, witness, huntmaster token)
-good sac outlet for explorer (see above)
Liliana works on her own, but 3 are enough, because you didn't want to discard a spells (most of the time only punishing fire, which i reduced to 3 instead of 4). Liliana also needs double black. I never liked the playset Liliana and together with sensei you will see copies in most games.
It isn't a “liliana slot“, it works as an additional removal and is a flex slot for specific meta (lot of tempo and Sneak Show). As you can see, i cutted 1 pulse or 1 deed, which can also be played.
Too bad you didn't make day 2. I have also had a tough time beating combo with Punishing Fit.
In round three, I was playing against Miracles on your right. Your match somehow finished a while before mine, though. :P
How does the deck fair against Miracles? How would you board against it? I'm not sure Veteran Explorers are good vs Miracles :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Svknoe
Miracles is hard. If you play well, I think that they are ever so slightly favoured. For boarding, veteran explorer is the worst card. They are good at playing off the top, and explorers are out, so cabal therapy is bad as well. My goal is to sideboard out as many as possible of those cards, and side in anything in the sideboard that is playable. Glen Elendra Archmage and Pod are our best cards. What I did last time was:Quote:
Originally Posted by blindspotxxx
-4 Veteran Explorer
-3 Cabal Therapy
+2 Envelop
+1 Glen Elendra Archmage
+1 Pernicious Deed
+1 Golgari Charm
+1 Thoughtseize
+1 Venser, Shaper Savant
@Svknoe: Thanks - sadly we don't crushed the field together at day two.
I will test your list, because it seems that blue has some interesting creatures to abuse with Pod.
Your plan against Miracles sounds solid, access to double Archmage seems very good.
Questions about your Sideboard:
How good is the random Jitte (no Stoneforge, no aggressive Creatures, online at turn 3 ? if you find it) – I know (as an elves player) that Jitte can be good, IF you disrupt enough to get it online. But Nic Fit seems not disruptive enough compared to Tempo decks.
Riptide Pilferer – I know it was discussed before and also adds a “Force Pitch” but if it comes online turn 2, you can only profit turn 3 (which seems kind of meh against Combo). No one fears a 1/1 “Beater”. Sure discard every turn isn’t so bad, but you need more disruption until the little Merfolk let you profit.
Is Vendilion Clique not a better Options? Also online turn 3, let you see the hand (nice because BUG Pod also use Counters) and with 3/1 a much better Beater/Clock. At worst you can Pod into Archmage/Venser.
Why Envelope over Swan Song? Against Elves (NO, Zenith, Glimpse) or Miracle (Terminus, Entreat) we also want Pernicious Deed which also kill the 2/2 Token. Swan Song can also counter Ad Nauseum, Sneak Attack or Miracle Stuff like Moat/Humillity.
I thought about to cut -3 Riptide and -1 Jitte (Envelope can be Swan Song or Flusterstorm etc. - but it isn’t the worst Spell) and add +1 Thoughtseize, +1 Vendillion Clique, which leaves to open Slots for additional Spells (more blue Stuff/Counters/+1 Fleshbag Marauder etc.).
Sample:
+1 Clique
+1 TS (2 total)
+1 Fleshbag/Clique (but I like Fleshbag as additional Tempo/Show&Tell/Creature hate – it is the Jitte Slot)
+3 Swan Song/Flusterstorm/Spell Pierce (if Envelope is also cutted)
Benefit is more earlier Disruption to get enough turns to develop the board and get real Stuff like Pod/Archmage/Venser/Clique online.
I had been running Uktabi Orangutan in the Wood Elves slot and have never regretted the switch. I've recently been testing out Clique in that slot and have liked it as well, but 1UU has been a little rough on the mana base and can really screw up some VE choices if its in your hand. Where my head's at now is that 1 of the Riptide Pilferers can become a Clique.
I've considered Swan Song but still am running 2 Envelop, but if anything I would switch them to Negate. Swan Song isn't great in a deck like this because we cannot always ignore the token, so we're forced to expend resources to address it. All the while, the bad guy is still trying to combo-off again. Maybe I'm overreacting, but the typical play here is to get distracted and find a Strix while they filter with Ponders and Brainstorms, and then BOOM you're staring at Emrakul.Quote:
Originally Posted by MD.Ghost
Negate's extra cost hasn't been as much of an issue other than not being available on turn1, and addresses the few weaknesses of Envelop - that it misses Sneak Attack, Ad Nauseum and Brainstorms.